Well I installed a new GFCI as the very first receptical on a circuit
(added a new line cable from the panel, and the old line now becomes
the load coming out of the GFCI). My original questions and why I did
that can be found in this thread:

http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.ho...c3fffcbbffd2dc

---------------

So:

It looks like I installed the GFCI properly - resetting it works and
the light on it comes on. Everything downstream on the circuit works
(recepticals, room lights, etc) EXCEPT for a hardwired hallway light.
Turning that light on trips the GFCI. I can reset the GFCI fine after
that, but it will trip again if the light is turned back on. The only
unique things I can _see_ about that light is thats a 3-way.

Any suggestions? Probably not since thers very little information here.
Ill need to troubleshoot this more tommorow.

Thanks.

wrote in message
ups.com...


Well I installed a new GFCI as the very first receptical on a circuit
(added a new line cable from the panel, and the old line now becomes
the load coming out of the GFCI). My original questions and why I did
that can be found in this thread:


http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.ho...c3fffcbbffd2dc

---------------

So:

It looks like I installed the GFCI properly - resetting it works and
the light on it comes on. Everything downstream on the circuit works
(recepticals, room lights, etc) EXCEPT for a hardwired hallway light.
Turning that light on trips the GFCI. I can reset the GFCI fine after
that, but it will trip again if the light is turned back on. The only
unique things I can _see_ about that light is thats a 3-way.

Any suggestions? Probably not since thers very little information here.
Ill need to troubleshoot this more tommorow.

Thanks.


It could be a problem with that hallway light fixture. I would remove it
and put a temporary pigtail socket in its place and go from there. I assume
the GFCI trips when the light is activated from either switch.

It could be a problem with that hallway light fixture. I would remove it
and put a temporary pigtail socket in its place and go from there. I
assume
the GFCI trips when the light is activated from either switch.


Most likely, "someone" used the "wrong" neutral when wiring the lamp.

It's not unusual to have more than one circuit appear in a box. It the
hall way fixture picks up a neutral that doesn't pass through your GFCI as
soon as you complete the circuit the GFCI on the "hot" wire will trip.

You can chase that down or just forget about running a string off one GFCI.
The GFCIs are relatively cheap. Just put in a GFCI for each outlet you
want protected and leave the string that goes to the hall light and switch
loop "unprotected."

Yes, it trips from either switch.

When you say "some used the wrong neutral when" do you mean someone
might have used a neutral from a different circuit?

I didnt wire this light - it was here when we bought the house, so I
have no clue how its done.

If this is the case - how could I go about fixing it?

Replacing all the outlets would be expensive up here in Canada (15
bucks a shot), and there are alot of outlets, so I would like to avoid
that if possible.

Thanks

wrote in message
oups.com...
When you say "some used the wrong neutral when" do you mean someone
might have used a neutral from a different circuit?

I didnt wire this light - it was here when we bought the house, so I
have no clue how its done.

If this is the case - how could I go about fixing it?

1) I can't guarantee that's the problem.

2) It's not important to GFCI a light circuit for a ceiling fixture.

3) If you think it's important, you likely will have to open up the
ceiling fixture box and the box where the switch is. You will have to
ensure that everything is wired as it should be. If you have a multimeter,
you can check for leakage paths and ensure that the neutrals and "hots" go
exactly where you expect.


Replacing all the outlets would be expensive up here in Canada (15
bucks a shot), and there are alot of outlets, so I would like to avoid
that if possible.

Maybe so.

But the other side of the coin is that if a GFCI "pops" because of the
downstream fault and you aren't home, your kids/wife/tenant/whatever may be
at a loss as to WTF happened.

Maybe in a compromise, you should just pull the fixture and see if there is
another circuit (don't forget that a switch loop will have a white wire
connected to a black wire at the fixture.

Finding the cause of ground fault tripping can sometimes tkae a lot of time.
It may come down to how much you value you time (including the time to do
the "mental work" on how to check the wires.


Thanks

I took a quick look inside the two 3-way switches (one upstairs one
down). Just by looking at the wires I have a feeling the neutral is
from a different circuit (ie upstairs is all old cables, except the
switch has hot/neutral romex coming in).

Is there anything "wrong" with the way the person did this, if its what
you suggsted? Is it against code?

I hear you about the GFCI in the basement being a pain. I'll need to
look into this further tommorow, and decide if its worth the
effort/time to fix - otherwise I'll just put GFCI plugs in the
pertinant areas.

Thanks for your help.

wrote in message
ups.com...
I took a quick look inside the two 3-way switches (one upstairs one
down). Just by looking at the wires I have a feeling the neutral is
from a different circuit (ie upstairs is all old cables, except the
switch has hot/neutral romex coming in).

Is there anything "wrong" with the way the person did this, if its what
you suggsted? Is it against code?

It's "wrong" and it's against code.

But it isn't that big of a deal.

The problem is that the "code" saws that all the wires in a circuit are
supposed to be run together. Think of a cheap extension cord made of "zip
cord" wire. Were you to separate the wires the shock hazard would be about
the same as before but you end up with higher "stray" electro-magnetic
fields and in high current applications, metal objects that find themselves
between the two conductors might get warm. But it's to more of a safety
issue that the old style series Xmas lights from the 50s/60s or the series
street lights or series airport marker lights.

If you don't really understand the problem you will do more harm than good
in attempting to "fix" that which is only slightly broken.

Were it my house, I would likely figure out what mistake was made and see if
I can fix it. Or more accurately, I would have done that when I first moved
in and found such a problem. If I found such a "problem" today, I would
just ignore it and find something more important to fix.

your gfi has discovered an electrical problem in your home.

why your gfi trips is at:
http://www.codecheck.com/gfci_principal.htm

good general faq including some gfi stuff at:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/electrical-wiring/part1/

Usually, you put the GFCI on the wall in the bathroom, but it is not
used for general house wiring--- too sensitive. In this case, it may
have saved you future grief, by detecting a problem in the old wiring.
There may be break in the wire from a renovation, like a screw thru the
insulation..
Find the problem before it starts a fire in the wall somewhere.

JohnK

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 20:00:54 -0500, "John Gilmer"
wrote:



It could be a problem with that hallway light fixture. I would remove it
and put a temporary pigtail socket in its place and go from there. I
assume
the GFCI trips when the light is activated from either switch.


Most likely, "someone" used the "wrong" neutral when wiring the lamp.

It's not unusual to have more than one circuit appear in a box. It the
hall way fixture picks up a neutral that doesn't pass through your GFCI as
soon as you complete the circuit the GFCI on the "hot" wire will trip.

You can chase that down or just forget about running a string off one GFCI.
The GFCIs are relatively cheap. Just put in a GFCI for each outlet you
want protected and leave the string that goes to the hall light and switch
loop "unprotected."



According to some of the other posts here, there could be another way
to get it to work. You can find that other circuit and use a
double-pole GFCI breaker for both of them.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

According to some of the other posts here, there could be another way
to get it to work. You can find that other circuit and use a
double-pole GFCI breaker for both of them.

Ha, ha.

That MIGHT work IF:

1) There isn't any "neutral sharing" other places in the house.

2) You have room in the panel

3) The "other circuit" isn't used for guaranteed "high leakage"
appliances.

4) The owner doesn't get upset if two circuits go out from one
essentially harmless groud fault (a neutral to groud fault will also cause a
trip.)

Frankly, the most cost effective approach is to only put GFCI outlets where
that type of protection truly increases safety. That's where folks might
end up touching a HOT wire while another part of the body is grounded. In
older homes, this means kitchens and bathrooms and basements and outdoors.
With plastic plumbing, the kitchens and baths are relatively safe.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin