I have these exorbitantly expensive built in through the wall a/c units.
They are so expensive mainly because they are supposed to go on and on and
on (and on)

They have virtually no features and are exceptionally old fashioned but the
replacement units (made by the same manufacturer or, - only, - one other
which will fit into these sleeves) are identical and equally old fashioned

There is a company around me which specialises in coming out free and
telling you that you need new units and that they will sell you new units
for some extraordinary amount of money. There used to be a guy in our
building who would service them EITHER cheaply by doing a quick clean job on
them so that 13,500 BThU units which actually give out about 6000 can give
out possibly as much as 9000. OR he could do what he called a more
appropriate job which we were putting off which involved taking the hwole
slip-in unit downstairs and steam-cleaning something underneath them to
restore the whole functionality of the unit, which we really need

He has departed for various health reasons. Now I have found a new company
which charges a call out charge to clean the units which doesn't actually
seem too expensive and an even smaller additional charge to do additional
units. But they seem to think that the cleaning process will take about a
half hour a unit.

Does anyone know how you steam-clean one of these units PROPERLY, which is
the difficult bit to steam clean on the underside, how important it is to do
this to get a 9000 unit back to 13,500 and how long it should take to do
this (by someone who does this every day)? I am reluctant to pay this
company the call out charge merely to be told that I need new units because
they want to sell me them. (I have been caught out that way once before when
I called the company with the largest ad in the yellow pages only to find
that they put this in BECAUSE it imparts credibility to a cowboy who will
come along and spin you a yarn about needing a new unit refurbished by him)

"news.rcn.com" news.rnc.com wrote in message
...
I have these exorbitantly expensive built in through the wall a/c units.
They are so expensive mainly because they are supposed to go on and on and
on (and on)

Isnt a unit made in the last 35 years that was supposed to go more than
12-15 years, but anyway...


They have virtually no features and are exceptionally old fashioned but
the replacement units (made by the same manufacturer or, - only, - one
other which will fit into these sleeves) are identical and equally old
fashioned

Since you havent given any information, the possibility of more than one
unit being able to be retro fitted may exist, but we dont know that.


There is a company around me which specialises in coming out free and
telling you that you need new units and that they will sell you new units
for some extraordinary amount of money.

Nothings free....keep that in mind.
It costs SOMEONE.
We give free estimates, and normally, they cost between $10 and $20 to ME,
not the person getting them.


There used to be a guy in our building who would service them EITHER
cheaply by doing a quick clean job on them so that 13,500 BThU units which
actually give out about 6000 can give out possibly as much as 9000.

And you ran the 75 different tests to determine this?


OR he could do what he called a more appropriate job which we were putting
off which involved taking the hwole slip-in unit downstairs and
steam-cleaning something underneath them to restore the whole
functionality of the unit, which we really need

Steam clean? Then you really got screwed.
You dont steam clean AC units..you chemically clean them, with a foaming
cleaner that gets into the coils and pushes out the crap in them.


He has departed for various health reasons. Now I have found a new
company which charges a call out charge to clean the units which doesn't
actually seem too expensive and an even smaller additional charge to do
additional units. But they seem to think that the cleaning process will
take about a half hour a unit.

For PTAC units, like you describe, that is prob about right to do it
properly.


Does anyone know how you steam-clean one of these units PROPERLY, which is
the difficult bit to steam clean on the underside, how important it is to
do this to get a 9000 unit back to 13,500 and how long it should take to
do this (by someone who does this every day)?

Steam clean...there is that term again..
To properly clean the unit, yes, we know how to do it, and we do it almost
daily.
How important it is? Well, you obviously are not getting the cooling you
need, or want, so, think about that for a sec...
How long should it take, all things being equal and since we cant see your
installation, where you are located at, how easy it would be to get them
out....1 hour to 3..

I am reluctant to pay this company the call out charge merely to be told
that I need new units because they want to sell me them. (I have been
caught out that way once before when I called the company with the largest
ad in the yellow pages only to find that they put this in BECAUSE it
imparts credibility to a cowboy who will come along and spin you a yarn
about needing a new unit refurbished by him)


First, if you buy a REBUILT unit, you are a fool...period. No other way to
put it.
Sure, many people can tell you stories about how they got a unit thats run
for the past 30 years and all it needed was this little part...but why in
hell are you buying someone elses ****?
Now, that said, you need to know that there are no salesmen in this world,
only consumers that do not know how to say no.
If you get someone out that says you need, must have, gotta get today and
for this low price we can do it now and YOU say yes, when the units are
running so so now, well, either one of two things is gonna happen, either
you are going to say Yes, do it now, or you are going to say no, just clean
the damn things like I asked.
Every so often, and its VERY rare, we get a call for service and we get
there and they have a 30 year old tank thats barely chugging along and isnt
long for this world. Then a real quandry kicks in...we service it and it
quits a week later, we get blamed for it as the bad AC company that came out
and destroyed their unit..it was running fine till we touched it...or, we
suggest a new unit, clean the old one, and its the one that runs for another
10 years and we look like a scam artist for even suggesting that the old one
get changed out...no matter that the things costing $500 a month to run when
it could be running under $100....
Make sure that if they do clean then, and suggest there are issues, that
they document everything..a good company will be able to do that.
If they are just PTAC units, service should consist of cleaning the evap
coil, the condensor, checking the cold controls for calibration, oiling the
motor, checking superheat on the unit since its prob gonna use old cap tubes
for metering, making sure you have a clean and non moldy drain, and pan, and
the possibility of a anti bac strip or slow disolve tab..something of tht
sort.
The cleanings should be done with something other than Purple Stuff as
well...Mean Green, or the like isnt a coil cleaner, but a legitimate company
will use NuCalgon or a similar product that is made for the sole intent of
cleaning AC coils.

Seems like you're really enjoying hating these (nameless) a/c boxes.
You make no mention of their energy-efficiency- which should be a major
factor in decision-making IMHO. Not to mention that your in-wall a/c
installation is likely a major air-leak.

Are you bound to having wall mounts?

Steam-cleaning? Not likely necessary unless you have lots of crap in
the air, or don't use a filter. You might pop the cover, give the fins
a spritz with garden hose, and oil the motor bushings. Do check that
low-side water drain hole is not blocked.

Presuming that, like most here, you're into DIY.

HTH,
J

Many thanks for your reply Carolina Breeze, which pretty much answers my
questions and shows me that the guy who had been quoting about $60 for a
peremptory cleaning and a couple of hundred for taking my units downstairs
to the basement for this supposed 'steam cleaning' was the one who was not
being entirely honest as opposed to these new guys who say they can do the
whole job in about a half an hour (assuming proper access to the units).
These guys want $120 for a CALL OUT fee to include one unit and $75 for each
additional unit which doesn't sound extortionate.

Isnt a unit made in the last 35 years that was supposed to go more than
12-15 years,

These units are PROBABLY about 20 years old (but I seem to remember when I
moved to New York at about that time, everyone was heavily into quoting EER
ratings, - especially on things like A/C units so I havent any REAL reason
to think that they are using an inordinate amount of electricity. There may
have been SOME advances made in energy efficiency in the intervening period
I suppose)

Since you havent given any information, the possibility of more than one
unit being able to be retro fitted may exist, but we dont know that.

They were made by a New York company called Ice Cap which keeps going bust
(so I am informed) because they give such lousy customer service. But the
only replacement which does heating in the winter as well as cooling in the
summer is CrusadeAir (?) whose units I was told are even worse (and have a
shorter life span) than the Ice Cap ones
And you ran the 75 different tests to determine this?
No, I have had Friedrichs units cooling a room properly in a few minutes
after turn on and these units just don't seem to cool properly however long
you leave them on and I cant believe they need such constant service, -
supposedly every year

Steam clean? Then you really got screwed.

I think that is the point, isnt it!

But they seem to think that the cleaning process will
take about a half hour a unit.

For PTAC units, like you describe, that is prob about right to do it
properly.
That is all I really needed to know: They slip out easily (Is it REALLY
not necessary to take the unit out and off of the parquet floor to do this
properly?)


Make sure that if they do clean then, and suggest there are issues, that
they document everything..a good company will be able to do that.
If they are just PTAC units, service should consist of cleaning the evap
coil, the condensor, checking the cold controls for calibration, oiling
the motor, checking superheat on the unit since its prob gonna use old cap
tubes for metering,

Not sure what a cap tube is: How do you check superheat and what do you do
if something needs attention here on a 20 year old unit? ( if it DOES use
old cap tubes) Can you for example upgrade cap tubes inexpensively with
noticeable effect on functionality or dont A/C units work like that?

making sure you have a clean and non moldy drain, and pan, and
the possibility of a anti bac strip or slow disolve tab..something of tht
sort.
The cleanings should be done with something other than Purple Stuff as
well...Mean Green, or the like isnt a coil cleaner, but a legitimate
company will use NuCalgon or a similar product that is made for the sole
intent of cleaning AC coils.

Many thanks for this advice

"news.rcn.com" news.rnc.com wrote in message
...
Many thanks for your reply Carolina Breeze, which pretty much answers my
questions and shows me that the guy who had been quoting about $60 for a
peremptory cleaning and a couple of hundred for taking my units downstairs
to the basement for this supposed 'steam cleaning' was the one who was not
being entirely honest as opposed to these new guys who say they can do the
whole job in about a half an hour (assuming proper access to the units).
These guys want $120 for a CALL OUT fee to include one unit and $75 for
each additional unit which doesn't sound extortionate.

Nope...thats about right for some areas.


Isnt a unit made in the last 35 years that was supposed to go more than
12-15 years,

These units are PROBABLY about 20 years old (but I seem to remember when
I moved to New York at about that time, everyone was heavily into quoting
EER ratings, - especially on things like A/C units so I havent any REAL
reason to think that they are using an inordinate amount of electricity.
There may have been SOME advances made in energy efficiency in the
intervening period I suppose)


20 year old PTACs are hogs....to be honest.
Todays are not too bad, considering, however I still would rather have a
mini split ductless over those.

Since you havent given any information, the possibility of more than one
unit being able to be retro fitted may exist, but we dont know that.

They were made by a New York company called Ice Cap which keeps going bust
(so I am informed) because they give such lousy customer service. But the
only replacement which does heating in the winter as well as cooling in
the summer is CrusadeAir (?) whose units I was told are even worse (and
have a shorter life span) than the Ice Cap ones
And you ran the 75 different tests to determine this?
No, I have had Friedrichs units cooling a room properly in a few minutes
after turn on and these units just don't seem to cool properly however
long you leave them on and I cant believe they need such constant
service, - supposedly every year

Steam clean? Then you really got screwed.

I think that is the point, isnt it!

Yup...and trying to keep that from happening again.


But they seem to think that the cleaning process will
take about a half hour a unit.

For PTAC units, like you describe, that is prob about right to do it
properly.
That is all I really needed to know: They slip out easily (Is it REALLY
not necessary to take the unit out and off of the parquet floor to do this
properly?)

Umm..yea..:-)
I dunno about you, but I would hate to have about 40 gallons of water that
will be used to rinse the cleaner out all over them.


Make sure that if they do clean then, and suggest there are issues, that
they document everything..a good company will be able to do that.
If they are just PTAC units, service should consist of cleaning the evap
coil, the condensor, checking the cold controls for calibration, oiling
the motor, checking superheat on the unit since its prob gonna use old
cap tubes for metering,

Not sure what a cap tube is: How do you check superheat and what do you
do if something needs attention here on a 20 year old unit? ( if it DOES
use old cap tubes) Can you for example upgrade cap tubes inexpensively
with noticeable effect on functionality or dont A/C units work like that?

Nope..cheaper to just get a new one, and most of the newer models still use
cap tubes..some use expansion valves, but they are on higher end models.


making sure you have a clean and non moldy drain, and pan, and
the possibility of a anti bac strip or slow disolve tab..something of tht
sort.
The cleanings should be done with something other than Purple Stuff as
well...Mean Green, or the like isnt a coil cleaner, but a legitimate
company will use NuCalgon or a similar product that is made for the sole
intent of cleaning AC coils.

Many thanks for this advice

No problem. Just insure yourself a safe and correct service and do NOT allow
a guy in your area by the name of Chris Young to service them....ever..for
anything....

20 year old PTACs are hogs....to be honest.
Todays are not too bad, considering, however I still would rather have a
mini split ductless over those.
I absolutely agree and had been looking to see when a Chinese one was going
to surface on the US market with some reliability report somehwe But
wouldnt fitting one of these in a 17th floor apartment which had been fitted
with through the wall sleeved units be extraordinarily expensive, both as to
labour and cost of buying 4 units?
Umm..yea..:-)
I dunno about you, but I would hate to have about 40 gallons of water that
will be used to rinse the cleaner out all over them.

Now you have REALLY answered my question: This is the answer I was looking
for: All I need to ask is whether the company will need to take them out and
downstairs where there are facilities to clean them all over with 40 gallons
of whatever it is or not. If I can get a NO (out of the dispatcher????) to
this question, I can tell that they are going to do a perfunctory job and
continue my search for someone to do it properly. (they sound like a
reputable company which has taken over from the pathetically inept
manufacturer)

do NOT allow
a guy in your area by the name of Chris Young to service them....ever..for
anything.... (does he work in New York? I thought all the A/C cowboys
here were Israeli?)

Look into getting a mini-split ductless heat pump instead.

You dont steam clean AC units..you chemically clean them, with a foaming
cleaner that gets into the coils and pushes out the crap in them.
But they seem to think that the cleaning process will take about a half
hour a unit.
For PTAC units, like you describe, that is prob about right to do it
properly.
The cleanings should be done with something other than Purple Stuff as
well...

You were right on almost all counts: Firstly they did what seems to have
been a good job for a fair price and most importantly for 24 year old units,
didnt try to sell me a new unit instead (they implied from an irregular
sound I COULD hear that a piston was going on one of the motors which might
need replacing on the next year or two: But on cleaning off the gunge from
the fans, - including some candle wax, - and reassembling the units, the
sound seems to have gone away even though they didn't oil anything).
Secondly the units appear to work properly now (except that I have no way of
telling how many BThUs they are putting out) but thirdly, they didnt do
anything to the coils except carefully brush and vacuum them and didn't seem
to intend to Nucalgon them (they didnt ask where they could properly clean
them, they just assumed they woudlnt need to). And all parts were included
in their price. These 12,500 BThU units have an eer of 8.1. How badly am I
doing on power use?