http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=228013

Has anyone installed one of those? Any good and reliable?

If you are trying to get "instant" hot water at every faucet read this:

http://www.askthebuilder.com/NH059_-...ing_Loop.shtml

It will require additional plumbing for either the passive or the pump
system. I don't have either but If you really want it you should try
the passive system first then install the pump if you need it.

Jack wrote:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=228013

Has anyone installed one of those? Any good and reliable?



And have you considered the downside such as extra enery cost for both
heating the water and the extra load on the A/C?

George wrote:
Jack wrote:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=228013

Has anyone installed one of those? Any good and reliable?



And have you considered the downside such as extra enery cost for both
heating the water and the extra load on the A/C?

And that is a big downside. It costs a lot more to keep the water hot
in those systems than the cost of the water you waste in a normal
system by running it until it gets hot.

Harry K

Harry K wrote:
George wrote:

Jack wrote:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=228013

Has anyone installed one of those? Any good and reliable?



And have you considered the downside such as extra enery cost for both
heating the water and the extra load on the A/C?


And that is a big downside. It costs a lot more to keep the water hot
in those systems than the cost of the water you waste in a normal
system by running it until it gets hot.

Harry K


As with most things in life, there is a tradeoff here.

Depending on the situation, up to 15,000 gallons a year of water that
would otherwise flow down the drain while you wait for the hot water to
arrive will be saved as hot water will be virtually instant on every
time. That's on the order of $60 or more per year in water/sewer costs
saved (exactly how much depends on where you live). The pump will
consume maybe $10 of that in a year. The extra utility costs in keeping
the water at a usable temp in the hot water lines during usage hours is
hard to quantify but lets say its an extra $15 a year.

All hot water lines then need to be insulated to minimize heat loss in
the lines (although here, attic temps are well over 100F in the summer,
so heat loss to the attic is minimial - all water lines are above the
ceiling here)

Yes, it is a MARGINAL benefit and has a LONG payback period. Yet in
areas that are water poor, this can have a much quicker payback, and the
comfort level in the home goes up dramatically.

Robert Gammon wrote:


As with most things in life, there is a tradeoff here.

Depending on the situation, up to 15,000 gallons a year of water that
would otherwise flow down the drain while you wait for the hot water to
arrive will be saved as hot water will be virtually instant on every
time. That's on the order of $60 or more per year in water/sewer costs
saved (exactly how much depends on where you live). The pump will
consume maybe $10 of that in a year. The extra utility costs in keeping
the water at a usable temp in the hot water lines during usage hours is
hard to quantify but lets say its an extra $15 a year.


I would imagine that would be an interesting situation. Perhaps whomever
wrote the marketing material for the pump got a little carried away?

We have a house on metered city water with two residents and our *total
consumption* is 19,000 gallons/year.


All hot water lines then need to be insulated to minimize heat loss in
the lines (although here, attic temps are well over 100F in the summer,
so heat loss to the attic is minimial - all water lines are above the
ceiling here)


Yes, it is a MARGINAL benefit and has a LONG payback period. Yet in
areas that are water poor, this can have a much quicker payback, and the
comfort level in the home goes up dramatically.

George wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote:


As with most things in life, there is a tradeoff here.

Depending on the situation, up to 15,000 gallons a year of water that
would otherwise flow down the drain while you wait for the hot water to
arrive will be saved as hot water will be virtually instant on every
time. That's on the order of $60 or more per year in water/sewer costs
saved (exactly how much depends on where you live). The pump will
consume maybe $10 of that in a year. The extra utility costs in keeping
the water at a usable temp in the hot water lines during usage hours is
hard to quantify but lets say its an extra $15 a year.


I would imagine that would be an interesting situation. Perhaps whomever
wrote the marketing material for the pump got a little carried away?

We have a house on metered city water with two residents and our *total
consumption* is 19,000 gallons/year.



WOW, Frugal with water are we!! That is less than 2000 gallons a
MONTH!!! With two people here, no outside watering of flowers, trees,
shrubs, grass, two showers a day, three to four tubs of laundry a week,
cooking and cleaning, we are usually about 5,000 gallons a month or
60,000 gallons a YEAR, triple your useage.

George wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote:


As with most things in life, there is a tradeoff here.

Depending on the situation, up to 15,000 gallons a year of water that
would otherwise flow down the drain while you wait for the hot water to
arrive will be saved as hot water will be virtually instant on every
time. That's on the order of $60 or more per year in water/sewer costs
saved (exactly how much depends on where you live). The pump will
consume maybe $10 of that in a year. The extra utility costs in keeping
the water at a usable temp in the hot water lines during usage hours is
hard to quantify but lets say its an extra $15 a year.


I would imagine that would be an interesting situation. Perhaps whomever
wrote the marketing material for the pump got a little carried away?


I suspect that they assumed

1. household of 4 people.
2 6 showers a day on average.
3 4-6 loads of clothes washing per week.
4. Two or more loads of the dishwaher per day with hot water into the
dishwasher. 5. Cold water so cold that you ALWAYS turn on the hot
water to mix with it when you run water into a sink

My cold water is about 65-70 degrees year round. To get COLD water, it
must come out of the fridge, or be over ice.

Robert Gammon wrote:

We have a house on metered city water with two residents and our *total
consumption* is 19,000 gallons/year.




WOW, Frugal with water are we!! That is less than 2000 gallons a
MONTH!!! With two people here, no outside watering of flowers, trees,
shrubs, grass, two showers a day, three to four tubs of laundry a week,
cooking and cleaning, we are usually about 5,000 gallons a month or
60,000 gallons a YEAR, triple your useage.



Our usage pattern is similar to what you described.

Are you sure your water meter isn't counting by twos (or threes) or you
aren't supplying a neighbor?

I don't remember where I read it but typical usage for a family of two
is 20,000 gallons/year.

George wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote:

We have a house on metered city water with two residents and our *total
consumption* is 19,000 gallons/year.




WOW, Frugal with water are we!! That is less than 2000 gallons a
MONTH!!! With two people here, no outside watering of flowers, trees,
shrubs, grass, two showers a day, three to four tubs of laundry a week,
cooking and cleaning, we are usually about 5,000 gallons a month or
60,000 gallons a YEAR, triple your useage.



Our usage pattern is similar to what you described.

Are you sure your water meter isn't counting by twos (or threes) or
you aren't supplying a neighbor?

I don't remember where I read it but typical usage for a family of two
is 20,000 gallons/year.

New water meter as of about 5 years ago. Oh, and we have a water
softner (about 40 gals a week) and a RO unit hooked to Fridge (about 10
gals a week)

Certain beyond a doubt that I am ALONE on this meter.

Robert Gammon wrote:

George wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote:

We have a house on metered city water with two residents and our *total
consumption* is 19,000 gallons/year.




WOW, Frugal with water are we!! That is less than 2000 gallons a
MONTH!!! With two people here, no outside watering of flowers, trees,
shrubs, grass, two showers a day, three to four tubs of laundry a week,
cooking and cleaning, we are usually about 5,000 gallons a month or
60,000 gallons a YEAR, triple your useage.



Our usage pattern is similar to what you described.

Are you sure your water meter isn't counting by twos (or threes) or
you aren't supplying a neighbor?

I don't remember where I read it but typical usage for a family of two
is 20,000 gallons/year.

New water meter as of about 5 years ago. Oh, and we have a water
softner (about 40 gals a week) and a RO unit hooked to Fridge (about 10
gals a week)

Certain beyond a doubt that I am ALONE on this meter.

Hmm, single guy, occasional lawn watering and truck washing, the usual
dishwasher and laundry use and I run around 1,200 gal / month. Except
for when a pipe broke, that was a 13,400 gal month, a 3/4" line can dump
a lot of water in a short time.

One thing that everybody seems to be missing is the new unit by Taco I
think (pump people) that is sort of a hybrid system. It's a pump that's
installed at the point of use location and connects between the hot and
cold lines under the sink/shower/whatever.

You press a button and it pumps water in from the hot supply and sends
it back down the cold line (no water wasted at all) until it senses the
hot water has arrived, then it stops. Gets you near instant hot water
with zero water waste, no standby losses and minimal electric use. I've
seen it stocked at Depot and it's an easy DIY install if you have power
nearby or can install a GFCI outlet for it.

Pete C.

And that is a big downside. It costs a lot more to keep the water hot
in those systems than the cost of the water you waste in a normal
system by running it until it gets hot.

Harry K


I don't think that is true in San Francisco where the cost of water is
reasonable but then the city tags on a criminally high sewer tax in
proportional to the water usage.

And that is a big downside. It costs a lot more to keep the water hot
in those systems than the cost of the water you waste in a normal
system by running it until it gets hot.

Harry K


As with most things in life, there is a tradeoff here.


I'm just reminded of some of the nearby towns that don't have municipal
water service (everyone has well water), and reminded of when the wells
started running out of water. Can't remember if it was last summer or the
summer before though....

S