"user" wrote in message
...
Hi Folks..

I'm having an issue with one of the AC systems in my house.. For some
reasons only the upstairs unit seems to be leaking freeon.. But I've had a
tech come over, and check for leaks, using a device amde by
Infinicon-Tekmate, that emits a beeping sound when freeon is detected..
However, the tech wasn't able to detect any leaks using that.. Then he
tried using the bubble detector solution, but wasn't able to find any
leaks with that either.. He did this in both places, in the attic near the
coil, and outside by opening the unit near the compressor..

He said that the only other place that the freeon could be leaking is in
the pipes from the upstairs unit to outside, which would involve drilling
a hole in the wall, pulling the pipe out, and replacing, and then
repairing the whole in the wall..

However, when the tech replaces the freeon (with upto 2 pounds of freeon),
the AC is ice cold again, and the last time he recharged it, it lasted for
2 weeks. Hopefully this time it will last longer, and the summer in the
SouthEast will be over..

I've also replaced the filters and vacuumed the vents..

Has anyone seen this before.. where the freeon leaks over a period of say
2 weeks, but can't be detected, and upon recharging, it works fine.. for
another 2 weeks. ?

If it's losing the charge that quick, then you need to call another company
to find it and repair it. There are other ways other than using those
electrocnic "sniffers". Many of those give false (or no!) readings. I've had
better luck with ultraviolet dye.....

That's a pretty well written description. IFF the tech was
reliable, then you have a leak in the walls, it seems funny he
wasn't able to detect it anywhere. If it's leaking into the
walls, there has to be an exit point for it and it'll be
detectable there.

If it's actually "freon" as you said, that has a pretty good odor
and at the loss rate you indicate, you should be able to smell it
yoruself, even.

How does he/you know, if the detector was functioning and being
used, correctly?

Also, if this is in the attic, I don't know why a hole would have
to be made in a wall. It should be pretty easy to pull out the
old and fish in a new pipe. IMO at least; no expert here, just
an avid diy'er.

Just my two cents; I know it isn't my money, but if I were you I
think I'd try another service and if they came up with the same
results, consider replacing what needs to be done. It's still
cheaper than paying housecalls for freon every two weeks in your
climate.

"user" wrote in message
...
: Hi Folks..
:
: I'm having an issue with one of the AC systems in my house..
For some
: reasons only the upstairs unit seems to be leaking freeon.. But
I've had
: a tech come over, and check for leaks, using a device amde by
: Infinicon-Tekmate, that emits a beeping sound when freeon is
detected..
: However, the tech wasn't able to detect any leaks using that..
Then he
: tried using the bubble detector solution, but wasn't able to
find any
: leaks with that either.. He did this in both places, in the
attic near
: the coil, and outside by opening the unit near the compressor..
:
: He said that the only other place that the freeon could be
leaking is in
: the pipes from the upstairs unit to outside, which would
involve
: drilling a hole in the wall, pulling the pipe out, and
replacing, and
: then repairing the whole in the wall..
:
: However, when the tech replaces the freeon (with upto 2 pounds
of
: freeon), the AC is ice cold again, and the last time he
recharged it, it
: lasted for 2 weeks. Hopefully this time it will last longer,
and the
: summer in the SouthEast will be over..
:
: I've also replaced the filters and vacuumed the vents..
:
: Has anyone seen this before.. where the freeon leaks over a
period of
: say 2 weeks, but can't be detected, and upon recharging, it
works fine..
: for another 2 weeks. ?
:
: Thanks in advance for your help..
:

Not to nitpick, but

"Pop" wrote

If it's actually "freon" as you said, that has a pretty good odor
and at the loss rate you indicate, you should be able to smell it
yoruself, even.

Smell? Orderless and tasteless. Add a flame to it and you will get a smell.
(O.K., and it DOES taste cold....;-] ).
If it's leaking that fast, you may even HEAR it....


Also, if this is in the attic, I don't know why a hole would have
to be made in a wall. It should be pretty easy to pull out the
old and fish in a new pipe. IMO at least; no expert here, just
an avid diy'er.

I'd like to see you "fish" a 3/8 and an insulated 3/4 inch copper tube up 2
stories through several inch-and-a-half holes. Not an easy task. In fact
it's damn near impossible. ESPECIALLY if the original installed strapped the
lines to any of the studs in the wall.....


Just my two cents; I know it isn't my money, but if I were you I
think I'd try another service and if they came up with the same
results, consider replacing what needs to be done. It's still
cheaper than paying housecalls for freon every two weeks in your
climate.

How right you are.....

Actually, the oil may have some smell.
And, with a leak that big,
you should see an oil stain, I would
think.

Dr. Hardcrab wrote:
Not to nitpick, but

"Pop" wrote

If it's actually "freon" as you said, that has a pretty good odor
and at the loss rate you indicate, you should be able to smell it
yoruself, even.


Smell? Orderless and tasteless. Add a flame to it and you will get a smell.
(O.K., and it DOES taste cold....;-] ).
If it's leaking that fast, you may even HEAR it....


Also, if this is in the attic, I don't know why a hole would have
to be made in a wall. It should be pretty easy to pull out the
old and fish in a new pipe. IMO at least; no expert here, just
an avid diy'er.


I'd like to see you "fish" a 3/8 and an insulated 3/4 inch copper tube up 2
stories through several inch-and-a-half holes. Not an easy task. In fact
it's damn near impossible. ESPECIALLY if the original installed strapped the
lines to any of the studs in the wall.....


Just my two cents; I know it isn't my money, but if I were you I
think I'd try another service and if they came up with the same
results, consider replacing what needs to be done. It's still
cheaper than paying housecalls for freon every two weeks in your
climate.


How right you are.....

user wrote:
Hi Folks..

I'm having an issue with one of the AC systems in my house.. For some
reasons only the upstairs unit seems to be leaking freeon.. But I've
had a tech come over, and check for leaks, using a device amde by
Infinicon-Tekmate, that emits a beeping sound when freeon is
detected.. However, the tech wasn't able to detect any leaks using
that.. Then he tried using the bubble detector solution, but wasn't
able to find any leaks with that either.. He did this in both places,
in the attic near the coil, and outside by opening the unit near the
compressor..

Either the Tek-Mate is broken, or it was turned off. With your leak
rate it should have been beeping anywhere in the vicinity of the leak!

Features:

a.. 0.4 oz./yr. sensitivity to CFCs, HCFCs, and HFCs

Thanks Dr.. !!

Now is the UV dye injected into the freeon systems, and if not, how
exactly is it done..

Thanks



Dr. Hardcrab wrote:
"user" wrote in message
...

Hi Folks..

I'm having an issue with one of the AC systems in my house.. For some
reasons only the upstairs unit seems to be leaking freeon.. But I've had a
tech come over, and check for leaks, using a device amde by
Infinicon-Tekmate, that emits a beeping sound when freeon is detected..
However, the tech wasn't able to detect any leaks using that.. Then he
tried using the bubble detector solution, but wasn't able to find any
leaks with that either.. He did this in both places, in the attic near the
coil, and outside by opening the unit near the compressor..

He said that the only other place that the freeon could be leaking is in
the pipes from the upstairs unit to outside, which would involve drilling
a hole in the wall, pulling the pipe out, and replacing, and then
repairing the whole in the wall..

However, when the tech replaces the freeon (with upto 2 pounds of freeon),
the AC is ice cold again, and the last time he recharged it, it lasted for
2 weeks. Hopefully this time it will last longer, and the summer in the
SouthEast will be over..

I've also replaced the filters and vacuumed the vents..

Has anyone seen this before.. where the freeon leaks over a period of say
2 weeks, but can't be detected, and upon recharging, it works fine.. for
another 2 weeks. ?


If it's losing the charge that quick, then you need to call another company
to find it and repair it. There are other ways other than using those
electrocnic "sniffers". Many of those give false (or no!) readings. I've had
better luck with ultraviolet dye.....

It's my understanding that freon (like methane or propane) is odorless. In
the real world, we use odorizing chemicals so we can smell them (mixed in
with the natural gas or propane).

In the case of "smelling freon" that would be the lubricating oil you smell.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


"Pop" wrote in message
...
That's a pretty well written description. IFF the tech was
reliable, then you have a leak in the walls, it seems funny he
wasn't able to detect it anywhere. If it's leaking into the
walls, there has to be an exit point for it and it'll be
detectable there.

If it's actually "freon" as you said, that has a pretty good odor
and at the loss rate you indicate, you should be able to smell it
yoruself, even.

How does he/you know, if the detector was functioning and being
used, correctly?

Also, if this is in the attic, I don't know why a hole would have
to be made in a wall. It should be pretty easy to pull out the
old and fish in a new pipe. IMO at least; no expert here, just
an avid diy'er.

Just my two cents; I know it isn't my money, but if I were you I
think I'd try another service and if they came up with the same
results, consider replacing what needs to be done. It's still
cheaper than paying housecalls for freon every two weeks in your
climate.

"user" wrote in message
...
: Hi Folks..
:
: I'm having an issue with one of the AC systems in my house..
For some
: reasons only the upstairs unit seems to be leaking freeon..

Yes, it's very possible. there are a bunch of places freon could leak, and
not be easy to detect. It's very possible there is a leak in the lineset.
However, as the other fellow wrote, you'd think he could have detected the
leak where the tubes go in and out of the wall.

I'd also suggest to call a second service company. Ask them to come over and
find the leak for you.

Your description "add two pounds and it's cold as ice for two weeks" is
classic description of freon leak.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


"user" wrote in message
...
Hi Folks..

I'm having an issue with one of the AC systems in my house.. For some
reasons only the upstairs unit seems to be leaking freeon.. But I've had
a tech come over, and check for leaks, using a device amde by
Infinicon-Tekmate, that emits a beeping sound when freeon is detected..
However, the tech wasn't able to detect any leaks using that.. Then he
tried using the bubble detector solution, but wasn't able to find any
leaks with that either.. He did this in both places, in the attic near
the coil, and outside by opening the unit near the compressor..

He said that the only other place that the freeon could be leaking is in
the pipes from the upstairs unit to outside, which would involve
drilling a hole in the wall, pulling the pipe out, and replacing, and
then repairing the whole in the wall..

However, when the tech replaces the freeon (with upto 2 pounds of
freeon), the AC is ice cold again, and the last time he recharged it, it
lasted for 2 weeks. Hopefully this time it will last longer, and the
summer in the SouthEast will be over..

I've also replaced the filters and vacuumed the vents..

Has anyone seen this before.. where the freeon leaks over a period of
say 2 weeks, but can't be detected, and upon recharging, it works fine..
for another 2 weeks. ?

Thanks in advance for your help..

Thanks..

Well.. the tech is working for a company that is certified. and so on..
But as to his reliability, I guess only time will tell.. unfortunately..

I didn't know that freeon had an odor.. I thought it was one of those
odorless gases..

Regarding whether the detector was working properly, the tech did
complain about the batteries, and so I replaced them with 2 new ones of
my one, that I just bought the day before, and it still have the same
results..

Thanks



Pop wrote:

That's a pretty well written description. IFF the tech was
reliable, then you have a leak in the walls, it seems funny he
wasn't able to detect it anywhere. If it's leaking into the
walls, there has to be an exit point for it and it'll be
detectable there.

If it's actually "freon" as you said, that has a pretty good odor
and at the loss rate you indicate, you should be able to smell it
yoruself, even.

How does he/you know, if the detector was functioning and being
used, correctly?

Also, if this is in the attic, I don't know why a hole would have
to be made in a wall. It should be pretty easy to pull out the
old and fish in a new pipe. IMO at least; no expert here, just
an avid diy'er.

Just my two cents; I know it isn't my money, but if I were you I
think I'd try another service and if they came up with the same
results, consider replacing what needs to be done. It's still
cheaper than paying housecalls for freon every two weeks in your
climate.

"user" wrote in message
...
: Hi Folks..
:
: I'm having an issue with one of the AC systems in my house..
For some
: reasons only the upstairs unit seems to be leaking freeon.. But
I've had
: a tech come over, and check for leaks, using a device amde by
: Infinicon-Tekmate, that emits a beeping sound when freeon is
detected..
: However, the tech wasn't able to detect any leaks using that..
Then he
: tried using the bubble detector solution, but wasn't able to
find any
: leaks with that either.. He did this in both places, in the
attic near
: the coil, and outside by opening the unit near the compressor..
:
: He said that the only other place that the freeon could be
leaking is in
: the pipes from the upstairs unit to outside, which would
involve
: drilling a hole in the wall, pulling the pipe out, and
replacing, and
: then repairing the whole in the wall..
:
: However, when the tech replaces the freeon (with upto 2 pounds
of
: freeon), the AC is ice cold again, and the last time he
recharged it, it
: lasted for 2 weeks. Hopefully this time it will last longer,
and the
: summer in the SouthEast will be over..
:
: I've also replaced the filters and vacuumed the vents..
:
: Has anyone seen this before.. where the freeon leaks over a
period of
: say 2 weeks, but can't be detected, and upon recharging, it
works fine..
: for another 2 weeks. ?
:
: Thanks in advance for your help..
:

Thanks..

Well, it looks like I will be trying another service..

Is the description below referring to the specs of a Tek-Mate ?

Features:

a.. 0.4 oz./yr. sensitivity to CFCs, HCFCs, and HFCs



Thanks



Travis Jordan wrote:

user wrote:

Hi Folks..

I'm having an issue with one of the AC systems in my house.. For some
reasons only the upstairs unit seems to be leaking freeon.. But I've
had a tech come over, and check for leaks, using a device amde by
Infinicon-Tekmate, that emits a beeping sound when freeon is
detected.. However, the tech wasn't able to detect any leaks using
that.. Then he tried using the bubble detector solution, but wasn't
able to find any leaks with that either.. He did this in both places,
in the attic near the coil, and outside by opening the unit near the
compressor..


Either the Tek-Mate is broken, or it was turned off. With your leak
rate it should have been beeping anywhere in the vicinity of the leak!

Features:

a.. 0.4 oz./yr. sensitivity to CFCs, HCFCs, and HFCs

user wrote:
Is the description below referring to the specs of a Tek-Mate ?

Features:

a.. 0.4 oz./yr. sensitivity to CFCs, HCFCs, and HFCs

Yes. His Tek-Mate's sensor was probably bad.

Travis Jordan wrote:
His Tek-Mate's sensor was probably bad.

The most common places for leaks in a system are the service valves at
the condenser (make sure the caps with o-rings are installed over the
schrader valves), the lineset (specifically, any brazed joints including
90 degree couplings, if such were used), then the evaporator coil. I'd
really be surprised if there was a leak in the lineset inside a wall,
although this sometimes happens when nails are hammered through
wallboard into the lineset.

Hung any new pictures recently?

"user" wrote in message ...
Thanks..

Well, it looks like I will be trying another service..

Is the description below referring to the specs of a Tek-Mate ?

Features:

a.. 0.4 oz./yr. sensitivity to CFCs, HCFCs, and HFCs



Thanks


This is Turtle.

If the Tek-Mate operating correctly, is operated correctly, and operator knows
how to read the results. If it does not show a leak , there is no leak in your
hvac system. so if your system does have a leak that let's it run out of freon
in 2 weeks --- you need another Tek-Mate or a new operator.

..4 oz./yr sensitivity of the Tek-mate, i could be wrong but i was told it was
like 1/8 oz. per year leak it will pick up.

TURTLE

Ultrasonic detection.....only way to go.





"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in message
news:juCWe.238$fb6.2@trnddc08...

"user" wrote in message
...
Hi Folks..

I'm having an issue with one of the AC systems in my house.. For some
reasons only the upstairs unit seems to be leaking freeon.. But I've had
a
tech come over, and check for leaks, using a device amde by
Infinicon-Tekmate, that emits a beeping sound when freeon is detected..
However, the tech wasn't able to detect any leaks using that.. Then he
tried using the bubble detector solution, but wasn't able to find any
leaks with that either.. He did this in both places, in the attic near
the
coil, and outside by opening the unit near the compressor..

He said that the only other place that the freeon could be leaking is in
the pipes from the upstairs unit to outside, which would involve
drilling
a hole in the wall, pulling the pipe out, and replacing, and then
repairing the whole in the wall..

However, when the tech replaces the freeon (with upto 2 pounds of
freeon),
the AC is ice cold again, and the last time he recharged it, it lasted
for
2 weeks. Hopefully this time it will last longer, and the summer in the
SouthEast will be over..

I've also replaced the filters and vacuumed the vents..

Has anyone seen this before.. where the freeon leaks over a period of
say
2 weeks, but can't be detected, and upon recharging, it works fine.. for
another 2 weeks. ?

If it's losing the charge that quick, then you need to call another
company
to find it and repair it. There are other ways other than using those
electrocnic "sniffers". Many of those give false (or no!) readings. I've
had
better luck with ultraviolet dye.....

The refrigerant alone has no odor or smell, the oil that migrates with it
does, but probably not enough to detect. You will have a better chance of
winning the power ball, than "fishing" a lineset up two stories...it ain't
gonna happen. OP, we use ultrasonic leak detection, sure someone in your
area does as well. You can detect the russling sound made by eyelashes in
excess of 20 yards, I have not seen a leak, even one losing only fractional
ounces annually that can not be detected then pinpointed with them, call
around find a service provider that uses them and have them locate the
source of loss for you.
"Pop" wrote in message
...
That's a pretty well written description. IFF the tech was
reliable, then you have a leak in the walls, it seems funny he
wasn't able to detect it anywhere. If it's leaking into the
walls, there has to be an exit point for it and it'll be
detectable there.

If it's actually "freon" as you said, that has a pretty good odor
and at the loss rate you indicate, you should be able to smell it
yoruself, even.

How does he/you know, if the detector was functioning and being
used, correctly?

Also, if this is in the attic, I don't know why a hole would have
to be made in a wall. It should be pretty easy to pull out the
old and fish in a new pipe. IMO at least; no expert here, just
an avid diy'er.

Just my two cents; I know it isn't my money, but if I were you I
think I'd try another service and if they came up with the same
results, consider replacing what needs to be done. It's still
cheaper than paying housecalls for freon every two weeks in your
climate.

"user" wrote in message
...
: Hi Folks..
:
: I'm having an issue with one of the AC systems in my house..
For some
: reasons only the upstairs unit seems to be leaking freeon.. But
I've had
: a tech come over, and check for leaks, using a device amde by
: Infinicon-Tekmate, that emits a beeping sound when freeon is
detected..
: However, the tech wasn't able to detect any leaks using that..
Then he
: tried using the bubble detector solution, but wasn't able to
find any
: leaks with that either.. He did this in both places, in the
attic near
: the coil, and outside by opening the unit near the compressor..
:
: He said that the only other place that the freeon could be
leaking is in
: the pipes from the upstairs unit to outside, which would
involve
: drilling a hole in the wall, pulling the pipe out, and
replacing, and
: then repairing the whole in the wall..
:
: However, when the tech replaces the freeon (with upto 2 pounds
of
: freeon), the AC is ice cold again, and the last time he
recharged it, it
: lasted for 2 weeks. Hopefully this time it will last longer,
and the
: summer in the SouthEast will be over..
:
: I've also replaced the filters and vacuumed the vents..
:
: Has anyone seen this before.. where the freeon leaks over a
period of
: say 2 weeks, but can't be detected, and upon recharging, it
works fine..
: for another 2 weeks. ?
:
: Thanks in advance for your help..
:

Stormin Mormon writes:

It's my understanding that freon (like methane or propane) is odorless.

Your understanding is mistaken.

R-12, R-22, and R-134a all have a distinct solvent or medicinal type odor.

It isn't strong enough for practical leak detection, however.

user writes:

Has anyone seen this before.. where the freeon leaks over a period of
say 2 weeks, but can't be detected, and upon recharging, it works fine..
for another 2 weeks. ?

Your leak is fast enough that a leak detector should easily find it. Yet
yours doesn't. So I'd look at the evaporator, which is the easiest place
to miss such a detection.

Richard J Kinch wrote:
R-12, R-22, and R-134a all have a distinct solvent or medicinal type
odor.

DuPont and I would describe the odor as 'slight ethereal, but most
people can't smell it in concentrations below about 20%.

http://msds.dupont.com/msds/pdfs/EN/...2f80007210.pdf

Physical Data

Boiling Point : -40.8 C (-41.4 F)

Vapor Pressure : 151 psig @ 25 C (77 F)

Vapor Density : 3.03 (Air=1.0) @ 25 C (77 F)

% Volatiles : 100 WT%

Evaporation Rate : 1 (CCl4=1.0)

Solubility in Water : 0.3 WT% @ 25 C (77 F)

pH : Neutral

Odor : Slight ethereal

Form : Liquified Gas.

Color : Clear, Colorless.

Liquid Density : 1.194 g/cm3 @ 25 C (77 F)

Sorry bud but you are full of ****.
"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Stormin Mormon writes:

It's my understanding that freon (like methane or propane) is odorless.

Your understanding is mistaken.

R-12, R-22, and R-134a all have a distinct solvent or medicinal type odor.

It isn't strong enough for practical leak detection, however.

you are more full of **** than the idiot Kinch
"Travis Jordan" wrote in message
. ..
Richard J Kinch wrote:
R-12, R-22, and R-134a all have a distinct solvent or medicinal type
odor.

DuPont and I would describe the odor as 'slight ethereal, but most
people can't smell it in concentrations below about 20%.

http://msds.dupont.com/msds/pdfs/EN/...2f80007210.pdf

Physical Data

Boiling Point : -40.8 C (-41.4 F)

Vapor Pressure : 151 psig @ 25 C (77 F)

Vapor Density : 3.03 (Air=1.0) @ 25 C (77 F)

% Volatiles : 100 WT%

Evaporation Rate : 1 (CCl4=1.0)

Solubility in Water : 0.3 WT% @ 25 C (77 F)

pH : Neutral

Odor : Slight ethereal

Form : Liquified Gas.

Color : Clear, Colorless.

Liquid Density : 1.194 g/cm3 @ 25 C (77 F)

I have never seen a lineset inside a wall have a leak that wasn't caused
by a nail or screw. However, all the ones I've seen (about one a year
average) leaked out about as fast as you could put it in. As was
mentioned, if indeed that is where your leak is, it can be fairly easily
repaired, usually. If the hole is fairly small, as it sounds, since
yours takes two weeks to leak down, the hole itself can probably just be
soldered-- a lot easier and safer fire hazardwise, than installing a
coupling inside the wall. If you find that the nail is not near the
lineset, the leak is most likely not in the lineset. The only other way
to check the lineset is to isolate it and pressurize, or pull a vacuum
on it, and see if it holds. Before I would do that, I would double and
triple check the evaporator coil-- we find about 80+% of leaks there. Of
course it CAN be leaking anywhere in the refrigeration circuit. What is
the brand of unit you have? Some are more prone to leaks in varous
places than others. Good luck Larry

user,

The evaporator is the coil in the attic. The condensor is the coil
outside.

If you have a leak in the lineset, run a new lineset exposed up the
outside wall hidden inside a downspout. Run the downspout up into the
soffit. Looks nice, especially if you already have real downspouts to
match. Abandon the old lines in the wall. That is what I have done
many times. Line sets DO leak inside the walls, I have seen it many
times, but I would have someone else check the units one more time to
be sure.

Stretch