Hi,

I have a section of conduit that runs to the pool pump, its rigid,
underground, and originally bent upwards to go to the electrical box.

The original installation was done 20 years ago by someone interested
in saving a few bucks. The conduit surfaces next to the concrete pump
pad, to a box there. Both the original equipment and the electrical box
was out in the open, where the rain and sprinklers reduced it to a mass
of rusted crap.

I have replaced the pool pump, made a nice enclosure for it, now I want
to replace the electrical box, but I want to rerun it so that it comes
up through the concrete pad and is sheltered from the rain and
sprinklers, just as the new pump is.

The problem is, the original conduit, which is thick wall threaded pipe,
was bent to 90 degrees. I need to cut it, then reroute it one foot to
emerge inside the pad/shelter. The existing wire is long enough to allow
this. But there does not seem to be an easy way to run the wire, in a
new conduit, attached to the old, and around a 90 degree bend.

A "conduit U joint" would do it, but I don't see that sold locally. The
local hardware store is telling me to replace ALL of it, which is
insane. 20 feet or so runs underground into the house, and another 10
feet or so dives under the concrete patio and 5 feet down to the pool
light.

Do I need to find a conduit U joint? (or just use a standard water
U joint), and is this ok to bury? I just need this last foot of conduit,
not to rip up and replace the entire system.

Thanks,

Scott Moore

the total number of bends in a single run of conduit cannot exceed
360 degrees. This may not directly apply as you do not plan on
repulling the wire. If the wire has been buried in rigid for 20
years with visible signs of corrosion, I suspect that the wire is
frozen in the pipe and you will not be able to pull it. You have
the additional problem of cutting the existing rigid pipe without
harming the wire or insulation inside - tricky. I don't know
exactly what you mean by a u joint - there is no such fitting in
electric or plumbing work AFAIK. A u joint is used on a car's
driveshaft. If you mean back to back 90's to create a letter U,
you have already used up 180 degrees of the 360 total. It won't
pull. A plumber would be very unlikely to consider such a joint
either.


______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"scott moore" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have a section of conduit that runs to the pool pump, its
rigid,
underground, and originally bent upwards to go to the electrical
box.

The original installation was done 20 years ago by someone
interested
in saving a few bucks. The conduit surfaces next to the concrete
pump
pad, to a box there. Both the original equipment and the
electrical box
was out in the open, where the rain and sprinklers reduced it to
a mass
of rusted crap.

I have replaced the pool pump, made a nice enclosure for it, now
I want
to replace the electrical box, but I want to rerun it so that it
comes
up through the concrete pad and is sheltered from the rain and
sprinklers, just as the new pump is.

The problem is, the original conduit, which is thick wall
threaded pipe,
was bent to 90 degrees. I need to cut it, then reroute it one
foot to
emerge inside the pad/shelter. The existing wire is long enough
to allow
this. But there does not seem to be an easy way to run the wire,
in a
new conduit, attached to the old, and around a 90 degree bend.

A "conduit U joint" would do it, but I don't see that sold
locally. The
local hardware store is telling me to replace ALL of it, which
is
insane. 20 feet or so runs underground into the house, and
another 10
feet or so dives under the concrete patio and 5 feet down to the
pool
light.

Do I need to find a conduit U joint? (or just use a standard
water
U joint), and is this ok to bury? I just need this last foot of
conduit,
not to rip up and replace the entire system.

Thanks,

Scott Moore

scott moore wrote:
Hi,

I have a section of conduit that runs to the pool pump, its rigid,
underground, and originally bent upwards to go to the electrical box.

The original installation was done 20 years ago by someone interested
in saving a few bucks. The conduit surfaces next to the concrete pump
pad, to a box there. Both the original equipment and the electrical box
was out in the open, where the rain and sprinklers reduced it to a mass
of rusted crap.

I have replaced the pool pump, made a nice enclosure for it, now I want
to replace the electrical box, but I want to rerun it so that it comes
up through the concrete pad and is sheltered from the rain and
sprinklers, just as the new pump is.

The problem is, the original conduit, which is thick wall threaded pipe,
was bent to 90 degrees. I need to cut it, then reroute it one foot to
emerge inside the pad/shelter. The existing wire is long enough to allow
this. But there does not seem to be an easy way to run the wire, in a
new conduit, attached to the old, and around a 90 degree bend.

A "conduit U joint" would do it, but I don't see that sold locally. The
local hardware store is telling me to replace ALL of it, which is
insane. 20 feet or so runs underground into the house, and another 10
feet or so dives under the concrete patio and 5 feet down to the pool
light.

Do I need to find a conduit U joint? (or just use a standard water
U joint), and is this ok to bury? I just need this last foot of conduit,
not to rip up and replace the entire system.

Thanks,

Scott Moore


By plumbing U joint you mean union. The electrical equivalent is an
Erickson coupling IIRC - also 3 piece but somewhat different
construction. It should be pretty easy to get but not likely from the
Borgs; Grainger?. Repost if it is not easy to google. Another
possibility is a rigid threadless compression fitting. Like an EMT
raintight coupling on steroids. You should cut off the threads to use it
(it us used on a cut end). PVC, as gfretwell, may be easier; presume
there is a ground wire.

bud--

Bud-- wrote:
scott moore wrote:
Hi,

I have a section of conduit that runs to the pool pump, its rigid,
underground, and originally bent upwards to go to the electrical box.

The original installation was done 20 years ago by someone interested
in saving a few bucks. The conduit surfaces next to the concrete pump
pad, to a box there. Both the original equipment and the electrical box
was out in the open, where the rain and sprinklers reduced it to a mass
of rusted crap.

I have replaced the pool pump, made a nice enclosure for it, now I want
to replace the electrical box, but I want to rerun it so that it comes
up through the concrete pad and is sheltered from the rain and
sprinklers, just as the new pump is.

The problem is, the original conduit, which is thick wall threaded pipe,
was bent to 90 degrees. I need to cut it, then reroute it one foot to
emerge inside the pad/shelter. The existing wire is long enough to allow
this. But there does not seem to be an easy way to run the wire, in a
new conduit, attached to the old, and around a 90 degree bend.

A "conduit U joint" would do it, but I don't see that sold locally. The
local hardware store is telling me to replace ALL of it, which is
insane. 20 feet or so runs underground into the house, and another 10
feet or so dives under the concrete patio and 5 feet down to the pool
light.

Do I need to find a conduit U joint? (or just use a standard water
U joint), and is this ok to bury? I just need this last foot of conduit,
not to rip up and replace the entire system.

Thanks,

Scott Moore


By plumbing U joint you mean union. The electrical equivalent is an
Erickson coupling IIRC - also 3 piece but somewhat different
construction. It should be pretty easy to get but not likely from the
Borgs; Grainger?. Repost if it is not easy to google. Another
possibility is a rigid threadless compression fitting. Like an EMT
raintight coupling on steroids. You should cut off the threads to use it
(it us used on a cut end). PVC, as gfretwell, may be easier; presume
there is a ground wire.

bud--

U as in union, sorry. I am trying to get a 20 foot run to turn up 90
so that it will surface. You can't just twist on a 90 elbow with the
wire inside it, so I need to pull the old wire through, attach to
the old tubing, which I have already cut and re threaded. I carefully
scored around the outside of the tubing, then cracked the joint without
damage to the wire, then dressed the ends with a file, then rethreaded
with a manual ratchet threader.

I was able to find at least one reference to a union for rigid conduit,
thank you.

I think one poster here thought I was going to pull all new wire
through. Interesting, but the present wire is fine. Its actually
all ok underground, just the outside box was rusted out.

The PVC transition would be nice. The gentleman at the hardware
store told me that was against code. Still, it does not really solve
the problem at hand unless you are talking about that moisture tight
flex conduit. Are you talking about going to glued couplings? If so,
that would be great (since no twisting is involved). There is indeed
a ground wire. As long as nobody (no city inspector) is going to get
bent out of shape about transitioning from metal to PVC underground,
that sounds good.

Thanks for the good thoughts. I must admit I was fairly depressed today
about this, I have done a lot of work on the pump, filter, heater and
the enclosure. I thought the wiring part was not a big deal. I have done
lots of indoor wiring with romex, and thin wall indoor conduit, which
does not have these kinds of issues.

Scott Moore

scott moore wrote:

By plumbing U joint you mean union. The electrical equivalent is an
Erickson coupling IIRC - also 3 piece but somewhat different
construction. It should be pretty easy to get but not likely from the
Borgs; Grainger?. Repost if it is not easy to google. Another
possibility is a rigid threadless compression fitting. Like an EMT
raintight coupling on steroids. You should cut off the threads to use
it (it us used on a cut end). PVC, as gfretwell, may be easier;
presume there is a ground wire.

bud--


U as in union, sorry. I am trying to get a 20 foot run to turn up 90
so that it will surface. You can't just twist on a 90 elbow with the
wire inside it, so I need to pull the old wire through, attach to
the old tubing, which I have already cut and re threaded. I carefully
scored around the outside of the tubing, then cracked the joint without
damage to the wire, then dressed the ends with a file, then rethreaded
with a manual ratchet threader.


Sounds like good prep but what a PITA.

I was able to find at least one reference to a union for rigid conduit,
thank you.

I think one poster here thought I was going to pull all new wire
through. Interesting, but the present wire is fine. Its actually
all ok underground, just the outside box was rusted out.

The PVC transition would be nice. The gentleman at the hardware
store told me that was against code. Still, it does not really solve
the problem at hand unless you are talking about that moisture tight
flex conduit. Are you talking about going to glued couplings? If so,
that would be great (since no twisting is involved). There is indeed
a ground wire. As long as nobody (no city inspector) is going to get
bent out of shape about transitioning from metal to PVC underground,
that sounds good.


PVC would be a female adapter on the threaded end then the usual rigid
PVC, factory 90 at the upturn, male adapter at the end, all glued
connections. All as moisture tight as the original rigid. The PVC idea
came from gfretwell who is an inspector (maybe retired) - much better
than the hardware guy. If it is going to be inspected ask your
inspector. Should be no problem with a ground wire.

Thanks for the good thoughts. I must admit I was fairly depressed today
about this, I have done a lot of work on the pump, filter, heater and
the enclosure. I thought the wiring part was not a big deal. I have done
lots of indoor wiring with romex, and thin wall indoor conduit, which
does not have these kinds of issues.


The really hard part was getting a threaded end on the pipe without
mangling the wires. Whats left should be easy.

bud--

wrote:
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 01:48:36 -0700, scott moore
wrote:


U as in union, sorry. I am trying to get a 20 foot run to turn up 90
so that it will surface. You can't just twist on a 90 elbow with the
wire inside it,

Use an LB conduit body. Attach the "B" back side to the horizontal run
of pipe with the cover off. Then you can rotate the fitting without
twisting the wire that is poking out the access hole. When you get it
threaded down tight and pointed up you can continue with your new
rigid metal conduit. Shove the wire up the new pipe and install the
cover.

http://www.foxelectricsupply.com/con...ProductNo=LB50

Great! I think we are there. Thank you for the excellent help.

Bud-- wrote:



U as in union, sorry. I am trying to get a 20 foot run to turn up 90
so that it will surface. You can't just twist on a 90 elbow with the
wire inside it, so I need to pull the old wire through, attach to
the old tubing, which I have already cut and re threaded. I carefully
scored around the outside of the tubing, then cracked the joint without
damage to the wire, then dressed the ends with a file, then rethreaded
with a manual ratchet threader.


Sounds like good prep but what a PITA.


Actually not bad. I used a 4" one of those side grinder tools with a
metal cutoff blade. The first one I did it a tiny fraction at a time
until I saw a small hole in the line. On the second one, I realized that
all you need to do is cut enough to significantly weaken the pipe, all
around it, then twist it. It snaps the pipe, then you fatigue the metal
until it comes off completely, then the grinder can be also used to help
finish the end.

I never used a manual threader before, but that was fun. I still can't
understand why that tool sells for $700, but oh, well. It rented for
$11, so I can't complain.

Thanks again.