Ordinary light switch controlling a few fixtures. I'd like to keep these
lights from being turned off during business hours. After hours it can
follow the position of the switch. What are my options? I could get a
miniature digital timer switch but those generally have a manual override
switch. Maybe there is a version without one and settings hidden from
casual users but I doubt there is one where there is a manual control that
is only active when the timer is off. So here are some thoughts.

· Mount a timer or timer switch elsewhere and parallel it with existing
toggle. As long as timer is on the lights stay on. Requires adding wires
to conduit and new conduit & box at timer location.

· Shove a low voltage relay in the back of the box to parallel with
existing toggle. Power relay with LV supply plugged into simple wall timer
or from other equipment that is always on when business is open.

· Replace SPST toggle with SPDT. Lights wired to pole. Existing power to
one throw, other throw is fed from a switch at an inaccessible location,
timer, or simply a circuit that is live when the business is open.
Requires only one new wire to switch but possibly other conduit or wire
work.

Steve Kraus wrote:
Ordinary light switch controlling a few fixtures. I'd like to keep
these lights from being turned off during business hours. After
hours it can follow the position of the switch. What are my options?
I could get a miniature digital timer switch but those generally have
a manual override switch. Maybe there is a version without one and
settings hidden from casual users but I doubt there is one where
there is a manual control that is only active when the timer is off.
So here are some thoughts.

· Mount a timer or timer switch elsewhere and parallel it with
existing toggle. As long as timer is on the lights stay on.
Requires adding wires to conduit and new conduit & box at timer
location.

· Shove a low voltage relay in the back of the box to parallel with
existing toggle. Power relay with LV supply plugged into simple wall
timer or from other equipment that is always on when business is open.

· Replace SPST toggle with SPDT. Lights wired to pole. Existing
power to one throw, other throw is fed from a switch at an
inaccessible location, timer, or simply a circuit that is live when
the business is open. Requires only one new wire to switch but
possibly other conduit or wire work.

I think you have covered most if not all the possibilities. I will add
one idea as a part of one of your solutions. You can get one of those
thermostat control locking covers. Also you could replace the existing work
box with a larger one or add one right next to it.

You might want to look at www.smrthome.com for some additional ideas.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Steve Kraus" wrote in message
ink.net...
Ordinary light switch controlling a few fixtures. I'd like to keep these
lights from being turned off during business hours. After hours it can
follow the position of the switch. What are my options? I could get a
miniature digital timer switch but those generally have a manual override
switch. Maybe there is a version without one and settings hidden from
casual users but I doubt there is one where there is a manual control that
is only active when the timer is off. So here are some thoughts.

· Mount a timer or timer switch elsewhere and parallel it with existing
toggle. As long as timer is on the lights stay on. Requires adding wires
to conduit and new conduit & box at timer location.

· Shove a low voltage relay in the back of the box to parallel with
existing toggle. Power relay with LV supply plugged into simple wall
timer
or from other equipment that is always on when business is open.

· Replace SPST toggle with SPDT. Lights wired to pole. Existing power to
one throw, other throw is fed from a switch at an inaccessible location,
timer, or simply a circuit that is live when the business is open.
Requires only one new wire to switch but possibly other conduit or wire
work.

Keyed switch would be easier in my opinion. Manual on manual off simple and
cheap compared with your proposal.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:18:45 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Steve Kraus wrote:
Ordinary light switch controlling a few fixtures. I'd like to keep
these lights from being turned off during business hours. After
hours it can follow the position of the switch. What are my options?
I could get a miniature digital timer switch but those generally have
a manual override switch. Maybe there is a version without one and
settings hidden from casual users but I doubt there is one where
there is a manual control that is only active when the timer is off.
So here are some thoughts.

· Mount a timer or timer switch elsewhere and parallel it with
existing toggle. As long as timer is on the lights stay on.
Requires adding wires to conduit and new conduit & box at timer
location.

· Shove a low voltage relay in the back of the box to parallel with
existing toggle. Power relay with LV supply plugged into simple wall
timer or from other equipment that is always on when business is open.

· Replace SPST toggle with SPDT. Lights wired to pole. Existing
power to one throw, other throw is fed from a switch at an
inaccessible location, timer, or simply a circuit that is live when
the business is open. Requires only one new wire to switch but
possibly other conduit or wire work.

I think you have covered most if not all the possibilities. I will add
one idea as a part of one of your solutions. You can get one of those
thermostat control locking covers. Also you could replace the existing work
box with a larger one or add one right next to it.


Just get a switch with a lock-out.

Keyed switch would be easier in my opinion. Manual on manual off
simple and cheap compared with your proposal.

Yes. But doesn't allow for unrestricted control outside of the keep-on-
during-business-hours period.

"Steve Kraus" wrote in message
k.net...
Keyed switch would be easier in my opinion. Manual on manual off
simple and cheap compared with your proposal.

Yes. But doesn't allow for unrestricted control outside of the keep-on-
during-business-hours period.

You're just itching for an excuse to put in a high-tech toy, aren't you? :^)

Most people would use a sign, or one of those switch-guard flip-open cover
things. Is it customers or employees who you want to keep from messing with
it? I'd make a joke out of it- a shadow box about an inch and a half deep
around the switch, with a sliding or hinged clear plastic lid, and some
joke warning message on the lid. Maybe a toy padlock you put on in the
morning as the coffee is perking, and take off on your way out the door at
night. (Or like the other guy said, one of those thermostat box things.) I
would NOT try for any home-made high-tech solution, especially if this is a
store or other space the public passes through. It WILL fail at some point,
and you will either be dead in the water, or have people stumbling in the
dark.

I'm sure a real electric supply house (not a big-box) will have all sorts of
multi-function switches and timers, but it may be hard finding one to fit a
single box- it'll probably stick out some. A floodlight timer with an
override button comes to mind. 'On" during a set interval, 'Off' otherwise,
but also has a 'test' setting for the guy that changes the bulbs. If you
have employees or general public in the space, talk to your insurance agent
before you install any home-made (aka non-UL) electrical devices.

aem sends....

X10 is a solution that will work here. You can replace the existing
std or 3way switches with X10 ones. The switches can still be operated
normally, but also controlled via an X10 signal on the AC line. There
is an X10 mini controller available that looks like a digital clock
that you plug in anywhere in the building. You can use it to control
switches (4 max I think) and tell them when to go on or off. There is
also an interface to connect to a PC, so that can be used for control
too, as well as motion sensors, etc. Check out smarthome.com. There
are also vendors on Ebay.

wrote in message

On second thought, Never mind! I guess I needed a second cup of coffee
before I woke up. X10 can do many things, but it won't keep someone
from manually turning off the light switch during business hours.


I have on X-10 switch and it has a slide lock on it. While it does not
prevent it from being turned off as anyone can just move the slide, it does
stop you from just tapping the switch absentmindedly.

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 02:50:38 GMT, Steve Kraus
wrote:

Keyed switch would be easier in my opinion. Manual on manual off
simple and cheap compared with your proposal.

Yes. But doesn't allow for unrestricted control outside of the keep-on-
during-business-hours period.

Leave the key in the switch when you go home for the night.
Or give a key to each employee.

Put in a locking and non-locking switch to OR the power
to the light. Either of these two arrangements
ought to work:

www.goedjn.com/sketch/hide.gif

writes:
X10 can do many things, but it won't keep someone
from manually turning off the light switch during business hours.

sure it can...
if the light switch triggers a conditional macro...
but i digress.

--
May no harm befall you,
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+")

On 23 Feb 2006 07:57:52 -0800, wrote:


wrote:
X10 is a solution that will work here. You can replace the existing
std or 3way switches with X10 ones. The switches can still be operated
normally, but also controlled via an X10 signal on the AC line. There
is an X10 mini controller available that looks like a digital clock
that you plug in anywhere in the building. You can use it to control
switches (4 max I think) and tell them when to go on or off. There is
also an interface to connect to a PC, so that can be used for control
too, as well as motion sensors, etc. Check out smarthome.com. There
are also vendors on Ebay.


On second thought, Never mind! I guess I needed a second cup of coffee
before I woke up. X10 can do many things, but it won't keep someone
from manually turning off the light switch during business hours.

It would if you used an inline module rather than a regular switch
module.

Anyway X10 has a lot of reliability problems, and probably isn't
suitable here.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

On 23 Feb 2006 12:07:06 -0500, Philip Lewis
wrote:

writes:
X10 can do many things, but it won't keep someone
from manually turning off the light switch during business hours.

sure it can...
if the light switch triggers a conditional macro...
but i digress.

That's when the X10 switch the user can operate is not the same one
that directly controls the light. If the light is controlled by a
module at address L8, and the switch the user has access to is at C5
the macros could be set up something like:

IF C5 on OR time becomes 8:00 THEN turn L8 on

IF C5 off AND ((time8:00) OR (time17:00)) THEN turn L8 off
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

parell 2 switches one a timer in a enclosure or secure area, leave the
other available for regular use

a buddy has a office building with a long hall. he leaves just a few
lights on for security, has a timer on all the rest that goes off
during non peak hours and motion detectors to trip all lights on during
activity, they turn off after 15 minutes

cut his electric bill nicely

On 23 Feb 2006 15:47:55 -0800, "
wrote:

parell 2 switches one a timer in a enclosure or secure area, leave the
other available for regular use


A timer that is supposed to be continuously running (to keep track of
time). Will it continue to run when shorted by the manual switch?

a buddy has a office building with a long hall. he leaves just a few
lights on for security, has a timer on all the rest that goes off
during non peak hours and motion detectors to trip all lights on during
activity, they turn off after 15 minutes

cut his electric bill nicely
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin