If have 2 feral cats in our yard which we feed and take care of.
Over the last year we actually can now touch and play with them but
they will not come in the house. They truly are wild.
This winter I would like to build them a place where they can stay
which will keep them relatively warm.
I can easily build them a small house and put a blanket in it but I
would like to insulate it and maybe add heat.
Is there any electric heating pad type of thing that I can buy to use
inside this cat house.
I want it to be safe since it will be close to my house I don't want
to start a fire.
I was thinking about those electric pipe heaters that are used to
prevent freezing but not sure if they get warm enough.
Any suggestions, electric or otherwise?

Thanks..

"Ed Hayes" wrote in message

This winter I would like to build them a place where they can stay
which will keep them relatively warm.
I can easily build them a small house and put a blanket in it but I
would like to insulate it and maybe add heat.

Proper sized door and some insulation and they will be plenty warm. Look up
the thread about heated dog houses here a while back, maybe 2 to 4 weeks
ago.

Ed Hayes wrote:
If have 2 feral cats in our yard which we feed and take care of.
Over the last year we actually can now touch and play with them but
they will not come in the house. They truly are wild.
This winter I would like to build them a place where they can stay
which will keep them relatively warm.
I can easily build them a small house and put a blanket in it but I
would like to insulate it and maybe add heat.
SNIP

Doubt you need a heater.
Had a very similar situation.
I "built" a house out of a sturdy cardboard box lying about
and glued 2" foamboard insulation to it.
Added an extra 2" on the bottom.
"Door" opening just big enough to allow cat to enter.
An old blanket on the floor inside for comfort.

Took a little while for him to trust going inside but
was warm as toast in minutes.

Jim

I bulit a box for a wild cat out of foamboard thats as good as you get
for insulation, a pipe heater is water safe and will help alot if say a
rug is put over it, you dont need much wattage maybe 20 watts since they
would sleep on it, you dont want it to warm. I got mine to go in by
putting the food in the box, but racoons came to.

"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
news
Ed Hayes wrote:
If have 2 feral cats in our yard which we feed and take care of.
Over the last year we actually can now touch and play with them but
they will not come in the house. They truly are wild.
This winter I would like to build them a place where they can stay
which will keep them relatively warm.
I can easily build them a small house and put a blanket in it but I
would like to insulate it and maybe add heat.
SNIP

Doubt you need a heater.
Had a very similar situation.
I "built" a house out of a sturdy cardboard box lying about
and glued 2" foamboard insulation to it.
Added an extra 2" on the bottom.
"Door" opening just big enough to allow cat to enter.
An old blanket on the floor inside for comfort.

Took a little while for him to trust going inside but
was warm as toast in minutes.

What he said, but make out of something a little more long-lived than
cardboard, and put a window in it so they can watch the world go buy w/o
freezing their nose.

aem sends...

Ed Hayes wrote:
If have 2 feral cats in our yard which we feed and take care of.
Over the last year we actually can now touch and play with them but
they will not come in the house. They truly are wild.
This winter I would like to build them a place where they can stay
which will keep them relatively warm.
I can easily build them a small house and put a blanket in it but I
would like to insulate it and maybe add heat.
Is there any electric heating pad type of thing that I can buy to use
inside this cat house.
I want it to be safe since it will be close to my house I don't want
to start a fire.
I was thinking about those electric pipe heaters that are used to
prevent freezing but not sure if they get warm enough.
Any suggestions, electric or otherwise?

They have their own fur coats. Nothing warmer.

A single 60-watt bulb is sufficient for about 50 baby chicks; I would think
a piddly heating pad would be ample for a cat.Further, I wouldn't cover the
entire floor with a heating pad just in case it's TOO hot.

You might consider a duplex cat-house (interior wall, two doors), just in
case the cats don't like sleeping together.

"Ed Hayes" wrote in message
...
If have 2 feral cats in our yard which we feed and take care of.
Over the last year we actually can now touch and play with them but
they will not come in the house. They truly are wild.
This winter I would like to build them a place where they can stay
which will keep them relatively warm.
I can easily build them a small house and put a blanket in it but I
would like to insulate it and maybe add heat.
Is there any electric heating pad type of thing that I can buy to use
inside this cat house.
I want it to be safe since it will be close to my house I don't want
to start a fire.
I was thinking about those electric pipe heaters that are used to
prevent freezing but not sure if they get warm enough.
Any suggestions, electric or otherwise?

Thanks..

Pet heating pads are sold. They are very low wattage and never get warm to
the touch. They do work. Our old dog loved it.

Only risk that I can think of would be if the cats chewed on the power cord.
Doubt they will do it more than once.

Colbyt

Hokay, I just gotta help out a fellow animal lover if I can.
First, let me say:
www.DrsFosterSmith.com pet supplies & stuff.
Good stuff. There are other places, but I use these guys, so ...
address was handy.

Some of these answers might have been easier if you had indicated
the kind of climate you live in. Guessing, I'd ass-u-me it's a
cold but not terribly cold climate, maybe zero on the worst days?
How much snow? How bad does it drift? You don't want them
trapped under snow where they'll suffocate. Yes, snow will
suffocate, I don't care what anyone chimes in here with.

IFF it hardly ever freezes there and you never/seldom get snow, a
nice box with some soft, fluffy rag-blankets, straw if you can
get some, makes a nice bed. Insulation's good too but NOT
fiberglass or anything like it. Plain styrofoam's not good
either. Blueboard's better.
They don't need anything else other than a place to get out
of the wind and rain. With a nice place to curl up that's dry
and not drafty, they'll be able to easily stay nice and cozy
without help.
But, if per my initial assumptions above: Please see inline:

"Ed Hayes" wrote in message
...
: If have 2 feral cats in our yard which we feed and take care
of.

Meaning you feed them? If so, you'll have to do it over the
winter if you make them a place to sleep. Else they'll sleep near
to where they eat most of the time. It's the feral way.

: Over the last year we actually can now touch and play with them
but
: they will not come in the house. They truly are wild.

Sounds like definitely third generation feral or more. You
probably already know they can be real hamgurger machines if you
do something they don't like and/or feel trapped g.

: This winter I would like to build them a place where they can
stay
: which will keep them relatively warm.

All the stuff mentioned above goes here. Plus maybe a swinging
door if you cant' be sure of keeping the wind from getting in,
and especially if you can't keep the snow and ice rain out.
Dampness and wind is much more harmful than temperature, as a
rule.

: I can easily build them a small house and put a blanket in it
but I
: would like to insulate it and maybe add heat.

Insulation; great idea. NO FIBERGLASS!! Try the 1 1/2" thick
blue-board stuff; comes in 2 x 8 foot pieces. Cuts like a dream,
easy to shape.
Consider a plexiglas window if you want them to stay inside
where they can't keep track of what's outside easily. Ferals
don't like feeling confined and not knowing where the 'enemy',
perceived or real, is. They don't usually like corners either.

: Is there any electric heating pad type of thing that I can buy
to use
: inside this cat house.

Yup: Drs Foster & Smith has just the thing for you.
Very little heat generated UNTIL they lay down on it and trap
the heat in. Low wattage, waterproof, and generally safe. In
fact, when you touch them you'd swear they're not working but if
you keep your palm against it for a minute or so it soon becomes
realy cozy feeling.
Use a GFCI though, just in case they chew the cord. Tape
the plug if you have to use an extension cord. If you don't have
GFCI outlets, you can buy little plug-in ones for extension cord
use. Got three of them msyelf.
YOu would only need to add heat if you get -really- cold
winters, and it gets under twenty degrees for long periods of
time and colder
..
: I want it to be safe since it will be close to my house I don't
want
: to start a fire.

Foster & Smith heated pads are great - we use them for sick,
injured kittens that we foster. We keep a couple layers of
cheesecloth over them to soak up the pee, water & other spillage.
Ferals will want it covered; besides, you don't want them chewing
on it and ruining it.

: I was thinking about those electric pipe heaters that are used
to
: prevent freezing but not sure if they get warm enough.
NO! NONONO! Wayyyy, too hot! Too dangerous too.
You do not have to heat the house; their own body heat will do
that as long as they have a nice cozy place to rest/sleep.

: Any suggestions, electric or otherwise?

Make the enclosure as draft proof as possible, but be careful not
to make it air tight - they must have the fresh air to create the
body heat they need. And to breath, of course g.
:
: Thanks..

HTH,

Pop

"Ed Hayes" wrote in message
...
If have 2 feral cats in our yard which we feed and take care of.
Over the last year we actually can now touch and play with them but
they will not come in the house. They truly are wild.
This winter I would like to build them a place where they can stay
which will keep them relatively warm.
I can easily build them a small house and put a blanket in it but I
would like to insulate it and maybe add heat.
Is there any electric heating pad type of thing that I can buy to use
inside this cat house.
I want it to be safe since it will be close to my house I don't want
to start a fire.
I was thinking about those electric pipe heaters that are used to
prevent freezing but not sure if they get warm enough.
Any suggestions, electric or otherwise?

Thanks..

Are you dealing with Northern Canadian winters or Florida?

I grew up in Iowa and we used 40 watt light bulbs inside of two coffee cans.
Keyless lamp holder in the center of the both the plastic lids. Smaller
coffee can punched with lots of holes and the larger one punched as well.
Got warm but not really hot. Only used it when it was below zero and the
bitches had puppies. Rest of the time a 1/4 bale of clean straw was used.
Changed every other week.

"Ed Hayes" wrote in message
...
If have 2 feral cats in our yard which we feed and take care of.
Over the last year we actually can now touch and play with them but
they will not come in the house. They truly are wild.
This winter I would like to build them a place where they can stay
which will keep them relatively warm.
I can easily build them a small house and put a blanket in it but I
would like to insulate it and maybe add heat.
Is there any electric heating pad type of thing that I can buy to
use
inside this cat house.
I want it to be safe since it will be close to my house I don't want
to start a fire.
I was thinking about those electric pipe heaters that are used to
prevent freezing but not sure if they get warm enough.
Any suggestions, electric or otherwise?

Thanks.

I just made one using an Omaha Steaks shipping box inside a Rubbermiad
container. Also used a laundry detergent container as an awning over
the entrance.

There are a lot of web sites on the subject. Almost all of them say to
NOT use a blanket (unless you plan on changing it quite often.

"Ed Hayes" wrote in message
...
If have 2 feral cats in our yard which we feed and take care of.
Over the last year we actually can now touch and play with them but
they will not come in the house. They truly are wild.
This winter I would like to build them a place where they can stay
which will keep them relatively warm.
I can easily build them a small house and put a blanket in it but I
would like to insulate it and maybe add heat.
Is there any electric heating pad type of thing that I can buy to use
inside this cat house.
I want it to be safe since it will be close to my house I don't want
to start a fire.
I was thinking about those electric pipe heaters that are used to
prevent freezing but not sure if they get warm enough.
Any suggestions, electric or otherwise?

Thanks..


Get 'em a big dog to curl up next to!

"Oscar_Lives" wrote in message
news:Csxdf.531829$x96.408357@attbi_s72...

"Ed Hayes" wrote in message
...
If have 2 feral cats in our yard which we feed and take care of.
Over the last year we actually can now touch and play with them but
they will not come in the house. They truly are wild.
This winter I would like to build them a place where they can stay
which will keep them relatively warm.
I can easily build them a small house and put a blanket in it but I
would like to insulate it and maybe add heat.
Is there any electric heating pad type of thing that I can buy to use
inside this cat house.
I want it to be safe since it will be close to my house I don't want
to start a fire.
I was thinking about those electric pipe heaters that are used to
prevent freezing but not sure if they get warm enough.
Any suggestions, electric or otherwise?

Thanks..


Get 'em a big dog to curl up next to!

Then you gotta feed the dog when its done with the cats....
bullets are only about 50 cents each.

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 02:23:30 GMT, "Oscar_Lives"
wrote:


"Ed Hayes" wrote in message
.. .
If have 2 feral cats in our yard which we feed and take care of.
Over the last year we actually can now touch and play with them but
they will not come in the house. They truly are wild.
This winter I would like to build them a place where they can stay
which will keep them relatively warm.
I can easily build them a small house and put a blanket in it but I
would like to insulate it and maybe add heat.
Is there any electric heating pad type of thing that I can buy to use
inside this cat house.
I want it to be safe since it will be close to my house I don't want
to start a fire.
I was thinking about those electric pipe heaters that are used to
prevent freezing but not sure if they get warm enough.
Any suggestions, electric or otherwise?

Pipe heater = not enough heat. 'heat pad' = not a good idea
around ferals. How about a 100 watt lightbulb ? They won't mind the
light, I don't think, and it will heat a small 'cat house' at least
well enough to be very appreciated.

Some insulation ( 2 " blueboard polystyrene is very cheap )
around the 'house' will help a lot, as will making the entrance small,
and sealing holes against wind.

If you can make a little 'barrier door' such that the entry is
shielded from wind, that would help. Just something at right angles
to the door, so to speak. If you want a little sketch of the idea,
email me.

A very rough grade of blanket - 'horse blanket', etc, or
equivalent like a couple of burlap sacks or such would be good.
Disposable would be a good idea - you're not going to want to let it
get anywhere near your washing machine.

Mine have discovered the joys of the new Sunbeam electric
blanky set on '7' , but they ain't feral :-)


Thanks..

And thank you :-)



Get 'em a big dog to curl up next to!


Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 20:35:35 -0600, "Noon-Air"
wrote:


"Oscar_Lives" wrote in message
news:Csxdf.531829$x96.408357@attbi_s72...

"Ed Hayes" wrote in message
...
If have 2 feral cats in our yard which we feed and take care of.
Over the last year we actually can now touch and play with them but
they will not come in the house. They truly are wild.
This winter I would like to build them a place where they can stay
which will keep them relatively warm.
I can easily build them a small house and put a blanket in it but I
would like to insulate it and maybe add heat.
Is there any electric heating pad type of thing that I can buy to use
inside this cat house.
I want it to be safe since it will be close to my house I don't want
to start a fire.
I was thinking about those electric pipe heaters that are used to
prevent freezing but not sure if they get warm enough.
Any suggestions, electric or otherwise?

Thanks..


Get 'em a big dog to curl up next to!

Then you gotta feed the dog when its done with the cats....
bullets are only about 50 cents each.


Pretty much what I would expect from a ****ing ingrate asshole
hack like you.

Don't remind me of the cheapness of bullets - I've already
have one suggestion to go visit you, and I make take someone up on the
next one.

And I won't have to stop at the sporting goods store on the
way down, either.


Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Then you gotta feed the dog when its done with the cats....
bullets are only about 50 cents each.


Pretty much what I would expect from a ****ing ingrate asshole
hack like you.

Don't remind me of the cheapness of bullets - I've already
have one suggestion to go visit you, and I make take someone up on the
next one.

And I won't have to stop at the sporting goods store on the
way down, either.


This is Turtle.

Hey Don't forget Me !

TURTLE

Pipe heater = not enough heat. 'heat pad' = not a good idea
around ferals. How about a 100 watt lightbulb ? They won't mind the
light, I don't think, and it will heat a small 'cat house' at least
well enough to be very appreciated.

Some insulation ( 2 " blueboard polystyrene is very cheap )
around the 'house' will help a lot, as will making the entrance small,
and sealing holes against wind.

If you can make a little 'barrier door' such that the entry is
shielded from wind, that would help. Just something at right angles
to the door, so to speak. If you want a little sketch of the idea,
email me.

A very rough grade of blanket - 'horse blanket', etc, or
equivalent like a couple of burlap sacks or such would be good.
Disposable would be a good idea - you're not going to want to let it
get anywhere near your washing machine.

Mine have discovered the joys of the new Sunbeam electric
blanky set on '7' , but they ain't feral :-)


Thanks..

And thank you :-)


This is Turtle.

Why that was nice to tell that fellow how to keep his Pusseys Warm !
Now what about the Bull Dog that was to stay with the Pusseys ?

TURTLE

"Ed Hayes" wrote in message

If have 2 feral cats in our yard which we feed and take care of.

If you can capture them (in, say, a racoon trap) then the best favor
you can do them is to take them (while still in the cage) to a vet.
The vet can put the entire cage in a box with anestetic gas (to knock
them out without having to handle them). Then they can spay/neuter
the cats, give them shots (vaccines, rabbies, etc).

It will be easier to catch them in a cage when it gets colder and they
get more desperate for food.

Spend $150 on them. You'll never do better for them if you do that.
The diseases they can get are horrible and the remedy is simple. If
one (or both) are female, then they'll never get pregnant, and you'll
be reducing the cat population (and you'll be reducing the chances
that they'll develop cancer later). If one (or both) are male, you'll
again help to keep the population down, plus reduce their desire to
fight other cats or become terratorial. Usually, once they are
neutered, they will be more likely to be friendly with you. But it
does depend on how old they are. The sooner you spay/neuter them, the
better.

This winter I would like to build them a place where they can stay
which will keep them relatively warm.

A well insulated shelter should be all they need. You need to create
a space that will be kept dry, and have a small entry/exit portal (ie
wind-proof). Most important - they need to accept it. You'll never
be able to force them to use it. It can't be anywhere where there's
lots of people-traffic.

I don't know if it's worth the effort to create a space for them to
sleep and wait-out the winter vs creating an enclosure for placing
food. You will find that just keeping water and soft-food from
freezing solid will be a challenge. I've messed around with several
different heated bowls in an enclosure the past few winters to come up
with something that works.

We've turned several ferral cats into the most tame, lovable house
cats you could imagine. Once they come home from the vet, we keep
them in a room for several weeks to get used to people. They still
like to be indoor/outdoor cats, so a cat-door is all they need.

A very rough grade of blanket - 'horse blanket', etc, or
equivalent like a couple of burlap sacks or such would be good.
Disposable would be a good idea - you're not going to want to let it
get anywhere near your washing machine.

Mine have discovered the joys of the new Sunbeam electric
blanky set on '7' , but they ain't feral :-)

We have a 'shop cat' that just loves my Carhartt jacket, it seems. He's
been fixed and taken care of otherwise. I find the damn thing in my
office chair snuggled up more and more these days... perhaps he's
getting older.

He used to like our server room a lot. That big 'ole netserver is plenty
warm year-round.

Get them out of the wind and they'll be fine... a heat lamp might be a
good idea, too... although I dunno how comfortable they'd be with the light.

Jake

/

Simple heating pad, bought at Walmart works fine...

K & H makes heaters specifically designed for what you want:
http://www.khmfg.com/products/heatedDogBeds.htm

We bought the cat version (just a smaller version) and I'm impressed with
the construction and build quality. Their products are available online,
but my wife found one at a local pet store. The cat version uses the
equivalent of a 40-watt bulb, so we just plugged it in for the winter and
will unplug it in spring. Cord is covered in a metal spring to prevent
chewing.


"Ed Hayes" wrote in message
...
If have 2 feral cats in our yard which we feed and take care of.
Over the last year we actually can now touch and play with them but
they will not come in the house. They truly are wild.
This winter I would like to build them a place where they can stay
which will keep them relatively warm.
I can easily build them a small house and put a blanket in it but I
would like to insulate it and maybe add heat.
Is there any electric heating pad type of thing that I can buy to use
inside this cat house.
I want it to be safe since it will be close to my house I don't want
to start a fire.
I was thinking about those electric pipe heaters that are used to
prevent freezing but not sure if they get warm enough.
Any suggestions, electric or otherwise?

Thanks..

Here's the cat version:

http://www.khmfg.com/products/cats/kittyPad.htm


"Unrevealed Source" wrote in message
...
K & H makes heaters specifically designed for what you want:
http://www.khmfg.com/products/heatedDogBeds.htm

We bought the cat version (just a smaller version) and I'm impressed with
the construction and build quality. Their products are available online,
but my wife found one at a local pet store. The cat version uses the
equivalent of a 40-watt bulb, so we just plugged it in for the winter and
will unplug it in spring. Cord is covered in a metal spring to prevent
chewing.


"Ed Hayes" wrote in message
...
If have 2 feral cats in our yard which we feed and take care of.
Over the last year we actually can now touch and play with them but
they will not come in the house. They truly are wild.
This winter I would like to build them a place where they can stay
which will keep them relatively warm.
I can easily build them a small house and put a blanket in it but I
would like to insulate it and maybe add heat.
Is there any electric heating pad type of thing that I can buy to use
inside this cat house.
I want it to be safe since it will be close to my house I don't want
to start a fire.
I was thinking about those electric pipe heaters that are used to
prevent freezing but not sure if they get warm enough.
Any suggestions, electric or otherwise?

Thanks..

Ed Hayes wrote in
:

snipped for length
Seems to me that the cats have a place already that they are used to??? I
hear this all the time when someone (usually my wife) says, 'the poor
insert animal here is going to freeze to death' yes, and without mans
intervention all wild things cannot survive.
So...why not give them a place to be comfortable in, in between sleeping
and eating everything that moves in your general area.

"nevermind" wrote
Seems to me that the cats have a place already that they are used to??? I
hear this all the time when someone (usually my wife) says, 'the poor
insert animal here is going to freeze to death' yes, and without mans
intervention all wild things cannot survive.

You start out talking about domestic cats and then finish up with wild cats.
They're different.

So...why not give them a place to be comfortable in, in between sleeping
and eating everything that moves in your general area.

A domestic cat does that?

Lots of great suggestions.
An Idea for "Windproof" door:
take two pieces of blanket.
Attach first blanket at top, bottom, and right side of opening.
Attach second blanket at top, bottom, and left side of opening.
might take the cat a little to get used to pushing through but i think
it will keep out the drafts. Place the outside open side downwind of
the prevailing winds. Should keep out the drafts pretty well i think.

I like Nicks idea of the door opening being lower than the floor.
Dig the trough now, before the ground freezes.

For heat, I think the idea of the lightbulb is good... and using the
240W bulb in a 120 fixture is really good. (just don't do it the other
way around. Can be put on a timer and only used when it's *really*
cold.

Windows... plastic taped on either side of the insulation (leaving an
air gap for insulation).

Insulation:
Is there a particular reason folks are shouting "stay away from
fiberglass!"? I understand "bats" , but I think the foil backed
"pressed" fiberglass sheets might be good in this application... as
might foil backed foamboard. (if my understanding of the radiant
properties is correct.)

Ground insulation is a *great* idea. (as anyone who's slept on bare
ground can attest... the earth can suck the hear right out of you.)

Of course, the biggest trick is going to be getting the cats to accept
this Taj Mahal.... good luck!

--
be safe.
flip
Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+")

Philip Lewis wrote:

I like Nicks idea of the door opening being lower than the floor.
Dig the trough now, before the ground freezes.

Or put the house up on blocks. Cats can climb.

Nick

"TURTLE" wrote in message
oups.com...

Then you gotta feed the dog when its done with the cats....
bullets are only about 50 cents each.


Pretty much what I would expect from a ****ing ingrate asshole
hack like you.

umm.....yeah, ok....whatever

Don't remind me of the cheapness of bullets - I've already
have one suggestion to go visit you, and I make take someone up on the
next one.

We already have too many ignorant tourists and transplants here, we don't
need any more, but thanx for the offer.

And I won't have to stop at the sporting goods store on the
way down, either.

They don't need software there.

This is Turtle.

Hey Don't forget Me !

TURTLE

"Jake" wrote in message
news:IWzdf.569425$xm3.219665@attbi_s21...

(snip)

He used to like our server room a lot. That big 'ole netserver is plenty
warm year-round.

A cat in the machine room? Shudder. The gray/brown moss I find inside the
warehouse machines is bad enough, but a cooling fan full of cat hair?

aem sends...

ameijers posted for all of us...
I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.


"Jake" wrote in message
news:IWzdf.569425$xm3.219665@attbi_s21...

(snip)

He used to like our server room a lot. That big 'ole netserver is plenty
warm year-round.

A cat in the machine room? Shudder. The gray/brown moss I find inside the
warehouse machines is bad enough, but a cooling fan full of cat hair?

aem sends...


It ain't so much the fan. It's the heatsink under the fan. Look for "Thermal
Event" in the machine log.
--
My boss said I was dumb and apathetic.
I said I don't know and I don't care...

Tekkie

"Don" wrote in
ink.net:

snip

You start out talking about domestic cats and then finish up with wild
cats. They're different.

The OP was talking about 'feral' cats, is that not a domwstic gone wild?


So...why not give them a place to be comfortable in, in between
sleeping and eating everything that moves in your general area.

A domestic cat does that?

You really know anything about cats?, Yes, They will clean up their food in
the dish and go find anything moving and kill it.
The best mousers are said to be a well fed cat.
I have two that will eat moths and flies, they've learned about toads, but
frogs are a delicacy to them.

In article , nevermind dontsend@here
wrote:

- "Don" wrote in
- ink.net:
-
- snip
-
- You start out talking about domestic cats and then finish up with wild
- cats. They're different.
-
- The OP was talking about 'feral' cats, is that not a domwstic gone wild?

Feral cats are born of strays and have had no human contact
to "domesticate" them. (Until some kind human intervenes and
does whatever it takes to "tame" them.)
--
8^)~~~ Sue (remove the x to e-mail)
~~~~~~
"I reserve the absolute right to be smarter
today than I was yesterday." -Adlai Stevenson

http://www.suzanne-eckhardt.com/
http://www.intergnat.com/malebashing/
http://www.intergnat.com/pussygames/

Ed Hayes, 11/12/2005, 6:35:18 PM,
wrote:

If have 2 feral cats in our yard which we feed and take care of.
Over the last year we actually can now touch and play with them but
they will not come in the house. They truly are wild.
This winter I would like to build them a place where they can stay
which will keep them relatively warm.
I can easily build them a small house and put a blanket in it but I
would like to insulate it and maybe add heat.
Is there any electric heating pad type of thing that I can buy to use
inside this cat house.
I want it to be safe since it will be close to my house I don't want
to start a fire.
I was thinking about those electric pipe heaters that are used to
prevent freezing but not sure if they get warm enough.
Any suggestions, electric or otherwise?

Thanks..

In my opinion your whole idea about making the feral cats comfortable
on your property is a bad idea. They will begin to associate your
property as a place to hang out all the time now and pretty soon more
cats will start to show up. You will be listening to cats fighting at
night and soon smelling cat spray on your outside walls. If you like
the sound of birds in the morning or watching other wildlife that will
soon dissapear also. Do yourself a favor and start chasing them away.
They are outdoor cats and are fully capable of staying warm when the
weather is cold.

--
"You've just one problem. You stand too close to the ball after you've
hit it." -- Sam Snead

"Suzie-Q" wrote in message
...
: In article , nevermind
dontsend@here
: wrote:
:
: - "Don" wrote in
: - ink.net:
: -
: - snip
: -
: - You start out talking about domestic cats and then finish
up with wild
: - cats. They're different.
: -
: - The OP was talking about 'feral' cats, is that not a
domwstic gone wild?
:
: Feral cats are born of strays and have had no human contact
: to "domesticate" them.
That creates the "first generation" ferals. Often they can still
be recovered and can make a decent pet. They're "broke" but
still capable of loving and appreciating people if properly
treated.

(Until some kind human intervenes and
: does whatever it takes to "tame" them.)
Second and third generations may or may not be able to be
"tamed". By the 4th and succeeding generation they are usually
impossible to recover. Once a feral community becomes
entrenched, the only way to get rid of them is to catch them and
put them to sleep, or, as we do around here, feed them birth
control. Since a feral cat has a life span of about 6 to 10
years though, it takes awhile to pare the community down that
way.
Feral cats can make good mousers on a farm some say, but they
will quickly over-run a farm if they entrench. And of course
they contain a lot of diseases and are murder on other pets and
animals. Entrenched ferals will fight to the death as a rule.

Sad, but true, unfortunately. Support your local SPCA.

That's just silly. First, how do you know what generation you are dealing
with? These cats are wild and difficult to observe, let alone their
litters.

Second, this presumes that behavior is genetic. If this was the case, then
no wild animal could be successfully domesticated. Yet people successfully
rescue infant animals of all species and keep them as pets.

The key is catching them young, very young, like at birth. I have the
kitten of a feral cat sitting in front of me right as I speak. Her mother
is, after 12 years, still afraid of me but she knows where "home" is and
comes in when she eats and sleeps. The kittens couldn't be more loving.
They were handled from birth, and whereas they don't know their "birth
mother" is even related to them, they are very bonded to me!

Trap neuter and release is the option, NOT euthanasia. Remember what
happened in the bubonic plague, when cats were eliminated? Perhaps it is
feral cats that will "save" us from the avian flu!

"Pop" wrote in message
news

"Suzie-Q" wrote in message
...
: In article , nevermind
dontsend@here
: wrote:
:
: - "Don" wrote in
: - ink.net:
: -
: - snip
: -
: - You start out talking about domestic cats and then finish
up with wild
: - cats. They're different.
: -
: - The OP was talking about 'feral' cats, is that not a
domwstic gone wild?
:
: Feral cats are born of strays and have had no human contact
: to "domesticate" them.
That creates the "first generation" ferals. Often they can still
be recovered and can make a decent pet. They're "broke" but
still capable of loving and appreciating people if properly
treated.

(Until some kind human intervenes and
: does whatever it takes to "tame" them.)
Second and third generations may or may not be able to be
"tamed". By the 4th and succeeding generation they are usually
impossible to recover. Once a feral community becomes
entrenched, the only way to get rid of them is to catch them and
put them to sleep, or, as we do around here, feed them birth
control. Since a feral cat has a life span of about 6 to 10
years though, it takes awhile to pare the community down that
way.
Feral cats can make good mousers on a farm some say, but they
will quickly over-run a farm if they entrench. And of course
they contain a lot of diseases and are murder on other pets and
animals. Entrenched ferals will fight to the death as a rule.

Sad, but true, unfortunately. Support your local SPCA.

Woof, I know I should just move on, but the temptation to respond
is just too strong. I'm sure you're a good person and probably
an animal lover Betsy, but you're going on some personal
experiences and anecdotes that aren't necessarily the "norm" to
put it gently.

: That's just silly. First, how do you know what generation you
are dealing
: with? These cats are wild and difficult to observe, let alone
their
: litters.

Easy. Gestation period and length of time the feral community
has existed. Beyond two years and you have a well established
feral community. Beyond observation it's only a guess but it is
still easy to spot the first and second generation animals by
their mannerisms and responses to various things, including
humans.

:
: Second, this presumes that behavior is genetic. If this was
the case, then
: no wild animal could be successfully domesticated. Yet people
successfully
: rescue infant animals of all species and keep them as pets.
Of course it's genetic! No animal can be truly domesticated;
it's called nature's way. Any cat, domestic or not, if healthy
knows about chasing and eating prey, for instance. It doesn't
need to be taught; it's inherent. Being taught helps, but that's
not all it takes.

:
: The key is catching them young, very young, like at birth. I
have the
: kitten of a feral cat sitting in front of me right as I speak.
We have three feral cats in our home. Two came as week-old
kittens, the third was a rescue from a restaurant grease trap a
few winters back. We bottle-fed and raised the kittens to
adulthood. They came at different times; one was found dying,
laying in a water puddle, the other one has 4 different length
legs; lost three them to freezing. Only one "full" leg complete
with foot toes and claws; other three are varying lengths.

Her mother
: is, after 12 years, still afraid of me but she knows where
"home" is and
: comes in when she eats and sleeps.
These are house-cats now; they do not roam. And except for the
one with the legs problems, the youngest, do not want to. Has
nothing to do with anything though.

The kittens couldn't be more loving.
Same here, when they were kittens. But don't surprise or somehow
scare any one of them or you may not see them for days on end.
Many people confuse "love" with "dependence" and an appreciation
of comfort. Just because you are teaching kittens doesn't mean
their instincts are stunted, or gone. It means their bellies are
full enough and they have the comfort they want; they're not
wanting for very much. But if they're from a feral community,
they are still feral.
BTW, you DO undterstand what feral means, right? If not, I
would advise you to look it up. It doesn't just mean a stray or
abandoned cat. Feral cats can almost never be completely
redeemed as a housecat.

: They were handled from birth, and whereas they don't know their
"birth
: mother" is even related to them, they are very bonded to me!
They probably are, and that's great. But, that bond is nature's
doing, not yours. If they were feral, they are still feral.
That's not necessarily bad as long as they don't start spraying,
copulating, things like that. Our third one, Phoebe, was spayed
several years ago and still loves to "have a go" at Major Buzzer,
the oldest Tom in our house.

We do animal fostering for the local SPCA and anyone else that
needs it, so we have had lots of kittens around and we go thru a
fortune in the formula for the kittens, but it's all worth it.
We also "judge" kittens, to see if they're worth trying to
save. Some ferals, if you push them too hard, even as kittens,
will force themselves into live failure, stop eating and drinking
and wait to die. No matter how much you love or care for them,
they are not going to imprint on you, especially if they are well
into the generation counts. It's a complete return to nature.
Feral cats will have worms, fleas, upper respiratory problems,
live and kidney problems, and all kinds of things that are
heartbreaking to see. But that's called nature, instinct, things
like that. And that doesn't count feline hepatitus, HIV, FIP and
all the rest of it. The right feral cat could kill off every cat
in your home.
It's a very bad idea to mess with feral cats unless you know
what you're doing to some degree and have support resources at
hand. There is good reason ferals are not caged/kept with
"normal" companion animals in shelters and such.
:
: Trap neuter and release is the option, NOT euthanasia.
Then I hope you're donating to lots to lots of Shelters working
on the feral problems. If not, you're being hypocritical here.

Remember what
: happened in the bubonic plague, when cats were eliminated?
Perhaps it is
: feral cats that will "save" us from the avian flu!

No, I don't; wasn't alive then, but I have read about it.
Remember it's YOU brought up the annihilation of every cat in the
world, not anyone else. You sound like one of those people who,
rather than save to euthanize that poor kitten we found frozen
into the puddle one morning on the street, would have instead
have let her lay there and suffer? It had a body temp of 94
degrees when it got to the Shelter, and lived 24 hours, so we
took it to assess it and see if it was salvageable. It was and
is still with us and hopefully will be for a long time. But no
one else would have taken it; it had gone into liver and kidney
shutdown and couldn't/wouldn't eat or drink; what would YOU have
done with it? Let it continue its slow death and misery right
to the end? It would have taken at least another three days.
That scenario and ones like it happen over and over every day at
Shelters all over the world.
There are a LOT more of them around than people who will make
life bearable for them. Which group do YOU belong to? How many
will you go out and help? How many have you helped? Or is the
two you have enough and you've "done your duty, let someone else
do it now"?

Regards,

Pop
---

Yes, I know what feral means, and I still totally disagree with you.

All of my cats are rescues, and most of them are from my old neighborhood.
And Mama Cat is definitely feral, and her kittens couldn't be more
dependent. And then there is Melon, who before neutering attacked me and
now is quite loving. NO, she doesn't like to be held, but she too is an
inbred feral.

I've rescued many cats given away, and kept many. Currently I have 11.

And I've also rescued many wild animals.

You seem to have some kind of unfounded belief that behavior is passed on
genetically. Wild behavior is passed on by imprinting, no matter what
"generation".

"Pop" wrote in message
et...
Woof, I know I should just move on, but the temptation to respond
is just too strong. I'm sure you're a good person and probably
an animal lover Betsy, but you're going on some personal
experiences and anecdotes that aren't necessarily the "norm" to
put it gently.

: That's just silly. First, how do you know what generation you
are dealing
: with? These cats are wild and difficult to observe, let alone
their
: litters.

Easy. Gestation period and length of time the feral community
has existed. Beyond two years and you have a well established
feral community. Beyond observation it's only a guess but it is
still easy to spot the first and second generation animals by
their mannerisms and responses to various things, including
humans.

:
: Second, this presumes that behavior is genetic. If this was
the case, then
: no wild animal could be successfully domesticated. Yet people
successfully
: rescue infant animals of all species and keep them as pets.
Of course it's genetic! No animal can be truly domesticated;
it's called nature's way. Any cat, domestic or not, if healthy
knows about chasing and eating prey, for instance. It doesn't
need to be taught; it's inherent. Being taught helps, but that's
not all it takes.

:
: The key is catching them young, very young, like at birth. I
have the
: kitten of a feral cat sitting in front of me right as I speak.
We have three feral cats in our home. Two came as week-old
kittens, the third was a rescue from a restaurant grease trap a
few winters back. We bottle-fed and raised the kittens to
adulthood. They came at different times; one was found dying,
laying in a water puddle, the other one has 4 different length
legs; lost three them to freezing. Only one "full" leg complete
with foot toes and claws; other three are varying lengths.

Her mother
: is, after 12 years, still afraid of me but she knows where
"home" is and
: comes in when she eats and sleeps.
These are house-cats now; they do not roam. And except for the
one with the legs problems, the youngest, do not want to. Has
nothing to do with anything though.

The kittens couldn't be more loving.
Same here, when they were kittens. But don't surprise or somehow
scare any one of them or you may not see them for days on end.
Many people confuse "love" with "dependence" and an appreciation
of comfort. Just because you are teaching kittens doesn't mean
their instincts are stunted, or gone. It means their bellies are
full enough and they have the comfort they want; they're not
wanting for very much. But if they're from a feral community,
they are still feral.
BTW, you DO undterstand what feral means, right? If not, I
would advise you to look it up. It doesn't just mean a stray or
abandoned cat. Feral cats can almost never be completely
redeemed as a housecat.

: They were handled from birth, and whereas they don't know their
"birth
: mother" is even related to them, they are very bonded to me!
They probably are, and that's great. But, that bond is nature's
doing, not yours. If they were feral, they are still feral.
That's not necessarily bad as long as they don't start spraying,
copulating, things like that. Our third one, Phoebe, was spayed
several years ago and still loves to "have a go" at Major Buzzer,
the oldest Tom in our house.

We do animal fostering for the local SPCA and anyone else that
needs it, so we have had lots of kittens around and we go thru a
fortune in the formula for the kittens, but it's all worth it.
We also "judge" kittens, to see if they're worth trying to
save. Some ferals, if you push them too hard, even as kittens,
will force themselves into live failure, stop eating and drinking
and wait to die. No matter how much you love or care for them,
they are not going to imprint on you, especially if they are well
into the generation counts. It's a complete return to nature.
Feral cats will have worms, fleas, upper respiratory problems,
live and kidney problems, and all kinds of things that are
heartbreaking to see. But that's called nature, instinct, things
like that. And that doesn't count feline hepatitus, HIV, FIP and
all the rest of it. The right feral cat could kill off every cat
in your home.
It's a very bad idea to mess with feral cats unless you know
what you're doing to some degree and have support resources at
hand. There is good reason ferals are not caged/kept with
"normal" companion animals in shelters and such.
:
: Trap neuter and release is the option, NOT euthanasia.
Then I hope you're donating to lots to lots of Shelters working
on the feral problems. If not, you're being hypocritical here.

Remember what
: happened in the bubonic plague, when cats were eliminated?
Perhaps it is
: feral cats that will "save" us from the avian flu!

No, I don't; wasn't alive then, but I have read about it.
Remember it's YOU brought up the annihilation of every cat in the
world, not anyone else. You sound like one of those people who,
rather than save to euthanize that poor kitten we found frozen
into the puddle one morning on the street, would have instead
have let her lay there and suffer? It had a body temp of 94
degrees when it got to the Shelter, and lived 24 hours, so we
took it to assess it and see if it was salvageable. It was and
is still with us and hopefully will be for a long time. But no
one else would have taken it; it had gone into liver and kidney
shutdown and couldn't/wouldn't eat or drink; what would YOU have
done with it? Let it continue its slow death and misery right
to the end? It would have taken at least another three days.
That scenario and ones like it happen over and over every day at
Shelters all over the world.
There are a LOT more of them around than people who will make
life bearable for them. Which group do YOU belong to? How many
will you go out and help? How many have you helped? Or is the
two you have enough and you've "done your duty, let someone else
do it now"?

Regards,

Pop
---

Your'e a hoot, you really are! Color the world whatever color
you want to, it still doesn't make it true. Not gonna bother
with you anymore - you're a closed mind without consideration for
facts and so not worth further chatting/discussing anything.

Cheers,

Pop


"Betsy" wrote in message
...
: Yes, I know what feral means, and I still totally disagree with
you.
:
: All of my cats are rescues, and most of them are from my old
neighborhood.
: And Mama Cat is definitely feral, and her kittens couldn't be
more
: dependent. And then there is Melon, who before neutering
attacked me and
: now is quite loving. NO, she doesn't like to be held, but she
too is an
: inbred feral.
:
: I've rescued many cats given away, and kept many. Currently I
have 11.
:
: And I've also rescued many wild animals.
:
: You seem to have some kind of unfounded belief that behavior is
passed on
: genetically. Wild behavior is passed on by imprinting, no
matter what
: "generation".
:
: "Pop" wrote in message
: et...
: Woof, I know I should just move on, but the temptation to
respond
: is just too strong. I'm sure you're a good person and
probably
: an animal lover Betsy, but you're going on some personal
: experiences and anecdotes that aren't necessarily the "norm"
to
: put it gently.
:
: : That's just silly. First, how do you know what generation
you
: are dealing
: : with? These cats are wild and difficult to observe, let
alone
: their
: : litters.
:
: Easy. Gestation period and length of time the feral
community
: has existed. Beyond two years and you have a well
established
: feral community. Beyond observation it's only a guess but it
is
: still easy to spot the first and second generation animals by
: their mannerisms and responses to various things, including
: humans.
:
: :
: : Second, this presumes that behavior is genetic. If this
was
: the case, then
: : no wild animal could be successfully domesticated. Yet
people
: successfully
: : rescue infant animals of all species and keep them as pets.
: Of course it's genetic! No animal can be truly domesticated;
: it's called nature's way. Any cat, domestic or not, if
healthy
: knows about chasing and eating prey, for instance. It
doesn't
: need to be taught; it's inherent. Being taught helps, but
that's
: not all it takes.
:
: :
: : The key is catching them young, very young, like at birth.
I
: have the
: : kitten of a feral cat sitting in front of me right as I
speak.
: We have three feral cats in our home. Two came as week-old
: kittens, the third was a rescue from a restaurant grease trap
a
: few winters back. We bottle-fed and raised the kittens to
: adulthood. They came at different times; one was found
dying,
: laying in a water puddle, the other one has 4 different
length
: legs; lost three them to freezing. Only one "full" leg
complete
: with foot toes and claws; other three are varying lengths.
:
: Her mother
: : is, after 12 years, still afraid of me but she knows where
: "home" is and
: : comes in when she eats and sleeps.
: These are house-cats now; they do not roam. And except for
the
: one with the legs problems, the youngest, do not want to.
Has
: nothing to do with anything though.
:
: The kittens couldn't be more loving.
: Same here, when they were kittens. But don't surprise or
somehow
: scare any one of them or you may not see them for days on
end.
: Many people confuse "love" with "dependence" and an
appreciation
: of comfort. Just because you are teaching kittens doesn't
mean
: their instincts are stunted, or gone. It means their bellies
are
: full enough and they have the comfort they want; they're not
: wanting for very much. But if they're from a feral
community,
: they are still feral.
: BTW, you DO undterstand what feral means, right? If not, I
: would advise you to look it up. It doesn't just mean a stray
or
: abandoned cat. Feral cats can almost never be completely
: redeemed as a housecat.
:
: : They were handled from birth, and whereas they don't know
their
: "birth
: : mother" is even related to them, they are very bonded to
me!
: They probably are, and that's great. But, that bond is
nature's
: doing, not yours. If they were feral, they are still feral.
: That's not necessarily bad as long as they don't start
spraying,
: copulating, things like that. Our third one, Phoebe, was
spayed
: several years ago and still loves to "have a go" at Major
Buzzer,
: the oldest Tom in our house.
:
: We do animal fostering for the local SPCA and anyone else
that
: needs it, so we have had lots of kittens around and we go
thru a
: fortune in the formula for the kittens, but it's all worth
it.
: We also "judge" kittens, to see if they're worth trying to
: save. Some ferals, if you push them too hard, even as
kittens,
: will force themselves into live failure, stop eating and
drinking
: and wait to die. No matter how much you love or care for
them,
: they are not going to imprint on you, especially if they are
well
: into the generation counts. It's a complete return to
nature.
: Feral cats will have worms, fleas, upper respiratory
problems,
: live and kidney problems, and all kinds of things that are
: heartbreaking to see. But that's called nature, instinct,
things
: like that. And that doesn't count feline hepatitus, HIV, FIP
and
: all the rest of it. The right feral cat could kill off every
cat
: in your home.
: It's a very bad idea to mess with feral cats unless you
know
: what you're doing to some degree and have support resources
at
: hand. There is good reason ferals are not caged/kept with
: "normal" companion animals in shelters and such.
: :
: : Trap neuter and release is the option, NOT euthanasia.
: Then I hope you're donating to lots to lots of Shelters
working
: on the feral problems. If not, you're being hypocritical
here.
:
: Remember what
: : happened in the bubonic plague, when cats were eliminated?
: Perhaps it is
: : feral cats that will "save" us from the avian flu!
:
: No, I don't; wasn't alive then, but I have read about it.
: Remember it's YOU brought up the annihilation of every cat in
the
: world, not anyone else. You sound like one of those people
who,
: rather than save to euthanize that poor kitten we found
frozen
: into the puddle one morning on the street, would have instead
: have let her lay there and suffer? It had a body temp of 94
: degrees when it got to the Shelter, and lived 24 hours, so we
: took it to assess it and see if it was salvageable. It was
and
: is still with us and hopefully will be for a long time. But
no
: one else would have taken it; it had gone into liver and
kidney
: shutdown and couldn't/wouldn't eat or drink; what would YOU
have
: done with it? Let it continue its slow death and misery
right
: to the end? It would have taken at least another three days.
: That scenario and ones like it happen over and over every day
at
: Shelters all over the world.
: There are a LOT more of them around than people who will
make
: life bearable for them. Which group do YOU belong to? How
many
: will you go out and help? How many have you helped? Or is
the
: two you have enough and you've "done your duty, let someone
else
: do it now"?
:
: Regards,
:
: Pop
: ---
:
:
:
:

"Betsy" wrote in :
snipped
Her
mother is, after 12 years, still afraid of me but she knows where
"home" is and comes in when she eats and sleeps.

Yeah, eats cat food at home but spends the rest of the time killing off the
competition.

Trap neuter and release is the option, NOT euthanasia. Remember what
happened in the bubonic plague, when cats were eliminated? Perhaps it
is feral cats that will "save" us from the avian flu!

Because there are no birds left in your neck of the woods. No thanks, I
tend to enjoy watching the birds at the feeder.

"nevermind" wrote
You really know anything about cats?

A little, we presently have 6.
Amazing what people throw away.

Don wrote:
"nevermind" wrote

You really know anything about cats?


A little, we presently have 6.
Amazing what people throw away.


I made up a heater for our dog house based on what I remember my
grandfather doing on his farm. Dog house is insulated and with a flap
door installed.

Took a light base that normally a glass globe attaches (large)
Metal can (long, food comes in, juice, etc) with small vent holes punch
around the outside. installed a small screen around the can to prevent
curious burnt noses, although installed in the top of the dog house
which they never bother.
100 what light installed with can installed into the globe base, srcews
that originally held the globe hold the can in place.

I had a hard time getting the right size can to fit, I suspect that
could make a metal shroud out of some metal flashing or whatever.

My grandfather always used metal, he said radiated heat well.

Anyway my little setup works great, have on a thermostat to turn off
during the day when temps get warm.

On Saturday, November 12, 2005 at 6:35:18 PM UTC-5, Ed Hayes wrote:
If have 2 feral cats in our yard which we feed and take care of.
Over the last year we actually can now touch and play with them but
they will not come in the house. They truly are wild.
This winter I would like to build them a place where they can stay
which will keep them relatively warm.
I can easily build them a small house and put a blanket in it but I
would like to insulate it and maybe add heat.
Is there any electric heating pad type of thing that I can buy to use
inside this cat house.
I want it to be safe since it will be close to my house I don't want
to start a fire.
I was thinking about those electric pipe heaters that are used to
prevent freezing but not sure if they get warm enough.
Any suggestions, electric or otherwise?

Thanks..

I was using off-the shelf K&H and Cat House Space Heater 65W from eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/14295467363...m1555.l2649