My wife is nagging me for an outlet in the entryway. The only possible
place for it is in the ceramic tile floor. I have a lot of questions...

1) How do I do the cut out? I have a bit for my rotary tool that claimed to
be made for cutting ceramic tile. Anyone used one of these? Is is
reliable? I don't want to start something i can't finish, or shatter the
tile. It is 1/4" so i could use my router instead of the rotary tool.
Would that be a good choice? Would I crank the speed down to match a rotary
tool? How do I make the initial hole; a carbide drill?
Any other suggestions?

2) Any electrical code relevant to a floor outlet? I suppose GFCI would be
a good choice, anything else?

thanks.

How would you run the supply, from the basement? Drill bits
specifically for tile and glass are available at your local hardware
store. Get your box in hand before you drill or rout. I'd run the GFCI
upstream from the outlet in the floor, as it's easier (for me) to find
protective covers for regular outlets. Tom

You know what will happen when she mops the floor or kids play, 120v.

"Toller" wrote in message

How do I make the initial hole; a carbide drill?

Yes, even a plain HHS drill will work.


2) Any electrical code relevant to a floor outlet? I suppose GFCI would
be a good choice, anything else?


Yes, a floor outlet cannot be just in the floor facing up. There are
housings made for that type of application that sit on top of the floor.

I would think the probability of a first attempt at cutting an outlet
opening in ceramic tile by an amateur without tile damage to be pretty
small. It is also a lot of work. A Dremel type tool does not have enough
power to do the job within any reasonable time. Carbide or diamond drill and
abrasive saw would probably be the best tools. Lots of care, a steady hand
and lots of dust are involved. I would recommend a professional tile person
be hired.

A floor outlet is generally not a good idea because of dirt getting in the
outlet and damage to plugs and cords from feet, furniture, sweeping,
mopping, etc.. I am not aware of any specific code requirements. It
certainly is possible but I would try to avoid it if at all possible. It is
usually much easier to find a place on a vertical surface even if getting
wiring to it requires ingenuity.
Don Young
"Toller" wrote in message
...
My wife is nagging me for an outlet in the entryway. The only possible
place for it is in the ceramic tile floor. I have a lot of questions...

1) How do I do the cut out? I have a bit for my rotary tool that claimed
to be made for cutting ceramic tile. Anyone used one of these? Is is
reliable? I don't want to start something i can't finish, or shatter the
tile. It is 1/4" so i could use my router instead of the rotary tool.
Would that be a good choice? Would I crank the speed down to match a
rotary tool? How do I make the initial hole; a carbide drill?
Any other suggestions?

2) Any electrical code relevant to a floor outlet? I suppose GFCI would
be a good choice, anything else?

thanks.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Yes, a floor outlet cannot be just in the floor facing up.

No but there are recessed fittings that have them facing upwards.

There are housings made for that type of application that sit on
top of the floor.

Yes, a much better solution for this situation although the whole thing may
not be such a great idea depending how close to the door we're talking. If
it's where people come in with dripping shoes, coats, and umbrellas, and
maybe snow/slush it's a very bad idea. GFI a must of course. I wonder why
the outlet can't be conventionally mounted in one of the walls. Presumably
he has access to a basement or crawlspace underneath if he's proposing a
floor outlet.

"Steve Kraus" wrote in message
news
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Yes, a floor outlet cannot be just in the floor facing up.

No but there are recessed fittings that have them facing upwards.

There are housings made for that type of application that sit on
top of the floor.

Yes, a much better solution for this situation although the whole thing
may
not be such a great idea depending how close to the door we're talking.
If
it's where people come in with dripping shoes, coats, and umbrellas, and
maybe snow/slush it's a very bad idea. GFI a must of course. I wonder
why
the outlet can't be conventionally mounted in one of the walls.
Presumably
he has access to a basement or crawlspace underneath if he's proposing a
floor outlet.

She wants it in the corner which has the open stairway to the basement on
both sides, so there is no wall to put it into. It could be put into the
side of the stairs, but the box is thicker than the stair material so it
would look awful, and getting the cable to it would be a challenge. There
is a table over where it would go, so it is reasonably well protected on the
floor. There is acess to the floor from below.
She suggested putting it down below, actually in the top of the basement
wall and running a cord through the stairs, but the floor joists make
anything but a surface box impossible, and that would be hideous. Putting
it below the floor joists woud probably be possible, but then it would be a
good 6' from where she wants it.

All in all, it is not a good place for an outlet.

There are lower profile boxes available that might fit within your
narrow wall, though I'm not sure about code for one of those.

Toller wrote:

My wife is nagging me for an outlet in the entryway. The only possible
place for it is in the ceramic tile floor. I have a lot of questions...

1) How do I do the cut out? I have a bit for my rotary tool that claimed to
be made for cutting ceramic tile. Anyone used one of these? Is is
reliable? I don't want to start something i can't finish, or shatter the
tile. It is 1/4" so i could use my router instead of the rotary tool.
Would that be a good choice? Would I crank the speed down to match a rotary
tool? How do I make the initial hole; a carbide drill?
Any other suggestions?

2) Any electrical code relevant to a floor outlet? I suppose GFCI would be
a good choice, anything else?

thanks.


are you sure you can not go thru the baseboard?

Toller wrote:

She wants it in the corner which has the open stairway to the basement on
both sides, so there is no wall to put it into. It could be put into the
side of the stairs, but the box is thicker than the stair material so it
would look awful, and getting the cable to it would be a challenge. There
is a table over where it would go, so it is reasonably well protected on the
floor. There is acess to the floor from below.
She suggested putting it down below, actually in the top of the basement
wall and running a cord through the stairs, but the floor joists make
anything but a surface box impossible, and that would be hideous. Putting
it below the floor joists woud probably be possible, but then it would be a
good 6' from where she wants it.

All in all, it is not a good place for an outlet.

Even open stairways have railings. Can you run the wiring inside a
routed channel in one of the spindles?

I personally think that a floor outlet would look pretty hideous under
an open table next to an open stairway.

Is this whole thing for a table lamp? How about having a hanging
fixture instead?

R

"Don Young" wrote in message
...
I would think the probability of a first attempt at cutting an outlet
opening in ceramic tile by an amateur without tile damage to be pretty
small. It is also a lot of work. A Dremel type tool does not have enough
power to do the job within any reasonable time. Carbide or diamond drill
and abrasive saw would probably be the best tools. Lots of care, a steady
hand and lots of dust are involved. I would recommend a professional tile
person be hired.

i would use a 4" diamond dry blade in a side grinder. have someone hold a
shop vac with hepa filter bag nearby to suck up the dust. the floor outlets
i've seen are recessed down a bit lower than the floor level. there are
special boxes and covers for them, but i don't think a borg will carry them.

A floor outlet is generally not a good idea because of dirt getting in the
outlet and damage to plugs and cords from feet, furniture, sweeping,
mopping, etc.. I am not aware of any specific code requirements. It
certainly is possible but I would try to avoid it if at all possible. It
is usually much easier to find a place on a vertical surface even if
getting wiring to it requires ingenuity.

there are some, i think dealing with covers for unused sockets.

Don Young
"Toller" wrote in message
...
My wife is nagging me for an outlet in the entryway. The only possible
place for it is in the ceramic tile floor. I have a lot of questions...

1) How do I do the cut out? I have a bit for my rotary tool that claimed
to be made for cutting ceramic tile. Anyone used one of these? Is is
reliable? I don't want to start something i can't finish, or shatter the
tile. It is 1/4" so i could use my router instead of the rotary tool.
Would that be a good choice? Would I crank the speed down to match a
rotary tool? How do I make the initial hole; a carbide drill?
Any other suggestions?

2) Any electrical code relevant to a floor outlet? I suppose GFCI would
be a good choice, anything else?

thanks.

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 05:34:43 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


She wants it in the corner which has the open stairway to the basement on
both sides, so there is no wall to put it into. It could be put into the
side of the stairs, but the box is thicker than the stair material so it
would look awful, and getting the cable to it would be a challenge. There
is a table over where it would go, so it is reasonably well protected on the
floor. There is acess to the floor from below.
She suggested putting it down below, actually in the top of the basement
wall and running a cord through the stairs, but the floor joists make
anything but a surface box impossible, and that would be hideous. Putting
it below the floor joists woud probably be possible, but then it would be a
good 6' from where she wants it.

All in all, it is not a good place for an outlet.

I can't really visualize this yet, so I apologize if I'm insulting
you, but what about near where you want to mount it now, but on the
side of the floor. If there are stairs, there must be a visible floor
side. Between the top and the bottom, the floor of the first floor
and the ceiling of the basement.

Or what about on its side inside the floor, accessed from the floor
side, with just a hole in the tile to run the wire through. That way
you won't have to cut a rectangle, just drill one hole. And any
water that goes through will land on the bottom of the inside of the
floor, in front of the receptacle, if you put the recpt. back from the
hole a bit. You could even run the wire through the hole and connect
the plug to the wire after it comes out the other side., to enable a
smaller hole. [other ideas] If this seems unsafe, you could line the
hole with a plastic tube glued in place, or a rubber grommet, with the
top side cut off, glued in place.


Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

"Toller" wrote in message
...
My wife is nagging me for an outlet in the entryway. The only possible
place for it is in the ceramic tile floor. I have a lot of questions...

After much hunting with a stud detector and a drill, I found an area big
enough for an electrical box about a foot below the floor on the side of the
stairs going down. It was blind on the other side, but an electrical cable
shoved down came out okay.

We have already snagged the lamp cord once, pulled the lamp down and broken
the bulb; and there are a few exploratory holes to fill, but I suppose it is
better than trying to cut it into the tile.

Speaking of exploratory holes, I have seen a stud finder advertised that
works by pushing a very fine wire in. That would have been great for this
project. Do they work, or just get bent up?

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 05:18:13 GMT, Steve Kraus
wrote:

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Yes, a floor outlet cannot be just in the floor facing up.

No but there are recessed fittings that have them facing upwards.

There are housings made for that type of application that sit on
top of the floor.

Yes, a much better solution for this situation although the whole thing may
not be such a great idea depending how close to the door we're talking. If
it's where people come in with dripping shoes, coats, and umbrellas, and
maybe snow/slush it's a very bad idea. GFI a must of course. I wonder why
the outlet can't be conventionally mounted in one of the walls. Presumably
he has access to a basement or crawlspace underneath if he's proposing a
floor outlet.

I was thinking the same thing. Thats a real bad place for a floor
outlet, and if this is in a state that gets snow, all the salt from
boots will corrode the outlet real quickly. Besides that, floor
outlets are tacky looking. Why cant you put it on the wall, or at
least in the baseboard?

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 13:19:52 -0500, mm
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 05:34:43 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


She wants it in the corner which has the open stairway to the basement on
both sides, so there is no wall to put it into. It could be put into the
side of the stairs, but the box is thicker than the stair material so it
would look awful, and getting the cable to it would be a challenge. There
is a table over where it would go, so it is reasonably well protected on the
floor. There is acess to the floor from below.
She suggested putting it down below, actually in the top of the basement
wall and running a cord through the stairs, but the floor joists make
anything but a surface box impossible, and that would be hideous. Putting
it below the floor joists woud probably be possible, but then it would be a
good 6' from where she wants it.

All in all, it is not a good place for an outlet.

I can't really visualize this yet, so I apologize if I'm insulting
you, but what about near where you want to mount it now, but on the
side of the floor. If there are stairs, there must be a visible floor
side. Between the top and the bottom, the floor of the first floor
and the ceiling of the basement.

Or what about on its side inside the floor, accessed from the floor
side, with just a hole in the tile to run the wire through. That way
you won't have to cut a rectangle, just drill one hole. And any
water that goes through will land on the bottom of the inside of the
floor, in front of the receptacle, if you put the recpt. back from the
hole a bit. You could even run the wire through the hole and connect
the plug to the wire after it comes out the other side., to enable a
smaller hole. [other ideas] If this seems unsafe, you could line the
hole with a plastic tube glued in place, or a rubber grommet, with the
top side cut off, glued in place.


Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

I can not visualize this either, but look into WIREMOLD. It can be
mounted right on the wall surface and the channel can go down thru a
tiny hole in the floor under it (about a 5/8" hole), which would be
much easier to drill thru the tile, or cut into the baseboard. At the
underside you can run romex as normal. Go to your local building
center and ask to look at Wiremold.

I have just used a very small drill bit and then a wire if needed.
Don Young
"Toller" wrote in message
...

"Toller" wrote in message
...
My wife is nagging me for an outlet in the entryway. The only possible
place for it is in the ceramic tile floor. I have a lot of questions...

After much hunting with a stud detector and a drill, I found an area big
enough for an electrical box about a foot below the floor on the side of
the stairs going down. It was blind on the other side, but an electrical
cable shoved down came out okay.

We have already snagged the lamp cord once, pulled the lamp down and
broken the bulb; and there are a few exploratory holes to fill, but I
suppose it is better than trying to cut it into the tile.

Speaking of exploratory holes, I have seen a stud finder advertised that
works by pushing a very fine wire in. That would have been great for this
project. Do they work, or just get bent up?