I am changing out two adjacent light switches and came across a wiring
challenge that I'm hoping someone can help me with. Please forgive me
in advance for my lack of proper terminology...

The first switch is connected at the top screw to a black wire, and at
the bottom screw to an older wire with brown cloth insulation.

The second switch is connected at the top and the bottom to the same
type of brown-cloth insulated wires. However, at the bottom screw,
there are two wires attached to the one screw, one of which is the same
wire attached to the bottom screw of the first switch (?!).

This can't be good, right? Can I fix this on my own, or is it time to
call in an electrician?

Many thanks for your help!

Kimberly

wrote:
I am changing out two adjacent light switches and came across a wiring
challenge that I'm hoping someone can help me with. Please forgive me
in advance for my lack of proper terminology...

The first switch is connected at the top screw to a black wire, and at
the bottom screw to an older wire with brown cloth insulation.

The second switch is connected at the top and the bottom to the same
type of brown-cloth insulated wires. However, at the bottom screw,
there are two wires attached to the one screw, one of which is the same
wire attached to the bottom screw of the first switch (?!).

This can't be good, right? Can I fix this on my own, or is it time to
call in an electrician?

Many thanks for your help!

Kimberly


Switches will have the same color wire on both sides. They interrupt
the hot wire which is nowadays the black wire. The brown-cloth wire is
just an old old wire type. (maybe so old you might consider getting AFCI
breakers).

When you say 'fix', what exactly is broken? If your just changing the
switches, be very careful as the older wire and especially its
insulation can be very very brittle.

--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

If I understand you correctly, You probably have a hot connected to one
side (the bottom) both switches and then a wire from the other side (the
top) of each switch to the device it controls. This is quite normal.

Switch 1
|------/ --------- To device 1
-----|
|------/ ---------- To device 2
Switch 2


On 20 Feb 2006 18:17:38 -0800, wrote:


I am changing out two adjacent light switches and came across a wiring
challenge that I'm hoping someone can help me with. Please forgive me
in advance for my lack of proper terminology...

The first switch is connected at the top screw to a black wire, and at
the bottom screw to an older wire with brown cloth insulation.

The second switch is connected at the top and the bottom to the same
type of brown-cloth insulated wires. However, at the bottom screw,
there are two wires attached to the one screw, one of which is the same
wire attached to the bottom screw of the first switch (?!).

This can't be good, right? Can I fix this on my own, or is it time to
call in an electrician?

Many thanks for your help!

Kimberly

Thanks for your help. So it is normal for the "hot" wire on device 1 to
be coming from device 2? To clarify, it appears that I have 2 "hot"
wires connected to device 2... one from the "source" and one that
connects to device 1.

My problem is that I don't see any way that I can successfully connect
the two wires into the one bottom "screw" on device 2 as they were on
the "old" device 2. There is just not room for them to both fit under
the screw, b/c the screw will only un-screw so far. Is this making any
sense? Again, thanks for your patience.

You shouldn't put two wires under one screw. The proper way to make the
connection is to pigtail them together under a wirenut, so in your case you
would have the feed wire and the bottom wires from each switch connected
together under a wirenut


wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for your help. So it is normal for the "hot" wire on device 1 to
be coming from device 2? To clarify, it appears that I have 2 "hot"
wires connected to device 2... one from the "source" and one that
connects to device 1.

My problem is that I don't see any way that I can successfully connect
the two wires into the one bottom "screw" on device 2 as they were on
the "old" device 2. There is just not room for them to both fit under
the screw, b/c the screw will only un-screw so far. Is this making any
sense? Again, thanks for your patience.

wrote:
Thanks for your help. So it is normal for the "hot" wire on device 1 to
be coming from device 2? To clarify, it appears that I have 2 "hot"
wires connected to device 2... one from the "source" and one that
connects to device 1.


Well whatever the hot wire touches becomes hot as well. So you have one
hot wire doing to device 2 from the source. Then you have a wire going
from that screw onto device 1.

The replacement for this is like so. One hot wire comes from the
source. You attach two new black wires into a wirenut with that
'source' wire. Now you have 3 wires in this wirenut, 1 feed, 2 output.
Then each out goes to a light switch


source ---------- NUT ------- out 1
------- out 2


out 1 ------- switch 1
out 2 ------- switch 2


My problem is that I don't see any way that I can successfully connect
the two wires into the one bottom "screw" on device 2 as they were on
the "old" device 2. There is just not room for them to both fit under
the screw, b/c the screw will only un-screw so far. Is this making any
sense? Again, thanks for your patience.


Well sometimes switches will have a screw connection as well as a small
hole that you stick the wire into. If your switch has both, then you
dont have to put both wires on the screw. One wire can go into the
hole. But the above technique is probably simpler than the hole
technique if you don't know about the hole.



--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

dnoyeB wrote:
wrote:
Thanks for your help. So it is normal for the "hot" wire on device 1 to
be coming from device 2? To clarify, it appears that I have 2 "hot"
wires connected to device 2... one from the "source" and one that
connects to device 1.


Well whatever the hot wire touches becomes hot as well. So you have one
hot wire doing to device 2 from the source. Then you have a wire going
from that screw onto device 1.

The replacement for this is like so. One hot wire comes from the
source. You attach two new black wires into a wirenut with that
'source' wire. Now you have 3 wires in this wirenut, 1 feed, 2 output.
Then each out goes to a light switch


source ---------- NUT ------- out 1
------- out 2


out 1 ------- switch 1
out 2 ------- switch 2


My problem is that I don't see any way that I can successfully connect
the two wires into the one bottom "screw" on device 2 as they were on
the "old" device 2. There is just not room for them to both fit under
the screw, b/c the screw will only un-screw so far. Is this making any
sense? Again, thanks for your patience.


Well sometimes switches will have a screw connection as well as a small
hole that you stick the wire into. If your switch has both, then you
dont have to put both wires on the screw. One wire can go into the
hole. But the above technique is probably simpler than the hole
technique if you don't know about the hole.



--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

Thanks very much for your help. That makes perfect sense. Can the older
type insulated wires go into the hole? For some reason I thought they
had to be attached at the screw.

Otherwise I will just attach two new black wires as suggested.

Thank you!

wrote:
dnoyeB wrote:

wrote:

Thanks for your help. So it is normal for the "hot" wire on device 1 to
be coming from device 2? To clarify, it appears that I have 2 "hot"
wires connected to device 2... one from the "source" and one that
connects to device 1.


Well whatever the hot wire touches becomes hot as well. So you have one
hot wire doing to device 2 from the source. Then you have a wire going
from that screw onto device 1.

The replacement for this is like so. One hot wire comes from the
source. You attach two new black wires into a wirenut with that
'source' wire. Now you have 3 wires in this wirenut, 1 feed, 2 output.
Then each out goes to a light switch


source ---------- NUT ------- out 1
------- out 2


out 1 ------- switch 1
out 2 ------- switch 2



My problem is that I don't see any way that I can successfully connect
the two wires into the one bottom "screw" on device 2 as they were on
the "old" device 2. There is just not room for them to both fit under
the screw, b/c the screw will only un-screw so far. Is this making any
sense? Again, thanks for your patience.


Well sometimes switches will have a screw connection as well as a small
hole that you stick the wire into. If your switch has both, then you
dont have to put both wires on the screw. One wire can go into the
hole. But the above technique is probably simpler than the hole
technique if you don't know about the hole.



--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16


Thanks very much for your help. That makes perfect sense. Can the older
type insulated wires go into the hole? For some reason I thought they
had to be attached at the screw.

Otherwise I will just attach two new black wires as suggested.

Thank you!


I cant say if they can or not. Depends on the wire type and gauge. Id
probably put the old wire on the screw. But be gentle.

--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

On 20 Feb 2006 19:28:02 -0800, wrote:

Thanks for your help. So it is normal for the "hot" wire on device 1 to
be coming from device 2?

I think it would be better expressed that a hot wire is going to
switch 2 and from there to swtich 1. Look at Nospam's drawing and
imagine that the wire that goes off to the left joins the other wires
further down, before it gets to swtich 2, rather than between 1 and 2.
Electically, it is the same. Only physically is it any different.

To clarify, it appears that I have 2 "hot"
wires connected to device 2... one from the "source" and one that
connects to device 1.

How do you know, why does it appear that you have two hot wires to
device 2, that is switch 2. You would have to turn OFF switch 2 and
use a meter to measure the voltage at each of the wires, between it
and the metal box if it is metal, or some other neutral or ground.

If one of the wires is hot, when the switch is ON, both will be.

Does each swtich work? It turns something on and off, and doesn't do
anything it shouldn't? If yes, then the odds are very high that
there is no problem.

My problem is that I don't see any way that I can successfully connect
the two wires into the one bottom "screw" on device 2 as they were on
the "old" device 2. There is just not room for them to both fit under
the screw, b/c the screw will only un-screw so far. Is this making any
sense? Again, thanks for your patience.

This part is a problem, and RBM gives the soluton.


Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.