We just bought a new house, almost the day after I finished my current
basement. Go figure. I'm a regular on rec.woodworking, but thought
this question would be better applied here.

We had a local engineer do our house inspection and he has an excellent
reputation. He outlined the best way for us to finish the basement.
First, a little background. Its poured concrete, built in '92, and
doesn't appear to have any leaks, doesn't even have a sump pump, but I
want to make sure I don't have any moldy or musty smells after I
finished.

This engineer recommend that we glue a 6 mill vapor barrier 8" below
the sill plate on the walls, keep the stud frame 2" off the walls, and
bring that barrier down and around the floor plate on the new stud
walls. Also recommend using some sort of waterproofing sealer/paint.

First, has anyone ever heard of glueing the barrier directly onto the
wall?

Second, what is the best sealer to use?

I live in PA for climate reference.

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. I'll paste the
relevent parts of the report below.

Thanks,

Chuck

For your reference we are providing the following general information
regarding finishing the basement into living space.

First seal the interior of the basement foundation walls and floor with
a good quality waterproofing material. Both surfaces should receive at
least two coats of the sealant. Deco, UGL Drylock and Glidden make
commercially available products for this purpose. There are also other
available products as well as some commercial grade products available
through certified installers that should be considered.

Following this, a 6-mill or thicker polyethylene vapor barrier should
be attached to the top of the foundation wall approximately 8 inches
below the sill plate. This polyethylene should be glued and bonded to
the foundation wall with appropriate adhesive. It is important to
obtain a good seal in this regard to prevent moisture from migrating
upward to the wood sill plate around the perimeter of the foundation.
The lower end of the vapor barrier should be placed under a new
2"x4" wood stud wall used to frame the finished basement area.
Provision should be made to ventilate this space and allow any
condensation that may develop to escape. The new stud wall should be
attached to the first floor framing and the basement floor and should
be located approximately 2" off the interior of the basement
foundation wall. The vapor barrier should be as continuous as possible
to prevent moisture from migrating into the wall or first floor framing
above. The 2" spacing from the foundation wall will allow air to
circulate in this area and reduce moisture levels. The interior frame
walls can then be insulated and finished with drywall and/or paneling
as is typically done. A dehumidifier or two should be used as needed.

"Woodchuck34" wrote in message
oups.com...
We just bought a new house, almost the day after I finished my current
basement. Go figure. I'm a regular on rec.woodworking, but thought
this question would be better applied here.

We had a local engineer do our house inspection and he has an excellent
reputation. He outlined the best way for us to finish the basement.
First, a little background. Its poured concrete, built in '92, and
doesn't appear to have any leaks, doesn't even have a sump pump, but I
want to make sure I don't have any moldy or musty smells after I
finished.

This engineer recommend that we glue a 6 mill vapor barrier 8" below
the sill plate on the walls, keep the stud frame 2" off the walls, and
bring that barrier down and around the floor plate on the new stud
walls. Also recommend using some sort of waterproofing sealer/paint.

First, has anyone ever heard of glueing the barrier directly onto the
wall?

Second, what is the best sealer to use?

I live in PA for climate reference.

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. I'll paste the
relevent parts of the report below.

Thanks,

Chuck


Before I'd do anything at all, I'd wait for a few days of rain, and use my
nose to determine if there is, in fact, any dampness in the basement. Then,
I'd spend some time outside figuring out the reasons. Sometimes, it's as
simple as re-routing downspouts away from the house, or planting ground
cover plants whose root systems slow the flow of water so the ground can
absorb it more effectively.

In article , JoeSpareBedroom says...

"Woodchuck34" wrote in message
roups.com...
We just bought a new house, almost the day after I finished my current
basement. Go figure. I'm a regular on rec.woodworking, but thought
this question would be better applied here.

We had a local engineer do our house inspection and he has an excellent
reputation. He outlined the best way for us to finish the basement.
First, a little background. Its poured concrete, built in '92, and
doesn't appear to have any leaks, doesn't even have a sump pump, but I
want to make sure I don't have any moldy or musty smells after I
finished.

This engineer recommend that we glue a 6 mill vapor barrier 8" below
the sill plate on the walls, keep the stud frame 2" off the walls, and
bring that barrier down and around the floor plate on the new stud
walls. Also recommend using some sort of waterproofing sealer/paint.

First, has anyone ever heard of glueing the barrier directly onto the
wall?

Yes, that was done to my house by a previous occupant. And the basement
partially finished with studs set back from wall, etc. as you describe. Also, a
primitive cove trench along one wall was built leading to a sump pump.

There are still water problems occasionally which I will address by major
re-grading and some drainage placed in a coupla years.

Live in the house for awhile, see what experience your neighbors have. Trying
to stop water coming in by coating the *inside* of the basement walls is really
not the best way to address it.

If you have clay soil and your neighbors report water problems, I'd even
consider doing a BDry or similar system now while you have the wall still open.

Banty (I'm in upstate NY, by the way)


--

be located approximately 2" off the interior of the basement
foundation wall. The vapor barrier should be as continuous as possible
to prevent moisture from migrating into the wall or first floor framing
above. The 2" spacing from the foundation wall will allow air to
circulate in this area and reduce moisture levels. The interior frame
walls can then be insulated and finished with drywall and/or paneling
as is typically done. A dehumidifier or two should be used as needed.

If you're circulating air behind the interior partition walls to
keep moisture levels down, what's the point of insulating them?
How are you driving air through there anyway? Vents at the base and
top of the wall?

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Woodchuck34" wrote in message
oups.com...
We just bought a new house, almost the day after I finished my current
basement. Go figure. I'm a regular on rec.woodworking, but thought
this question would be better applied here.

We had a local engineer do our house inspection and he has an excellent
reputation. He outlined the best way for us to finish the basement.
First, a little background. Its poured concrete, built in '92, and
doesn't appear to have any leaks, doesn't even have a sump pump, but I
want to make sure I don't have any moldy or musty smells after I
finished.

This engineer recommend that we glue a 6 mill vapor barrier 8" below
the sill plate on the walls, keep the stud frame 2" off the walls, and
bring that barrier down and around the floor plate on the new stud
walls. Also recommend using some sort of waterproofing sealer/paint.

First, has anyone ever heard of glueing the barrier directly onto the
wall?

Second, what is the best sealer to use?

I live in PA for climate reference.

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. I'll paste the
relevent parts of the report below.

Thanks,

Chuck


Before I'd do anything at all, I'd wait for a few days of rain, and use my
nose to determine if there is, in fact, any dampness in the basement. Then,
I'd spend some time outside figuring out the reasons. Sometimes, it's as
simple as re-routing downspouts away from the house, or planting ground
cover plants whose root systems slow the flow of water so the ground can
absorb it more effectively.

Dehumidifiers are definitely God's gift. Get the biggest one you can.

Woodchuck34 wrote:
We just bought a new house, almost the day after I finished my current
basement. Go figure. I'm a regular on rec.woodworking, but thought
this question would be better applied here.

We had a local engineer do our house inspection and he has an excellent
reputation. He outlined the best way for us to finish the basement.
First, a little background. Its poured concrete, built in '92, and
doesn't appear to have any leaks, doesn't even have a sump pump, but I
want to make sure I don't have any moldy or musty smells after I
finished.

This engineer recommend that we glue a 6 mill vapor barrier 8" below
the sill plate on the walls, keep the stud frame 2" off the walls, and
bring that barrier down and around the floor plate on the new stud
walls. Also recommend using some sort of waterproofing sealer/paint.

First, has anyone ever heard of glueing the barrier directly onto the
wall?

Second, what is the best sealer to use?

I live in PA for climate reference.

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. I'll paste the
relevent parts of the report below.

Thanks,

Chuck

For your reference we are providing the following general information
regarding finishing the basement into living space.

First seal the interior of the basement foundation walls and floor with
a good quality waterproofing material. Both surfaces should receive at
least two coats of the sealant. Deco, UGL Drylock and Glidden make
commercially available products for this purpose. There are also other
available products as well as some commercial grade products available
through certified installers that should be considered.

Following this, a 6-mill or thicker polyethylene vapor barrier should
be attached to the top of the foundation wall approximately 8 inches
below the sill plate. This polyethylene should be glued and bonded to
the foundation wall with appropriate adhesive. It is important to
obtain a good seal in this regard to prevent moisture from migrating
upward to the wood sill plate around the perimeter of the foundation.
The lower end of the vapor barrier should be placed under a new
2"x4" wood stud wall used to frame the finished basement area.
Provision should be made to ventilate this space and allow any
condensation that may develop to escape. The new stud wall should be
attached to the first floor framing and the basement floor and should
be located approximately 2" off the interior of the basement
foundation wall. The vapor barrier should be as continuous as possible
to prevent moisture from migrating into the wall or first floor framing
above. The 2" spacing from the foundation wall will allow air to
circulate in this area and reduce moisture levels. The interior frame
walls can then be insulated and finished with drywall and/or paneling
as is typically done. A dehumidifier or two should be used as needed.

I would wait a year, see if you get water. If you don't, and its not too
humid, I would just stud it out and be done with it. If you do get water
then fix it from the outside.

Inviato da X-Privat.Org - Registrazione gratuita http://www.x-privat.org/join.php

I have access to the house and have been able to work there to get
things ready. The basement is dry except for one spot where a
downspout is not moving the water away from the house properly. The
engineer also thought the basement was sound except for this issue. I
just don't want to go through all the work of finishing this, only to
get a musty smell from the walls.

Has anyone used a sealer they can recommend?

I wasn't sure about this whole vapor barrier thing. I understand the
concept of keeping the studs off the wall, but if you glue a plastic
barrier to the wall, won't mold potentially still develop in between
the plastic and the concrete?

Woodchuck34 wrote:
....
First, has anyone ever heard of glueing the barrier directly onto the
wall?

Second, what is the best sealer to use?

I live in PA for climate reference.

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. I'll paste the
relevent parts of the report below.

Thanks,

Chuck


I am going to go along with those who suggest waiting a while and see
what happens . If you really have a problem, you will want to know about it
before you do any refinishing. If you really have a problem, the only real
fix is to attack it from the outside. You can't do it from the inside.

As for the question of high humidity, I suggest that serious ventilation
should be considered first. During the winter you want additional moisture
in most homes anyway, ventilate it from the basement.



--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

You need to make sure that you have an external system for drainage outside
the basement. The inside stuff is secondary. Also if you have any sewage
pipe in the basement, put in a one way valve. Most codes require it now for
new construction. Also make sure homeowners insurance covers sewage from
external source. It is usually a cheap option.


"Woodchuck34" wrote in message
oups.com...
We just bought a new house, almost the day after I finished my current
basement. Go figure. I'm a regular on rec.woodworking, but thought
this question would be better applied here.

We had a local engineer do our house inspection and he has an excellent
reputation. He outlined the best way for us to finish the basement.
First, a little background. Its poured concrete, built in '92, and
doesn't appear to have any leaks, doesn't even have a sump pump, but I
want to make sure I don't have any moldy or musty smells after I
finished.

This engineer recommend that we glue a 6 mill vapor barrier 8" below
the sill plate on the walls, keep the stud frame 2" off the walls, and
bring that barrier down and around the floor plate on the new stud
walls. Also recommend using some sort of waterproofing sealer/paint.

First, has anyone ever heard of glueing the barrier directly onto the
wall?

Second, what is the best sealer to use?

I live in PA for climate reference.

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. I'll paste the
relevent parts of the report below.

Thanks,

Chuck

For your reference we are providing the following general information
regarding finishing the basement into living space.

First seal the interior of the basement foundation walls and floor with
a good quality waterproofing material. Both surfaces should receive at
least two coats of the sealant. Deco, UGL Drylock and Glidden make
commercially available products for this purpose. There are also other
available products as well as some commercial grade products available
through certified installers that should be considered.

Following this, a 6-mill or thicker polyethylene vapor barrier should
be attached to the top of the foundation wall approximately 8 inches
below the sill plate. This polyethylene should be glued and bonded to
the foundation wall with appropriate adhesive. It is important to
obtain a good seal in this regard to prevent moisture from migrating
upward to the wood sill plate around the perimeter of the foundation.
The lower end of the vapor barrier should be placed under a new
2"x4" wood stud wall used to frame the finished basement area.
Provision should be made to ventilate this space and allow any
condensation that may develop to escape. The new stud wall should be
attached to the first floor framing and the basement floor and should
be located approximately 2" off the interior of the basement
foundation wall. The vapor barrier should be as continuous as possible
to prevent moisture from migrating into the wall or first floor framing
above. The 2" spacing from the foundation wall will allow air to
circulate in this area and reduce moisture levels. The interior frame
walls can then be insulated and finished with drywall and/or paneling
as is typically done. A dehumidifier or two should be used as needed.

I guarantee you that if you don't put in an outside drainage system, the
basement will flood as soon as it is finished.


Studs only need to be 1/2 inch from wall.


"Woodchuck34" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have access to the house and have been able to work there to get
things ready. The basement is dry except for one spot where a
downspout is not moving the water away from the house properly. The
engineer also thought the basement was sound except for this issue. I
just don't want to go through all the work of finishing this, only to
get a musty smell from the walls.

Has anyone used a sealer they can recommend?

I wasn't sure about this whole vapor barrier thing. I understand the
concept of keeping the studs off the wall, but if you glue a plastic
barrier to the wall, won't mold potentially still develop in between
the plastic and the concrete?

On 17 May 2006 09:04:59 -0700, "Woodchuck34"
wrote:

We just bought a new house, almost the day after I finished my current
basement. Go figure. I'm a regular on rec.woodworking, but thought
this question would be better applied here.

We had a local engineer do our house inspection and he has an excellent
reputation. He outlined the best way for us to finish the basement.
First, a little background. Its poured concrete, built in '92, and
doesn't appear to have any leaks, doesn't even have a sump pump, but I
want to make sure I don't have any moldy or musty smells after I
finished.

This engineer recommend that we glue a 6 mill vapor barrier 8" below
the sill plate on the walls, keep the stud frame 2" off the walls, and
bring that barrier down and around the floor plate on the new stud
walls. Also recommend using some sort of waterproofing sealer/paint.

First, has anyone ever heard of glueing the barrier directly onto the
wall?

Second, what is the best sealer to use?

I live in PA for climate reference.

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. I'll paste the
relevent parts of the report below.

Thanks,

Chuck

For your reference we are providing the following general information
regarding finishing the basement into living space.

First seal the interior of the basement foundation walls and floor with
a good quality waterproofing material. Both surfaces should receive at
least two coats of the sealant. Deco, UGL Drylock and Glidden make
commercially available products for this purpose. There are also other
available products as well as some commercial grade products available
through certified installers that should be considered.

Following this, a 6-mill or thicker polyethylene vapor barrier should
be attached to the top of the foundation wall approximately 8 inches
below the sill plate. This polyethylene should be glued and bonded to
the foundation wall with appropriate adhesive. It is important to
obtain a good seal in this regard to prevent moisture from migrating
upward to the wood sill plate around the perimeter of the foundation.
The lower end of the vapor barrier should be placed under a new
2"x4" wood stud wall used to frame the finished basement area.
Provision should be made to ventilate this space and allow any
condensation that may develop to escape. The new stud wall should be
attached to the first floor framing and the basement floor and should
be located approximately 2" off the interior of the basement
foundation wall. The vapor barrier should be as continuous as possible
to prevent moisture from migrating into the wall or first floor framing
above. The 2" spacing from the foundation wall will allow air to
circulate in this area and reduce moisture levels. The interior frame
walls can then be insulated and finished with drywall and/or paneling
as is typically done. A dehumidifier or two should be used as needed.

If you actually have water coming through, you need to fix that from
the outside; whatever is required.

If you just have water vapor diffusing through the wall, then the
interior dampproofing can be very effective. I've had excellent
results with the oil based Drylock. It smells horrible when you are
applying it, but it does work well. The latex formula isn't nearly as
effective.

Here's what I've done and it's worked well for me. After living
through a rainy season to make sure there are no actual water leaks
through the wall, I caulk the seam between the walls and slab with
polyurethane caulk. Then I applied the oil-based drylock to the
walls. Two coats, with a brush. You really can't roll the stuff on
effectively, although you can roll it on and then brush it in. It has
to fill all the pores in the block to be effective. Let it dry for a
week or so, until the odor is completely gone.

Then I glue two inch foam insulation board to the wall, using the
proper foam compatible construction adhesive. You need the solid cell
foam that doesn't absorb water, and the type with borate treament to
eliminate any chance of mold or insects is best. All the foam seams
are taped with the type of long-lived tape used for house-wrap or
equivilent. The object here is to form a very good vapor barrier so
warm moist air from the inside doesn't reach the cold wall and
condense. Tape the foam to the floor as well.

Then I build a 2 by wall 2" or so out from foam. It doesn't need to
be insulated because of the foam, which makes it much easier for
running utilities, etc.

This is not a cheap project, the drylock and foam are pricey. But it
really works well, as long as you don't have any seepage anywhere
through the wall before you start.

As always, clear all this with your building department. You may get
stuck providing a means of secondary egress before they let you finish
the walls at all.

YMMV. Good luck with your basement.

Paul

b dry did my basement wall for 1300.00 .they put in a trench and sump
pump. i reccomend them.lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

Having lived thru the nightmare

Regrade outside install downspout drains well away from home and drain
preferably to open air and if not a dry well system with overflow
protection, make sure gutters are good, gutter helmet type save tons of
hassles. helps keep gutters downspouts and drains clear

then just to make certain install interior drain system to a sump,
preferably draining by gravity well away from home. Covering walls with
plastic can be done but with a interior french drain its not necessary,
just drylock the walls, add extra mold preventer to the drylock.

this is the ONLY WAY to be sure one day your nice room wouldnt be
ruined.someday. its near impossible to properly install a interior
french drain system into a finished basement. better to do now....

get tested for radon since its going to be a living area, and if theres
even a remote chance of it being used as a bedroom add ingress egress
windows.

you may wonder about the dry basement belt and suspenders approach. all
it takes is a single abnormal rain to ruin a nice room. all
preventable.

you could instead add a exterior french drain but be certain its BELOW
the level of the footer.

theres nothing worse than doing a room twice

I don't know anything about such a system, but what is not mentioned is
of fair concern. Climate is one thing, local conditions and slope of
property another. As for the system you describe, I would want the
engineer to define the requirements for ventillating your wall system -
how much air movement required, what equipment and what will that cost
to operate. With what you describe it seems almost overkill for the
walls and not much about the floor when the 100 year rains come. I
would want to think about a sump pump for a finished basement, and water
damage doesn't necessarilly come from the outside. What about a broken
pipe?

The mention of moisture migrating upward to the sill plate puzzled me;
concrete is never totally dry as I understand, so how wet could the sill
plate get unless flooded?

Exterior drainiage is a major consideration in wet basements, so review
of grade, soil and downspouts in order? Any discussion of waterproofing
outside of basement wall, or has that been done?

Like everyone else said -- address your outside issues first -- that's where
you'll get the most bang for the buck.

I used Drylock, oil based, 2 coats, when my basement was less than a year
old.

I also sealed the floor with a good quality floor sealant.

Next, I would suggest then waiting a year or two to wait for the cracks to
appear in the basement wall.

As you house ages you'll get a few hairline cracks in the basement walls. I
filled all of those cracks with Drylock concrete calk and applied 2 coats
over the cracks and 1 additional coat over the entire basement. [the larger
cracks I also filled with an epoxy sealant.]

I run a high capacity dehumidifier [energyStar 70 pint] in the basement and
another in my crawl space [EnergyStar 40 pint]. The basement is now quite
comfy.

useful links:

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?...vement_sealing

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/425.html

http://www.advancedenergy.org/buildi.../crawl_spaces/

http://www.les.com/pdf/BldgTechOpt.pdf

http://www.buildingscience.com/resources/homeowner.htm



"Woodchuck34" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have access to the house and have been able to work there to get
things ready. The basement is dry except for one spot where a
downspout is not moving the water away from the house properly. The
engineer also thought the basement was sound except for this issue. I
just don't want to go through all the work of finishing this, only to
get a musty smell from the walls.

Has anyone used a sealer they can recommend?

I wasn't sure about this whole vapor barrier thing. I understand the
concept of keeping the studs off the wall, but if you glue a plastic
barrier to the wall, won't mold potentially still develop in between
the plastic and the concrete?

yeah painting the walls looks nice, but i have seen drylock bubble into
a 12 inch diameter bubble filled with water, it broke.

so it does seal but it isnt perfect

Fix possible water problems in advance any buy fllod insurance just
in case, if your basement room costs a lot

Do not dig below your footers if you want your house to stay up in one
piece.


wrote in message
ups.com...
Having lived thru the nightmare

Regrade outside install downspout drains well away from home and drain
preferably to open air and if not a dry well system with overflow
protection, make sure gutters are good, gutter helmet type save tons of
hassles. helps keep gutters downspouts and drains clear

then just to make certain install interior drain system to a sump,
preferably draining by gravity well away from home. Covering walls with
plastic can be done but with a interior french drain its not necessary,
just drylock the walls, add extra mold preventer to the drylock.

this is the ONLY WAY to be sure one day your nice room wouldnt be
ruined.someday. its near impossible to properly install a interior
french drain system into a finished basement. better to do now....

get tested for radon since its going to be a living area, and if theres
even a remote chance of it being used as a bedroom add ingress egress
windows.

you may wonder about the dry basement belt and suspenders approach. all
it takes is a single abnormal rain to ruin a nice room. all
preventable.

you could instead add a exterior french drain but be certain its BELOW
the level of the footer.

theres nothing worse than doing a room twice