I bought a pair of highly-recommended Kohler 1.6 gpf toilets. Both are
the first 1.6gpf toilets I've owned.

After a few months of use, I've found that basically, both of them are
great unless someone does more than urinate in the toilet. If they do,
the toilet requires pretty much two flushes. The problem is that it's
usually the next person coming along that finds this out and has to do
the flushing.

Obviously we'd like to address that. I opened up both toilets hoping
to just extend the left float device to allow more water into the tank
but find that both toilets have center assemblies (sorry, I don't know
the proper terms here) where the overflow goes that extend right up to
the lip of the water. Thus if I raised the float device, the extra
water would just flow into the center drain tube forever.

What is everyone doing to deal with this? Is there an extension for
the center assembly? Is there a better way?

I have no experience of Kohler toilets. Our American Standard Champions
have never needed more than one flush: *everything* just disappears with
a "whoosh."

IIRC, the part in the middle of the tank is the "Flush Tower" in AS-speak.

It doesn't seem to me as though there is anything you could do to
improve the flushing efficiency. But how is the drain pipe? Any partial
blockages? Any venting problems?

IF the system cannot be improved, just settle for double flushing when
necessary. That would still be using less water than a single flush of a
4+ gal. toilet, and it's using that much only now and again. Most of the
time it's using only one-third as much as the old type.

Perce

On 09/07/05 04:43 pm Rich Heimlich tossed the following ingredients into
the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

I bought a pair of highly-recommended Kohler 1.6 gpf toilets. Both are
the first 1.6gpf toilets I've owned.

After a few months of use, I've found that basically, both of them are
great unless someone does more than urinate in the toilet. If they do,
the toilet requires pretty much two flushes. The problem is that it's
usually the next person coming along that finds this out and has to do
the flushing.

Obviously we'd like to address that. I opened up both toilets hoping
to just extend the left float device to allow more water into the tank
but find that both toilets have center assemblies (sorry, I don't know
the proper terms here) where the overflow goes that extend right up to
the lip of the water. Thus if I raised the float device, the extra
water would just flow into the center drain tube forever.

What is everyone doing to deal with this? Is there an extension for
the center assembly? Is there a better way?

"Rich Heimlich" wrote in message ...
I bought a pair of highly-recommended Kohler 1.6 gpf toilets. Both are
the first 1.6gpf toilets I've owned.

After a few months of use, I've found that basically, both of them are
great unless someone does more than urinate in the toilet. If they do,
the toilet requires pretty much two flushes. The problem is that it's
usually the next person coming along that finds this out and has to do
the flushing.

Obviously we'd like to address that. I opened up both toilets hoping
to just extend the left float device to allow more water into the tank
but find that both toilets have center assemblies (sorry, I don't know
the proper terms here) where the overflow goes that extend right up to
the lip of the water. Thus if I raised the float device, the extra
water would just flow into the center drain tube forever.

What is everyone doing to deal with this? Is there an extension for
the center assembly? Is there a better way?

If there's room, just extend the center drain tube with a short piece
of PVC pipe (or treated rubber) and a clamp. Then raise the float.

Does the flapper also have an attached float? If so, move it closer
to the flapper. And if not, try installing one attached very close to
the flapper, which will extend the length of time it stays open and
allow more water into the bowl with each flush.

"Rich Heimlich" wrote in message
...
I bought a pair of highly-recommended Kohler 1.6 gpf toilets. Both are
the first 1.6gpf toilets I've owned.

After a few months of use, I've found that basically, both of them are
great unless someone does more than urinate in the toilet. If they do,
the toilet requires pretty much two flushes. The problem is that it's
usually the next person coming along that finds this out and has to do
the flushing.

Obviously we'd like to address that. I opened up both toilets hoping
to just extend the left float device to allow more water into the tank
but find that both toilets have center assemblies (sorry, I don't know
the proper terms here) where the overflow goes that extend right up to
the lip of the water. Thus if I raised the float device, the extra
water would just flow into the center drain tube forever.

What is everyone doing to deal with this? Is there an extension for
the center assembly? Is there a better way?



You aren't the only one not happy with your low volume "doubleflusher".

If yours is a bad design there is little you can do but replace it or live
with it.

A quick google for "toilet ratings" will help you find a good replacement.
A lot of the newest ones have "pressurized jets" that blow things down the
pipe


Or,....you can find an old full size one, drop it in and don't tell anyone.
Call a local plumber and tell them next time they are changing a toilet,
you will buy the old one for a few bucks


AMUN

"Rich Heimlich" wrote in message
...
I bought a pair of highly-recommended Kohler 1.6 gpf toilets. Both are
the first 1.6gpf toilets I've owned.



Is all the water leaving the tank when you flush?
Some low water use toilets have an adjustable float on the flush valve to
control how much water leaves the tank.
On my toilets in my home if you need a good flush, just hold down the lever
until the flush is done.
Greg

I bought a pair of highly-recommended Kohler 1.6 gpf toilets. Both are
the first 1.6gpf toilets I've owned.

I also have 3 Kohler 1.6 GPF Wellworth toilets. Put them in our last
house too.
Ours are the oval shaped "comfort height" model.

We haven't had a problem, following the old

"If its brown, hold it (the lever) down"

The normal flush only uses half the water in the tank

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:44:10 GMT, "Jeff G"
wrote:

If there's room, just extend the center drain tube with a short piece
of PVC pipe (or treated rubber) and a clamp. Then raise the float.

There is, but I expect there'd the less benefit given what I just saw
when I payed attention this time.

Just slightly more than half the water in the tank went into the bowl.

Does the flapper also have an attached float? If so, move it closer
to the flapper. And if not, try installing one attached very close to
the flapper, which will extend the length of time it stays open and
allow more water into the bowl with each flush.

Yep, hadn't really noticed it before and I had the ability test one by
moving the float down 3 "knobs" on the chain. Seemed to help but not a
lot. I don't get why the flange is so quick to close. It never was
this quick before with older toilets.

However, I suspect Greg is also right that these allow you to just
hold the handle down longer to get all the water in the tank. I just
hate having to think about it.

I'll try out combinations to see what works. I suspect if I can get 2
to 2.5 gallons going, I'd be just fine.

I saw a toilet that had two handles, one for liquid waste and one for
solid waste. That looked interesting. I'd just hate to have to explain
it to everyone.

On Wed 07 Sep 2005 09:41:46p, wrote in alt.home.repair:

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 16:43:42 -0400, Rich Heimlich
wrote:

I bought a pair of highly-recommended Kohler 1.6 gpf toilets. Both are
the first 1.6gpf toilets I've owned.

After a few months of use, I've found that basically, both of them are
great unless someone does more than urinate in the toilet. If they do,
the toilet requires pretty much two flushes. The problem is that it's
usually the next person coming along that finds this out and has to do
the flushing.

Obviously we'd like to address that. I opened up both toilets hoping
to just extend the left float device to allow more water into the tank
but find that both toilets have center assemblies (sorry, I don't know
the proper terms here) where the overflow goes that extend right up to
the lip of the water. Thus if I raised the float device, the extra
water would just flow into the center drain tube forever.

What is everyone doing to deal with this? Is there an extension for the
center assembly? Is there a better way?


Is it a one piece? If so I am looking for an answer too. The problem
is the way the thing is cast there is really not much you can do.
I "flushed" the same question through this NG a while ago with no joy.


How much space is between the center tube and the underside of the lid?
You might be able to friction fit a short length of heavy-wall plastic
tubing to make this tube effective longer, then you adjust the float for a
higher water level.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four,
unless there are three other people.

wrote in message ...
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 16:43:42 -0400, Rich Heimlich
wrote:

I bought a pair of highly-recommended Kohler 1.6 gpf toilets. Both are
the first 1.6gpf toilets I've owned.

After a few months of use, I've found that basically, both of them are
great unless someone does more than urinate in the toilet. If they do,
the toilet requires pretty much two flushes. The problem is that it's
usually the next person coming along that finds this out and has to do
the flushing.

Obviously we'd like to address that. I opened up both toilets hoping
to just extend the left float device to allow more water into the tank
but find that both toilets have center assemblies (sorry, I don't know
the proper terms here) where the overflow goes that extend right up to
the lip of the water. Thus if I raised the float device, the extra
water would just flow into the center drain tube forever.

What is everyone doing to deal with this? Is there an extension for
the center assembly? Is there a better way?


Is it a one piece? If so I am looking for an answer too. The problem
is the way the thing is cast there is really not much you can do.

Yes there is. Vote Libertarian.

On Wed 07 Sep 2005 10:15:03p, wrote in alt.home.repair:

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 05:05:27 GMT, "Jeff G"
wrote:

Is it a one piece? If so I am looking for an answer too. The problem
is the way the thing is cast there is really not much you can do.

Yes there is. Vote Libertarian.

Tried that
Every electtion since 88.
Still can't get the crap out of the bowl


Time for a porta-pottie. Have it hauled away!

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four,
unless there are three other people.

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 16:43:42 -0400, Rich Heimlich
wrote Re Improving Flush in 1.6gpf toilets:

After a few months of use, I've found that basically, both of them are
great unless someone does more than urinate in the toilet. If they do,
the toilet requires pretty much two flushes. The problem is that it's
usually the next person coming along that finds this out and has to do
the flushing.

Most of them work that way.
--
To email me directly, remove CLUTTER.

On 09/08/05 03:30 am Vic Dura tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

After a few months of use, I've found that basically, both of them are
great unless someone does more than urinate in the toilet. If they do,
the toilet requires pretty much two flushes. The problem is that it's
usually the next person coming along that finds this out and has to do
the flushing.

Most of them work that way.

The two American Standard Champions we installed have *never* needed to
be flushed more than once.

Perce

On 9/7/2005 3:43 PM or thereabouts, Rich Heimlich appears, somewhat
unbelievably, to have opined:

I bought a pair of highly-recommended Kohler 1.6 gpf toilets. Both are
the first 1.6gpf toilets I've owned.

After a few months of use, I've found that basically, both of them are
great unless someone does more than urinate in the toilet. If they do,
the toilet requires pretty much two flushes. The problem is that it's
usually the next person coming along that finds this out and has to do
the flushing.

Obviously we'd like to address that. I opened up both toilets hoping
to just extend the left float device to allow more water into the tank
but find that both toilets have center assemblies (sorry, I don't know
the proper terms here) where the overflow goes that extend right up to
the lip of the water. Thus if I raised the float device, the extra
water would just flow into the center drain tube forever.

What is everyone doing to deal with this? Is there an extension for
the center assembly? Is there a better way?


I think some one else has said this, but if you have poorly designed 1.6
gallon toilets, you will never be happy with them. Replace them with
good ones. I had a Kohler and a Universal-Rundle in a previous home
which I installed during bathroom remodels. Both were chosen for
appearance rather than function. Both were horrible.

I had a new home built last year and chose the builder's standard
toilets which turned out to be Vitra (a brand I'd never heard of).
Thought I would wind up replacing them after moving in as they were not
particularly good looking units. However, I have been so impressed with
the Vitra toilets which NEVER clog that I would recommend them to
friends and acquaintances. A lot of people recommend Toto or Caroma
toilets as good flushers. I remember visiting a website that listed
flush performance of various models of toilets, although I can't
remember where it was. Not surprisingly, my Vitras were rated near the
top. Don't mess with crappy toilets, replace them.

--
As a child, my parents thought I was an idiot-savant.
Now, however, it is rather clear that I'm simply an idiot.

On Thu 08 Sep 2005 07:01:35a, wrote in alt.home.repair:

On 8 Sep 2005 06:56:30 +0200, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

How much space is between the center tube and the underside of the lid?
You might be able to friction fit a short length of heavy-wall plastic
tubing to make this tube effective longer, then you adjust the float for a
higher water level.

The problem is the "tube" isn't round. it is a rectangle

Sorry, didn't know.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four,
unless there are three other people.

On Thu 08 Sep 2005 07:02:57a, wrote in alt.home.repair:

On 8 Sep 2005 06:56:30 +0200, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

How much space is between the center tube and the underside of the lid?
You might be able to friction fit a short length of heavy-wall plastic
tubing to make this tube effective longer, then you adjust the float for a
higher water level.


You also have the problem about the location of the flush handle hole.
If the water level is too high water comes out that hole.

All the negative factors seem to make this a poor toilet choice to begin
with,

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four,
unless there are three other people.

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 09:36:46 -0500, Dennis Turner
wrote:

toilets as good flushers. I remember visiting a website that listed
flush performance of various models of toilets, although I can't
remember where it was. Not surprisingly, my Vitras were rated near the
top. Don't mess with crappy toilets, replace them.

http://www.cuwcc.org/Uploads/product...nal-Report.pdf

Dennis,

According to the research that I believe you pointed me to (which was
an extremely interesting study, by the way), it appears I can get what
I need simply by replacing the "early-closing" flapper with a standard
flapper and my problem should go away.

On Thu 08 Sep 2005 10:01:10a, Rich Heimlich wrote in alt.home.repair:

Dennis,

According to the research that I believe you pointed me to (which was
an extremely interesting study, by the way), it appears I can get what
I need simply by replacing the "early-closing" flapper with a standard
flapper and my problem should go away.


It definitely helps. I replaced the flappers on two low-end toilets in my
rented house and it made a huge difference.

Back in the early 1990s the measure our apartment complex took to reduce
water consumption was to replace the standard flapper in all toilets with an
early-closing version. When we realized what they had done, we promptly
replaced theirs with a standard version.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four,
unless there are three other people.

Andy suggests:

Some of the low flush toilets have two modes of operation,
which they don't tell you about.

If you push down the flush handle and let it go quickly, only
about half the water goes to the bowl. This is for flushing pee.

If you hold the flush handle down for 3-4 seconds before releasing
it, all the tank water goes into the bown. This is for flushing poop.

My toilets work fine using the pee technique for both types,
usually. But, occasionally,
it is necessary to use the poop technique. One develops judgement
in this area, after a few tries.....

Good luck,

Andy