I've been thinking about adding a small recirculation line to reduce
the waiting time for hot (warm?) water at the kitchen sink. The other
option I've thought of would be to wrap the pipe with heat wire. Since
I have an electric water heater I don't suppose there is a difference
efficiency-wise. Has anyone played with this problem? Thanks.

insulate the lines no matter what you do.

the heat tape isnt efficent, its just designed to keep the pipes from
freezing not heat the water.

the pump system is best, a close second would be a small point of use
water heater for just the kitchen. fed from the regular hot water tank

"Dave" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've been thinking about adding a small recirculation line to reduce
the waiting time for hot (warm?) water at the kitchen sink. The other
option I've thought of would be to wrap the pipe with heat wire. Since
I have an electric water heater I don't suppose there is a difference
efficiency-wise. Has anyone played with this problem? Thanks.


How much energy does a recirculation pump system waste.
I am more interested in the heat loss in the pipes rather then the
electricity to run the pump.

Granted that it depends on how long and how well insulated is the pipe.
Some of the heat is not lost, it goes back in the house.

I am just trying to assess cost of operation versus cost of wasting water.

Can the pump be installed relatively easily in a built house?

Thanks
Mauro

MG wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've been thinking about adding a small recirculation line to reduce
the waiting time for hot (warm?) water at the kitchen sink. The other
option I've thought of would be to wrap the pipe with heat wire. Since
I have an electric water heater I don't suppose there is a difference
efficiency-wise. Has anyone played with this problem? Thanks.


How much energy does a recirculation pump system waste.
I am more interested in the heat loss in the pipes rather then the
electricity to run the pump.

Granted that it depends on how long and how well insulated is the pipe.
Some of the heat is not lost, it goes back in the house.

I am just trying to assess cost of operation versus cost of wasting water.

Can the pump be installed relatively easily in a built house?

Thanks
Mauro


There are pumps that are relatively easy to install. There are several
types available. Some are simply thermostat controlled, they keep the
water circulated so it's always hot. Of course, these use the most
energy, mostly in heat loss. Some may have timers so you can set the
periods when you want the water to be hot.

The other main type is on-demand. A push button is located at the
sink. You push it and that starts the pump running, which runs until
the water gets hot. Some have wireless remotes available, so you can
start it from your bedroom, or use the remote in a second bathroom,
that is served by the same pipe run.

Both types pump the water from the hot side back into the cold, so that
no water is lost.

Dave wrote:
I've been thinking about adding a small recirculation line to reduce
the waiting time for hot (warm?) water at the kitchen sink. The other
option I've thought of would be to wrap the pipe with heat wire. Since
I have an electric water heater I don't suppose there is a difference
efficiency-wise. Has anyone played with this problem? Thanks.

I will make one additional suggestion. Using a smaller pipe means you
waste less water each time you wait for it to get hot. It also means you
usually want less time. You can't feed multiple outlets if more than one
might be on at the same time, but it is a thought.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

wrote:

There are pumps that are relatively easy to install. There are several
types available. Some are simply thermostat controlled, they keep the
water circulated so it's always hot. Of course, these use the most
energy, mostly in heat loss. Some may have timers so you can set the
periods when you want the water to be hot.

The other main type is on-demand. A push button is located at the
sink. You push it and that starts the pump running, which runs until
the water gets hot. Some have wireless remotes available, so you can
start it from your bedroom, or use the remote in a second bathroom,
that is served by the same pipe run.

Both types pump the water from the hot side back into the cold, so that
no water is lost.

Maybe heat tape or heat wire would be too expensive to consider. I
wonder how many watts of heat are lost per foot of insulated water pipe
at a lukewarm temperature?

I added a pumpless recirculation line from the bathroom back to a nipple
on the water heater leading to the drain valve. I insulated the supply
side, and left the return line uninsulated, and let gravity do the work.
It works very well and to me the only energy cost is some heat in the
house during the few months we run the air conditioner (during the
winter, its like a radiator), and there is no water loss. I didn't use
a pump because of the energy cost, and I don't particularly want tepid
water when I turn on the cold.

I think a lot depends on the nature of your house. I have an old frame
house with an attic, two floors, and a basement, so access was easy; if
I had a house built on a slab, the recirculation loop would not work.

Dave wrote:
I've been thinking about adding a small recirculation line to reduce
the waiting time for hot (warm?) water at the kitchen sink. The other
option I've thought of would be to wrap the pipe with heat wire. Since
I have an electric water heater I don't suppose there is a difference
efficiency-wise. Has anyone played with this problem? Thanks.

Dave wrote:
I've been thinking about adding a small recirculation line to reduce
the waiting time for hot (warm?) water at the kitchen sink. The other
option I've thought of would be to wrap the pipe with heat wire. Since
I have an electric water heater I don't suppose there is a difference
efficiency-wise. Has anyone played with this problem? Thanks.


Either will increase your energy use.

My father draws the hot water to brush his teeth when he gets up in the
morning. By the time he is done brushing his teeth, the water is warm.
Then he takes his shower. Just one way to do it.

Stretch

in winter heat loss helps warn your home, so its not really lost

in winter heat loss helps warn your home, so its not really lost

in winter heat loss helps warn your home, so its not really lost

Instead of wondering, why not go look at some heat tape and see how
much it uses? My guess, 100 watts to wrap 3 to 5 feet. 24 hours a
day, 7 days a week. I've seen it used outdoors under a porch where it
was obviously there to prevent the pipe from bursting. But indoors?

Yes, in the winter it would not be lost because it would be expensive
because it is electric, but it *would* supplement the heating, but in
the summer it would work *against* the cooling.

I don't think that pipe tape will help.. It's designed to keep
the pipe WARM, not hot, so if the person at the tap wants
hot water, they're still going to run the entire pipe down the drain.

Goedjn wrote:

Instead of wondering, why not go look at some heat tape and see how
much it uses? My guess, 100 watts to wrap 3 to 5 feet. 24 hours a
day, 7 days a week. I've seen it used outdoors under a porch where it
was obviously there to prevent the pipe from bursting. But indoors?

Yes, in the winter it would not be lost because it would be expensive
because it is electric, but it *would* supplement the heating, but in
the summer it would work *against* the cooling.

I don't think that pipe tape will help.. It's designed to keep
the pipe WARM, not hot, so if the person at the tap wants
hot water, they're still going to run the entire pipe down the drain.

I remember using a freeze-proofed basement faucet that would produce
warm water so I know this is possible, however it probably isn't true
if the tape or wire is installed properly with a thermostat controller.
I do like the idea of not needing a circulating system.

On 1 Mar 2006 10:54:01 -0800, "Dave" wrote:

Goedjn wrote:

Instead of wondering, why not go look at some heat tape and see how
much it uses? My guess, 100 watts to wrap 3 to 5 feet. 24 hours a
day, 7 days a week. I've seen it used outdoors under a porch where it
was obviously there to prevent the pipe from bursting. But indoors?

Yes, in the winter it would not be lost because it would be expensive
because it is electric, but it *would* supplement the heating, but in
the summer it would work *against* the cooling.

I don't think that pipe tape will help.. It's designed to keep
the pipe WARM, not hot, so if the person at the tap wants
hot water, they're still going to run the entire pipe down the drain.

I remember using a freeze-proofed basement faucet that would produce
warm water so I know this is possible, however it probably isn't true
if the tape or wire is installed properly with a thermostat controller.
I do like the idea of not needing a circulating system.

Move the heater closer to the point-of use, and/or
hook up the circulator so that it runs off a switch,
and just drive it for 30 seconds before using any
hot water.