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Replacing underground conduit section
Hi,
I have a section of conduit that runs to the pool pump, its rigid, underground, and originally bent upwards to go to the electrical box. The original installation was done 20 years ago by someone interested in saving a few bucks. The conduit surfaces next to the concrete pump pad, to a box there. Both the original equipment and the electrical box was out in the open, where the rain and sprinklers reduced it to a mass of rusted crap. I have replaced the pool pump, made a nice enclosure for it, now I want to replace the electrical box, but I want to rerun it so that it comes up through the concrete pad and is sheltered from the rain and sprinklers, just as the new pump is. The problem is, the original conduit, which is thick wall threaded pipe, was bent to 90 degrees. I need to cut it, then reroute it one foot to emerge inside the pad/shelter. The existing wire is long enough to allow this. But there does not seem to be an easy way to run the wire, in a new conduit, attached to the old, and around a 90 degree bend. A "conduit U joint" would do it, but I don't see that sold locally. The local hardware store is telling me to replace ALL of it, which is insane. 20 feet or so runs underground into the house, and another 10 feet or so dives under the concrete patio and 5 feet down to the pool light. Do I need to find a conduit U joint? (or just use a standard water U joint), and is this ok to bury? I just need this last foot of conduit, not to rip up and replace the entire system. Thanks, Scott Moore |
Replacing underground conduit section
scott moore wrote:
Hi, I have a section of conduit that runs to the pool pump, its rigid, underground, and originally bent upwards to go to the electrical box. The original installation was done 20 years ago by someone interested in saving a few bucks. The conduit surfaces next to the concrete pump pad, to a box there. Both the original equipment and the electrical box was out in the open, where the rain and sprinklers reduced it to a mass of rusted crap. I have replaced the pool pump, made a nice enclosure for it, now I want to replace the electrical box, but I want to rerun it so that it comes up through the concrete pad and is sheltered from the rain and sprinklers, just as the new pump is. The problem is, the original conduit, which is thick wall threaded pipe, was bent to 90 degrees. I need to cut it, then reroute it one foot to emerge inside the pad/shelter. The existing wire is long enough to allow this. But there does not seem to be an easy way to run the wire, in a new conduit, attached to the old, and around a 90 degree bend. A "conduit U joint" would do it, but I don't see that sold locally. The local hardware store is telling me to replace ALL of it, which is insane. 20 feet or so runs underground into the house, and another 10 feet or so dives under the concrete patio and 5 feet down to the pool light. Do I need to find a conduit U joint? (or just use a standard water U joint), and is this ok to bury? I just need this last foot of conduit, not to rip up and replace the entire system. Thanks, Scott Moore By plumbing U joint you mean union. The electrical equivalent is an Erickson coupling IIRC - also 3 piece but somewhat different construction. It should be pretty easy to get but not likely from the Borgs; Grainger?. Repost if it is not easy to google. Another possibility is a rigid threadless compression fitting. Like an EMT raintight coupling on steroids. You should cut off the threads to use it (it us used on a cut end). PVC, as gfretwell, may be easier; presume there is a ground wire. bud-- |
Replacing underground conduit section
Bud-- wrote:
scott moore wrote: Hi, I have a section of conduit that runs to the pool pump, its rigid, underground, and originally bent upwards to go to the electrical box. The original installation was done 20 years ago by someone interested in saving a few bucks. The conduit surfaces next to the concrete pump pad, to a box there. Both the original equipment and the electrical box was out in the open, where the rain and sprinklers reduced it to a mass of rusted crap. I have replaced the pool pump, made a nice enclosure for it, now I want to replace the electrical box, but I want to rerun it so that it comes up through the concrete pad and is sheltered from the rain and sprinklers, just as the new pump is. The problem is, the original conduit, which is thick wall threaded pipe, was bent to 90 degrees. I need to cut it, then reroute it one foot to emerge inside the pad/shelter. The existing wire is long enough to allow this. But there does not seem to be an easy way to run the wire, in a new conduit, attached to the old, and around a 90 degree bend. A "conduit U joint" would do it, but I don't see that sold locally. The local hardware store is telling me to replace ALL of it, which is insane. 20 feet or so runs underground into the house, and another 10 feet or so dives under the concrete patio and 5 feet down to the pool light. Do I need to find a conduit U joint? (or just use a standard water U joint), and is this ok to bury? I just need this last foot of conduit, not to rip up and replace the entire system. Thanks, Scott Moore By plumbing U joint you mean union. The electrical equivalent is an Erickson coupling IIRC - also 3 piece but somewhat different construction. It should be pretty easy to get but not likely from the Borgs; Grainger?. Repost if it is not easy to google. Another possibility is a rigid threadless compression fitting. Like an EMT raintight coupling on steroids. You should cut off the threads to use it (it us used on a cut end). PVC, as gfretwell, may be easier; presume there is a ground wire. bud-- U as in union, sorry. I am trying to get a 20 foot run to turn up 90 so that it will surface. You can't just twist on a 90 elbow with the wire inside it, so I need to pull the old wire through, attach to the old tubing, which I have already cut and re threaded. I carefully scored around the outside of the tubing, then cracked the joint without damage to the wire, then dressed the ends with a file, then rethreaded with a manual ratchet threader. I was able to find at least one reference to a union for rigid conduit, thank you. I think one poster here thought I was going to pull all new wire through. Interesting, but the present wire is fine. Its actually all ok underground, just the outside box was rusted out. The PVC transition would be nice. The gentleman at the hardware store told me that was against code. Still, it does not really solve the problem at hand unless you are talking about that moisture tight flex conduit. Are you talking about going to glued couplings? If so, that would be great (since no twisting is involved). There is indeed a ground wire. As long as nobody (no city inspector) is going to get bent out of shape about transitioning from metal to PVC underground, that sounds good. Thanks for the good thoughts. I must admit I was fairly depressed today about this, I have done a lot of work on the pump, filter, heater and the enclosure. I thought the wiring part was not a big deal. I have done lots of indoor wiring with romex, and thin wall indoor conduit, which does not have these kinds of issues. Scott Moore |
Replacing underground conduit section
scott moore wrote:
By plumbing U joint you mean union. The electrical equivalent is an Erickson coupling IIRC - also 3 piece but somewhat different construction. It should be pretty easy to get but not likely from the Borgs; Grainger?. Repost if it is not easy to google. Another possibility is a rigid threadless compression fitting. Like an EMT raintight coupling on steroids. You should cut off the threads to use it (it us used on a cut end). PVC, as gfretwell, may be easier; presume there is a ground wire. bud-- U as in union, sorry. I am trying to get a 20 foot run to turn up 90 so that it will surface. You can't just twist on a 90 elbow with the wire inside it, so I need to pull the old wire through, attach to the old tubing, which I have already cut and re threaded. I carefully scored around the outside of the tubing, then cracked the joint without damage to the wire, then dressed the ends with a file, then rethreaded with a manual ratchet threader. Sounds like good prep but what a PITA. I was able to find at least one reference to a union for rigid conduit, thank you. I think one poster here thought I was going to pull all new wire through. Interesting, but the present wire is fine. Its actually all ok underground, just the outside box was rusted out. The PVC transition would be nice. The gentleman at the hardware store told me that was against code. Still, it does not really solve the problem at hand unless you are talking about that moisture tight flex conduit. Are you talking about going to glued couplings? If so, that would be great (since no twisting is involved). There is indeed a ground wire. As long as nobody (no city inspector) is going to get bent out of shape about transitioning from metal to PVC underground, that sounds good. PVC would be a female adapter on the threaded end then the usual rigid PVC, factory 90 at the upturn, male adapter at the end, all glued connections. All as moisture tight as the original rigid. The PVC idea came from gfretwell who is an inspector (maybe retired) - much better than the hardware guy. If it is going to be inspected ask your inspector. Should be no problem with a ground wire. Thanks for the good thoughts. I must admit I was fairly depressed today about this, I have done a lot of work on the pump, filter, heater and the enclosure. I thought the wiring part was not a big deal. I have done lots of indoor wiring with romex, and thin wall indoor conduit, which does not have these kinds of issues. The really hard part was getting a threaded end on the pipe without mangling the wires. Whats left should be easy. bud-- |
Replacing underground conduit section
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 01:48:36 -0700, scott moore wrote: U as in union, sorry. I am trying to get a 20 foot run to turn up 90 so that it will surface. You can't just twist on a 90 elbow with the wire inside it, Use an LB conduit body. Attach the "B" back side to the horizontal run of pipe with the cover off. Then you can rotate the fitting without twisting the wire that is poking out the access hole. When you get it threaded down tight and pointed up you can continue with your new rigid metal conduit. Shove the wire up the new pipe and install the cover. http://www.foxelectricsupply.com/con...ProductNo=LB50 Great! I think we are there. Thank you for the excellent help. |
Replacing underground conduit section
Bud-- wrote:
U as in union, sorry. I am trying to get a 20 foot run to turn up 90 so that it will surface. You can't just twist on a 90 elbow with the wire inside it, so I need to pull the old wire through, attach to the old tubing, which I have already cut and re threaded. I carefully scored around the outside of the tubing, then cracked the joint without damage to the wire, then dressed the ends with a file, then rethreaded with a manual ratchet threader. Sounds like good prep but what a PITA. Actually not bad. I used a 4" one of those side grinder tools with a metal cutoff blade. The first one I did it a tiny fraction at a time until I saw a small hole in the line. On the second one, I realized that all you need to do is cut enough to significantly weaken the pipe, all around it, then twist it. It snaps the pipe, then you fatigue the metal until it comes off completely, then the grinder can be also used to help finish the end. I never used a manual threader before, but that was fun. I still can't understand why that tool sells for $700, but oh, well. It rented for $11, so I can't complain. Thanks again. |
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