Heard a loud pop last night and this morning I found 4 ceramic tiles buckled
like pavement on a hot day. The floor is 20 years old and was installed by
pros. Tiles were 8inches square

The adhesive was thinset with about 1/3 stuck to the tiles and 2/3s to the
floor. The tiles were installed over plywood. The thinset left on the
plywood is easily scraped off with a putty knife.

Ignoring what caused them to pop up in the first place (I don't know), whats
the best way to stick them back down? Mastic comes to mind but I think there
will be height difference between old tiles and new due to the thickness of
existing thinset. I'm having a hard time believing that thinset sticks to
plywood if I use thinset. How do you get thinset to stick to plywood?

I suspect from the sound of the floor that there are other tiles beginning
to loosen up. Is this normal for thinset over plywood.? The floor seems
pretty rigid with no squeaks. From below it looks like they used a nail
every 6 inches to hold the plywood down.

"jmagerl" wrote in message
...
Heard a loud pop last night and this morning I found 4 ceramic tiles
buckled like pavement on a hot day. The floor is 20 years old and was
installed by pros. Tiles were 8inches square

The adhesive was thinset with about 1/3 stuck to the tiles and 2/3s to the
floor. The tiles were installed over plywood. The thinset left on the
plywood is easily scraped off with a putty knife.

Ignoring what caused them to pop up in the first place (I don't know),
whats the best way to stick them back down? Mastic comes to mind but I
think there will be height difference between old tiles and new due to the
thickness of existing thinset. I'm having a hard time believing that
thinset sticks to plywood if I use thinset. How do you get thinset to
stick to plywood?

I suspect from the sound of the floor that there are other tiles beginning
to loosen up. Is this normal for thinset over plywood.? The floor seems
pretty rigid with no squeaks. From below it looks like they used a nail
every 6 inches to hold the plywood down.


IMHO, if you got twenty years out of thinset over plywood, ya dun good.

Steve

jmagerl wrote:

I suspect from the sound of the floor that there are other tiles beginning
to loosen up. Is this normal for thinset over plywood.? The floor seems
pretty rigid with no squeaks. From below it looks like they used a nail
every 6 inches to hold the plywood down.

keep it simple, get some liquid nails, plopem back down

Merry Christmas

"jmagerl" wrote in message
...
Heard a loud pop last night and this morning I found 4 ceramic tiles
buckled
like pavement on a hot day. The floor is 20 years old and was installed by
pros. Tiles were 8inches square

The adhesive was thinset with about 1/3 stuck to the tiles and 2/3s to the
floor. The tiles were installed over plywood. The thinset left on the
plywood is easily scraped off with a putty knife.

Ignoring what caused them to pop up in the first place (I don't know),
whats
the best way to stick them back down? Mastic comes to mind but I think
there
will be height difference between old tiles and new due to the thickness
of
existing thinset. I'm having a hard time believing that thinset sticks to
plywood if I use thinset. How do you get thinset to stick to plywood?

I suspect from the sound of the floor that there are other tiles beginning
to loosen up. Is this normal for thinset over plywood.? The floor seems
pretty rigid with no squeaks. From below it looks like they used a nail
every 6 inches to hold the plywood down.

Do the tiles seem to be solid next to the loose one's? My first thought
would be expansion causing them to pop loose after 20 years. but their also
had to be a lot of hotter days in 20 years so it could just be material
failure. My self I would not use thinset on plywood. You say you think other
tiles are lose sounds like it's time for an upgrade.
..

Either wood floor contraction or expansion or house settling, being
winter probably contraction to low humidity. Maybe as chickenwing said
fix it easily till you decide what to do

jmagerl wrote:
Heard a loud pop last night and this morning I found 4 ceramic tiles buckled
like pavement on a hot day. The floor is 20 years old and was installed by
pros. Tiles were 8inches square

The adhesive was thinset with about 1/3 stuck to the tiles and 2/3s to the
floor. The tiles were installed over plywood. The thinset left on the
plywood is easily scraped off with a putty knife.

They were anything but pros. That is why I hate to hire anyone to do
anything to my home!
Should have been thinset to cement backer board to plywood as a
minimum. Heck, if they were "pros" they would have done a dry morter
bed first. As was posted, I'm amazed they lasted 20 years as well!

Just for you future info - plywood expands and contracts and also
absorbs most of the moisture out of the thinset during the install.


--
Bill

jmagerl wrote:
Heard a loud pop last night and this morning I found 4 ceramic tiles buckled
like pavement on a hot day. The floor is 20 years old and was installed by
pros. Tiles were 8inches square

The adhesive was thinset with about 1/3 stuck to the tiles and 2/3s to the
floor. The tiles were installed over plywood. The thinset left on the
plywood is easily scraped off with a putty knife.

Ignoring what caused them to pop up in the first place (I don't know), whats
the best way to stick them back down? Mastic comes to mind but I think there
will be height difference between old tiles and new due to the thickness of
existing thinset. I'm having a hard time believing that thinset sticks to
plywood if I use thinset. How do you get thinset to stick to plywood?

I suspect from the sound of the floor that there are other tiles beginning
to loosen up. Is this normal for thinset over plywood.? The floor seems
pretty rigid with no squeaks. From below it looks like they used a nail
every 6 inches to hold the plywood down.

You think it's wise to ignore what caused four tiles to buckle
overnight? I wouldn't spend any effort on resetting tile until I found
out what the cause was.

Where exactly were the tiles located in the bathroom?

R

RicodJour wrote:

Where exactly were the tiles located in the bathroom?

R

I think she knows a little more than she's telling

My bathroom floor tiles were put down with thinset over od hardwood
floors. They have been lifting and loosening for years. I stick them
back down with floor tile adhesive. Seems to work, but what a pain.
Thinset must be garbage. Seems like it is a problem.
M


On 26 Dec 2005 22:56:13 -0800, "chickenwing"
wrote:


RicodJour wrote:

Where exactly were the tiles located in the bathroom?

R

I think she knows a little more than she's telling

mstrspy wrote:
My bathroom floor tiles were put down with thinset over od hardwood
floors. They have been lifting and loosening for years. I stick them
back down with floor tile adhesive. Seems to work, but what a pain.
Thinset must be garbage. Seems like it is a problem.
M

it really just depends on the subfloor

the real test for a subfloor, is to jump up and down between the
joists...see if the floor gives...and how much it gives, also see how
much bounce you can get from a joist system. a bouncy living room is a
yellow flag..that system would need some extra peirs under them...as
needed.

try tightening up the floor where your tiles are cracking.

the floor is moving

mstrspy wrote:
My bathroom floor tiles were put down with thinset over od hardwood
floors. They have been lifting and loosening for years. I stick them
back down with floor tile adhesive. Seems to work, but what a pain.
Thinset must be garbage. Seems like it is a problem.

The garbage was the plan on setting tile directly on hardwood floors.
Thinset is not the problem. If they've been lifting and loosening for
years it's time to redo the floor correctly.

R

RicodJour wrote:
mstrspy wrote:
My bathroom floor tiles were put down with thinset over od hardwood
floors. They have been lifting and loosening for years. I stick them
back down with floor tile adhesive. Seems to work, but what a pain.
Thinset must be garbage. Seems like it is a problem.

The garbage was the plan on setting tile directly on hardwood floors.
Thinset is not the problem. If they've been lifting and loosening for
years it's time to redo the floor correctly.

R

yeah, i've never heard of setting directly onto hardwood
I don't see how any mortar would bond to a hardwood

or WHAT some numbnutz was thinking when they put it down
i'd like to have a word with them by God

In article ,
says...
My bathroom floor tiles were put down with thinset over od hardwood
floors. They have been lifting and loosening for years. I stick them
back down with floor tile adhesive. Seems to work, but what a pain.
Thinset must be garbage. Seems like it is a problem.

Yes, thinset is junk, like everything, if used incorrectly. Thinset
is *not* intended to be used with a plywood substrate, much less
hardwood flooring. Rip it all up and do it right.

--
Keith

Keith Williams wrote:
In article ,
says...
My bathroom floor tiles were put down with thinset over od hardwood
floors. They have been lifting and loosening for years. I stick them
back down with floor tile adhesive. Seems to work, but what a pain.
Thinset must be garbage. Seems like it is a problem.

Yes, thinset is junk, like everything, if used incorrectly. Thinset
is *not* intended to be used with a plywood substrate, much less
hardwood flooring. Rip it all up and do it right.

The Tile Council of America, and most thinset manufacturers I've run
across, allow thinset on plywood for light, dry, residential foot
traffic. That being said, I think it's a **** poor way to go.

R

Keith Williams wrote:

Yes, thinset is junk, like everything, if used incorrectly. Thinset
is *not* intended to be used with a plywood substrate, much less
hardwood flooring. Rip it all up and do it right.

--
Keith

on the bag of mortar is says, ideal for ext plywood substrates
ideal is just peachy..so long as plywood does not move or get wet too
much

In article .com,
says...

Keith Williams wrote:
In article ,
says...
My bathroom floor tiles were put down with thinset over od hardwood
floors. They have been lifting and loosening for years. I stick them
back down with floor tile adhesive. Seems to work, but what a pain.
Thinset must be garbage. Seems like it is a problem.

Yes, thinset is junk, like everything, if used incorrectly. Thinset
is *not* intended to be used with a plywood substrate, much less
hardwood flooring. Rip it all up and do it right.

The Tile Council of America, and most thinset manufacturers I've run
across, allow thinset on plywood for light, dry, residential foot
traffic.

The modified thinset I used discouraged plywood, but said that it
could be used if it was sealed. If not sealed it would likely dry
out the thinset.

That being said, I think it's a **** poor way to go.

Agreed, though the builder (I assume) of my house did it. I just
tore it all out this summer. What a PITA. Many tiles were loose
and I decided it was time to start over. Half the tiles were stuck
tight to the thinset. The other half the thiset was stuck tight to
the subfloor. Little was fastened securely. I ended up replacing a
couple of sheets of subflooring. Did I say it was a PITA?

--
Keith

Keith Williams wrote:

Agreed, though the builder (I assume) of my house did it. I just
tore it all out this summer. What a PITA. Many tiles were loose
and I decided it was time to start over. Half the tiles were stuck
tight to the thinset. The other half the thiset was stuck tight to
the subfloor. Little was fastened securely. I ended up replacing a
couple of sheets of subflooring. Did I say it was a PITA?

--
Keith

agreed, they should not have come up so easy
any glue will work, i've repaired cinderblock with subfloor glue
(where's it going)...

most of the time people walk and their tile too soon
it takes a good 2 months or more, for a wet job to
fully cure...given the room and floor dry around room temp

if you seal the floor before 2 weeks expire, you are sealing moisture
into the floor
it will eventually get out...but it will take that much longer

where can moisture go except up...and into your substrate / then where
does it go...
it don't, it stays there, it softens the floor, we walk on them too
soon.

we should, take a vacation while the tile dries

someone says...ah hell you can walk on that! you can?
but it ain't dry...

I always read mfg instructions (now I do)...
it gives me a solid answer for my customers

I don't insist on anything, I have to walk on my floors
but I know how to weigh 30 lbs less on my tile
while it's curing

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 00:55:42 -0600, "jmagerl"
wrote:

Heard a loud pop last night and this morning I found 4 ceramic tiles buckled
like pavement on a hot day. The floor is 20 years old and was installed by
pros. Tiles were 8inches square

The adhesive was thinset with about 1/3 stuck to the tiles and 2/3s to the
floor. The tiles were installed over plywood. The thinset left on the
plywood is easily scraped off with a putty knife.

Ignoring what caused them to pop up in the first place (I don't know), whats
the best way to stick them back down? Mastic comes to mind but I think there
will be height difference between old tiles and new due to the thickness of
existing thinset. I'm having a hard time believing that thinset sticks to
plywood if I use thinset. How do you get thinset to stick to plywood?

I suspect from the sound of the floor that there are other tiles beginning
to loosen up. Is this normal for thinset over plywood.? The floor seems
pretty rigid with no squeaks. From below it looks like they used a nail
every 6 inches to hold the plywood down.

You need to put down hardbacker sheets over the plywood to elimate the
tiles from all popping. In other words you need to pull up all the
tiles and start from scatch sorry! Anthony



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