Hiya folks,
I've got a water supply line that has a leaky valve on it. I intend to
replace it this weekend. This is for a cabin so the valve gets used a
fair amount as we drain the lines when not there, re-charge when there,
etc... Anyway, currently I've got gate valves on it but was
wondering if I should consider ball valves instead? Is there an
advantage of one over the other?
Cheers,
cc

"Cubby" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hiya folks,
I've got a water supply line that has a leaky valve on it. I intend to
replace it this weekend. This is for a cabin so the valve gets used a
fair amount as we drain the lines when not there, re-charge when there,
etc... Anyway, currently I've got gate valves on it but was
wondering if I should consider ball valves instead? Is there an
advantage of one over the other?
Cheers,
cc

I use ball valves whenever I can, But what do I no I'm just a
Plumber/Pipefitter

Cubby wrote:
Hiya folks,
I've got a water supply line that has a leaky valve on it. I intend to
replace it this weekend. This is for a cabin so the valve gets used a
fair amount as we drain the lines when not there, re-charge when there,
etc... Anyway, currently I've got gate valves on it but was
wondering if I should consider ball valves instead? Is there an
advantage of one over the other?
Cheers,
cc


Gate valves are better for 'fine tuning' th flow of water. If that's
not an issue then the ball valve is a better valve.

Red Cloud® wrote:
On 8 Sep 2005 16:30:32 -0700, "Cubby" wrote:


Hiya folks,
I've got a water supply line that has a leaky valve on it. I intend to
replace it this weekend. This is for a cabin so the valve gets used a
fair amount as we drain the lines when not there, re-charge when there,
etc... Anyway, currently I've got gate valves on it but was
wondering if I should consider ball valves instead? Is there an
advantage of one over the other?
Cheers,
cc


For situations where a valve will always be either all the way open or all the
way closed, a ball valve is superior. In a gate valve, the water is always in
contact with the gate and closing mechanism, and will eventually corrode it.
It's also nice that you can see at a glance if a ball valve is open or closed.

Gate valves are better when fine control and adjustment are needed.

rusty redcloud


Not true. Gate valves are meant to be fully open or closed just like a
ball joint. When a gate valve is open, the disc should be completely
out of the flow path. Gate valves are not meant for flow control. To
control flow, a globe valve is used. And if that isn't fine enough, a
needle valve is used.

Red Cloud® wrote:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 00:03:58 GMT, User Example wrote:


Red Cloud® wrote:

On 8 Sep 2005 16:30:32 -0700, "Cubby" wrote:



Hiya folks,
I've got a water supply line that has a leaky valve on it. I intend to
replace it this weekend. This is for a cabin so the valve gets used a
fair amount as we drain the lines when not there, re-charge when there,
etc... Anyway, currently I've got gate valves on it but was
wondering if I should consider ball valves instead? Is there an
advantage of one over the other?
Cheers,
cc


For situations where a valve will always be either all the way open or all the
way closed, a ball valve is superior. In a gate valve, the water is always in
contact with the gate and closing mechanism, and will eventually corrode it.
It's also nice that you can see at a glance if a ball valve is open or closed.

Gate valves are better when fine control and adjustment are needed.

rusty redcloud


Not true. Gate valves are meant to be fully open or closed just like a
ball joint. When a gate valve is open, the disc should be completely
out of the flow path. Gate valves are not meant for flow control. To
control flow, a globe valve is used. And if that isn't fine enough, a
needle valve is used.


Ball joint?

Bwhahahahahaha!

rusty redcloud
ps. They even use gate valves to control flow on Hoover Dam, as well as valves
that control water flow in boilers, and even your own bathtub, nitwit.

When I worked in the nuclear power plants a gate valve was NEVER used in
a circumstance where flow control was desired. And those plants have
1000s of valves in them and I knew them all. (Part of the qualification
process was to be able to draw every piping system from memory,
including the valves.)

Red Cloud® wrote:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 00:26:49 GMT, User Example wrote:


Red Cloud® wrote:

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 00:03:58 GMT, User Example wrote:



Red Cloud® wrote:


On 8 Sep 2005 16:30:32 -0700, "Cubby" wrote:




Hiya folks,
I've got a water supply line that has a leaky valve on it. I intend to
replace it this weekend. This is for a cabin so the valve gets used a
fair amount as we drain the lines when not there, re-charge when there,
etc... Anyway, currently I've got gate valves on it but was
wondering if I should consider ball valves instead? Is there an
advantage of one over the other?
Cheers,
cc


For situations where a valve will always be either all the way open or all the
way closed, a ball valve is superior. In a gate valve, the water is always in
contact with the gate and closing mechanism, and will eventually corrode it.
It's also nice that you can see at a glance if a ball valve is open or closed.

Gate valves are better when fine control and adjustment are needed.

rusty redcloud


Not true. Gate valves are meant to be fully open or closed just like a
ball joint. When a gate valve is open, the disc should be completely
out of the flow path. Gate valves are not meant for flow control. To
control flow, a globe valve is used. And if that isn't fine enough, a
needle valve is used.


Ball joint?

Bwhahahahahaha!

rusty redcloud
ps. They even use gate valves to control flow on Hoover Dam, as well as valves
that control water flow in boilers, and even your own bathtub, nitwit.

When I worked in the nuclear power plants a gate valve was NEVER used in
a circumstance where flow control was desired. And those plants have
1000s of valves in them and I knew them all. (Part of the qualification
process was to be able to draw every piping system from memory,
including the valves.)


A nuclear power plant is a very special circumstance. They do a lot of things in
a nuclear plant that you would never do anywhere else. You are posting advice in
A.H.R., where gate valves are commonly and correctly used as throttles.

rusty redcloud

Face it. You don't know what you are talking about. Valves are valves,
no matter where you use them. Go to any website adverting gate valves
and they will say they are specifically for on/off purples. That's why
they are called "gate" valves. They are either open or closed.

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 00:34:33 GMT, Red Cloud® wrote:


A nuclear power plant is a very special circumstance. They do a lot of things in
a nuclear plant that you would never do anywhere else. You are posting advice in
A.H.R., where gate valves are commonly and correctly used as throttles.

rusty redcloud

One more time:
Mr. Redcloud, you are badly misinformed. Gate valves are NOT used as throttling
devices. Their design is such that prolonged semi-open operation will wear the
channel that the valve gate rides in, rendering it useless to stopping the flow.

Red Cloud® wrote:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 00:44:59 GMT, User Example wrote:



A nuclear power plant is a very special circumstance. They do a lot of things in
a nuclear plant that you would never do anywhere else. You are posting advice in
A.H.R., where gate valves are commonly and correctly used as throttles.

rusty redcloud



That's why
they are called "gate" valves. They are either open or closed.


The word gate in no way implies or states, "either opened or closed"


Yes it does. You obviously know nothing about valves. I mean, the crap
you are saying makes you look like a Best Buy salesman. Why don't you
quit while you are ahead? Nothing you have said about valves is even
close to right. As someone who has opened, closed, lapped, packed, and
replaced more valves than you will ever see, I think I know what I am
talking about. Maybe you have replaced your faucet valve and the guy at
Home Depot said that gate valves are good for throttling but that
doesn't make you know what you are talking about. The other poster is
exactly right, using a gate valve as a throttle valve will harm the disc
after awhile. Also, if you know anything about fluid flow, you will
realize that the design of a gate valve makes it a terrible flow
regulator because until the valve is over 1/2 closed, at least, it
doesn't change flow hardly at all. With a gate valve, fluid flow is
really only effected when the valve is almost closed. On the other
hand, a globe valve does a good job of controlling flow through the
entire range of the open-to-closed position.

Actually, a globe valve should be used for throttling service.

A gate valve should be used like a ball valve, either wide open or
fully closed. If you use a gate valve for fine adhustment, after a
while it may not close tightly.

For on-off service, a ball valve is usually superior to a gate valve as
they last longer and there is less turbulence when it is full open
because of the smooth bore inside the valve. I prefer the Apollo
valve, but there are other very good ball valves as well. Use a Full
Port ball valve for lowest pressure drop.

Stretch

Red Cloud® wrote:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:51:45 GMT, User Example wrote:


Red Cloud® wrote:

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 00:44:59 GMT, User Example wrote:




A nuclear power plant is a very special circumstance. They do a lot of things in
a nuclear plant that you would never do anywhere else. You are posting advice in
A.H.R., where gate valves are commonly and correctly used as throttles.

rusty redcloud


That's why
they are called "gate" valves. They are either open or closed.


The word gate in no way implies or states, "either opened or closed"


Yes it does.


Not according to O.E.D.

One of the definitions, in fact, is, "a device regulating the passage of water"

Go argue with them, dimwit.

rusty redcloud


Yes, it regulates the flow. Either flowing or not flowing.

Rusty,

I am a 4th generation plumber / pipefitter.

I have done plumbing and pipefitting work, including process piping and
residential plumbing, hot water and steam heating work since 1975.

I am licensed in South Carolina. I was previously lcensed in
Pennsylvania.

A gate valve should not be used for throttling service in residential
use.

A gate valve should not be used for throttling service in commercial
use.

A gate valve should not be used for throttling service in industrial
use.

I have not worked in power plants, but gate valves should not be used
for throttling service there either. It is the wrong application for
that valve. Actually, they make motorized ball valves with worm gear
drives. You won't find them a Lowes, but they could use them in power
plants if the wished.

You are mis-informed. I have seen you give good advice here before,
but this time you are mistaken. It happens to all of us sometimes.
Getting belligerant does no one any good, including yourself. Even
experienced people can still learn new things. Please take this
oppurtunity to learn something new.

Stretch

General Foods used rising stem gate valves in the San Leandro, CALIF
instant coffee processing facility. They were used to control flow of
VERY HOT water at pressures approaching 400psi. I don't have any idea
if they were special or not.

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 00:03:58 GMT, User Example
wrote:

Red Cloud® wrote:
On 8 Sep 2005 16:30:32 -0700, "Cubby" wrote:


Hiya folks,
I've got a water supply line that has a leaky valve on it. I intend to
replace it this weekend. This is for a cabin so the valve gets used a
fair amount as we drain the lines when not there, re-charge when there,
etc... Anyway, currently I've got gate valves on it but was
wondering if I should consider ball valves instead? Is there an
advantage of one over the other?
Cheers,
cc


For situations where a valve will always be either all the way open or all the
way closed, a ball valve is superior. In a gate valve, the water is always in
contact with the gate and closing mechanism, and will eventually corrode it.
It's also nice that you can see at a glance if a ball valve is open or closed.

Gate valves are better when fine control and adjustment are needed.

rusty redcloud


Not true. Gate valves are meant to be fully open or closed just like a
ball joint. When a gate valve is open, the disc should be completely
out of the flow path. Gate valves are not meant for flow control. To
control flow, a globe valve is used. And if that isn't fine enough, a
needle valve is used.

Thanks Folks. I think after looking at it all, I'd prefer to use a
ball valve. Only issue I have is these valves (two of them, service
and a drain) will need to be operated from approx. 3ft away. These
are located in a crawl space and it's prohibitive for my guests (mother
etc..) to crawl under there every time they go up there to turn on/off
the water. So, with the ball valve, I'm not sure I can build a handle
extension that would not put undue stress on the pipe. With the gate
valve, the valve handle is different and an extension could be used
quite easily without putting undo stress on the piping. So it looks
like I'm relegated to using a gate valve unless someone knows where
"handle extensions" are available. Cheers, cc

Hey, anybody here know which is better for throttling water flow? a
gate valve or a ball valve?

On 9/9/2005 3:19 PM US(ET), Cubby took fingers to keys, and typed the
following:

Thanks Folks. I think after looking at it all, I'd prefer to use a
ball valve. Only issue I have is these valves (two of them, service
and a drain) will need to be operated from approx. 3ft away. These
are located in a crawl space and it's prohibitive for my guests (mother
etc..) to crawl under there every time they go up there to turn on/off
the water. So, with the ball valve, I'm not sure I can build a handle
extension that would not put undue stress on the pipe. With the gate
valve, the valve handle is different and an extension could be used
quite easily without putting undo stress on the piping. So it looks
like I'm relegated to using a gate valve unless someone knows where
"handle extensions" are available. Cheers, cc



How about drilling a hole in the ball valve handle, then attaching a 3'-
4' 1/4" steel rod with a bolt and nut? Pull/push the rod to open/close
the valves.

--
Bill

Red Cloud© wrote:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:15:07 GMT, User Example
wrote:


Red Cloud® wrote:

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:51:45 GMT, User Example wrote:



Red Cloud® wrote:


On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 00:44:59 GMT, User Example wrote:





A nuclear power plant is a very special circumstance. They do a lot of things in
a nuclear plant that you would never do anywhere else. You are posting advice in
A.H.R., where gate valves are commonly and correctly used as throttles.

rusty redcloud

That's why
they are called "gate" valves. They are either open or closed.


The word gate in no way implies or states, "either opened or closed"


Yes it does.


Not according to O.E.D.

One of the definitions, in fact, is, "a device regulating the passage of water"

Go argue with them, dimwit.

rusty redcloud


Yes, it regulates the flow. Either flowing or not flowing.


You must have been the inspiration for Homer Simpson, Luser Example.

reg-u-late 3: to fix or adjust the time, amount, degree, or rate of
(~the pressure of a tire)

Yep, but it doesn't say it has to be infinitely adjustable and I still
argue that gate valves are for regulating either 0 flow or no flow.




Tell us again how the use of valves in a nuke plant corresponds to the
use of valves in a residence. In my house, there is no written plan of
inspection, maintenance and scheduled replacement of any valves. In a
nuke plant there are written plans for regular inspection, maintenance
and scheduled replacement.

Fluid in a nuke plant is H20. Fluid in the house is H20. The valves
look and operate pretty much the same. Especially those on the 2ndary
side. The primary ones are still the same, just leak proof. There is
no scheduled replacement of valves... unless they wear out.



A shut off valve for a residence is installed and expected to be in
place for 50 or more years. It may never be operated during that
entire lifespan, or it might be closed after being open for 10 years.
A gate valve left in one position that long will likely never move
again. That's why ball valves are used for residential shut off
valves.


Nuke plant valves are expected to be in place the life of the nuke
plant. They cost too much otherwise. Some are never operated except in
emergencies. I have a gate valve on my water supply at home. Not a
ball valve.

The valves in a nuke plant lead a very different life. They get
operated more frequently than once every 10 years, and they are
checked regularly. They are replaced at specified intervals.

Not necessarily.


Gate valves are used for a number of reasons that would not apply in a
residential installation. The size of the pipes is grossly different.
A ball valve on a 12 or 24 inch pipe would require a VERY long handle,
which would be a problem in confined spaces. A gate valve makes use of
the mechanical advantage of a screw (continuos inclined plane) which
allows it to be more compact, and able to be operated in tight spaces.
It is also much easier to manufacture motorized gate valves for remote
operation. If they could use ball valves in nuke plants, they would,
because the ball valves would last longer and be more reliable.

rusty redcloud

Ball valves are used in nuke plants but usually in the air or hydraulic
systems. They aren't as maintainable or leakproof as gate valves.

Thanks. Might work if I plan to turn the valve. I hadn't planned on
that but let me check to see if it'll work. Thanks!!!

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 17:18:35 -0700, Cubby wrote:

Thanks. Might work if I plan to turn the valve. I hadn't planned on
that but let me check to see if it'll work. Thanks!!!

Make sure the steel rod isn't at a 90 degree angle to the pipe, or you
may find that turning the valve on might be a little problematic. ;-)

--
Keith