my upstairs toilet started to leak (water was leaking out of lights on
ground floor), so i pulled it up and it looks like i need to re-install some
octagonal tile; put on a new wax ring an then re-seat the toilet. the
toilet had been rocking side to side, but i'm not sure exactly where the
water was coming out of, but it looks like it just needs a reinstall.

but...

when the toilet was installed whomever installed it cracked up some old tile
to fill in the voids around the octagonal tile and the round flange. it
looks like he just adhered those pieces in a bed of tile adhesive or grout
ontop of some substrate.. the top of the flange is about 1/4 inch higher
than the floor.

rather than try to piece together what was there, i thought i'd relay the
tile and then fill in the void with something like Bondo (fiberglass resin
autobody filler). the stuff hardens quickly and can be made level with just
a putty knife. i'd say there are areas of up to 1" between the edge of the
tile and the flange.

good idea or is there something else i should consider? thanks in advance

"hoops" wrote in message
...
my upstairs toilet started to leak (water was leaking out of lights on
ground floor), so i pulled it up and it looks like i need to re-install
some octagonal tile; put on a new wax ring an then re-seat the toilet.
the toilet had been rocking side to side, but i'm not sure exactly where
the water was coming out of, but it looks like it just needs a reinstall.

but...

when the toilet was installed whomever installed it cracked up some old
tile to fill in the voids around the octagonal tile and the round flange.
it looks like he just adhered those pieces in a bed of tile adhesive or
grout ontop of some substrate.. the top of the flange is about 1/4 inch
higher than the floor.

rather than try to piece together what was there, i thought i'd relay the
tile and then fill in the void with something like Bondo (fiberglass resin
autobody filler). the stuff hardens quickly and can be made level with
just a putty knife. i'd say there are areas of up to 1" between the edge
of the tile and the flange.

good idea or is there something else i should consider? thanks in advance



If it won't be visible it should not hurt anything. Why not just use
fix-all, dries fast, cheap and hard. I would shim the toilet when you
reinstall it should not rock, that's why it's leaking the rocking broke the
wax ring seal. What I like to do is when I caulk it to the tile or any
flooring I leave about a one inch spot in the back without caulk. Leaves a
path for water to get out if you should get a leak. Easy to notice then.

Don't know about the Bondo, though it sounds ok to me. Can you figure
out why it was leaking? Flange is secure? Waste line has no leaks? If
you do dry run, putting toilet on flange w/o wax ring, does outer ring
of toilet sit squarely on floor tile? If all seems ok, I would go
ahead. My bro, who is a pro, told me to use a double wax ring ie, 2
of them, just to be safe, make real good seal. Snug your bolts
nicely- not too tight! And clean flange and bottom of toilet and
outer ring of toilet very well- final clean with rubbing alcohol- floor
tile where it will sit also- so wax ring and caulk will get good
adhesion- you'll go round it with caulk after you set it in place.

half the reason the toilet may have been rocking in the first place
might have been the wax ring with the built in plastic funnel didn't
fit there. use a shop vac to suck the toilet trap and tank dry. make
sure you play with the toilet sitting on top of the flange after your
floor repair is dry to see if the toilet rests not rocks on the level
floor. use a carpenter's level to see if your toilet base is even, it
may have an original flaw. don't seat the wax ring until you put
plumber's putty around the outside edge of the base of your toilet. the
putty will allow you to change the wax seal next time without pulling
up the floor.
see also fluidmaster
see also fernco makes a heckuva new toilet rubber gasketed replacement
flange see your home depot.

http://www.fluidmaster.com/

http://www.fernco.com/FTS.asp
makes new 3 and 4 inch non-wax toilet seals we recently installed one
- nice!

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 04:56:29 GMT, "Sacramento Dave"
wrote:


"hoops" wrote in message
...
my upstairs toilet started to leak (water was leaking out of lights on
ground floor), so i pulled it up and it looks like i need to re-install
some octagonal tile; put on a new wax ring an then re-seat the toilet.
the toilet had been rocking side to side, but i'm not sure exactly where
the water was coming out of, but it looks like it just needs a reinstall.

but...

when the toilet was installed whomever installed it cracked up some old
tile to fill in the voids around the octagonal tile and the round flange.
it looks like he just adhered those pieces in a bed of tile adhesive or
grout ontop of some substrate.. the top of the flange is about 1/4 inch
higher than the floor.



If it won't be visible it should not hurt anything. Why not just use

I agree.

fix-all, dries fast, cheap and hard. I would shim the toilet when you
reinstall it should not rock, that's why it's leaking the rocking broke the
wax ring seal. What I like to do is when I caulk it to the tile or any
flooring I leave about a one inch spot in the back without caulk. Leaves a
path for water to get out if you should get a leak. Easy to notice then.

Are you saying that sometimes leaks will be easy to notice, or all the
time? Seems like sometimes it would leak below the floor without
ever making it to the back, but I have no experience on this.


Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

"
Are you saying that sometimes leaks will be easy to notice, or all the
time? Seems like sometimes it would leak below the floor without
ever making it to the back, but I have no experience on this.


What I'm trying say is instead of the water sitting under the water closet
( toilet) trapped by a ring of caulking, increasing damage to the flooring
and sub floor. The cap in the caulking will let the water out you will be
able to se the water on the floor and know there is a problem. Most the time
the damage is done by the time you realize there's a leak. If it's my house
I don't even caulk the WC for about a week when I first flush it I slide a
piece of paper under the mooting and see if it picks up any moisture.

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 16:24:18 GMT, "Sacramento Dave"
wrote:


"
Are you saying that sometimes leaks will be easy to notice, or all the
time? Seems like sometimes it would leak below the floor without
ever making it to the back, but I have no experience on this.


What I'm trying say is instead of the water sitting under the water closet
( toilet) trapped by a ring of caulking, increasing damage to the flooring
and sub floor. The cap in the caulking will let the water out you will be
able to se the water on the floor and know there is a problem. Most the time
the damage is done by the time you realize there's a leak. If it's my house
I don't even caulk the WC for about a week when I first flush it I slide a
piece of paper under the mooting and see if it picks up any moisture.

Good idea. Thanks.

I've only done this once, and we broke up so I don't know if there
were any leaks or not.

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

You definitely want to replace any damaged wood, don't just try to patch
it up. I personally would never use a wax ring again, they make new
products that won't leak should the toilet rock side to side again.
Check out plumb-bob.com and look at their ultraseal product. It's by
far the best I've ever used. Also, someone mentioned sealing all around
the bottom of the toilet. That is a big no-no. Leave the back unsealed
so if it ever leaks you know right away. If you catch a water leak soon
there won't be much water damage but unseen water will gradually cause
major damage. Also, when you repair the toilet closet flange, it should
be at the same level or slightly lower than the floor level. Using the
ultraseal, lower is fine. And a properly installed toilet should never
rock back and forth...never. If the job is done right you should not
have to use plastic shims. Good luck.

J




hoops wrote:
my upstairs toilet started to leak (water was leaking out of lights on
ground floor), so i pulled it up and it looks like i need to re-install some
octagonal tile; put on a new wax ring an then re-seat the toilet. the
toilet had been rocking side to side, but i'm not sure exactly where the
water was coming out of, but it looks like it just needs a reinstall.

but...

when the toilet was installed whomever installed it cracked up some old tile
to fill in the voids around the octagonal tile and the round flange. it
looks like he just adhered those pieces in a bed of tile adhesive or grout
ontop of some substrate.. the top of the flange is about 1/4 inch higher
than the floor.

rather than try to piece together what was there, i thought i'd relay the
tile and then fill in the void with something like Bondo (fiberglass resin
autobody filler). the stuff hardens quickly and can be made level with just
a putty knife. i'd say there are areas of up to 1" between the edge of the
tile and the flange.

good idea or is there something else i should consider? thanks in advance

okay...

i pulled the toilet and removed all the loose tile/grout. the subfloor is
ok, but (and i don't think this is unusual) the area around the pipe (which
attaches to the flange) has a void all around it. thus if/when water seeps
around the seal (as i guess it did yesterday), it goes straight downstairs.

anyway, while the toilet was off, i started to relay the tile. it had been
drying for several hours and all was well until...

someone used the toilet in the adjacent bathroom and it clogged and when it
was being plunged, the water level in the open toilet flange started to rise
and it poured onto the floor. i wet-vacced the water and the pipe (several
times and thru several flushes of the other toilet) and out came all sort of
crap and several wipes (i know you shouldn't use them, but we do). the
wetvac got everything out (confirmed when i snaked the pipe) and the system
seems ok now.

i'm guessing that there is a "T" (the 2 toilets are on the horizontal line
and share a downspout and there was a clog in the downspout. this gave the
water nowhere to go and when it backed up into the (open) toilet, the seal
couldn't hold it back.

make sense?

if so, with the pipes all clear, i'm waiting for everything to dry and then
i can continue the tile & grout job; fill the voids with bondo; replace the
toilet. thanks for all recs and help. i am going to use one of the waxless
rings.


"Joey" wrote in message
...
You definitely want to replace any damaged wood, don't just try to patch
it up. I personally would never use a wax ring again, they make new
products that won't leak should the toilet rock side to side again.
Check out plumb-bob.com and look at their ultraseal product. It's by far
the best I've ever used. Also, someone mentioned sealing all around the
bottom of the toilet. That is a big no-no. Leave the back unsealed so if
it ever leaks you know right away. If you catch a water leak soon there
won't be much water damage but unseen water will gradually cause major
damage. Also, when you repair the toilet closet flange, it should be at
the same level or slightly lower than the floor level. Using the
ultraseal, lower is fine. And a properly installed toilet should never
rock back and forth...never. If the job is done right you should not have
to use plastic shims. Good luck.

J




hoops wrote:
my upstairs toilet started to leak (water was leaking out of lights on
ground floor), so i pulled it up and it looks like i need to re-install
some octagonal tile; put on a new wax ring an then re-seat the toilet.
the toilet had been rocking side to side, but i'm not sure exactly where
the water was coming out of, but it looks like it just needs a reinstall.

but...

when the toilet was installed whomever installed it cracked up some old
tile to fill in the voids around the octagonal tile and the round flange.
it looks like he just adhered those pieces in a bed of tile adhesive or
grout ontop of some substrate.. the top of the flange is about 1/4 inch
higher than the floor.

rather than try to piece together what was there, i thought i'd relay the
tile and then fill in the void with something like Bondo (fiberglass
resin autobody filler). the stuff hardens quickly and can be made level
with just a putty knife. i'd say there are areas of up to 1" between the
edge of the tile and the flange.

good idea or is there something else i should consider? thanks in
advance

i spoke too soon.

my son took a shower in the other bathroom and the water level in the open
toilet rose and we didn't notice it for 5 minutes, so the water leaked and
flooded the kitchen. major damage to ceiling. now i'm stumped. i figured
the pipe was clear. any ideas/help???


"hoops" wrote in message
...
okay...

i pulled the toilet and removed all the loose tile/grout. the subfloor is
ok, but (and i don't think this is unusual) the area around the pipe
(which attaches to the flange) has a void all around it. thus if/when
water seeps around the seal (as i guess it did yesterday), it goes
straight downstairs.

anyway, while the toilet was off, i started to relay the tile. it had
been drying for several hours and all was well until...

someone used the toilet in the adjacent bathroom and it clogged and when
it was being plunged, the water level in the open toilet flange started to
rise and it poured onto the floor. i wet-vacced the water and the pipe
(several times and thru several flushes of the other toilet) and out came
all sort of crap and several wipes (i know you shouldn't use them, but we
do). the wetvac got everything out (confirmed when i snaked the pipe) and
the system seems ok now.

i'm guessing that there is a "T" (the 2 toilets are on the horizontal line
and share a downspout and there was a clog in the downspout. this gave
the water nowhere to go and when it backed up into the (open) toilet, the
seal couldn't hold it back.

make sense?

if so, with the pipes all clear, i'm waiting for everything to dry and
then i can continue the tile & grout job; fill the voids with bondo;
replace the toilet. thanks for all recs and help. i am going to use one
of the waxless rings.


"Joey" wrote in message
...
You definitely want to replace any damaged wood, don't just try to patch
it up. I personally would never use a wax ring again, they make new
products that won't leak should the toilet rock side to side again.
Check out plumb-bob.com and look at their ultraseal product. It's by far
the best I've ever used. Also, someone mentioned sealing all around the
bottom of the toilet. That is a big no-no. Leave the back unsealed so
if it ever leaks you know right away. If you catch a water leak soon
there won't be much water damage but unseen water will gradually cause
major damage. Also, when you repair the toilet closet flange, it should
be at the same level or slightly lower than the floor level. Using the
ultraseal, lower is fine. And a properly installed toilet should never
rock back and forth...never. If the job is done right you should not
have to use plastic shims. Good luck.

J




hoops wrote:
my upstairs toilet started to leak (water was leaking out of lights on
ground floor), so i pulled it up and it looks like i need to re-install
some octagonal tile; put on a new wax ring an then re-seat the toilet.
the toilet had been rocking side to side, but i'm not sure exactly where
the water was coming out of, but it looks like it just needs a
reinstall.

but...

when the toilet was installed whomever installed it cracked up some old
tile to fill in the voids around the octagonal tile and the round
flange. it looks like he just adhered those pieces in a bed of tile
adhesive or grout ontop of some substrate.. the top of the flange is
about 1/4 inch higher than the floor.

rather than try to piece together what was there, i thought i'd relay
the tile and then fill in the void with something like Bondo (fiberglass
resin autobody filler). the stuff hardens quickly and can be made level
with just a putty knife. i'd say there are areas of up to 1" between
the edge of the tile and the flange.

good idea or is there something else i should consider? thanks in
advance

"hoops" writes:

i spoke too soon.

my son took a shower in the other bathroom and the water level in the open
toilet rose and we didn't notice it for 5 minutes, so the water leaked and
flooded the kitchen. major damage to ceiling. now i'm stumped. i figured
the pipe was clear. any ideas/help???

If you have a snake, use it.
Otherwise, it might be time to call a plumber.

i used a snake and the pipe was clean.

it was suggested to me tonight that the second leak occured because when we
ran the shower, the toilet (in the other bathroom) wasn't installed and the
water came up out of that pipe and flange. my pal suggested that the
pressure of the water in that toilet acts as a stopper. make sense?


"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...
"hoops" writes:

i spoke too soon.

my son took a shower in the other bathroom and the water level in the
open
toilet rose and we didn't notice it for 5 minutes, so the water leaked
and
flooded the kitchen. major damage to ceiling. now i'm stumped. i
figured
the pipe was clear. any ideas/help???

If you have a snake, use it.
Otherwise, it might be time to call a plumber.

you have a blockage in the sewer line preventing the other devices from
freely draining.

called a sewer drain guy. pipes leading out of house clear. i snake the
inside pipe, but it was clear. he took out a large CO2 canister and blew
the pipes out from the open pipe (where my toilet was) and we heard this
huge bang and everything drained. it looks like it was the pipe leading
down and eventually out of the house. $75 and it waas cured.

now all i need do is finish patching up the tile; reinstall the toilet and
of course re do all the ceiling insulation and sheetrock in my kitchen.
thanks for all your help


"hoops" wrote in message
news
i used a snake and the pipe was clean.

it was suggested to me tonight that the second leak occured because when
we ran the shower, the toilet (in the other bathroom) wasn't installed and
the water came up out of that pipe and flange. my pal suggested that the
pressure of the water in that toilet acts as a stopper. make sense?


"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...
"hoops" writes:

i spoke too soon.

my son took a shower in the other bathroom and the water level in the
open
toilet rose and we didn't notice it for 5 minutes, so the water leaked
and
flooded the kitchen. major damage to ceiling. now i'm stumped. i
figured
the pipe was clear. any ideas/help???

If you have a snake, use it.
Otherwise, it might be time to call a plumber.

Hoops,

I am against using the bondo as I would fix the wood right and then
probably put in a new closet flange, but at least you're going to use
the waxless seal, that will help. Good luck

J




hoops wrote:
called a sewer drain guy. pipes leading out of house clear. i snake the
inside pipe, but it was clear. he took out a large CO2 canister and blew
the pipes out from the open pipe (where my toilet was) and we heard this
huge bang and everything drained. it looks like it was the pipe leading
down and eventually out of the house. $75 and it waas cured.

now all i need do is finish patching up the tile; reinstall the toilet and
of course re do all the ceiling insulation and sheetrock in my kitchen.
thanks for all your help


"hoops" wrote in message
news
i used a snake and the pipe was clean.

it was suggested to me tonight that the second leak occured because when
we ran the shower, the toilet (in the other bathroom) wasn't installed and
the water came up out of that pipe and flange. my pal suggested that the
pressure of the water in that toilet acts as a stopper. make sense?


"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...

"hoops" writes:


i spoke too soon.

my son took a shower in the other bathroom and the water level in the
open
toilet rose and we didn't notice it for 5 minutes, so the water leaked
and
flooded the kitchen. major damage to ceiling. now i'm stumped. i
figured
the pipe was clear. any ideas/help???

If you have a snake, use it.
Otherwise, it might be time to call a plumber.

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:40:39 -0500, Joey
wrote:

Hoops,

I am against using the bondo as I would fix the wood right and then
probably put in a new closet flange, but at least you're going to use
the waxless seal, that will help. Good luck

J

Whats a waxless seal? Must be something new...

wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:40:39 -0500, Joey
wrote:


Hoops,

I am against using the bondo as I would fix the wood right and then
probably put in a new closet flange, but at least you're going to use
the waxless seal, that will help. Good luck

J


Whats a waxless seal? Must be something new...


www.plumb-bob.com

Ultraseal, comes in 3 and 4 inch sizes.

Joey wrote:
Ultraseal, comes in 3 and 4 inch sizes.

This seal appears to have a compression seal at the top to the toilet
flange. So the O-ring has to grip the walls of the pipe pretty hard.
This could be hard to do in old pipe which is cast iron. HD has another
seal that sticks to the toilet flange and so doesn't depend on gripping
the pipe.