Hi Joseph, hope you are having a nice day

On 28-Jun-05 At About 15:15:21, Joseph Meehan wrote to All
Subject: A/C Needs Fixing

JM From: "Joseph Meehan"

JM Alan Smithee wrote:
My A/C is in need of repair. The first repair guy I called wouldn't
touch it. Said it was too old that fixing (the slow leak presumably)
would cost me as much as a new A/C. Then he hit me with the sales
pitch!! Can't they just top these things up with more R-12? Or
replace the coolant with something else? Currently the A/C blows
about 10 degrees F cooler than the room temperature, not quite cold
enough when the heat starts going up up up. Do I believe the repair
guy or get a second opinion?

JM No, they are not allowed to just top it off. If someone offers to
JM do so, you know one thing about them, they are not worried about
JM breaking the law, and I'll be they are equally unconcerned about
JM treating your fairly.

Wrong again Mr. Meehan. anything under 50 pounds can be topped off but I
would still fix the leak.



-= HvacTech2 =-


... "Things don't bug you if you don't think about them." -- Calvin

___ TagDude 0.92á+[DM]
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Hi cowboy, hope you are having a nice day

On 28-Jun-05 At About 09:01:26, cowboy wrote to All
Subject: A/C Needs Fixing

c From: "cowboy"

c "Alan Smithee" wrote in message
c news:1vhwe.1819993$Xk.49529@pd7tw3no...
My A/C is in need of repair. The first repair guy I called wouldn't
touch it. Said it was too old that fixing (the slow leak presumably)
would cost me as much as a new A/C. Then he hit me with the sales
pitch!! Can't they just top these things up with more R-12? Or
replace the coolant with something else? Currently the A/C blows
about 10 degrees F cooler than the room temperature, not quite cold
enough when the heat starts going up up up. Do I believe the repair
guy or get a second opinion?


c first of all, I believe I would suggest using R-22 to top it off,
c R-12 would really make things interesting!

What if it is an old R12 unit though?

-= HvacTech2 =-


... "I think that would affect my stomach more than my heart."

___ TagDude 0.92á+[DM]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++
spam protection measure, Please remove the 33 to send e-mail

My A/C is in need of repair. The first repair guy I called wouldn't touch
it. Said it was too old that fixing (the slow leak presumably) would cost me
as much as a new A/C. Then he hit me with the sales pitch!!
Can't they just top these things up with more R-12? Or replace the coolant
with something else? Currently the A/C blows about 10 degrees F cooler than
the room temperature, not quite cold enough when the heat starts going up up
up. Do I believe the repair guy or get a second opinion?

"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
news:1vhwe.1819993$Xk.49529@pd7tw3no...
My A/C is in need of repair. The first repair guy I called wouldn't touch
it. Said it was too old that fixing (the slow leak presumably) would cost
me
as much as a new A/C. Then he hit me with the sales pitch!!
Can't they just top these things up with more R-12? Or replace the
coolant
with something else? Currently the A/C blows about 10 degrees F cooler
than
the room temperature, not quite cold enough when the heat starts going up
up
up. Do I believe the repair guy or get a second opinion?

It is not legal just to top up a unit. The leak must be stopped. Yes, it
can cost as much to repair as it does for a new one.

Alan Smithee wrote:
My A/C is in need of repair. The first repair guy I called wouldn't
touch it. Said it was too old that fixing (the slow leak presumably)
would cost me as much as a new A/C. Then he hit me with the sales
pitch!! Can't they just top these things up with more R-12? Or
replace the coolant with something else? Currently the A/C blows
about 10 degrees F cooler than the room temperature, not quite cold
enough when the heat starts going up up up. Do I believe the repair
guy or get a second opinion?

No, they are not allowed to just top it off. If someone offers to do
so, you know one thing about them, they are not worried about breaking the
law, and I'll be they are equally unconcerned about treating your fairly.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news1iwe.5365$Bn6.4291@trndny08...

"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
news:1vhwe.1819993$Xk.49529@pd7tw3no...
My A/C is in need of repair. The first repair guy I called wouldn't
touch
it. Said it was too old that fixing (the slow leak presumably) would
cost
me
as much as a new A/C. Then he hit me with the sales pitch!!
Can't they just top these things up with more R-12? Or replace the
coolant
with something else? Currently the A/C blows about 10 degrees F cooler
than
the room temperature, not quite cold enough when the heat starts going
up
up
up. Do I believe the repair guy or get a second opinion?

It is not legal just to top up a unit. The leak must be stopped. Yes, it
can cost as much to repair as it does for a new one.


WRONG. If the unit capacity is over 50 pounds, the leak has to be fixed.

The best alternative is to have the leak found and repaired.

"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
news:1vhwe.1819993$Xk.49529@pd7tw3no...
My A/C is in need of repair. The first repair guy I called wouldn't touch
it. Said it was too old that fixing (the slow leak presumably) would cost
me
as much as a new A/C. Then he hit me with the sales pitch!!
Can't they just top these things up with more R-12? Or replace the
coolant
with something else? Currently the A/C blows about 10 degrees F cooler
than
the room temperature, not quite cold enough when the heat starts going up
up
up. Do I believe the repair guy or get a second opinion?


first of all, I believe I would suggest using R-22 to top it off, R-12 would
really make things interesting!

the repair guy is full of bull, it is like saying that my car doesn't run
right, therefore it would cost just as much to buy a new car

yeah, maybe if the transmission is burned up it might make sense, but for
most scenarios it is much cheaper to fix a car rather than replace it

same with your leak, unless it is in the condenser, it should be a small
fraction of the cost of replacing the unit just to fix a leak.

and even if it is the condenser, it is still sometimes cheaper to replace
the condenser rather than the entire unit, definitely cheaper to replace a
leaking compressor than a full unit

heck, I just welded a crack in my compressor that was leaking for about $4
in silver solder, even though I could have purchased the exact 3 1/2 ton
copeland scroll compressor for a very reasonable $340

remember one thing, technicians make a ton of money replacing a unit, much
more than fixing a leak, and the replacement is often an easier job,
especially with a package unit. So they get a ton more money for less work,
and you are none the wiser, in this republican, screw the poor world, it's
the American Way!

"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
news:1vhwe.1819993$Xk.49529@pd7tw3no...
My A/C is in need of repair. The first repair guy I called wouldn't touch
it. Said it was too old that fixing (the slow leak presumably) would cost
me
as much as a new A/C. Then he hit me with the sales pitch!!
Can't they just top these things up with more R-12? Or replace the
coolant
with something else? Currently the A/C blows about 10 degrees F cooler
than
the room temperature, not quite cold enough when the heat starts going up
up
up. Do I believe the repair guy or get a second opinion?


My condolences if your unit is R-12... That stuff is liquid gold where I
live.

Or do you mean R-22? Which aint cheap now days.

Replacing freon from one type to another is a nightmare even in the best of
situations.

The guy across the street from me just had a crane to his house and they
installed a used package unit on his roof.

Call a couple of others and see what they say. Then you will know if you
should believe him.

Joseph,

If the unit holds less than 50 pounds of refrigerant, IT IS LEGAL to
add refrigerant to a leaking system. Re-read the Federal Register, all
84 pages of it. Or read the 5 page summary. Both will tell you the
rule against topping off applies to systems with 50 pounds or over and
a 35% annual leak. Smaller systems can have freon added as long as it
is not leaking so bad it goes SSSSSSSSSSSS!


Stretch

Both will tell you the
rule against topping off applies to systems with 50 pounds or over and
a 35% annual leak.

Not exactly, it depends on the type of system. The EPA Leak Repair
Summary Page says that Commercial refrigeration & Industrial process
refrigeration systems (50 lbs. & Over) have to be repaired if the annual
leak rate is 35% or more.
Comfort cooling appliances & all other appliances (50lbs. & over) must
be repaired if the annual leak rate is 15% or more.

Check it out yourself: http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/608/leak.html

Cowboy,

Not ALL technicians are on commission, so your statement is not always
true, but yes some tech get paid good money if they talk you into
replacing your unit. The problem is many, but not all, "High
Performance Contractors". These contractors usually pay commissions on
parts replacements and bigger commissions on unit replacements. The
techs in these companies are usually the pushy ones. The more they
charge the customers, the bigger their commission is. I would
recommend another company be called. Look for the smaller ads in the
yellow pages.

Stretch

You'll get a variety of opinions here. I'm of the opinion that if it's
cooling at all, it's probably fixable.

At the moment, we don't have enough information. Would be nice to know the
brand and type of system, the age, and some information like that.

Since it's blowing cooler than the intake air temp, it means it's doing some
good. I'd suggest call a different repair tech.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
news:1vhwe.1819993$Xk.49529@pd7tw3no...
My A/C is in need of repair. The first repair guy I called wouldn't touch
it. Said it was too old that fixing (the slow leak presumably) would cost me
as much as a new A/C. Then he hit me with the sales pitch!!
Can't they just top these things up with more R-12? Or replace the coolant
with something else? Currently the A/C blows about 10 degrees F cooler than
the room temperature, not quite cold enough when the heat starts going up up
up. Do I believe the repair guy or get a second opinion?

"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
news:1vhwe.1819993$Xk.49529@pd7tw3no...
My A/C is in need of repair. The first repair guy I called wouldn't touch
it. Said it was too old that fixing (the slow leak presumably) would cost me
as much as a new A/C. Then he hit me with the sales pitch!!
Can't they just top these things up with more R-12? Or replace the coolant
with something else? Currently the A/C blows about 10 degrees F cooler than
the room temperature, not quite cold enough when the heat starts going up up
up. Do I believe the repair guy or get a second opinion?



This is Turtle.

Get a second opinion for your being given a sales pitch to buy a new unit. tell
him to gas it up or get out.

TURTLE

"SQLit" wrote in message
...

"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
news:1vhwe.1819993$Xk.49529@pd7tw3no...
My A/C is in need of repair. The first repair guy I called wouldn't touch
it. Said it was too old that fixing (the slow leak presumably) would cost
me
as much as a new A/C. Then he hit me with the sales pitch!!
Can't they just top these things up with more R-12? Or replace the
coolant
with something else? Currently the A/C blows about 10 degrees F cooler
than
the room temperature, not quite cold enough when the heat starts going up
up
up. Do I believe the repair guy or get a second opinion?


My condolences if your unit is R-12... That stuff is liquid gold where I
live.

Or do you mean R-22? Which aint cheap now days.


This is Turtle.

there is some R-12 HVAC system still around but they are no problem to deal with
for you replace the freon and oil with ester Oil and 134-A like in cars. now you
should recover all the R-12 and put all fresh R-134-a in it with new Ester oil.

If not there is still not a problem to top it off.

TURTLE

TURTLE wrote:
"SQLit" wrote in message
...

"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
news:1vhwe.1819993$Xk.49529@pd7tw3no...
My A/C is in need of repair. The first repair guy I called wouldn't
touch it. Said it was too old that fixing (the slow leak
presumably) would cost
me
as much as a new A/C. Then he hit me with the sales pitch!!
Can't they just top these things up with more R-12? Or replace the
coolant
with something else? Currently the A/C blows about 10 degrees F
cooler
than
the room temperature, not quite cold enough when the heat starts
going up
up
up. Do I believe the repair guy or get a second opinion?


My condolences if your unit is R-12... That stuff is liquid gold
where I live.

Or do you mean R-22? Which aint cheap now days.


This is Turtle.

there is some R-12 HVAC system still around but they are no problem
to deal with for you replace the freon and oil with ester Oil and
134-A like in cars. now you should recover all the R-12 and put all
fresh R-134-a in it with new Ester oil.

If not there is still not a problem to top it off.

TURTLE

Thanks everyone for the opinions. I think I will call another company to
have it looked at.

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:25:49 GMT, "Alan Smithee"
wrote:

My A/C is in need of repair. The first repair guy I called wouldn't touch
it. Said it was too old that fixing (the slow leak presumably) would cost me
as much as a new A/C. Then he hit me with the sales pitch!!
Can't they just top these things up with more R-12? Or replace the coolant
with something else? Currently the A/C blows about 10 degrees F cooler than
the room temperature, not quite cold enough when the heat starts going up up
up. Do I believe the repair guy or get a second opinion?

Is it a window unit? If so and it is really old, you might want to
consider a new model because it will be more energy efficient and may
have some worthwhile features (timers, etc.). If you don't get
electronic controls (remote control, etc.) and can install it
yourself, they are reasonably priced.

OTOH, if I remember correctly, I read that next year's models will be
even more efficient and there is the possibility of bringing back
(tax) incentives for replacing old ones. But still, you have to pay
to have your current one fixed in the meantime so that gets factored
into the cost of waiting.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

there is some R-12 HVAC system still around but they are no problem to
deal with for you replace the freon and oil with ester Oil and 134-A like
in cars. now you should recover all the R-12 and put all fresh R-134-a in
it with new Ester oil.


you can't do that in cars, often the o-rings in the hose connections and in
the compressor in an R-12 system will not tolerate ester oil or other 134a
oils such as PAG, beside how do you plan to remove all of the old mineral
oil with a complete system flush with solvent?

not to mention the fact that unless you replace the condensor with a
high-efficiency model, the cooling will be much less with 134a than it was
with R-12, because 134a is a much less efficient refrigerant

this is why the fins in the condenser in newer cars are much more tiny than
they were before about 1994 or so


cheers!

cowboy
auto A/C oracle

As I'm learning, AC units have many other problems. Low on freon is only one
of many problems AC can have.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
news:1vhwe.1819993$Xk.49529@pd7tw3no...
My A/C is in need of repair. The first repair guy I called wouldn't touch
it. Said it was too old that fixing (the slow leak presumably) would cost
me
as much as a new A/C. Then he hit me with the sales pitch!!
Can't they just top these things up with more R-12? Or replace the
coolant
with something else? Currently the A/C blows about 10 degrees F cooler
than
the room temperature, not quite cold enough when the heat starts going up
up
up. Do I believe the repair guy or get a second opinion?



This is Turtle.

Get a second opinion for your being given a sales pitch to buy a new unit.
tell
him to gas it up or get out.

TURTLE

I've worked on a lot of coolers, refrigerators, etc. Been using R-409A, and
had very good results with it.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"SQLit" wrote in message
...

Can't they just top these things up with more R-12? Or replace the
coolant
with something else?
My condolences if your unit is R-12... That stuff is liquid gold where I
live.

Or do you mean R-22? Which aint cheap now days.


This is Turtle.

there is some R-12 HVAC system still around but they are no problem to deal
with
for you replace the freon and oil with ester Oil and 134-A like in cars. now
you
should recover all the R-12 and put all fresh R-134-a in it with new Ester
oil.

If not there is still not a problem to top it off.

TURTLE

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
As I'm learning, AC units have many other problems. Low on freon is only one
of many problems AC can have.

--

Christopher A. Young

This is Turtle.

Stormy , the service man told the customer that he could not refill the system
with the right freon legally and would want to sell them a new unit. He could
gas it up if he wanted too but he did not offer it. 134-A & 409-A for 12 and 22
is still for 22 systems is a options and also they have a leak stop for leaking
systems now sold today. The fellow just did not want to fool with it.

TURTLE