Hi there,

I am having a hell of a time finding someone to help jack up my beam
and re-support it. I have talked with (and had over for estimates) a
number of contractors, and NOT ONE of them will even pay deference to
the idea that the beam probably should not be jacked the full 1 1/2 to
2 inches in *one* afternoon!! When I questioned one guy about his
"jack-it-now" approach and about the fact that he didn't mention
digging any footings in the slab, he said "well yeah... that WOULD be
safer and better, I guess..."

What is "I guess?" Ugh! frustration.

I am getting exasperated, and was hoping for a TOTAL ballpark cost idea
from anyone out there regarding the potential for replacing the
existing beam with steel instead. (That way I can avoid all the
run-around I seem to be getting about jacking the beam instantly
(probably breaking it), totally questionable issues between the various
contractors regarding how deep to dig footings (have rec'd opinions
ranging from 'don't dig at all' to 'four feet', etc.

Anyone know totally generally how much this would be for a ~24 ft span?
when I say *generally* i mean even as ballpark as "between 2500 and
5000" -- must any more specific would also be appreciated. My
curiousity is whether eliminating at least some of the need for cutting
the slab, pouring concrete, and so on would offset the presumably
higher price but lower level of manual labor involved in replacing the
beam w/steel. Can a steel beam hold a 24' span w/o support posts (or at
least without lots of them)?

Any first-hand experiences with such a project??

Thanks so much in advance -- it's not so eay to find this kind of
focuses information via regular google searches, and I am just thinking
of overall feasibility at this point before I bother to call people
over to check it out again (and re-start the run-around).

"Beantown" wrote in message
ups.com...
My
curiousity is whether eliminating at least some of the need for cutting
the slab, pouring concrete, and so on would offset the presumably
higher price but lower level of manual labor involved in replacing the
beam w/steel. Can a steel beam hold a 24' span w/o support posts (or at
least without lots of them)?

Any first-hand experiences with such a project??


I helped a friend build a house about 15 years ago. We used a steel beam to
support a 28 foot span. The size of the beam will determine how large a
span and if supports are needed. The two ends are supported by the
foundation.

In any case, the building inspector asked that one center support be used.
We did dig a footing about 2' deep. Since is was in the center of the house,
frost line was not a concern.

I have no idea of the cost to do a replacement.

A house builder or engineer will know, you got a few idiots in. Can a
24ft piece of steel be moved in. Even a beam large enough to hold
without a mid support could be even more trouble and cost. You need
supports on both sides while you remove and instal the new one, and good
new footers. If old beam if not rotted leave it in. Jacking that hight
should be done over 2 months but may not be possible as windows and
doors may not work and walls will crack. Even joists settled over time
will split needing sistering of new joists. Ive done a few I would get
3 jacks mid floor set up. And 2 end if those supports are not good. Get
footings poured under the jacks and DIY over months monitoring doors
windows walls, joists , floors etc. How much you go up depends on alot
of things and even now no one knows nor will you till you see the
adverse affects. Jacks for 3, 45$ -150$ depending on how big your load
is. Concrete 6- 8 bags a hole 100$ for 3. Rent a electric demolition
hammer 55- 75$ a day a half day will do it. Labor for digging and
footings 150-500$ You can do it all or just the jacking as you should,
as that takes measurements and alot of time and care.

To hire someone and a price I guess 1500 and up to whatever someone
things they can get 5000 even, but the real time needs to be you in
jacking, or someone not going more than 1/16" every few days and
checking everything affected.

Hi there,

Thanks for the preliminary advice. I would, in fact, be happy to do the
screwing - the problem is, I can't find any screw jacks for purchase in
my area! (I'm in Boston.)

The only ones that I can find aren't intended to screw as you go and
push things upwards. Instead, they're just "adjustable posts" that you
adjust to the size of the space as it currently is and tighten it up.
They offer no "jacking" aspect whatsoever.

Suggestions?
Thanks!

Beantown wrote:
Hi there,

Thanks for the preliminary advice. I would, in fact, be happy to do the
screwing - the problem is, I can't find any screw jacks for purchase in
my area! (I'm in Boston.)

The only ones that I can find aren't intended to screw as you go and
push things upwards. Instead, they're just "adjustable posts" that you
adjust to the size of the space as it currently is and tighten it up.
They offer no "jacking" aspect whatsoever.

Suggestions?
Thanks!


Bet there's a place where you could rent them.
Yellow Pages.

Jim

"Speedy Jim" wrote in message

The only ones that I can find aren't intended to screw as you go and
push things upwards. Instead, they're just "adjustable posts" that you
adjust to the size of the space as it currently is and tighten it up.
They offer no "jacking" aspect whatsoever.

Suggestions?
Thanks!


Bet there's a place where you could rent them.
Yellow Pages.

Jim

Probably, but since he'll need them for a couple of months, he cold easily
buy them for the cost of a week's rental. Thee is a world outside of Boston
also. Sometimes you just have to go searching.

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:01:29 -0500, (m Ransley)
wrote:

A house builder or engineer will know, you got a few idiots in. Can a
24ft piece of steel be moved in. Even a beam large enough to hold
without a mid support could be even more trouble and cost. You need
supports on both sides while you remove and instal the new one, and good
new footers. If old beam if not rotted leave it in. Jacking that hight
should be done over 2 months but may not be possible as windows and
doors may not work and walls will crack. Even joists settled over time
will split needing sistering of new joists. Ive done a few I would get
3 jacks mid floor set up. And 2 end if those supports are not good. Get
footings poured under the jacks and DIY over months monitoring doors
windows walls, joists , floors etc. How much you go up depends on alot
of things and even now no one knows nor will you till you see the
adverse affects. Jacks for 3, 45$ -150$ depending on how big your load
is. Concrete 6- 8 bags a hole 100$ for 3. Rent a electric demolition
hammer 55- 75$ a day a half day will do it. Labor for digging and
footings 150-500$ You can do it all or just the jacking as you should,
as that takes measurements and alot of time and care.

I agree with the DIY suggestion. You will never be happy with
someone else's work and they are a fool if they take on your project
with your attitude.

It's your beam and you seem a bit picky about it so DIY. You can
rent all the equipment and do the jacking at 1/16 a day if that make
you feel better.

I'm a she, but that's OK. ; ) I'm a handy she. : ) : )

On 13 Apr 2005 06:16:56 -0700, "Beantown"
wrote:

Hi there,

I am having a hell of a time finding someone to help jack up my beam
and re-support it. I have talked with (and had over for estimates) a
number of contractors, and NOT ONE of them will even pay deference to
the idea that the beam probably should not be jacked the full 1 1/2 to


What is the original problem? Is the beam bending sinking at
one end, or rotting? Have you gone and added extra weight
above it somehow? What's holding it up now?

If the beam isn't rotting, you don't need to replace it.
If the existing POSTS (or whatever holds the beam up)
are adequate, then you don't need new footings or
posts, you just crank the beam back to wherever you
want it, and bolt steel or wood to the sides of it.

Alternatively, if you're adding posts, you shouldn't
need to beef up the beam. If the beam in question
is in the basement, and the basement floor is in decent
shape, you could probably get buy with just a steel plate
to keep the post from punching through the floor, but
that depends on what you're holding up.

Normal people just shove a jack-post in place,
crank the sucker up and leave it there.

--Goedjn

Menards, HD, Lowes has them, common item. An adjustable post may be it
if it screws out. They have weight ratings, is this one-2
story-brick-wood. Menards will order heavier rated ones or have some in
stock, Orange Vs grey. Screw jacks- building support colums they are
called different names. Im sure you have alot of supply houses in the
area. As long as it screws out it will work if you get the load right.

If you put all the centers weight on posts jacking probably will crack
the floor then sink again. If it was built right it would not have sunk
in the first place. Forget steel replacement if beam is not rotted.
Unless you want the space and are willing to pay, But if it is low it
still has to be raised over time. An amateur could also have a disaster
for you as load on both sides must be transfered off the beam and not
shift. Jacking is easy beam replacement is not.

Actually it sort of U's downward toward the center b/c the original
brick support column has settled/shrunk over the ~105 years the house
has been standing...

It's not rotting at all, in fact. The only reason I began inquiring
about steel was that people keep warning me that since the beam is so
old it might not want to unbend and might crack instead or keep its U
shape but simply lift upwards.

It will bend just not in a day or 2 do it over months the real damage
will be joists and upstairs if not carefull, Doors and windows wont
work, that is where you need to stop and reasess it.

On 13 Apr 2005 09:20:54 -0700, "Beantown"
wrote:

Actually it sort of U's downward toward the center b/c the original
brick support column has settled/shrunk over the ~105 years the house
has been standing...

It's not rotting at all, in fact. The only reason I began inquiring
about steel was that people keep warning me that since the beam is so
old it might not want to unbend and might crack instead or keep its U
shape but simply lift upwards.

In that case, what you want is to get a pair of 4x4s and bottle-jacks,
crank the beam up 1/4" every couple days, and shove metal shims
on top of the masonry pillar, until it's right.

And mark the pillar somehow so you can tell if it's still moving.

Beantown wrote:
Hi there,

Thanks for the preliminary advice. I would, in fact, be happy to do
the screwing - the problem is, I can't find any screw jacks for
purchase in my area! (I'm in Boston.)

The only ones that I can find aren't intended to screw as you go and
push things upwards. Instead, they're just "adjustable posts" that you
adjust to the size of the space as it currently is and tighten it up.
They offer no "jacking" aspect whatsoever.

Suggestions?
Thanks!

Use a hydraulic jack, then set the screws.

Also, just guessing, but I don't think you need concrete footings - just a
honkin' big sheet of thick steel.

2926T13
Screw Jack 12 Ton Cap, 3-3/4" Max Lift, 9-3/4" Min Height
In stock at $82.93 Each

www.mcmaster.com

use two, use a 4x4 from the top of the jack to the bottom of the beam.
Strp the 4x4 to the beam so it doesn't fall. Jack it up in small
increments over a long time at you r leisure. When the beam is up
where you want it, remove& replace or repair the brick column & it
foundation, let the beam back onto the column.

Unless you're really handy & know exactly what you are doing but
discuss the fix with an engineer & you can DIY with confidence. It
you did this yourself your cost would b minimal beyond the engineering
consult., it's mostly time

btw yes a steel beam can span 24' but again you need some who
understands the construciton of your house & can do the calcs.

cheers
Bob

in defense of the contractors, time is money; they want to get in & get
out fast. Old houses typically need a lot of TLC. Not exactly,
compatible with contractor way of doing stuff, unless it's T&M.

I had a similar problem a few years ago. I got two proposals. The first one
was to install 2 screw jacks over new concrete footings (about $1,000). Most
of the cost was the time to pour the footings since a lot of digging in a
very shallow crawlspace had to be done by hand. The second solution was to
replace the 2x8 feet span wood beams with one steel beam. I think the cost
was approx in the $5,000 range.

"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...
2926T13
Screw Jack 12 Ton Cap, 3-3/4" Max Lift, 9-3/4" Min Height
In stock at $82.93 Each

www.mcmaster.com

use two, use a 4x4 from the top of the jack to the bottom of the beam.
Strp the 4x4 to the beam so it doesn't fall. Jack it up in small
increments over a long time at you r leisure. When the beam is up
where you want it, remove& replace or repair the brick column & it
foundation, let the beam back onto the column.

Unless you're really handy & know exactly what you are doing but
discuss the fix with an engineer & you can DIY with confidence. It
you did this yourself your cost would b minimal beyond the engineering
consult., it's mostly time

btw yes a steel beam can span 24' but again you need some who
understands the construciton of your house & can do the calcs.

cheers
Bob

in defense of the contractors, time is money; they want to get in & get
out fast. Old houses typically need a lot of TLC. Not exactly,
compatible with contractor way of doing stuff, unless it's T&M.

Beans,

Have you considered hiring a civil engineer to look at your problem and
propose solutions? If he proposes jacking then he may be willing to name a
few contractors and give you a guess at cost. No one in this newsgroup can
give you a good guesstimate. There are too many factors that are job
specific.

Good luck,
Dave M.

When we had our foundation replaced, it took about two days to
get all the equipment in place, but the actual jacking up of the
house took about half an hour to lift the whole thing 4 feet.

Rather than traditional screw jacks, they used centrally-
controlled hydraulic jacks so that the whole house lifted evenly,
no cracking, no split beams, doors and windows still opened and
closed normally, etc. Much faster and less disruptive than my
previous experience of lifting a house with screw jacks, and well
worth the cost of having a professional with the right tools.

The house was lifted on two steel I-beams supported near the
ends, around 30-foot span between jacks.

While it was up in the air getting the new foundation poured, we
took the opportunity to sister every floor joist whether it
needed it or not -- how often do you get a chance to work under
the floor with 4-foot clearance and no foundation walls in the
way?

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Books for Bicycle Mechanics and Tinkerers:
http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/bikebooks.html

In article ,
says...

Also, just guessing, but I don't think you need concrete footings - just a
honkin' big sheet of thick steel.

If you're talking about temporary footings for the jacks, wood
works fine, say 4x8 or wider timbers, long enough to spread the
load and not compress the soil too much.

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Books for Bicycle Mechanics and Tinkerers:
http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/bikebooks.html

Since the main column you have now settled 2" doing a footer first is
smart, work without one and you may end up redoing it all over down the
road. If the original pillar was done right it never would have sunk 2".

So what you're saying is she has a choice of having someone with
professional credentials, training , and experience come out and actually
look at her problem, give advice, and make recommendations or she can go
with you, someone who has never seen her problem but thinks that screw jacks
are the answer. That's a tough decision.

Dave M.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:33:09 -0500, wrote:

On 14 Apr 2005 02:24:22 -0700, "BobK207" wrote:

2926T13
Screw Jack 12 Ton Cap, 3-3/4" Max Lift, 9-3/4" Min Height
In stock at $82.93 Each

www.mcmaster.com

use two, use a 4x4 from the top of the jack to the bottom of the beam.
Strp the 4x4 to the beam so it doesn't fall. Jack it up in small
increments over a long time at you r leisure. When the beam is up
where you want it, remove& replace or repair the brick column & it
foundation, let the beam back onto the column.

Unless you're really handy & know exactly what you are doing but
discuss the fix with an engineer & you can DIY with confidence. It
you did this yourself your cost would b minimal beyond the engineering
consult., it's mostly time

btw yes a steel beam can span 24' but again you need some who
understands the construciton of your house & can do the calcs.

cheers
Bob

in defense of the contractors, time is money; they want to get in & get
out fast. Old houses typically need a lot of TLC. Not exactly,
compatible with contractor way of doing stuff, unless it's T&M.


Yep, that's right. Pay some professional about $20.000 to fill out 12
reams of paper to analyze the problem, and then he will go to HD and
buy a few screw jacks for about $50 to $100 each and jack the thing
up. *OR* Save the $20K and just buy the screw jacks yourself, and
raise it a little every week. Of course, keep in mind that it will be
on your conscience that the professional will have to eat hamburgers
and mashed potatoes instead of caviar, lobster, and t-bone steaks.

If your basement floor is lousy, put in foundations. If it's solid,
jack it right off the floor, but get a 16 inch or larger piece of at
least 1/2" thick steel under the post, and another the width of the
beam under the wood. Go to any welding and metal working shop and
they will cut it for you to size.

Screw posts involve screwing. If you dont know how to screw, hire the
professional and but save enough money for your divorce.

Some people like to make things far too complicated.

PS. The first week you can probably raise it 1/2 inch. After that,
give it one half turn every few days, or no more than 1/4" per week.
Keep an eye on your doors and windows upstairs, and prepare to patch
plaster cracks. Remember, the house used to be straight (usually), so
you are only putting it back where it belongs, but there has been
patching and door adjustments made over the years.

Mark

Right on, brother. I like the way you talk.

I have lost all respect for the jerks who come in to a newgroup and
the only advice they can pull out of their butt is to say "Hire a
professional".

What a cop out and waste of cyber space.


JimL

On 18-Apr-2005, wrote:

I am a farmer, and a handyman, and have been a handyman for
nearly 30 years. I have jacked up many sagging houses, inclusing
several of my own.

This makes you an expert? There are ways to jack a beam that will
cause the beam to fail that will almost never be expected by someone
like yourself. They teach that stuff to first-year engineering
students to show examples of why some things are not so intuitive.
Your method can turn a "cheap" lift into a $30,000 repair job
real fast.

Just because you've been lucky doesn't mean you know what you're doing.
The pros are there because most folks don't have a clue what they are
doing. Advice on the internet is only worth the money you pay for it.

Mike

Yea Mike rag on, how many have you done, zero I bet. There has been good
info here unlike her" Pros". Ive done a few and so far you havnt said
anything but the ol hire a pro routine, pure BS.

"Michael Daly" wrote in message

Just because you've been lucky doesn't mean you know what you're doing.
The pros are there because most folks don't have a clue what they are
doing. Advice on the internet is only worth the money you pay for it.

Mike

Nor does the lack of an engineering degree make him NOT know what he is
doing. Some of them old farmers are much wiser than book learned diploma
carrying graduates.

On 18-Apr-2005, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

Nor does the lack of an engineering degree make him NOT know what he is
doing.

But he's not going to do the work. He's recommending that someone he
doesn't know and who has an unknown level of knowledge or experience
do the work.

Mike