I currently have a 12 year old rheem split unit heat pump. The "A" coil is
in the closet and has a drainage problem. The water backed up spilled onto
my carpet and on the sheetrock and went under the wall into another room. I
know I will have to get the unit removed so that I can properly kill the
mold and mildew that will surely grow in there. So, I have two
questions..............

One. Is this unit worth moving into the crawlspace? I have plenty of room
under there, I just don't know if it is worth moving. If it does not have
pump-down valves, the freon will have to be reclaimed and then re-charged. I
will also have to have a horizontal drain pan. The ductwork is minimal,
assuming that the water has not seriously damaged the trunk line underneath.
Wiring is brought from underneath, so no junction is necessary. A local
contractor quoted 675 to do it, but I think some of that was enhanced by the
desire to sell me a new unit, or maybe not.

Two. If I do replace it, what brand of unit best fits my needs? We are going
to sell this house in about three years. I do not want to put a top of the
line unit in only to move and leave it three years from now. I don't want to
leave a poor quality unit in, but I think a large investment would be
wasted. I will need a 2.5 ton. I have an 11 seer now, so I want to go to at
least at 13 seer. Also, I think I would gain efficiency from having a few
problems fixed.(No reduction on trunk line currently, Branches taken from
very end of trunk line, relocation of thermostat from foyer to hallway,
proper size on liquid line{current liquid line is one size smaller than what
comes out on the condensor, it is pinched off and brazed to accomodate a
smaller line}) My primary concerns are enough efficiency improvements to
off-set some of the costs and a decent quality unit that I would not be
embarassed to show to someone wanting to buy the house.

I am considering a Frigidaire unit and I have someone coming out to price a
carrier unit. I thought of having a York system priced and maybe a Rheem or
Ruud. I have heard alot of bad things about Lenox and Goodman, But nothing
from a proffessional who did not sell a competing unit.


It would be nice to get the advice of someone that has no financial interest
in my decision.

Background on the unit.
Rheem Classic XI, manufactured in 1993. Model Number is RPLA-024JAS. (2-ton)

Thanks for any recommendations.

Hi Mike,

I've done quite a few jobs like yours, different ways of course.
So, where to start, if I read right, your air handler in the closet is
a downflow.

I'd definately try to get it out of the house if you can swing it, a
nice 2 ton Package Heat Pump with 10kW strip and concrete pad would
look nice to a home buyer, and they come in 13 seer.

I sell Amana and Heil and Goodman, now, if you read around these groups
much, I believe Goodman is getting a bad rap for no reason, now before
they bought Amana, they were pretty cheaply made, but now, they're
copying some of Amana's tricks, so much so, they now look ALmost alike,
same color, dark gray, same compressor, main difference is the cabinet
design and some of the components, expansion valves or metering device,
GE or Emerson motors,
but after installing all 3 systems, I'd install a Goodman in my house
without question, maybe not a gas pack, but then I've had some of my
worst problems with Amana gas packs, mainly a bad run of leaking evap
coils, what a pain.

As far as Ruud and Rheem, they're the same unit, I've never like them,
after working on most brands, they seem to be one of the cheaply built
brands I've worked on. Frigidare is slightly above the Rheem/Rudd
brand as far as builds go, Lennox is almost a different animal
altogether, like their price, high,
and so is York and Trane, proprietary in their parts.

Stay away from Carrier/Bryant, worst line of units from them I've seen
in many years.

Hope I didn't leave you with more question than you had.

mrkool

Not giving you a hard time, MrKool. Just commenting on some of the things
you have posted:

"mrkool" wrote

I sell Amana and Heil and Goodman, now, if you read around these groups
much, I believe Goodman is getting a bad rap for no reason, now before
they bought Amana, they were pretty cheaply made, but now, they're
copying some of Amana's tricks, so much so, they now look ALmost alike,
same color, dark gray, same compressor, main difference is the cabinet
design and some of the components, expansion valves or metering device,
GE or Emerson motors,
but after installing all 3 systems, I'd install a Goodman in my house
without question, maybe not a gas pack, but then I've had some of my
worst problems with Amana gas packs, mainly a bad run of leaking evap
coils, what a pain.

Goodman got a bad rap (and they deserved it!) because they would sell unit
to ANYONE off the street. That meant any Joe Blow that said "I know how to
solder a pipe!" could pick one up and "install it". Now, I know everyone
says it's not brain surgery or rocket science, but if you have poor methods
like:

1) Using soft (plummers) solder
2) not using nitrogen
3) not installing filter/driers
4) not using A VACUUM PUMP! (with proper manifold or micron guage)
5) not adjusting the charge after initial start up
6) etc., etc., etc......

I see it all the time. Person calls up wanting their unit serviced because
it's not working. Compressor is grounded out. "How can that be??!! It's only
2 years old!!!" Then you look at the soldered joints, lack of filter/drier,
unit tilted towards the house, and just general ****-poor job of
installation and you KNOW that someone that wanted to make a quick buck put
it in. "Maam! This unit is under warranty. You need to all the guy that put
it in." and she says "I've been calling him for 2 months and he doesn't
return my calls". Why should he/she! They already got their money.
The other thing is quality. I have seen 2 year-old units that have faded to
a (almost) pink and just LOOK terrible after a short time. Maybe they have
gotten better, but i am still not going to install one until they can prove
to me they are making a better product.


As far as Ruud and Rheem, they're the same unit, I've never like them,
after working on most brands, they seem to be one of the cheaply built
brands I've worked on.

Rheem? Cheaply built??!!! I can take you to many a house that will have a 25
year old Rheem or Ruud that is still running and not a spec of rust on it
(O.K., maybe the fan blade on some of the older ones). No offence, but to
say Rheem is cheaply built and then praise Goodman??!!! You're crazy! My
main problem with Rheem is they were bought out (by some foreign company)
and they are getting to be a pain in the ass to deal with. Especially when
it comes to getting parts.

Frigidare is slightly above the Rheem/Rudd

Bullsh*t! (see above) Almost all of Nordyne's stuff (Frigidaire, Gibson,
Tappan, Kelvinator, etc.) is cheaply made!

Hey! How 'bout them Maytag stainless units!!!

brand as far as builds go, Lennox is almost a different animal
altogether, like their price, high,
and so is York and Trane, proprietary in their parts

I'll agree with you on that (Sorry CarolinaBreeze Man! ;-] ). When I first
started out, my boss installed Luxaires. I just remember going back to a
unit after a year and it had looked like it had been through a war! Grill
was completely rusted out, cabinet faded to some ungodly color, and NOISY!!!
I hated those things!
..

Stay away from Carrier/Bryant, worst line of units from them I've seen
in many years.

I used to feel that way about 10 years ago. They had a real problem with
****-poor units: Accumulators on heatpumps would peel, rust and develope
leaks within 5 years. Condensor coils would develope "stress cracks" (right
where you can't even get to them to repair, which you shouldn't HAVE TO
repair!), grills that would rust out in no time and look like sh*t.
But now they have improved. We have installed a LOT of units over the past
several years and have not had trouble with a one of them (O.K., a few of
the ECM motor modules went bad, but that's about it). I have one in my house
now for about 8 years and I haven't had to do a thing to it.
I think out of all the brands we sell, I put Carrier at the top of the list.
Second would have to be American Standard. Cabinets are not designed as nice
as Trane, but they have been [retty dependable so far. No problems with
them.


As many have stated before, the brand is only 10% of the job. 90% is HOW IT
IS INSTALLED!!!! Almost every brand now has an "upper line" in their models
where they offer 5 years parts/ 10 years on the compressor. A buddy of mine
(that has been trying to get my business) runs the Goodman warehouse (in the
DC area) and says that they offer a LIFETIME guarranty on their compressors
(for the original owner). I believe that is just on the higher seer
equipment, but that's a good selling point as far as trying to get their
reputation back with the contractors.

My take: Rheem/Ruud is a good brand, Trane is very nice but highly
overpriced (and I'm a Trane dealer). Lennox is decent equipment but is a
real PITA when getting parts. High end Carrier is good stuff, the lower
lines (Bryant, Payne, DayNight, etc) are pretty much builders grade stuff.
Goodman is junk, plain and simple, no matter how they paint the cabinets or
round the corners or add louvers - they've just prettying up the pig. Any
HVAC dealer can buy one - they're not a "dealered" brand - so the dealers
who "talk bad" about them are the ones who have decided not to install them
(as a side note, the newer units do appear to be better built). I don't care
for York, but then we don't see a lot of them around my area, no dealers and
no one really installs them. Anything Nordyne puts out (that includes your
Frigidaire, I believe) is cheaply made and not worth the money, in my
opinion.

You'll hear a lot of folks tell you that the installer is much more
important than the brand, and I fully agree - I'd rather have a poor quality
unit that's properly installed than a high quality unit put in by monkeys.
That said - if you install junk, you get junk. A great installation of junk
equipment is still ... junk equipment. Hire a good installer, and have them
install good eqiupment ...

I'd be VERY leery of a contractor quoting your $675 to move a furnace out of
a closet, into the crawlspace, extend ducts/electrical/gas/drain/flue etc
etc ... this is quite obviously a contractor looking to get their foot in
the door, and I'm betting they won't be on the job an hour before they find
something that "must be done right now, before we can go any further"
that'll tack on a couple bills to the cost ... and it'll just keep going
from there. If they DO perform the job for $675, ask them for the phone
numbers of a few of their competitors - you'll need it next year when you
need service and they're out of buisness ...

I'd also be leery of installing a package unit (like another poster
mentioned) and tieing in to your existing overhead duct system (assuming
it's overhead, that is). Doing this invariably results in poor performance,
poor airflow, increased run cost, and decreased system life. If you want a
package unit, do away with the overhead ducts, install a new duct system
(properly sized) and enjoy the comfort..

--
Scott McDaniel

"Mike Job" wrote in message
...
I currently have a 12 year old rheem split unit heat pump. The "A" coil is
in the closet and has a drainage problem. The water backed up spilled onto
my carpet and on the sheetrock and went under the wall into another room. I
know I will have to get the unit removed so that I can properly kill the
mold and mildew that will surely grow in there. So, I have two
questions..............

One. Is this unit worth moving into the crawlspace? I have plenty of room
under there, I just don't know if it is worth moving. If it does not have
pump-down valves, the freon will have to be reclaimed and then re-charged.
I will also have to have a horizontal drain pan. The ductwork is minimal,
assuming that the water has not seriously damaged the trunk line
underneath. Wiring is brought from underneath, so no junction is
necessary. A local contractor quoted 675 to do it, but I think some of
that was enhanced by the desire to sell me a new unit, or maybe not.

Two. If I do replace it, what brand of unit best fits my needs? We are
going to sell this house in about three years. I do not want to put a top
of the line unit in only to move and leave it three years from now. I
don't want to leave a poor quality unit in, but I think a large investment
would be wasted. I will need a 2.5 ton. I have an 11 seer now, so I want
to go to at least at 13 seer. Also, I think I would gain efficiency from
having a few problems fixed.(No reduction on trunk line currently,
Branches taken from very end of trunk line, relocation of thermostat from
foyer to hallway, proper size on liquid line{current liquid line is one
size smaller than what comes out on the condensor, it is pinched off and
brazed to accomodate a smaller line}) My primary concerns are enough
efficiency improvements to off-set some of the costs and a decent quality
unit that I would not be embarassed to show to someone wanting to buy the
house.

I am considering a Frigidaire unit and I have someone coming out to price
a carrier unit. I thought of having a York system priced and maybe a Rheem
or Ruud. I have heard alot of bad things about Lenox and Goodman, But
nothing from a proffessional who did not sell a competing unit.


It would be nice to get the advice of someone that has no financial
interest in my decision.

Background on the unit.
Rheem Classic XI, manufactured in 1993. Model Number is RPLA-024JAS.
(2-ton)

Thanks for any recommendations.

AMEN SCOTT.

However I have no trouble getting parts for Lennox.

The contractor should measure the existing air flow before he bids duct
modidfications. He should do a load calculation before bidding new
equipment. Goodman is better than Nordyne, but I would not put either
in my house. Goodman got less noisy with their last re-design, but
still louder than Lennox, Trane, Carrier. I don't want one outside my
bedroom window. Don't get anyones low end unit. depending on utility
costs, go middle to high for best performance, quiet, lifespan.

Stretch

"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in message
news:WeiNe.10951$Al5.8037@trnddc04...
Not giving you a hard time, MrKool. Just commenting on some of the things
you have posted:

"mrkool" wrote

I sell Amana and Heil and Goodman, now, if you read around these groups
much, I believe Goodman is getting a bad rap for no reason, now before
they bought Amana, they were pretty cheaply made, but now, they're
copying some of Amana's tricks, so much so, they now look ALmost alike,
same color, dark gray, same compressor, main difference is the cabinet
design and some of the components, expansion valves or metering device,
GE or Emerson motors,
but after installing all 3 systems, I'd install a Goodman in my house
without question, maybe not a gas pack, but then I've had some of my
worst problems with Amana gas packs, mainly a bad run of leaking evap
coils, what a pain.

Goodman got a bad rap (and they deserved it!) because they would sell unit
to ANYONE off the street. That meant any Joe Blow that said "I know how to
solder a pipe!" could pick one up and "install it". Now, I know everyone
says it's not brain surgery or rocket science, but if you have poor
methods like:

Goodman units are STILL crap.
I went to the local reps training..if you want to call it that, and I
swear..still using the same crap they were before..even the VS air handlers
are still the same crappy cheap stuff....sneeze on it and it dents.


1) Using soft (plummers) solder
2) not using nitrogen
3) not installing filter/driers
4) not using A VACUUM PUMP! (with proper manifold or micron guage)
5) not adjusting the charge after initial start up
6) etc., etc., etc......

I see it all the time. Person calls up wanting their unit serviced because
it's not working. Compressor is grounded out. "How can that be??!! It's
only 2 years old!!!" Then you look at the soldered joints, lack of
filter/drier, unit tilted towards the house, and just general ****-poor
job of installation and you KNOW that someone that wanted to make a quick
buck put it in. "Maam! This unit is under warranty. You need to all the
guy that put it in." and she says "I've been calling him for 2 months and
he doesn't return my calls". Why should he/she! They already got their
money.
The other thing is quality. I have seen 2 year-old units that have faded
to a (almost) pink and just LOOK terrible after a short time. Maybe they
have gotten better, but i am still not going to install one until they can
prove to me they are making a better product.


As far as Ruud and Rheem, they're the same unit, I've never like them,
after working on most brands, they seem to be one of the cheaply built
brands I've worked on.

Rheem? Cheaply built??!!! I can take you to many a house that will have a
25 year old Rheem or Ruud that is still running and not a spec of rust on
it (O.K., maybe the fan blade on some of the older ones). No offence, but
to say Rheem is cheaply built and then praise Goodman??!!! You're crazy!
My main problem with Rheem is they were bought out (by some foreign
company) and they are getting to be a pain in the ass to deal with.
Especially when it comes to getting parts.

Frigidare is slightly above the Rheem/Rudd

Bullsh*t! (see above) Almost all of Nordyne's stuff (Frigidaire, Gibson,
Tappan, Kelvinator, etc.) is cheaply made!

Amen...


Hey! How 'bout them Maytag stainless units!!!

How about em..replaced two already..gotta love that so called unit
replacement warranty..LOL


brand as far as builds go, Lennox is almost a different animal
altogether, like their price, high,
and so is York and Trane, proprietary in their parts

I'll agree with you on that (Sorry CarolinaBreeze Man! ;-] ). When I first
started out, my boss installed Luxaires. I just remember going back to a
unit after a year and it had looked like it had been through a war! Grill
was completely rusted out, cabinet faded to some ungodly color, and
NOISY!!! I hated those things!

Look...Luxaire is the Goodman of York.
I dont like them either....the cases ARE cheaper, the paint DOES fade.
However, I can bet that you were looking at prob an older BHR model..
Yorks new Affinity...nothings close to it that I have seen and I sell Trane
now too.

.

Stay away from Carrier/Bryant, worst line of units from them I've seen
in many years.

I used to feel that way about 10 years ago. They had a real problem with
****-poor units: Accumulators on heatpumps would peel, rust and develope
leaks within 5 years. Condensor coils would develope "stress cracks"
(right where you can't even get to them to repair, which you shouldn't
HAVE TO repair!), grills that would rust out in no time and look like
sh*t.
But now they have improved. We have installed a LOT of units over the past
several years and have not had trouble with a one of them (O.K., a few of
the ECM motor modules went bad, but that's about it). I have one in my
house now for about 8 years and I haven't had to do a thing to it.
I think out of all the brands we sell, I put Carrier at the top of the
list. Second would have to be American Standard. Cabinets are not designed
as nice as Trane, but they have been [retty dependable so far. No problems
with them.


As many have stated before, the brand is only 10% of the job. 90% is HOW
IT IS INSTALLED!!!! Almost every brand now has an "upper line" in their
models where they offer 5 years parts/ 10 years on the compressor. A buddy
of mine (that has been trying to get my business) runs the Goodman
warehouse (in the DC area) and says that they offer a LIFETIME guarranty
on their compressors (for the original owner). I believe that is just on
the higher seer equipment, but that's a good selling point as far as
trying to get their reputation back with the contractors.