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Electrical: Joining Wires
I'm installing PS 1/PS 5 Air Seal Recessed Housing from Thomas Lighting
(purchased from Menards). I have two basic questions concerning the joining of wires when wiring up these lights. 1) I know when you join two solid wires together you're supposed to wind them clockwise around each other. Also, when you join a single stand wire to a solid you're supposed to first wrap the strand end around the solid wire, then bend the solid wire over the stranded wire. My question, then, is what do you do when you have two solid wires and 1 stranded wire to connect together. 2) Also, concerning the particular lighting described above, when connecting additional outl, a contractor friend of mine attaches (wraps) both ground wires together, and then sends them back up through the knockout - as opposed to doing what the directions say, namely, hook the ground to the green wires, etc. What is the correct way to do this (or are they both ok?), as well as advantages/disadvantages to each? Thanks, Wes |
#2
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Some wirenuts require twisting and some don't. Just be sure that when you've
finished tightening the connector, that all wires are tight. Fixture grounds should be continuous, which is, the one coming in, the one going out, and the one attached to the fixture should be connected together. People do have preferences about various methods and materials "Wes Stebbins" wrote in message ... I'm installing PS 1/PS 5 Air Seal Recessed Housing from Thomas Lighting (purchased from Menards). I have two basic questions concerning the joining of wires when wiring up these lights. 1) I know when you join two solid wires together you're supposed to wind them clockwise around each other. Also, when you join a single stand wire to a solid you're supposed to first wrap the strand end around the solid wire, then bend the solid wire over the stranded wire. My question, then, is what do you do when you have two solid wires and 1 stranded wire to connect together. 2) Also, concerning the particular lighting described above, when connecting additional outl, a contractor friend of mine attaches (wraps) both ground wires together, and then sends them back up through the knockout - as opposed to doing what the directions say, namely, hook the ground to the green wires, etc. What is the correct way to do this (or are they both ok?), as well as advantages/disadvantages to each? Thanks, Wes |
#3
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Wes wrote:
Also, when you join a single stand wire to a solid you're supposed to first wrap the strand end around the solid wire, then bend the solid wire over the stranded wire. If you bend the wires over like that, the wire nut won't work as well. A good quality wire nut has a spiral springinside it that squeezes the wires together and holds them under tension. If the wire nuts that came with the fixtures don't have springs in them, throw them away and go buy good wire nuts and use them. There are different size wire nuts, get the right size for the wires that you are using. There is usually a chart on the box showing how many of each size that you can join with each wire nut. There are grounding wire nuts (Green) that have a hole in the end. You leave one solid wire long, it goes through the end. After you tighten the wire nut, the exposed wire end goes around the ground screw. Stretch |
#4
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So, then, to expand my original questions
1) Is there not a "specific" technique for wiring 1 stranded wire to two solid (14 gage) wires? (Of course, by "two solid" I mean the light's white stranded wire to two white wires - one coming in, one going out - the same for the black and ditto for the grounds. 2) Is either method for the ground wires ok, i.e., (a) my contractor/friend's running the solid ground wires back up throught the knockout (not even connecting to the light's green wire ground, but the two solid ground wires, of course, touching the light's metal box in the process) vs. (b, per instructions for the lights) connecting the two solid ground wires to the light's green wire? Thanks again, Wes "Wes Stebbins" wrote in message ... I'm installing PS 1/PS 5 Air Seal Recessed Housing from Thomas Lighting (purchased from Menards). I have two basic questions concerning the joining of wires when wiring up these lights. 1) I know when you join two solid wires together you're supposed to wind them clockwise around each other. Also, when you join a single stand wire to a solid you're supposed to first wrap the strand end around the solid wire, then bend the solid wire over the stranded wire. My question, then, is what do you do when you have two solid wires and 1 stranded wire to connect together. 2) Also, concerning the particular lighting described above, when connecting additional outl, a contractor friend of mine attaches (wraps) both ground wires together, and then sends them back up through the knockout - as opposed to doing what the directions say, namely, hook the ground to the green wires, etc. What is the correct way to do this (or are they both ok?), as well as advantages/disadvantages to each? Thanks, Wes |
#5
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Use a good wirenut, do not "fold" any wires back. When joining stranded to
solid wire, leave the stranded wire about 1/16 longer than the solid, and twist the wirenut on firmly. pull on the individual wires to make sure they are connected well. Do not just shove the ground wires thru a knockout. wirenut them to the ground wire in the fixture, or run a pigtail to the grounding screw. you want to make sure that the ground wires are secured well. |
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Wes Stebbins wrote:
I'm installing PS 1/PS 5 Air Seal Recessed Housing from Thomas Lighting (purchased from Menards). I have two basic questions concerning the joining of wires when wiring up these lights. 1) I know when you join two solid wires together you're supposed to wind them clockwise around each other. Also, when you join a single stand wire to a solid you're supposed to first wrap the strand end around the solid wire, then bend the solid wire over the stranded wire. My question, then, is what do you do when you have two solid wires and 1 stranded wire to connect together. I have never trusted stranded wire connetions. I've seen too many go bad (mainly from corrosion over time) & cause problems. I solder. It takes a few extra minutes, but in my view, it's always worth it. If you want something that can be taken apart later, you can also 'tin' the stranded ends (with solder), effectively making them solid. That gives the wire nut something to dig into, and keeps the corrosion in check. |
#7
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In article , Robert Barr wrote:
I have never trusted stranded wire connetions. I've seen too many go bad (mainly from corrosion over time) & cause problems. I solder. It takes a few extra minutes, but in my view, it's always worth it. Note, however, that the National Electrical Code requires that a mechanical fastener (such as a wire nut) must be used _in_addition_ to the solder. A connection made by solder alone is a Code violation. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time? |
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Note, however, that the National Electrical Code requires that a mechanical fastener (such as a wire nut) must be used _in_addition_ to the solder. A connection made by solder alone is a Code violation. I always add a wire nut, but not for NEC -- more like sloth. It's difficult to insulate the connection otherwise. Almost impossible with just electrical tape. I've examined the solder-dipped connections on my home (65 y.o.), and it takes all day to pull off the fabric / tar taping. I have to use pliers. Those guys didn't screw around, which is the way I like it, but the connections are huge, about the size of my thumb or better. A wire nut is so much easier... -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) |
#9
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I have never trusted stranded wire connetions. I've seen too many go
bad (mainly from corrosion over time) & cause problems. I solder. It takes a few extra minutes, but in my view, it's always worth it. Note, however, that the National Electrical Code requires that a mechanical fastener (such as a wire nut) must be used _in_addition_ to the solder. A connection made by solder alone is a Code violation. What about electrical tape wrapped around a soldered connection? Is that a "mechanical fastener"? It insulates the connection, at least. |
#10
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In article , Bert Byfield wrote:
I have never trusted stranded wire connetions. I've seen too many go bad (mainly from corrosion over time) & cause problems. I solder. It takes a few extra minutes, but in my view, it's always worth it. Note, however, that the National Electrical Code requires that a mechanical fastener (such as a wire nut) must be used _in_addition_ to the solder. A connection made by solder alone is a Code violation. What about electrical tape wrapped around a soldered connection? Is that a "mechanical fastener"? No. It insulates the connection, at least. That's not the point. The Code requires that the connection be mechanically and electrically secure even _without_ the solder. You can't achieve that with tape. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time? |
#11
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Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Robert Barr wrote: I have never trusted stranded wire connetions. I've seen too many go bad (mainly from corrosion over time) & cause problems. I solder. It takes a few extra minutes, but in my view, it's always worth it. Note, however, that the National Electrical Code requires that a mechanical fastener (such as a wire nut) must be used _in_addition_ to the solder. A connection made by solder alone is a Code violation. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time? Can you quote me chapter and verse on that assertion. I am unaware of any such provision in the code except that "Connections depending solely on solder shall not be used" in attaching Equipment Grounding Conductors to boxes. A splice that is made up mechanically and then soldered is perfectly acceptable as is shown by the reference in 250.148 to 110.14. 250.148 Continuity and Attachment of Equipment Grounding Conductors to Boxes. Where circuit conductors are spliced within a box, or terminated on equipment within or supported by a box, any separate equipment grounding conductors associated with those circuit conductors shall be spliced or joined within the box or to the box with devices suitable for the use. Connections depending solely on solder shall not be used. Splices shall be made in accordance with 110.14(B) except that insulation shall not be required. ... 110.14 Electrical Connections. Because of different characteristics of dissimilar metals, devices such as pressure terminal or pressure splicing connectors and soldering lugs shall be identified for the material of the conductor and shall be properly installed and used. Conductors of dissimilar metals shall not be intermixed in a terminal or splicing connector where physical contact occurs between dissimilar conductors (such as copper and aluminum, copper and copper-clad aluminum, or aluminum and copper-clad aluminum), unless the device is identified for the purpose and conditions of use. Materials such as solder, fluxes, inhibitors, and compounds, where employed, shall be suitable for the use and shall be of a type that will not adversely affect the conductors, installation, or equipment. (B) Splices. Conductors shall be spliced or joined with splicing devices identified for the use or by brazing, welding, or soldering with a fusible metal or alloy. Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered. -- Tom H |
#12
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In article .net, HorneTD wrote:
Doug Miller wrote: In article , Robert Barr wrote: I have never trusted stranded wire connetions. I've seen too many go bad (mainly from corrosion over time) & cause problems. I solder. It takes a few extra minutes, but in my view, it's always worth it. Note, however, that the National Electrical Code requires that a mechanical fastener (such as a wire nut) must be used _in_addition_ to the solder. A connection made by solder alone is a Code violation. Can you quote me chapter and verse on that assertion. I am unaware of any such provision in the code except that "Connections depending solely on solder shall not be used" in attaching Equipment Grounding Conductors to boxes. A splice that is made up mechanically and then soldered is perfectly acceptable as is shown by the reference in 250.148 to 110.14. That, of course, is _exactly_ what I said: a mechanical fastener must be used in addition to the solder. And you cited the relevant portion of the Code yourself: 110.14 Electrical Connections. [...] (B) Splices. [...] Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time? |
#13
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Doug Miller wrote: In article .net, HorneTD wrote: Doug Miller wrote: In article , Robert Barr wrote: I have never trusted stranded wire connetions. I've seen too many go bad (mainly from corrosion over time) & cause problems. I solder. It takes a few extra minutes, but in my view, it's always worth it. Note, however, that the National Electrical Code requires that a mechanical fastener (such as a wire nut) must be used _in_addition_ to the solder. A connection made by solder alone is a Code violation. Can you quote me chapter and verse on that assertion. I am unaware of any such provision in the code except that "Connections depending solely on solder shall not be used" in attaching Equipment Grounding Conductors to boxes. A splice that is made up mechanically and then soldered is perfectly acceptable as is shown by the reference in 250.148 to 110.14. That, of course, is _exactly_ what I said: a mechanical fastener must be used in addition to the solder. And you cited the relevant portion of the Code yourself: 110.14 Electrical Connections. [...] (B) Splices. [...] Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered. Actually, this means that the wires should be twisted together to make a solid connection prior to being soldered as opposed to just having the wires next to each other and soldered. The twisting together makes the joint mechanically and electrically secure. Waldo -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time? |
#14
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Doug Miller wrote:
In article .net, HorneTD wrote: Doug Miller wrote: In article , Robert Barr wrote: I have never trusted stranded wire connetions. I've seen too many go bad (mainly from corrosion over time) & cause problems. I solder. It takes a few extra minutes, but in my view, it's always worth it. Note, however, that the National Electrical Code requires that a mechanical fastener (such as a wire nut) must be used _in_addition_ to the solder. A connection made by solder alone is a Code violation. Can you quote me chapter and verse on that assertion. I am unaware of any such provision in the code except that "Connections depending solely on solder shall not be used" in attaching Equipment Grounding Conductors to boxes. A splice that is made up mechanically and then soldered is perfectly acceptable as is shown by the reference in 250.148 to 110.14. That, of course, is _exactly_ what I said: a mechanical fastener must be used in addition to the solder. And you cited the relevant portion of the Code yourself: 110.14 Electrical Connections. [...] (B) Splices. [...] Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time? Doug I was trying to draw a difference between what you were saying and what the code actually requires. I now understand that you believe that the code forbids traditional soldered splices. I don't believe it does and when I have had to do repairs and extensions of knob and tube wiring I have made up mechanical splices by twisting or wrapping the conductors around each other in the traditional manor creating at least three full turns, then soldered, followed by taping. So far I have passed inspection. I would like you to tell me how you would solder a splice that is already covered with a solderless connector. The language of section 110.14 requires that the conductors be spliced or joined first and then soldered. I think I'll just continue to use the traditional method, were it is appropriate, and if an inspector ever refuses it I'll see what the state board of appeals has to say. You see if your position were correct it would be absolutely pointless to use solder. I have to believe that the code making panel did not put in language on soldered splices just to render the practice useless. If that was the intention they would have simply forbid the use of soldering as a splicing technique. -- Tom H |
#15
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Wes Stebbins wrote:
I'm installing PS 1/PS 5 Air Seal Recessed Housing from Thomas Lighting (purchased from Menards). I have two basic questions concerning the joining of wires when wiring up these lights. 1) I know when you join two solid wires together you're supposed to wind them clockwise around each other. Also, when you join a single stand wire to a solid you're supposed to first wrap the strand end around the solid wire, then bend the solid wire over the stranded wire. My question, then, is what do you do when you have two solid wires and 1 stranded wire to connect together. As has already been mentioned, the correct method is to follow the instructions for the particular brand of connector you are using. Personally, I make it a point to use the kind that don't require (indeed are compromised by) the twisting. The only thing special about joining stranded wire (or smaller wire) to a solid wire is to let the stranded (or smaller) wire protrude into the connector a tiny bit (maybe 1/16 inch) further into the connector. Also, some types are better at joining solid wires, and others are better when all the wires are stranded. Bottom line: follow the instructions. 2) Also, concerning the particular lighting described above, when connecting additional outl, a contractor friend of mine attaches (wraps) both ground wires together, and then sends them back up through the knockout - as opposed to doing what the directions say, namely, hook the ground to the green wires, etc. What is the correct way to do this (or are they both ok?), as well as advantages/disadvantages to each? Not sure what you mean by "sends them up through the knockout", but if this means the ground wires protrude outside the fixture wiring box, then it is just plain wrong, and is a violation of the NEC. The fixtures you have are well designed and approved by the appropriate agencies to be installed according to the instructions that came with the fixture. Don't invent stuff even if it does get the lights to work. It never saves any significant amount of either time or money. Thanks, Wes -- Tony Electric http://dotznize.com/electric The Reticulan Museum Of Unnatural History http://ouchouch.com/fancy.html |
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