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#1
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Wirenuts
I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them
but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the plastic insulator as a second step. |
#2
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Wirenuts
There are wire nuts with wings to help grab them, Gardner Bender has a
wrench to tighten theirs as well. The key is in lining the wires up evenly and holding them tightly as you spin on the wire nut. Like anything else, it takes practice "Dave" wrote in message ups.com... I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the plastic insulator as a second step. |
#3
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Wirenuts
Dave wrote:
I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the plastic insulator as a second step. You can over tighten them and you can use the wrong size nut for the size and number of wires. There are also different kinds of wire nuts. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
#4
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Wirenuts
I always twist my wires together tightly with pliers before putting any kind
of wire connector on them. It is important to have the correct size wire connector. "Dave" wrote in message ups.com... I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the plastic insulator as a second step. |
#5
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Wirenuts
Dave ) said...
I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the plastic insulator as a second step. There have been discussions in here on whether you should pre-twist wires or not -- some wirenut manufacturers recommend it, some say you don't have to. I used to only pre-twist when more than two wires were being attached, or if stranded wire was involve. I now always pre-twist for this reason: if you have a solid connection with nothing loose all on its own without a wirenut, then you know you have a good connection and the wirenut serves little more than an insulator for the joint. Strip the ends of wires off at least a half inch more than needed. Line them all up so the end of each wire's insulation are even. Twist the wires using a pair of linesmans pliers so they are held together well. If you need to attached a stranded conductor, hand-twist it around the twisted solid conductors. Then cut off the twisted connection so that it is the right length so as not to protrude from the wirenut once it is installed (this also cuts away the "chewed up" end from the pliers!). Then attach the wirenut. -- Calvin Henry-Cotnam "Never ascribe to malice what can equally be explained by incompetence." - Napoleon ------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: if replying by email, remove "remove." and ".invalid" |
#6
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Wirenuts
"Dave" wrote in message ups.com... I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the plastic insulator as a second step. I always twist the wires with lineman pliers then cut the ends off even. (I wouldn't even need the wirenuts except for insulating of the connections). Connecting a solid to a stranded wire can be a problem. With those I have better luck first bending a 'ripple' into the solid wire. Kevin |
#7
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Wirenuts
they make screwdrivers with a "socket" in the handle that fits over
wirenuts and aids in tightening them. Ideal is one manufacturer fo these screwdrivers. I do like the idea of clear wirenuts though...that would be neat. also, though a lot of people, including myself, twist the wires together by pliers before installing the wirenut its not a good practice. The wirenut is designed to do all the twisting and tightening. |
#8
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Wirenuts
Dave wrote:
I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the plastic insulator as a second step. I like the idea of clear plastic. I always use wirenuts with a "live spring". The spring does not have hard plastic behind it and will deform over the wires giving a longer length of the spring squeezing the wires together. Made by Buchanan, 3M and others. bud-- |
#9
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Wirenuts
....
: : I now always pre-twist for this reason: if you have a solid connection : with nothing loose all on its own without a wirenut, then you know you : have a good connection and the wirenut serves little more than an : insulator for the joint. : : Strip the ends of wires off at least a half inch more than needed. Line : them all up so the end of each wire's insulation are even. Twist the : wires using a pair of linesmans pliers so they are held together well. : If you need to attached a stranded conductor, hand-twist it around the : twisted solid conductors. Then cut off the twisted connection so that it : is the right length so as not to protrude from the wirenut once it is : installed (this also cuts away the "chewed up" end from the pliers!). : Then attach the wirenut. .... Same here; All I use the wire nuts for is insulation. I also tape them with rubber tape. Lots of people are going to disagree with this, but ... so be it g. Pop |
#10
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Wirenuts
"Bud--" wrote in message ... : Dave wrote: : I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them : but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and : is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection : or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square : end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the : plastic insulator as a second step. : : : I like the idea of clear plastic. : : I always use wirenuts with a "live spring". The spring does not have : hard plastic behind it and will deform over the wires giving a longer : length of the spring squeezing the wires together. Made by Buchanan, 3M : and others. : : bud-- REcently learned there are wire nuts pre-loaded with silicone caulk, even, when I had to tie some #8s together for underground. I was pleased & surprised when I poked the wirenut seal & there was caulk already in them; I thought I'd have to manually caulk. I worried a little about the pre-loaded caulk being insulating, but ... no sweat - tested for 12 hrs under high load & no heat - guess they worked well. I didn't pre-twist those; it said not to g. For specialized applications, it's best to follow instructions to the T. Pop |
#11
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Wirenuts
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#12
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Wirenuts
You're supposed to line up the ends of the wires, install the wire nut, and
twist until you see the insulated portion of the wires start to turn. According to most wire nut makers, this insures that the connection is tight. I always pre-twist if at least one of the wires is stranded. "Dave" wrote in message ups.com... I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the plastic insulator as a second step. |
#13
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Wirenuts
Dave wrote:
I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the plastic insulator as a second step. Hi, You need more practice, LOL! Tony |
#14
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Wirenuts
"Pop" wrote in message news:X7tAf.74$mj3.53@trndny06... ... : : I now always pre-twist for this reason: if you have a solid connection : with nothing loose all on its own without a wirenut, then you know you : have a good connection and the wirenut serves little more than an : insulator for the joint. : : Strip the ends of wires off at least a half inch more than needed. Line : them all up so the end of each wire's insulation are even. Twist the : wires using a pair of linesmans pliers so they are held together well. : If you need to attached a stranded conductor, hand-twist it around the : twisted solid conductors. Then cut off the twisted connection so that it : is the right length so as not to protrude from the wirenut once it is : installed (this also cuts away the "chewed up" end from the pliers!). : Then attach the wirenut. ... Same here; All I use the wire nuts for is insulation. I also tape them with rubber tape. Lots of people are going to disagree with this, but ... so be it g. I will triple that recommendation. I have even used tape occasionally. |
#15
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Wirenuts
John‰]
wrote: In article . com, Dave wrote: I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the plastic insulator as a second step. If you don't trust wire nuts, look for the push-in connectors at any of the big box stores. They have an internal spring that grabs the wire when you push it in that prevents it from backing out. You can get them in clear plastic with two to eight ports. They are terrific in crowded boxes with several wire nut connections. They cost more than wire nuts but the savings in time and space are worth it. http://www.electricalbasics.com/acat...onnectors.html Isn't that basically the same technology as the "stab-in" connections on switches that are so maligned here? -- The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to minimize spam. Our true address is of the form . |
#16
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Wirenuts
Pop ) said...
[description of pre-twisting wires before using wirenuts snipped] Same here; All I use the wire nuts for is insulation. I also tape them with rubber tape. Lots of people are going to disagree with this, but ... so be it g. Not so much an argument (ie: an attempt to change your opinion) as just stating another opinion... I don't bother with tape as I find that good wirenuts actually "bite" into the wire a bit and hold in place well. A well pre-twisted set of wires provides a good even surface for the wirenut to hold onto, and if I ever have to take the connection apart, I don't have to put up with a sticky mess. If there's ever any reason to think the wirenut may come loose (and I have had the situation, sometimes especially where stranded conductors are concerned), I will use the type of wirenut that has a stud that clamps on the wires, then you screw the plastic cover onto the stud. -- Calvin Henry-Cotnam "Never ascribe to malice what can equally be explained by incompetence." - Napoleon ------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: if replying by email, remove "remove." and ".invalid" |
#17
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Wirenuts
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#18
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Wirenuts
"Dave" wrote in message
ups.com... I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the plastic insulator as a second step. It is best not to "tighten the hell out of them" - especially when one or more of the wires is stranded, or small guage, as they may be deformed or twisted off. Twist nut firmly, yes, but ensure a low resistance connection by pre-twisting wires with a pair of side-cutting pliers. The nut just insulates the connection, and provides moderated pressure to keep the twist together. For secure connections, I sometimes strip the ends, fine-sandpaper the bare wire, align the ends, then use 1" high qual. elec. tape to wrap just below the stripped part, to keep the wire ends aligned, and thereby suspend the fixture. Then do your wire twist, so that it tapers to the end, and use the wire spring (pricier) insert type wire nuts . Once the nut is tightened, I wrap the nut in a bit of tape in the direction that keeps tension on the nut, and finish wrapping its end around the pre-taped wire itself, as an anchor. I know this sounds compulsive, but I can do it pretty quickly, and it makes a very neat and tidy looking job. As I mentioned, the big advantage of pre-taping before applying the nut is that you can suspend wall fixtures this way, so that twisting can be done at your leisure, with two hands in play. |
#19
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Wirenuts
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#20
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Wirenuts
"Bob" wrote in message news : You're supposed to line up the ends of the wires, install the wire nut, and : twist until you see the insulated portion of the wires start to turn. : According to most wire nut makers, this insures that the connection is : tight. I always pre-twist if at least one of the wires is stranded. It's easier, and better, to take a couple seconds to read the package and see what's recommended for that specific type of wirenut. There are many different kinds and designs. |
#21
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Wirenuts
"Roger" wrote in message ... : "Dave" wrote in message : ups.com... : I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them : but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and : is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection : or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square : end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the : plastic insulator as a second step. : : It is best not to "tighten the hell out of them" - especially when one or : more of the wires is stranded, or small guage, as they may be deformed or : twisted off. : Twist nut firmly, yes, but ensure a low resistance connection by : pre-twisting wires with a pair of side-cutting pliers. The nut just : insulates the connection, and provides moderated pressure to keep the twist : together. For secure connections, I sometimes strip the ends, fine-sandpaper : the bare wire, align the ends, then use 1" high qual. elec. tape to wrap : just below the stripped part, to keep the wire ends aligned, and thereby : suspend the fixture. Then do your wire twist, so that it tapers to the end, : and use the wire spring (pricier) insert type wire nuts . Once the nut is : tightened, I wrap the nut in a bit of tape in the direction that keeps : tension on the nut, and finish wrapping its end around the pre-taped wire : itself, as an anchor. I know this sounds compulsive, but I can do it pretty : quickly, and it makes a very neat and tidy looking job. As I mentioned, the : big advantage of pre-taping before applying the nut is that you can suspend : wall fixtures this way, so that twisting can be done at your leisure, with : two hands in play. : : Yeah, you're right: the hell with the manufacturer's recommendations on the bvest way to do it for that particular brand of type of wirenut you're using. They're all the same, so there's only one way to it; your way. Right. |
#22
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Wirenuts
Pop wrote:
"Roger" wrote in message ... : "Dave" wrote in message : ups.com... : I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them : but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and : is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection : or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square : end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the : plastic insulator as a second step. : : It is best not to "tighten the hell out of them" - especially when one or : more of the wires is stranded, or small guage, as they may be deformed or : twisted off. : Twist nut firmly, yes, but ensure a low resistance connection by : pre-twisting wires with a pair of side-cutting pliers. The nut just : insulates the connection, and provides moderated pressure to keep the twist : together. For secure connections, I sometimes strip the ends, fine-sandpaper : the bare wire, align the ends, then use 1" high qual. elec. tape to wrap : just below the stripped part, to keep the wire ends aligned, and thereby : suspend the fixture. Then do your wire twist, so that it tapers to the end, : and use the wire spring (pricier) insert type wire nuts . Once the nut is : tightened, I wrap the nut in a bit of tape in the direction that keeps : tension on the nut, and finish wrapping its end around the pre-taped wire : itself, as an anchor. I know this sounds compulsive, but I can do it pretty : quickly, and it makes a very neat and tidy looking job. As I mentioned, the : big advantage of pre-taping before applying the nut is that you can suspend : wall fixtures this way, so that twisting can be done at your leisure, with : two hands in play. : : Yeah, you're right: the hell with the manufacturer's recommendations on the bvest way to do it for that particular brand of type of wirenut you're using. They're all the same, so there's only one way to it; your way. Right. I worked for many years in an industrial environment and I never saw an electrician pre-twist the wires. They always lined up the ends and twisted on the wirenuts. We never had any electrical fires in the plant so I guess they knew what they were doing. Bob |
#23
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Wirenuts
"Dave" wrote in news:1137856312.938470.37830
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the plastic insulator as a second step. Ideal makes a set screw wire connector that can be useful: http://www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL- EZ/prodcat.nsf/Tables/Set+Screw+Wire+Connectors?OpenDocument If you don't want to past that together then they're off this page: http://www.idealindustries.com/wt/Lugs.nsf You put the wires in the barrel, tighten the set screw, trim off the excess then put on the cap. Easy to verify by inspection and no twisting. They are much more expensive ($.50-.75/each) than wirenuts and hard to find. McMaster-Carr sells them in small quantities. Doug |
#24
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Wirenuts
According to Calvin Henry-Cotnam :
Pop ) said... [description of pre-twisting wires before using wirenuts snipped] Same here; All I use the wire nuts for is insulation. I also tape them with rubber tape. Lots of people are going to disagree with this, but ... so be it g. Not so much an argument (ie: an attempt to change your opinion) as just stating another opinion... Ditto. I don't bother with tape as I find that good wirenuts actually "bite" into the wire a bit and hold in place well. A well pre-twisted set of wires provides a good even surface for the wirenut to hold onto, and if I ever have to take the connection apart, I don't have to put up with a sticky mess. I always twist, no tape. PS Knight (the Canadian wiring bible) makes a remark that it's usually a sign that the electrician stripped the wires too long, and the tape is to hide the bare bits. Went on to remark that an inspector will often tear the tape off to check the workmanship for just that reason. -- Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them. |
#25
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Wirenuts
"Doug" wrote in message . .. : "Dave" wrote in news:1137856312.938470.37830 : @g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: : : I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them : but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and : is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection : or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square : end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the : plastic insulator as a second step. : : : Ideal makes a set screw wire connector that can be useful: : : http://www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL- : EZ/prodcat.nsf/Tables/Set+Screw+Wire+Connectors?OpenDocument : Hmm, that's a keeper; thanks! Pop |
#26
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Wirenuts
"Chris Lewis" wrote in message ... : According to Calvin Henry-Cotnam : : Pop ) said... : : [description of pre-twisting wires before using wirenuts snipped] : : Same here; All I use the wire nuts for is insulation. I also : tape them with rubber tape. Lots of people are going to disagree : with this, but ... so be it g. : : Not so much an argument (ie: an attempt to change your opinion) as just : stating another opinion... : : Ditto. : : I don't bother with tape as I find that good wirenuts actually "bite" : into the wire a bit and hold in place well. A well pre-twisted set of : wires provides a good even surface for the wirenut to hold onto, and if : I ever have to take the connection apart, I don't have to put up with : a sticky mess. : : I always twist, no tape. PS Knight (the Canadian wiring bible) : makes a remark that it's usually a sign that the electrician stripped : the wires too long, and the tape is to hide the bare bits. Went : on to remark that an inspector will often tear the tape off : to check the workmanship for just that reason. True. But usually only one, in my experience. Usually, unless you make a mess of it, all they do is press a thumbnail into the tape to feel for the edge of the insulation strip - it's not hard to find. I also leave a tiny "flap" on the end of the tape, just in case I want to untape it someday, and I've had a few "somedays" due to changed minds, too. He spotted the flap and used it to unwind the first one, then just "thumbed" the rest on my latest inspection. I like the tape because it keeps bugs etc. out and it looks nice and isn't that much trouble to do for me. Pop |
#27
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Wirenuts
Doug wrote:
"Dave" wrote in news:1137856312.938470.37830 @g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the plastic insulator as a second step. Ideal makes a set screw wire connector that can be useful: http://www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL-EZ/prodcat.nsf/Tables/Set+Screw+Wire+Connectors?OpenDocument If you don't want to past that together then they're off this page: http://www.idealindustries.com/wt/Lugs.nsf You put the wires in the barrel, tighten the set screw, trim off the excess then put on the cap. Easy to verify by inspection and no twisting. They are much more expensive ($.50-.75/each) than wirenuts and hard to find. McMaster-Carr sells them in small quantities. Doug Just checking to see if I could keep the link in a usable form. http://www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL-EZ/prodcat.nsf/Tables/Set+Screw+Wire+Connectors?OpenDocument -- Tom Horne "This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison |
#28
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Wirenuts
Chris Lewis wrote:
According to Calvin Henry-Cotnam : I don't bother with tape as I find that good wirenuts actually "bite" into the wire a bit and hold in place well. A well pre-twisted set of wires provides a good even surface for the wirenut to hold onto, and if I ever have to take the connection apart, I don't have to put up with a sticky mess. I always twist, no tape. PS Knight (the Canadian wiring bible) makes a remark that it's usually a sign that the electrician stripped the wires too long, and the tape is to hide the bare bits. Went on to remark that an inspector will often tear the tape off to check the workmanship for just that reason. A friend of mine was a union electrician for probably 35 years before his death. He taught me to always tape wirenut connections. Neither he nor I ever used it to hide anything, and I never saw him make any connection that was less than perfect. When I push my wiring into the box, especially a crowded box, I know that nothing is going to rub any wirenut loose. -- If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination, my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin. |
#29
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Wirenuts
If you twist the wires together first, and snip off any ends that
stick out a bit too far, you will get a perfect connection every time. It takes practice. Take wire scraps and practice a hundred times... Once you get it right, it will always be done right. The twisting is what REALLY makes the connection. The wirenut just makes the wires stay tightly together and insulate the bare ends. On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 16:19:11 GMT, "Pop" wrote: "Doug" wrote in message ... : "Dave" wrote in news:1137856312.938470.37830 : @g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: : : I swear I don't trust these things. You tighten the hell out of them : but too often one wire does not get pulled in as far as the others and : is still a bit wiggly, and there is no room to do much of an inspection : or pull-test. They need to be made out of clear plastic with a square : end you could twist with a socket wrench -- or maybe install the : plastic insulator as a second step. : : : Ideal makes a set screw wire connector that can be useful: : : http://www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL- : EZ/prodcat.nsf/Tables/Set+Screw+Wire+Connectors?OpenDocument : Hmm, that's a keeper; thanks! Pop |
#30
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Wirenuts
According to Pop :
I like the tape because it keeps bugs etc. out and it looks nice and isn't that much trouble to do for me. I've been known to tape outdoor connections (usually not AC), but I figure if I'm worried about bugs with wirenuts, those same circumstances will cause electrical tape to trap moisture and cause corrosion. Bugs are better than corrosion. -- Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them. |
#31
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Wirenuts
"Chris Lewis" wrote in message ... : According to Pop : : : I like the tape because it keeps bugs etc. out and it looks : nice and isn't that much trouble to do for me. : : I've been known to tape outdoor connections (usually not AC), but : I figure if I'm worried about bugs with wirenuts, those same : circumstances will cause electrical tape to trap moisture and : cause corrosion. Bugs are better than corrosion. : -- : Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est : It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them. LOL, obviously. Tape wrap collects moisture & bugs don;t? |
#32
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Wirenuts
According to Pop :
"Chris Lewis" wrote in message ... : According to Pop : : : I like the tape because it keeps bugs etc. out and it looks : nice and isn't that much trouble to do for me. : : I've been known to tape outdoor connections (usually not AC), but : I figure if I'm worried about bugs with wirenuts, those same : circumstances will cause electrical tape to trap moisture and : cause corrosion. Bugs are better than corrosion. LOL, obviously. Tape wrap collects moisture & bugs don;t? Without the tape wrap it it can dry out. If the tape wrap isn't perfect, and/or deteriorates slightly, driven rain or snow can get in and stay there for quite a while. -- Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them. |
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