Your'e a hoot, you really are! Color the world whatever color
you want to, it still doesn't make it true. Not gonna bother
with you anymore - you're a closed mind without consideration for
facts and so not worth further chatting/discussing anything.

Cheers,

Pop


"Betsy" wrote in message
...
: Yes, I know what feral means, and I still totally disagree with
you.
:
: All of my cats are rescues, and most of them are from my old
neighborhood.
: And Mama Cat is definitely feral, and her kittens couldn't be
more
: dependent. And then there is Melon, who before neutering
attacked me and
: now is quite loving. NO, she doesn't like to be held, but she
too is an
: inbred feral.
:
: I've rescued many cats given away, and kept many. Currently I
have 11.
:
: And I've also rescued many wild animals.
:
: You seem to have some kind of unfounded belief that behavior is
passed on
: genetically. Wild behavior is passed on by imprinting, no
matter what
: "generation".
:
: "Pop" wrote in message
: et...
: Woof, I know I should just move on, but the temptation to
respond
: is just too strong. I'm sure you're a good person and
probably
: an animal lover Betsy, but you're going on some personal
: experiences and anecdotes that aren't necessarily the "norm"
to
: put it gently.
:
: : That's just silly. First, how do you know what generation
you
: are dealing
: : with? These cats are wild and difficult to observe, let
alone
: their
: : litters.
:
: Easy. Gestation period and length of time the feral
community
: has existed. Beyond two years and you have a well
established
: feral community. Beyond observation it's only a guess but it
is
: still easy to spot the first and second generation animals by
: their mannerisms and responses to various things, including
: humans.
:
: :
: : Second, this presumes that behavior is genetic. If this
was
: the case, then
: : no wild animal could be successfully domesticated. Yet
people
: successfully
: : rescue infant animals of all species and keep them as pets.
: Of course it's genetic! No animal can be truly domesticated;
: it's called nature's way. Any cat, domestic or not, if
healthy
: knows about chasing and eating prey, for instance. It
doesn't
: need to be taught; it's inherent. Being taught helps, but
that's
: not all it takes.
:
: :
: : The key is catching them young, very young, like at birth.
I
: have the
: : kitten of a feral cat sitting in front of me right as I
speak.
: We have three feral cats in our home. Two came as week-old
: kittens, the third was a rescue from a restaurant grease trap
a
: few winters back. We bottle-fed and raised the kittens to
: adulthood. They came at different times; one was found
dying,
: laying in a water puddle, the other one has 4 different
length
: legs; lost three them to freezing. Only one "full" leg
complete
: with foot toes and claws; other three are varying lengths.
:
: Her mother
: : is, after 12 years, still afraid of me but she knows where
: "home" is and
: : comes in when she eats and sleeps.
: These are house-cats now; they do not roam. And except for
the
: one with the legs problems, the youngest, do not want to.
Has
: nothing to do with anything though.
:
: The kittens couldn't be more loving.
: Same here, when they were kittens. But don't surprise or
somehow
: scare any one of them or you may not see them for days on
end.
: Many people confuse "love" with "dependence" and an
appreciation
: of comfort. Just because you are teaching kittens doesn't
mean
: their instincts are stunted, or gone. It means their bellies
are
: full enough and they have the comfort they want; they're not
: wanting for very much. But if they're from a feral
community,
: they are still feral.
: BTW, you DO undterstand what feral means, right? If not, I
: would advise you to look it up. It doesn't just mean a stray
or
: abandoned cat. Feral cats can almost never be completely
: redeemed as a housecat.
:
: : They were handled from birth, and whereas they don't know
their
: "birth
: : mother" is even related to them, they are very bonded to
me!
: They probably are, and that's great. But, that bond is
nature's
: doing, not yours. If they were feral, they are still feral.
: That's not necessarily bad as long as they don't start
spraying,
: copulating, things like that. Our third one, Phoebe, was
spayed
: several years ago and still loves to "have a go" at Major
Buzzer,
: the oldest Tom in our house.
:
: We do animal fostering for the local SPCA and anyone else
that
: needs it, so we have had lots of kittens around and we go
thru a
: fortune in the formula for the kittens, but it's all worth
it.
: We also "judge" kittens, to see if they're worth trying to
: save. Some ferals, if you push them too hard, even as
kittens,
: will force themselves into live failure, stop eating and
drinking
: and wait to die. No matter how much you love or care for
them,
: they are not going to imprint on you, especially if they are
well
: into the generation counts. It's a complete return to
nature.
: Feral cats will have worms, fleas, upper respiratory
problems,
: live and kidney problems, and all kinds of things that are
: heartbreaking to see. But that's called nature, instinct,
things
: like that. And that doesn't count feline hepatitus, HIV, FIP
and
: all the rest of it. The right feral cat could kill off every
cat
: in your home.
: It's a very bad idea to mess with feral cats unless you
know
: what you're doing to some degree and have support resources
at
: hand. There is good reason ferals are not caged/kept with
: "normal" companion animals in shelters and such.
: :
: : Trap neuter and release is the option, NOT euthanasia.
: Then I hope you're donating to lots to lots of Shelters
working
: on the feral problems. If not, you're being hypocritical
here.
:
: Remember what
: : happened in the bubonic plague, when cats were eliminated?
: Perhaps it is
: : feral cats that will "save" us from the avian flu!
:
: No, I don't; wasn't alive then, but I have read about it.
: Remember it's YOU brought up the annihilation of every cat in
the
: world, not anyone else. You sound like one of those people
who,
: rather than save to euthanize that poor kitten we found
frozen
: into the puddle one morning on the street, would have instead
: have let her lay there and suffer? It had a body temp of 94
: degrees when it got to the Shelter, and lived 24 hours, so we
: took it to assess it and see if it was salvageable. It was
and
: is still with us and hopefully will be for a long time. But
no
: one else would have taken it; it had gone into liver and
kidney
: shutdown and couldn't/wouldn't eat or drink; what would YOU
have
: done with it? Let it continue its slow death and misery
right
: to the end? It would have taken at least another three days.
: That scenario and ones like it happen over and over every day
at
: Shelters all over the world.
: There are a LOT more of them around than people who will
make
: life bearable for them. Which group do YOU belong to? How
many
: will you go out and help? How many have you helped? Or is
the
: two you have enough and you've "done your duty, let someone
else
: do it now"?
:
: Regards,
:
: Pop
: ---
:
:
:
: