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fredinstl
 
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Default GFCI tripping w/ expresso. Use another plug ?

thanks for the answers. I will go buy a multimeter, although I am not
sure
what I should do to correct if I find it doesn't do what Autotracer
explained
below.


What are the risks of using a non-GFCI outlet (not grounded as I live
in an old house) for a few weeks ?
My in-laws are visiting soon, and I'd like to be
able to offer them decent coffee.


thanks. Fred

PS- I am reposting as, somehow, if I don't create a new thread, the msg
won't show up as new.

AutoTracer wrote:
Your expresso machine must have a metal body else it would not need a


grounded cord. Using a multimeter with the unit unplugged check the
resistance between the black and ground and the white and ground,

they
should both be open. Check the resistance between the chassis and

ground,
it should be shorted. Thats a basic test and if it failed, I would

expect
the GFCI to trip always (except if ground is open in which case it

would
never trip).


You say it is only tripping when the motor starts. This implies the

motor
is putting current down the green wire while running. Is it possible


the
green and white wires are swapped for the motor only.



" I opened the expresso machine, tied all connectors I could find,

tried
it again, and it made the GFCI tripped"



What did you do? if you reconnected any wires, you may have created

the
second fault at that time while eliminating an original short in the

old
cord. Swapping black for white or white for ground could be a cause

of
this.



Does the machine also trip regular breakers when the motor starts, if


so it
is not a GFCI condition but an overcurrent protection trip



"fredinstl" wrote in message
oups.com...
thanks for your responses.
I installed a new GFCI, and it was still tripping.
I then tried again to plug it into the other plug I tried before,

and I


realized it actually wasn't a GFCI (I couldn't see it as it was

behind
a 2 - 6 plug adaptor :-( Being in the kitchen, I just assumed it

was
GFCI, but it wasn't).
So now I know my espresso machine is at fault.
I opened the expresso machine, tied all connectors I could find,

tried
it again, and it made the GFCI tripped.
Next thing I tried: changed the cord. I had one at home, so simple
enough. One thing I wasn't sure about is that it had blue, brown

and
yellow-green cables (the espresso is made in Italy), but the cord I


had


was the typical black, white and ground.
I connected in: black/brown, white/blue and yellow-green/ground

(found
that info on the internet)
When plugged in, it doesnt' trip anymore. However, if I activate

the
pump, it trips again.
Any idea before I take it to repair. I probably should do that, but


I
bought it used on ebay, not exactly for cheap, and sent it to

repair
about 5 months ago (they cleaned everything), so my 10 years old
machine already cost me more than a new one :-(
I would hate to fork another $100 on it...



thanks in advance. Fred



PS: I am reposting, as, for some reason, my msg didn't show up as

new.


In my kitchen, my espresso machine is making the GFCI trip. When
plugging something else (such as toaster), it doesn't trip.
Also, plugging the espresso machine to another GFCI in my

kitchen, it


doesnt' trip neither.
So is it due to the espresso machine or shall I just change the

GFCI
?



thanks.



Fred.


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w_tom
 
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Default

As I recall, you had demonstrated leakage from a motor
inside the expresso machine. The conductivity function in a
meter probably will not measure that leakage. 'Kludge' the
power cord connection so that a meter will measure as little
as microamps of AC current. IOW that meter must be able to
measure tenths of AC milliamps. You must put the meter in
series with the safety ground prong.

The GFCI only trips when the motor powers on. Since all
wires are separated, then the motor would be the leakage.
Leakage in motors often means a circuit path that cannot be
measured by the DC test voltage from that meter. A better
alternative would be disassembly, cleaning, and inspection of
that motor.

To answer the risk question, numbers of amps (or milliamps)
that are leaking down the safety ground wire must be known.

fredinstl wrote:
thanks for the answers. I will go buy a multimeter, although I am not
sure
what I should do to correct if I find it doesn't do what Autotracer
explained
below.

What are the risks of using a non-GFCI outlet (not grounded as I live
in an old house) for a few weeks ?
My in-laws are visiting soon, and I'd like to be
able to offer them decent coffee.

  #3   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

" To answer the risk question, numbers of amps (or milliamps)
that are leaking down the safety ground wire must be known. "


If I had an espresso machine that was tripping a GFCI and I determined
it was not the GFCI, I'd either get it fixed or get a new one. Exactly
how much current is leaking has very little relevance. Clearly there
is a defect and the current could change from a very small amount to a
lethal amount with no warning. If it's a loose wire, or partial short,
it could go to lethal just with moisture or a good bump.

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