In article ,
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message

The dryer COULD push the heated air back into the house with a damper on
the exhaust.

It could , but it also introduces other problems like excessive moisture,
lint that will clog inlets on burners, etc.



Pantyhose collects the lint, and the moisture is useful during the
heating season.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message

The dryer COULD push the heated air back into the house with a
damper on the exhaust.

It could , but it also introduces other problems like excessive
moisture, lint that will clog inlets on burners, etc.

Excessive moisture in the winter? The dampers I've seen have lint screens.

Hi CJT,

Awesome comments! How would I go about checking my duct work in the
attic? I can definitely get up there and eyeball it, but is that the
best way to check it? I've seen on TV where folks use those cameras
that detect heat or cool, but that's abit more then I can afford.

Also I'll definitely look into getting a programmable thermostat. I do
prefer it cooler in the evenings and warmer in the mornings, so might
be something to look into.

As for the computer, I used to be the kinda comptuer guy who left his
computer on ALL the time, but I'm getting away from that. My wife's
computer does stay on, but the power save is on so it shuts off after
like 15 minutes. My PowerMac gets turned off when not in use, and both
of use use LCD monitors.

Thanks again for the great comments, and please let me know how you
checked your duct work in the attic... I'd love any tips, and now that
it's cooler now's the time to get up there

Sam

Whoa there on the dryer.
Here are a couple of things to be aware of:
1. If your clothes take longer that 30-45 minutes to dry, your vent is
clogged.
See www.CleanYourOwnDryerVent.com and

2. DO NOT close the utility room door while the dryer is running.
It needs at least 100 sq inches of open space to draw in relacement air
- air to replace what is being blown out the back of the dryer.
By closing the utility room door, your dryer will work harder, use more
electricity and wear out sooner.

Hi --

Thanks for the input and the link, but though the website you linked to
has some great info, why do they want $24.95 to get their PDF? Also is
there such a thing as a "Certified Dryer Exhaust Technician"? Sounds
like a scam to me...

I agree with you that possibly leaving the laundry room door closed
might not be such a good idea, but in no place I've lived have I ever
had a full load of clothes dry in 30-45 minutes. Maybe a pair of jeans
and a few shirts or some towels, but never an entire load. My dryer is
about 5 years old and takes about 60 minutes for a full load (4-5 pairs
of jeans, 4-5 shirts, and maybe some shorts mixed in).

I'll check my dryer vent this weekend, but with the amount of lent it
throws out into my back yard plus the steamy air that comes out on cold
days I doubt it's clogged to much if any.

Thanks for the info --

Sam

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:12:04 GMT, CJT wrote:

wrote:

"My appretice had a cheap meter. We used it on a service call.
We
: turned the power off at a breaker marked for that unit and
checked it
: with his meter. It showed 0 volts. I started disconnecting a
wire and
: got lit up by 240 volts. "

Which is why even after turning off the breaker, or seeing 0 volts,
I still treat it as possibly alive, until I can try shorting the hot to
ground.

Yes. Any meter, no matter how expensive, can fail (or be misused).

How about measuring the voltage both before and after turning off the
breaker (to verify that the meter is working)?
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:27:10 GMT, CJT wrote:

Alex wrote:

Hey Guys --
snip

And what are ya'lls thoughts on hot water heater timers? I have a new
50 gallon hot water heater (electric) I put in last year, and it's not
a cheapo one -- so i assume it's very efficient. Would I get any
noticeable benefits using a timer?

Thanks again --

Sam

I would think electric hot water heaters should heat water at near 100%
efficiency (if you ignore losses in generating the electricity, which
are somebody else's problem)

that you pay for

and, if well insulated, probably won't
benefit much from using a timer. But I haven't actually tried it.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:30:48 GMT, CJT wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 23:49:34 GMT, CJT wrote:

snip

A programmable thermostat can help, and not only because it can be used
to set back temperatures during part of the day -- some (many?) of them
also have sufficient "smarts" to keep the system from short-cycling,
which is wasteful and potentially harmful to your system.



I know that's a problem for compressors. How would it effect gas or
electric heat?

I had AC in mind. I doubt it would help with heat, although starting
and stopping the furnace fan probably uses a fair amount of electricity.


How about an electric igniter? My furnace uses one of those. It's easy
to tell when you know what high-voltage wiring looks like (like the
spark plug wires in a car).

snip
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Alex wrote:

Hi CJT,

Awesome comments! How would I go about checking my duct work in the
attic? I can definitely get up there and eyeball it, but is that the
best way to check it? I've seen on TV where folks use those cameras
that detect heat or cool, but that's abit more then I can afford.

Also I'll definitely look into getting a programmable thermostat. I do
prefer it cooler in the evenings and warmer in the mornings, so might
be something to look into.

As for the computer, I used to be the kinda comptuer guy who left his
computer on ALL the time, but I'm getting away from that. My wife's
computer does stay on, but the power save is on so it shuts off after
like 15 minutes. My PowerMac gets turned off when not in use, and both
of use use LCD monitors.

Thanks again for the great comments, and please let me know how you
checked your duct work in the attic... I'd love any tips, and now that
it's cooler now's the time to get up there

Sam

Mine was so bad that at first I could see the duct tape flapping in
the breeze from the air escaping the ducts when the furnace fan was on.
Once I had the worst spots fixed it became more challenging, but I could
still often feel the cool breeze of my air conditioning dollars escaping
as I ran my hand along the ductwork. I used the UL listed aluminum tape
for the repairs, and it is MUCH better than regular duct tape (which is
pretty worthless for sealing ducts) -- well worth the $15 +/- per roll.
You might want to investigate whether your local codes require anything
specific (e.g. mastic) in specific applications.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:12:04 GMT, CJT wrote:


wrote:


"My appretice had a cheap meter. We used it on a service call.
We
: turned the power off at a breaker marked for that unit and
checked it
: with his meter. It showed 0 volts. I started disconnecting a
wire and
: got lit up by 240 volts. "

Which is why even after turning off the breaker, or seeing 0 volts,
I still treat it as possibly alive, until I can try shorting the hot to
ground.


Yes. Any meter, no matter how expensive, can fail (or be misused).


How about measuring the voltage both before and after turning off the
breaker (to verify that the meter is working)?

Seems like a good idea to me, but ...

I suspect that the anecdote might have arisen because somebody didn't
have one of the probes where he thought he did -- even your proposed
solution wouldn't necessarily remedy that (depending, of course, on
how/whether the probes were attached in a way that could be guaranteed
to stay the same before/after switching the breaker).

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:27:10 GMT, CJT wrote:


Alex wrote:


Hey Guys --

snip

And what are ya'lls thoughts on hot water heater timers? I have a new
50 gallon hot water heater (electric) I put in last year, and it's not
a cheapo one -- so i assume it's very efficient. Would I get any
noticeable benefits using a timer?

Thanks again --

Sam


I would think electric hot water heaters should heat water at near 100%
efficiency (if you ignore losses in generating the electricity, which
are somebody else's problem)


that you pay for

Sure, but it's reflected in the rate, along with lots of other factors.


and, if well insulated, probably won't
benefit much from using a timer. But I haven't actually tried it.


--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Alex wrote:

snip

I'll check my dryer vent this weekend, but with the amount of lent

haha -- sounds like you're resurrecting an old argument ...

it
throws out into my back yard plus the steamy air that comes out on cold
days I doubt it's clogged to much if any.

Thanks for the info --

Sam



--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:30:48 GMT, CJT wrote:


Mark Lloyd wrote:


On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 23:49:34 GMT, CJT wrote:


snip

A programmable thermostat can help, and not only because it can be used
to set back temperatures during part of the day -- some (many?) of them
also have sufficient "smarts" to keep the system from short-cycling,
which is wasteful and potentially harmful to your system.



I know that's a problem for compressors. How would it effect gas or
electric heat?

I had AC in mind. I doubt it would help with heat, although starting
and stopping the furnace fan probably uses a fair amount of electricity.



How about an electric igniter? My furnace uses one of those. It's easy
to tell when you know what high-voltage wiring looks like (like the
spark plug wires in a car).


snip

I think it would be very interesting to know all the things folks
like Honeywell considered when they designed the algorithms for their
programmable thermostats. I suspect there's a lot more technology in
there than the instruction manual reveals.

Whether electric igniters have their own issues is beyond my expertise.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:47:40 GMT, CJT wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:12:04 GMT, CJT wrote:


wrote:


"My appretice had a cheap meter. We used it on a service call.
We
: turned the power off at a breaker marked for that unit and
checked it
: with his meter. It showed 0 volts. I started disconnecting a
wire and
: got lit up by 240 volts. "

Which is why even after turning off the breaker, or seeing 0 volts,
I still treat it as possibly alive, until I can try shorting the hot to
ground.


Yes. Any meter, no matter how expensive, can fail (or be misused).


How about measuring the voltage both before and after turning off the
breaker (to verify that the meter is working)?

Seems like a good idea to me, but ...

I suspect that the anecdote might have arisen because somebody didn't
have one of the probes where he thought he did -- even your proposed
solution wouldn't necessarily remedy that (depending, of course, on
how/whether the probes were attached in a way that could be guaranteed
to stay the same before/after switching the breaker).

I never expected a simple procedure to ELIMINATE the need to be
careful.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

On 19 Jan 2006 08:45:19 -0800, "Alex" wrote:

Hi --

Thanks for the input and the link, but though the website you linked to
has some great info, why do they want $24.95 to get their PDF? Also is
there such a thing as a "Certified Dryer Exhaust Technician"? Sounds
like a scam to me...

I agree with you that possibly leaving the laundry room door closed
might not be such a good idea, but in no place I've lived have I ever
had a full load of clothes dry in 30-45 minutes. Maybe a pair of jeans
and a few shirts or some towels, but never an entire load. My dryer is
about 5 years old and takes about 60 minutes for a full load (4-5 pairs
of jeans, 4-5 shirts, and maybe some shorts mixed in).

I'll check my dryer vent this weekend, but with the amount of lent it
throws out into my back yard plus the steamy air that comes out on cold
days I doubt it's clogged to much if any.

Thanks for the info --

Sam

I have a Roper dryer that's almost 14 years old. It always takes
longer than 45 minutes to dry a load.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

wrote:

One other thing not mentioned yet is thermostatically-controlled attic
ventilation. Works great for me in SW CT, so I don't know how you
survive without one from June to October in TX.

Anything you can do with a fan can be done with soffit and gable vents,
with no electrical energy. With A ft^2 of vent area at top and bottom
and an H' height diff and dT (F) temp diff, cfm = 16.6Asqrt(HdT).

For example, an attic with 2 2'x2' gable vents and equal soffit vent area
and H = 8' and dT = 10 F would have 16.6x2x2x2sqrt(8x10) = 1188 cfm of
airflow. I'd close the gable vents in wintertime with plywood doors
hinged at the top.

Nick

wrote:
wrote:


One other thing not mentioned yet is thermostatically-controlled attic
ventilation. Works great for me in SW CT, so I don't know how you
survive without one from June to October in TX.


Anything you can do with a fan can be done with soffit and gable vents,

I think that's an overstatement.

with no electrical energy. With A ft^2 of vent area at top and bottom
and an H' height diff and dT (F) temp diff, cfm = 16.6Asqrt(HdT).

Please point us to a derivation of your equation so we can consider
its assumptions.

For example, an attic with 2 2'x2' gable vents and equal soffit vent area
and H = 8' and dT = 10 F would have 16.6x2x2x2sqrt(8x10) = 1188 cfm of
airflow. I'd close the gable vents in wintertime with plywood doors
hinged at the top.

I know that my attic has vents similar to your example, and that its
temperature was well in excess of 120 degrees before adding a fan.
With an outdoor temperature of 90 degrees, I should have had a near
hurricane going on up there according to your calculation, but didn't.


Nick



--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Closing vents in winter can easily lead to mold moisture problems, that
is why they are built open. I tried closing mine in winter and mold grew
on the roof deck.

Pop,
He was a new tech, just out of tech school. We had just hired him.
He had his own tools and we were replacing an air handler. I had him
bring his own tools in, instead of using mine. He had a UEI
combination digital volt meter and digital clamp amp meter. We checked
the voltage with TEST LEADS connected properly to his meter. It showed
zero volts. That is how I got my eyes lit up.

My Fluke clamp on also has voltage and ohms testing capability. Some
clamp on meters only test AC amps, some have other capabilities as
well. I cary 4 meters on my truck, one True RMS, three other digital
meters, clamp and test lead and combination types.

No fish tale, he had used it before, but it was only 6 months old.

Now he has a Fieldpiece meter, not as good as a Fluke, but better than
a UEI.


Stretch

Sam wrote:

"As for the dishwasher, I do have a new one (about one year old), and
it
does have the option to turn off heated drying. I'll start using that
instead. Also the clothes dryer is in a utility room, so I'll close
the vent in there and keep that door shut when being used. That might
help alittle too. "


Sam, closing off all air inlets to the laundry room could be a bad
idea. In order to dry clothes efficiently, air is blown through the
wet clothes, then exhausted outside. Where is the air for your dryer
coming from? If you use outside air, the cool drying temperatures may
not work very well.

Stretch

It is the Chimney Safety Institute of America that runs the Certified
Dryer Exhaust Technician program.