I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?

--
Rich Greenberg Sarasota, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 941 378 2097
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines: Val, Red, Shasta, Zero & Casey (At the bridge) Owner:Chinook-L
Canines: Red & Cinnar (Siberians) Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

On 12/8/2011 1:44 PM, Rich Greenberg wrote:
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ac+hard+start

On 12/8/2011 2:44 PM, Rich Greenberg wrote:
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?


It's an extra capacitor and start relay. $200.00 is 2 to 4 times what
I would charge if I added it on during the same call. ^_^

TDD

In article ,
chaniarts wrote:
On 12/8/2011 1:44 PM, Rich Greenberg wrote:
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ac+hard+start

Thanks for this link, which led me to Google which led me to suppliers.

It seems that the hard start is a good idea, but they are charging a lot
for them. Only $40-50 if I install it myself.

--
Rich Greenberg Sarasota, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 941 378 2097
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines: Val, Red, Shasta, Zero & Casey (At the bridge) Owner:Chinook-L
Canines: Red & Cinnar (Siberians) Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

I've heard of hard start kits. I use them when the outdoor unit compressor
won't start. If yours works, save your money. As a couple other techs have
said, the guy is a bit over priced, too. I'd gently pass, on this one. And
look for another tech.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
...
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?

--
Rich Greenberg Sarasota, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 941 378 2097
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since
CP-67
Canines: Val, Red, Shasta, Zero & Casey (At the bridge)
Owner:Chinook-L
Canines: Red & Cinnar (Siberians) Retired at the beach Asst
Owner:Sibernet-L

"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting
adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut
which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?


Let's see... The AC manufacturer has electrical engineers designing
their equipment. And this equipment has a "name plate" with a
recommended circuit to power that unit. I should think that would work
if the appropriate circuit and wire gauge is used?

And this person thinks the manufacturer of the AC equipment did not
design things right? And he knows more than that manufacturer? What
are his qualifications?

Might want to ask on alt.engineering.electrical and get an expert
opinion. Or better yet, call the AC manufacturer engineering
department and see what they have to say...

On 12/9/2011 12:52 AM, Bill wrote:
"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?


Let's see... The AC manufacturer has electrical engineers designing
their equipment. And this equipment has a "name plate" with a
recommended circuit to power that unit. I should think that would work
if the appropriate circuit and wire gauge is used?

And this person thinks the manufacturer of the AC equipment did not
design things right? And he knows more than that manufacturer? What are
his qualifications?

Might want to ask on alt.engineering.electrical and get an expert
opinion. Or better yet, call the AC manufacturer engineering department
and see what they have to say...


A little clue since one of the legal things I do for money is servicing
HVAC and refrigeration equipment. If you look at the wiring diagram for
most AC condensing units, it's usually inside the cover over the
contactor, you will see information on connections for an optional start
assist device or kit from the manufacturer. Some units are shipped from
the factory with a "hard start kit" or device already installed but most
are not. There is another option not always installed by the factory
called an "anti-short cycle timer" which keeps the compressor from
trying to start under load after shutting down until the system
pressures have equalized. These items along with high and low pressure
cutout switches and condenser fan cycle switches AKA head pressure
controls are usually part of the premium priced units. All the extra
bells and whistles are left off of the less expensive builder or
contractor grade systems. The extra parts are not that expensive but to
a manufacturer building a million systems, ten, twenty or fifty dollars
per system can add up to a great deal of money where the bean counters
are watching every penny of production cost in order to compete with the
next manufacturer. The start assist devices are usually unnecessary
unless the customer's AC unit is in an area where the power supplied by
the utility may fluctuate enough to cause problems for compressors that
are starting under load. An honest service tech recommending a "hard
start" or "kick-start" device is not at all unusual and depends on the
condition and age of the compressor and quality of the utility power.

TDD

On Dec 9, 4:35*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 12/9/2011 12:52 AM, Bill wrote:





"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?

Let's see... The AC manufacturer has electrical engineers designing
their equipment. And this equipment has a "name plate" with a
recommended circuit to power that unit. I should think that would work
if the appropriate circuit and wire gauge is used?

And this person thinks the manufacturer of the AC equipment did not
design things right? And he knows more than that manufacturer? What are
his qualifications?

Might want to ask on alt.engineering.electrical and get an expert
opinion. Or better yet, call the AC manufacturer engineering department
and see what they have to say...

A little clue since one of the legal things I do for money is servicing
HVAC and refrigeration equipment. If you look at the wiring diagram for
most AC condensing units, it's usually inside the cover over the
contactor, you will see information on connections for an optional start
assist device or kit from the manufacturer. Some units are shipped from
the factory with a "hard start kit" or device already installed but most
are not. There is another option not always installed by the factory
called an "anti-short cycle timer" which keeps the compressor from
trying to start under load after shutting down until the system
pressures have equalized. These items along with high and low pressure
cutout switches and condenser fan cycle switches AKA head pressure
controls are usually part of the premium priced units. All the extra
bells and whistles are left off of the less expensive builder or
contractor grade systems. The extra parts are not that expensive but to
a manufacturer building a million systems, ten, twenty or fifty dollars
per system can add up to a great deal of money where the bean counters
are watching every penny of production cost in order to compete with the
next manufacturer. The start assist devices are usually unnecessary
unless the customer's AC unit is in an area where the power supplied by
the utility may fluctuate enough to cause problems for compressors that
are starting under load. An honest service tech recommending a "hard
start" or "kick-start" device is not at all unusual and depends on the
condition and age of the compressor and quality of the utility power.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would not put a hard start cap on a unit that was working
fine. If it's tripping the breaker sometimes when trying to
start, then after making sure all else is in order I would put
one on. That's what I did with my old unit when it was 10 years old
and got another 16 years out of it.

On 12/9/2011 6:48 AM, wrote:
On Dec 9, 4:35 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 12/9/2011 12:52 AM, Bill wrote:





"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?

Let's see... The AC manufacturer has electrical engineers designing
their equipment. And this equipment has a "name plate" with a
recommended circuit to power that unit. I should think that would work
if the appropriate circuit and wire gauge is used?

And this person thinks the manufacturer of the AC equipment did not
design things right? And he knows more than that manufacturer? What are
his qualifications?

Might want to ask on alt.engineering.electrical and get an expert
opinion. Or better yet, call the AC manufacturer engineering department
and see what they have to say...

A little clue since one of the legal things I do for money is servicing
HVAC and refrigeration equipment. If you look at the wiring diagram for
most AC condensing units, it's usually inside the cover over the
contactor, you will see information on connections for an optional start
assist device or kit from the manufacturer. Some units are shipped from
the factory with a "hard start kit" or device already installed but most
are not. There is another option not always installed by the factory
called an "anti-short cycle timer" which keeps the compressor from
trying to start under load after shutting down until the system
pressures have equalized. These items along with high and low pressure
cutout switches and condenser fan cycle switches AKA head pressure
controls are usually part of the premium priced units. All the extra
bells and whistles are left off of the less expensive builder or
contractor grade systems. The extra parts are not that expensive but to
a manufacturer building a million systems, ten, twenty or fifty dollars
per system can add up to a great deal of money where the bean counters
are watching every penny of production cost in order to compete with the
next manufacturer. The start assist devices are usually unnecessary
unless the customer's AC unit is in an area where the power supplied by
the utility may fluctuate enough to cause problems for compressors that
are starting under load. An honest service tech recommending a "hard
start" or "kick-start" device is not at all unusual and depends on the
condition and age of the compressor and quality of the utility power.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would not put a hard start cap on a unit that was working
fine. If it's tripping the breaker sometimes when trying to
start, then after making sure all else is in order I would put
one on. That's what I did with my old unit when it was 10 years old
and got another 16 years out of it.

I have seen a "Kick Start" device break the connecting rod in a
reciprocating AC compressor before. One of the first items I will
always recommend a customer let me install is an anti-short cycle
timer. The timer prevents the compressor from restarting before
system pressures can equalize allowing the compressor to start under
the least load. The time delay is often one of the things that can
be programmed in most digital thermostats and I always check for it.
If you wonder why it's important it's because whenever the power blinks
or someone plays with a mechanical thermostat, the timer prevents the
compressor from being slammed on and off which really puts a lot of
stress on a compressor both electrically and mechanically.

TDD

..

Thanks all for your responses. Unit has been working fine so I am going
to (probably) pass on getting the hard start unit. My house lights do
not dim when the unit starts which I understand is one of the symptoms of
needing the hard start. But just to make sure, I will call the
manufacturer (Rheem).

--
Rich Greenberg Sarasota, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 941 378 2097
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines: Val, Red, Shasta, Zero & Casey (At the bridge) Owner:Chinook-L
Canines: Red & Cinnar (Siberians) Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
Thanks all for your responses. Unit has been working fine so I am
going
to (probably) pass on getting the hard start unit. My house lights
do
not dim when the unit starts which I understand is one of the
symptoms of
needing the hard start. But just to make sure, I will call the
manufacturer (Rheem).


As they say... If it works, don't fix it!

On Dec 9, 1:05*pm, (Rich Greenberg) wrote:
Thanks all for your responses. *Unit has been working fine so I am going
to (probably) pass on getting the hard start unit. *My house lights do
not dim when the unit starts which I understand is one of the symptoms of
needing the hard start. *But just to make sure, I will call the
manufacturer (Rheem).

If it needed a hard start kit when operating normally, don't
you think Rheem would have put one in?

On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 04:48:49 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 9, 4:35Â*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 12/9/2011 12:52 AM, Bill wrote:





"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?

Let's see... The AC manufacturer has electrical engineers designing
their equipment. And this equipment has a "name plate" with a
recommended circuit to power that unit. I should think that would work
if the appropriate circuit and wire gauge is used?

And this person thinks the manufacturer of the AC equipment did not
design things right? And he knows more than that manufacturer? What are
his qualifications?

Might want to ask on alt.engineering.electrical and get an expert
opinion. Or better yet, call the AC manufacturer engineering department
and see what they have to say...

A little clue since one of the legal things I do for money is servicing
HVAC and refrigeration equipment. If you look at the wiring diagram for
most AC condensing units, it's usually inside the cover over the
contactor, you will see information on connections for an optional start
assist device or kit from the manufacturer. Some units are shipped from
the factory with a "hard start kit" or device already installed but most
are not. There is another option not always installed by the factory
called an "anti-short cycle timer" which keeps the compressor from
trying to start under load after shutting down until the system
pressures have equalized. These items along with high and low pressure
cutout switches and condenser fan cycle switches AKA head pressure
controls are usually part of the premium priced units. All the extra
bells and whistles are left off of the less expensive builder or
contractor grade systems. The extra parts are not that expensive but to
a manufacturer building a million systems, ten, twenty or fifty dollars
per system can add up to a great deal of money where the bean counters
are watching every penny of production cost in order to compete with the
next manufacturer. The start assist devices are usually unnecessary
unless the customer's AC unit is in an area where the power supplied by
the utility may fluctuate enough to cause problems for compressors that
are starting under load. An honest service tech recommending a "hard
start" or "kick-start" device is not at all unusual and depends on the
condition and age of the compressor and quality of the utility power.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would not put a hard start cap on a unit that was working
fine. If it's tripping the breaker sometimes when trying to
start, then after making sure all else is in order I would put
one on. That's what I did with my old unit when it was 10 years old
and got another 16 years out of it.


See: http://www.supco.com/images/pdfs/AC%...%20Booklet.pdf
for all the information you need on hard start devices from the
company that pioneered hard start kits.

..

On 12/9/2011 3:51 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 04:48:49 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 9, 4:35 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 12/9/2011 12:52 AM, Bill wrote:





"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. Have any of you and is it a good idea?

Let's see... The AC manufacturer has electrical engineers designing
their equipment. And this equipment has a "name plate" with a
recommended circuit to power that unit. I should think that would work
if the appropriate circuit and wire gauge is used?

And this person thinks the manufacturer of the AC equipment did not
design things right? And he knows more than that manufacturer? What are
his qualifications?

Might want to ask on alt.engineering.electrical and get an expert
opinion. Or better yet, call the AC manufacturer engineering department
and see what they have to say...

A little clue since one of the legal things I do for money is servicing
HVAC and refrigeration equipment. If you look at the wiring diagram for
most AC condensing units, it's usually inside the cover over the
contactor, you will see information on connections for an optional start
assist device or kit from the manufacturer. Some units are shipped from
the factory with a "hard start kit" or device already installed but most
are not. There is another option not always installed by the factory
called an "anti-short cycle timer" which keeps the compressor from
trying to start under load after shutting down until the system
pressures have equalized. These items along with high and low pressure
cutout switches and condenser fan cycle switches AKA head pressure
controls are usually part of the premium priced units. All the extra
bells and whistles are left off of the less expensive builder or
contractor grade systems. The extra parts are not that expensive but to
a manufacturer building a million systems, ten, twenty or fifty dollars
per system can add up to a great deal of money where the bean counters
are watching every penny of production cost in order to compete with the
next manufacturer. The start assist devices are usually unnecessary
unless the customer's AC unit is in an area where the power supplied by
the utility may fluctuate enough to cause problems for compressors that
are starting under load. An honest service tech recommending a "hard
start" or "kick-start" device is not at all unusual and depends on the
condition and age of the compressor and quality of the utility power.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would not put a hard start cap on a unit that was working
fine. If it's tripping the breaker sometimes when trying to
start, then after making sure all else is in order I would put
one on. That's what I did with my old unit when it was 10 years old
and got another 16 years out of it.


See: http://www.supco.com/images/pdfs/AC%...%20Booklet.pdf
for all the information you need on hard start devices from the
company that pioneered hard start kits.

.

I buy a lot of Supco products. I use their three phase motor protectors
on 3 phase commercial AC units and there is one product that is very
handy for a lot of things and it's Supco 88 and it works. Not only
inside compressors but you can use a drop or two on any joint on a tool
like lineman's pliers to free up the action.

http://www.supco.com/Chemicals%20pg7.htm

TDD

wrote in message
If it needed a hard start kit when operating normally, don't
you think Rheem would have put one in?


I think the HVAC tech needed more income. Must be related to the HVAC
tech who told my elderly mom she needed a whole new HVAC system
installed every few years...

On 12/10/2011 7:51 AM, Bill wrote:
wrote in message
If it needed a hard start kit when operating normally, don't
you think Rheem would have put one in?


I think the HVAC tech needed more income. Must be related to the HVAC
tech who told my elderly mom she needed a whole new HVAC system
installed every few years...


I wound up at a deposition at a lawyers office when I went behind
another HVAC service company where the tech actually sabotaged the
AC unit of my friend's elderly mother. My friend won his case because
the other company decided to settle out of court. Most service companies
are honest and don't rip off their customers, unfortunately there are
a few that can cause problems and give a bad name to a whole industry.
Believe me, if you hang around any supply house for a while, you'll
hear from the guys who the crooks are. Upsell or trying to sell service
contracts is activity that's more common among the larger service
companies. It really depends on the corporate culture of the company
as to whether or not customers are treated as valued friends or as a
mark to be swindled. I'm very protective of my elderly customers and
tell them to call me if anyone tries to sell them on anything no matter
what. A lot of times a swindler will vanish if one of elderly friends
tells them to wait until they call me. ^_^

TDD

On Dec 10, 9:19*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 12/10/2011 7:51 AM, Bill wrote:

wrote in message
If it needed a hard start kit when operating normally, don't
you think Rheem would have put one in?

I think the HVAC tech needed more income. Must be related to the HVAC
tech who told my elderly mom she needed a whole new HVAC system
installed every few years...

I wound up at a deposition at a lawyers office when I went behind
another HVAC service company where the tech actually sabotaged the
AC unit of my friend's elderly mother. My friend won his case because
the other company decided to settle out of court. Most service companies
are honest and don't rip off their customers, unfortunately there are
a few that can cause problems and give a bad name to a whole industry.
Believe me, if you hang around any supply house for a while, you'll
hear from the guys who the crooks are. Upsell or trying to sell service
contracts is activity that's more common among the larger service
companies. It really depends on the corporate culture of the company
as to whether or not customers are treated as valued friends or as a
mark to be swindled. I'm very protective of my elderly customers and
tell them to call me if anyone tries to sell them on anything no matter
what. A lot of times a swindler will vanish if one of elderly friends
tells them to wait until they call me. ^_^

TDD

Someone had posted a link here couple months ago to
a Dateline video done in Pheonix. They had an AC that
was about 10 years old checked out by a reputable company
and found to be working OK. They then pulled the disconnect
out slightly so that the outside unit would not work and
called several companies for service. Out of about 4
I think 2 were crooks. They showed the tech telling her
the system was getting power, but was shot and she
needed a whole new one.
One guy not only pushed the disconnect back in, he
also didn't charge her for the call.

So, yeah, if a system is starting normally, not tripping
the breaker, I sure would not be putting a hard start
kit on it because some tech says so. And $200 to
install one is out of line, especially if that was in
addition to whatever he paid for the regular service
call. I would also find a new AC company.

On Dec 8, 2:44*pm, (Rich Greenberg) wrote:
I had my A.C./heat pump serviced today. *The tech is suggesting adding
something called a "hard start" to the compressor starting circut which
supposedly reduces wear on the motor. *And costs almost $200.

I have never heard of this. *Have any of you and is it a good idea?

--
Rich Greenberg *Sarasota, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com *+ 1 941 378 2097begin_of_the_skype_highlighting************+ 1 941 378 2097
Eastern time. *N6LRT *I speak for myself & my dogs only. * *VM'er since CP-67
Canines: Val, Red, Shasta, Zero & Casey (At the bridge) * * * *Owner:Chinook-L
Canines: Red & Cinnar (Siberians) *Retired at the beach *Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

A hard start kit for the compressor is ONLY needed if the compressor
doesnt come online right away when a call for cooling occurs by the
thermostat . It is useful for tight old compressors or for low
voltage conditions and/or for a/c systems that dont equalize the
internal pressure quick enough before the next cooling cycle occurs.
$200 installed is a tad on the high side unless hes going to be
servicing the whole unit at the same time.

Similar thing, I saw years ago. They had the system checked, then someone
unwired one of the low voltage wires to the contactor. Much the same
results, one company just reattached the wire. Another company tech used
wire cutters to cut the coil wire on the contactor.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...

Someone had posted a link here couple months ago to
a Dateline video done in Pheonix. They had an AC that
was about 10 years old checked out by a reputable company
and found to be working OK. They then pulled the disconnect
out slightly so that the outside unit would not work and
called several companies for service. Out of about 4
I think 2 were crooks. They showed the tech telling her
the system was getting power, but was shot and she
needed a whole new one.
One guy not only pushed the disconnect back in, he
also didn't charge her for the call.

So, yeah, if a system is starting normally, not tripping
the breaker, I sure would not be putting a hard start
kit on it because some tech says so. And $200 to
install one is out of line, especially if that was in
addition to whatever he paid for the regular service
call. I would also find a new AC company.

On 12/9/2011 12:05 PM, Rich Greenberg wrote:
Thanks all for your responses. Unit has been working fine so I am going
to (probably) pass on getting the hard start unit. My house lights do
not dim when the unit starts which I understand is one of the symptoms of
needing the hard start. But just to make sure, I will call the
manufacturer (Rheem).


If you have a digital thermostat, see if there is a start up delay that
can be programmed into it for keeping the compressor from short cycling.
I set them anywhere from 3 to 5 minutes. If the power blinks or the AC
stops after reaching its set-point and someone immediately sets the temp
down calling for cooling, the time delay prevents the compressor from
trying to start before systems pressures equalize allowing the
compressor to start under the least load. If you have a mechanical
thermostat, a timer can be added out at the condensing unit inside the
electrical junction box. In rural areas where power go out frequently
during storms, I'll add anti short cycle timers and surge arresters to
the inside and outside units to protect the capacitors and circuit boards.

TDD