I have an old Singer furnace, model GL1406, which I'm told is over 30 years
old (I've owned the house for 23 years). Except for two recent minor
electrical problems which cut off power to the blower motor, the unit has
been working fine. I have been told, however, that the blower bearings are
not in great shape and I should get a new furnace and it would be a lot more
efficient. Our gas bills, in NYC, have been very high lately, but is it
worth $4500 for a new Carrier 80% efficient furnace + $800 for a "by-pass
humidifier" to gain that efficiency? Prices include installation and
readapting ductwork, plumbing and electric. Which other brands should I
consider?

Paul Isaacs wrote:
I have an old Singer furnace, model GL1406, which I'm told is over 30 years
old (I've owned the house for 23 years). Except for two recent minor
electrical problems which cut off power to the blower motor, the unit has
been working fine. I have been told, however, that the blower bearings are
not in great shape and I should get a new furnace and it would be a lot more
efficient. Our gas bills, in NYC, have been very high lately, but is it
worth $4500 for a new Carrier 80% efficient furnace + $800 for a "by-pass
humidifier" to gain that efficiency? Prices include installation and
readapting ductwork, plumbing and electric. Which other brands should I
consider?


I'b be more concerned with the contractor. I'd get some more estimates
and also strongly consider getting a 90%+ furnace. With energy prices
likely to climb even higher, I think the incremental cost is already
justified. I don't know what kind of re-adapting is required to put
in the new unit, where it's located, etc. But the tip off that
something is wrong here is that this guy wants $800 for a bypass
humidifier that's being installed at the same time as a new furnace?
You can get a top of the line Aprilaire 700 (which I highly recommend
as opposed to the bypass type) for $225 retail and installation,
especially at the same time as a furnace is not very difficult. IMO,
$800 is a rip off.

BTW, does that $4500 include air conditioning? I sure hope so!

Get bids 4500 may or may not be high, but getting an 80 % in your
location is foolish with future gas prices trends. Look at 94.5%
efficient units, you dont mention your gas heat cost.

This is Turtle.

Yes it is time for a new one because of furture gas prices.

I would concider a 90% afue or better.

$4500 + $800 for the humidity control may be too much as the group says
but what is too much for your area. Get you a second bid to just check
to see what too much is. i don'
t know the prices in your area and this $4500 might be normal for i
don't know.

The price of a job is only about 1/2 of the job but the other 1/2 is
the professional that will do a good job. So be more looking at what
company does the job than the price of it.

TURTLE

I can not imagine why anyone in any east coast location would want a
humidifier, ever. It's already too humid here year round.

we when you heat air the humidity level drops a lot, higher humidity
appears warmer so you can run a lower temperature and save energy

wrote:
we when you heat air the humidity level drops a lot, higher humidity
appears warmer so you can run a lower temperature and save energy


Yeah, can't believe he really lives on the east coast. It's only
really humid here July/August. And humidifier, as you pointed out, is
useful in winter, when without one, with it cold outside, the inside
humidity can get very low. Maybe he likes getting static shocks?

wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
we when you heat air the humidity level drops a lot, higher
humidity
appears warmer so you can run a lower temperature and save
energy


Yeah, can't believe he really lives on the east coast. It's
only
really humid here July/August. And humidifier, as you pointed
out, is
useful in winter, when without one, with it cold outside, the
inside
humidity can get very low. Maybe he likes getting static
shocks?


Or maybe he lives on the East Coast of FLorida.

First, the price sounds high. I'm in western NYS, and my boss gets
about two grand for a 80% furnace, and not much more for the
humidifier.

Like folks say, the humidifier doesn't add much work when done at the
same time. And the 90% furnace is an excellent idea.

I live in NY state. When it's winter, and there is snow on the ground,
there is a definite need for humidity in houses. And in summer, there
is a definite need for dehumidifying.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

wrote in message
oups.com...
I can not imagine why anyone in any east coast location would want a
humidifier, ever. It's already too humid here year round.

Paul Isaacs wrote:
I have an old Singer furnace, model GL1406, which I'm told is over 30
years old (I've owned the house for 23 years). Except for two recent
minor electrical problems which cut off power to the blower motor,
the unit has been working fine. I have been told, however, that the
blower bearings are not in great shape and I should get a new furnace
and it would be a lot more efficient. Our gas bills, in NYC, have
been very high lately, but is it worth $4500 for a new Carrier 80%
efficient furnace + $800 for a "by-pass humidifier" to gain that
efficiency? Prices include installation and readapting ductwork,
plumbing and electric. Which other brands should I consider?

I am with the rest. The price sounds too high, get more estimates and
do look for a more efficient furnace 80% is low by today's standards. I
would not go below 90%

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Joseph Meehan wrote:

Paul Isaacs wrote:

I have an old Singer furnace, model GL1406, which I'm told is over 30
years old (I've owned the house for 23 years). Except for two recent
minor electrical problems which cut off power to the blower motor,
the unit has been working fine. I have been told, however, that the
blower bearings are not in great shape and I should get a new furnace
and it would be a lot more efficient. Our gas bills, in NYC, have
been very high lately, but is it worth $4500 for a new Carrier 80%
efficient furnace + $800 for a "by-pass humidifier" to gain that
efficiency? Prices include installation and readapting ductwork,
plumbing and electric. Which other brands should I consider?


I am with the rest. The price sounds too high, get more estimates and
do look for a more efficient furnace 80% is low by today's standards. I
would not go below 90%

Hmmm,
No rebate from government when you do this kind of furnace upgrade?????????

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:35:55 GMT, "Paul Isaacs"
wrote:

I have an old Singer furnace, model GL1406, which I'm told is over 30 years
old (I've owned the house for 23 years). Except for two recent minor
electrical problems which cut off power to the blower motor, the unit has
been working fine. I have been told, however, that the blower bearings are
not in great shape and I should get a new furnace and it would be a lot more
efficient. Our gas bills, in NYC, have been very high lately, but is it
worth $4500 for a new Carrier 80% efficient furnace + $800 for a "by-pass
humidifier" to gain that efficiency? Prices include installation and
readapting ductwork, plumbing and electric. Which other brands should I
consider?



Your furnace works fine. The only critical factor to merit a furnace
replacement is if the heat exchanger is cracked and lets in toxic
combusted air into the house air circulation. Only then is it
mandatory and more economical to replace the furnace than to replace
the heat exchanger.

My Inter City gas furnace is 30 years old and looks as new as the day
it was installed. I had been coughing last season whenever my furnace
fired up. I asked the gas company for a FREE furnace inspection.
Your gas company should have a similar service. The technician gave
it a OK but said that the heat exchanger was already getting old.
Call for another inspection in the future if I suspect anything. He
also noted that I had put the fan in backwards. It will work but
won't blow that efficiently. Its easy to take out the fan and turn it
around to rotate the correct direction.

I spent $350 to get the furnace ducts cleaned, the only time in 30
years, and my coughing fits stopped.

25 years ago I swapped the 1/3 HP furnace blower for a 1/2 HP one from
my table saw. (I upgraded the table saw to 1 HP.) That motor has
been humming without trouble up to today. When I did the swapping I
also took out the squirrel cage blower fan to clean it. Reassembled
the stuff and it worked fine. After about a year's running the
furnace had an annoying thunk everytime the fan started or stopped.
So I tightened the fan belt, oiled the bearings and it will work fine.

This went on for 4 years until the thunks were rather disturbing and I
decided to take the fan out to clean it as well as check the
mechanism. The noise must be related to the fan as that was the only
moving part. The motor was fine. I found the bronze sleeve bearings
ovalled and the fan shaft worn and gouged quite deeply. I had
overtightened the fan belt. The tension wore into the bronze
bearings. Adding lube oil retained the metal filings to create an
abrasive slurry that gouged into the steel fan shaft.

The bearings are available from any appliance repair supplies shop.
They are meant to run without lubrication. Frankly the heat in the fan
chamber would distill off the light oil faction and leave a gummy
residue that is no good for lubrication. My 1/2 HP motor would have
overcome any frictional resistance without trouble where a 1/3 HP
motor might have overload burn out. The shaft is just be a 3/4 inch
diameter steel rod. The repairs were quite simple and can be managed
by anyone who is not all thumbs.

My advice for you is to get your gas company to give your furance an
inspection. He does not do repairs and has the obligation to give a
professional opinion on the safety aspects of your furnace. He also
has the obligation to report any serious furnace safety problems.
Besides gassing yourself your house can catch fire and burn down the
neighborhood in the process.

Take apart the blower fan assembly anyway and do a thorough clean-up
of that chamber. Obviously you do this only in the warmer months when
you no longer need the furnace running. You will be amazed at the
gunk and dust coats that had accumulated. Vacuum first. For stubborn
oilsoaked dust use varsol to wipe them off. A wet cloth and maybe some
soap should remove the rest. Then leave the chamber as clean bare
metal. Any oil or other coating will just attract dust which will be
baked onto the chamber walls. Much of the respiratory problems during
winter likely arise from the dust and gunk buildup lurking inside trhe
furnace.

The fan motor bearings are meant to run dry. My fan motor has been
running for more than a decade now without trouble. I check and clean
the fan chamber every three years or so. Do not add lube oil (ref.
abrasive slurry above). Set the hinged motor such that the standoff
screw will just hold the motor against the stop. The fan belt tension
should be from the weight of the motor, not by tightening the
standoff screw.

PaPaPeng wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:35:55 GMT, "Paul Isaacs"
wrote:


I have an old Singer furnace, model GL1406, which I'm told is over 30 years
old (I've owned the house for 23 years). Except for two recent minor
electrical problems which cut off power to the blower motor, the unit has
been working fine. I have been told, however, that the blower bearings are
not in great shape and I should get a new furnace and it would be a lot more
efficient. Our gas bills, in NYC, have been very high lately, but is it
worth $4500 for a new Carrier 80% efficient furnace + $800 for a "by-pass
humidifier" to gain that efficiency? Prices include installation and
readapting ductwork, plumbing and electric. Which other brands should I
consider?




Your furnace works fine. The only critical factor to merit a furnace
replacement is if the heat exchanger is cracked and lets in toxic
combusted air into the house air circulation. Only then is it
mandatory and more economical to replace the furnace than to replace
the heat exchanger.

My Inter City gas furnace is 30 years old and looks as new as the day
it was installed. I had been coughing last season whenever my furnace
fired up. I asked the gas company for a FREE furnace inspection.
Your gas company should have a similar service. The technician gave
it a OK but said that the heat exchanger was already getting old.
Call for another inspection in the future if I suspect anything. He
also noted that I had put the fan in backwards. It will work but
won't blow that efficiently. Its easy to take out the fan and turn it
around to rotate the correct direction.

I spent $350 to get the furnace ducts cleaned, the only time in 30
years, and my coughing fits stopped.

25 years ago I swapped the 1/3 HP furnace blower for a 1/2 HP one from
my table saw. (I upgraded the table saw to 1 HP.) That motor has
been humming without trouble up to today. When I did the swapping I
also took out the squirrel cage blower fan to clean it. Reassembled
the stuff and it worked fine. After about a year's running the
furnace had an annoying thunk everytime the fan started or stopped.
So I tightened the fan belt, oiled the bearings and it will work fine.

This went on for 4 years until the thunks were rather disturbing and I
decided to take the fan out to clean it as well as check the
mechanism. The noise must be related to the fan as that was the only
moving part. The motor was fine. I found the bronze sleeve bearings
ovalled and the fan shaft worn and gouged quite deeply. I had
overtightened the fan belt. The tension wore into the bronze
bearings. Adding lube oil retained the metal filings to create an
abrasive slurry that gouged into the steel fan shaft.

The bearings are available from any appliance repair supplies shop.
They are meant to run without lubrication. Frankly the heat in the fan
chamber would distill off the light oil faction and leave a gummy
residue that is no good for lubrication. My 1/2 HP motor would have
overcome any frictional resistance without trouble where a 1/3 HP
motor might have overload burn out. The shaft is just be a 3/4 inch
diameter steel rod. The repairs were quite simple and can be managed
by anyone who is not all thumbs.

My advice for you is to get your gas company to give your furance an
inspection. He does not do repairs and has the obligation to give a
professional opinion on the safety aspects of your furnace. He also
has the obligation to report any serious furnace safety problems.
Besides gassing yourself your house can catch fire and burn down the
neighborhood in the process.

Take apart the blower fan assembly anyway and do a thorough clean-up
of that chamber. Obviously you do this only in the warmer months when
you no longer need the furnace running. You will be amazed at the
gunk and dust coats that had accumulated. Vacuum first. For stubborn
oilsoaked dust use varsol to wipe them off. A wet cloth and maybe some
soap should remove the rest. Then leave the chamber as clean bare
metal. Any oil or other coating will just attract dust which will be
baked onto the chamber walls. Much of the respiratory problems during
winter likely arise from the dust and gunk buildup lurking inside trhe
furnace.

The fan motor bearings are meant to run dry. My fan motor has been
running for more than a decade now without trouble. I check and clean
the fan chamber every three years or so. Do not add lube oil (ref.
abrasive slurry above). Set the hinged motor such that the standoff
screw will just hold the motor against the stop. The fan belt tension
should be from the weight of the motor, not by tightening the
standoff screw.
Hmmm,
Your old furnace may be working OK but it is of old technology with LOW
efficiency! Would you drive a car of '60s? Gas guzzling, polluter?