On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:49:16 GMT, Bob Ward wrote:

They offer flat rate international calling? (That's what this part of the
thread was about.)


Broadvoice VOIP does...

Thanks for introducing something factual to the thread. Unfortunately
their "world" doesn't include my world. :-(

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 00:07:49 GMT, doubter
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:49:16 GMT, Bob Ward wrote:

They offer flat rate international calling? (That's what this part of the
thread was about.)


Broadvoice VOIP does...

Thanks for introducing something factual to the thread. Unfortunately
their "world" doesn't include my world. :-(

Do we have to guess, or will you tell us what "world" you need to
communicate with?

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 01:58:41 GMT, Bob Ward wrote:

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 00:07:49 GMT, doubter
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:49:16 GMT, Bob Ward wrote:

They offer flat rate international calling? (That's what this part of the
thread was about.)


Broadvoice VOIP does...

Thanks for introducing something factual to the thread. Unfortunately
their "world" doesn't include my world. :-(

Do we have to guess, or will you tell us what "world" you need to
communicate with?

Sorry Bob, I didn't realize you were going to continue to look for an
international flat rate plan for me. The gesture is appreciated. A large
part of my world is South Africa.

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:12:56 GMT, doubter
wrote:

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 01:58:41 GMT, Bob Ward wrote:

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 00:07:49 GMT, doubter
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:49:16 GMT, Bob Ward wrote:

They offer flat rate international calling? (That's what this part of the
thread was about.)


Broadvoice VOIP does...

Thanks for introducing something factual to the thread. Unfortunately
their "world" doesn't include my world. :-(

Do we have to guess, or will you tell us what "world" you need to
communicate with?

Sorry Bob, I didn't realize you were going to continue to look for an
international flat rate plan for me. The gesture is appreciated. A large
part of my world is South Africa.


Looks like Broadvoice wouldn't be the answer, then... their coverage
includes:

Unlimited calling to 35 countries including the United States:
Australia
Netherlands
Austria
Norway
Belgium
Singapore
Canada
Spain
Chile
Sweden
China
Switzerland
Denmark
Taiwan
France
United Kingdom
Germany
United States
Ireland
Vatican City
Italy

Additional countries included in
Unlimited World PLUS:

Argentina
Luxembourg
Brazil
Malaysia
Czech Republic
New Zealand
Finland
Poland
Greece
Portugal
Israel
San Marino
Japan
South Korea


Googling on voip South Africa resulted ion the following
information:
http://www.afrol.com/articles/12786
Misanet / ITWebNews, 27 May - A new report suggests that South
Africa's government is currently undermining the country's position as
a technology leader in Africa by its restrictive ICT legislation.
While countries such as Algeria, Mauritius, Mali, Nigeria and Kenya
all embrace the use of new technologies like VOIP and WiFi, South
Africa prohibits this for the short-term protection of jobs.

- It is extremely ironic that the South African government's
legislative efforts that affect new technologies like voice over IP
(VOIP) and wireless fidelity (WiFi) are actually working against the
development goals it is hoping to achieve. This is the view of
Bridges.org, an international non-profit organisation that promotes
the effective use of ICT in the developing world, with the aim of
reducing poverty and improving people's lives.

In a recent report, the organisation claims that unless government
aligns its intentions with its actions, it may soon undermine the
country's position as a technology leader in Africa, which would go
against the ICT strategy laid out by South Africa's ruling ANC party.


-----

So, it looks like your country's leadership needs to be realigned to
solve this conundrum.

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:19:59 GMT, Bob Ward wrote:


So, it looks like your country's leadership needs to be realigned to
solve this conundrum.

Actually it is my friend's country, but I thing the article you quoted is
right on the money. If anything the government has found ways to harm far
more than just the technological economic segment, but that's much more
than we want to discuss in this ng.

Thanks Bob.

"Technology works" wrote in message
...

"John A. Weeks III" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Technology works" wrote:

It all depends where you call. There is a company opening shortly that
puts
all the service together. What do you pay for your local phone company?
Maybe $25/month plus features? For $29.95 per month you can trash your
local company and get unlimited long distance and features to anywhere
in
Canada the US and 20 other countries. All you need is high speed
Internet.
You can still use all your phones and keep your number. To me that's
the
cheapest long distance.

I think you are talking about Vonage. They have a plan now for
$14.95 a month. The number of minutes is limited to something
like 500 or 1500, but that is far more than what I use.

-john-

The company I'm talking about is actually called Igonet. They are only
new and opening in early October. They are cheaper than Vonage and the
calls are unlimited - no limits. For me, it worked out because I spend
more than $29.95 between my local and long distance, plus you get every
extra imaginable like call waiting etc... So I figure even if I don't
call that much - I still save money. The VOIP service is very clear -
just as good as regular service. Yes, the only catch is no power - no
phone. But that has rarely been an issue where I am and after all, most
people have a cell phone if something like that happens.
www.igonet.net/freedom4u
Richard


From what you've stated Igonet is MORE expensive than Vonage. Vonage's
unlimited service is $24.95, so why would anyone want to go with a more
expensive company like Igonet which is yet as you say is new and (therefore)
yet to be established and has who knows what growing pains!

Russell

"Russell" wrote in message
ink.net...

.....
From what you've stated Igonet is MORE expensive than Vonage. Vonage's
unlimited service is $24.95, so why would anyone want to go with a more
expensive company like Igonet which is yet as you say is new and
(therefore) yet to be established and has who knows what growing pains!

Russell


I may be able to help with the questions and debates in this thread about
long distance rates and companies, VOIP, etc. I have a Website that lets you
compare long distance rates--including international rates for many
countries (such as South Africa)--from many different companies, such as
PowerNetGlobal, Opex, Talk Home Card, CogniState, IBN Tel, and VOIP
companies like "My Phone Company" and Packet 8. Go to
http://billzilla.com/terryusa and use the "BILLZilla Crunch!"

The BillZilla Crunch! calculator will also let you estimate your total
monthly bill. Be aware that different companies use different billing
increments and minimum call durations (for example, PowerNetGlobal bills in
6 second increments, with a 30 second minimum call duration and CogniState
bills in 6 second increments, with a 6 second minimum call duration).
Calling cards tend to have longer billing increments and minimum call
durations. I prefer to use and recommend companies that bill in 6 second
increments and have short minimum call durations. Click on the total bill
amount to get a detailed quote that includes the billing increments.

Full disclosu I am an independent Cognigen Rep, but you don't have to buy
my services to use the long distance bill calculator for rate comparisons
and monthly bill estimates. It's a handy and free tool.

Hope this helps,

Phil Terry

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:57:02 -0400, "Phil Terry" wrote:

"Russell" wrote in message
link.net...

....
From what you've stated Igonet is MORE expensive than Vonage. Vonage's
unlimited service is $24.95, so why would anyone want to go with a more
expensive company like Igonet which is yet as you say is new and
(therefore) yet to be established and has who knows what growing pains!

Russell


I may be able to help with the questions and debates in this thread about
long distance rates and companies, VOIP, etc. I have a Website that lets you
compare long distance rates--including international rates for many
countries (such as South Africa)--from many different companies, such as
PowerNetGlobal, Opex, Talk Home Card, CogniState, IBN Tel, and VOIP
companies like "My Phone Company" and Packet 8. Go to
http://billzilla.com/xxxxxxxx use the "BILLZilla Crunch!"

The BillZilla Crunch! calculator will also let you estimate your total
monthly bill. Be aware that different companies use different billing
increments and minimum call durations (for example, PowerNetGlobal bills in
6 second increments, with a 30 second minimum call duration and CogniState
bills in 6 second increments, with a 6 second minimum call duration).
Calling cards tend to have longer billing increments and minimum call
durations. I prefer to use and recommend companies that bill in 6 second
increments and have short minimum call durations. Click on the total bill
amount to get a detailed quote that includes the billing increments.

Full disclosu I am an independent Cognigen Rep, but you don't have to buy
my services to use the long distance bill calculator for rate comparisons
and monthly bill estimates. It's a handy and free tool.

Hope this helps,

Phil Terry

No it doesn't help. I use several different services to call, mainly to
South Africa, and they are all cheaper than your 2nd cheapest. My primary
service is cheaper than your cheapest. So AT BEST your web page is only a
guide for those using the most expensive services.

If someone wants UNBIASED information they should visit www.clarkhoward.com
and drill down throught "telephone services" to "long distance deals."

Full disclosu Clark Howard has a syndicated radio show that offers
consumer tips and help. I have nothing to do with the radio show.

"doubter" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:57:02 -0400, "Phil Terry"
wrote:

No it doesn't help. I use several different services to call, mainly to
South Africa, and they are all cheaper than your 2nd cheapest. My primary
service is cheaper than your cheapest. So AT BEST your web page is only a
guide for those using the most expensive services.

If someone wants UNBIASED information they should visit
www.clarkhoward.com
and drill down throught "telephone services" to "long distance deals."

Full disclosu Clark Howard has a syndicated radio show that offers
consumer tips and help. I have nothing to do with the radio show.


Sorry you didn't find Billzilla helpful, doubter. Thanks for the info on
Clark Howard's long distance deals page. I have listened to his radio show a
few times and found it to be informative. I checked out the deals he lists
and some of them do look quite good. Unfortunately, his site does not offer
a comparison calculator and some of the company Web sites do not list all
the info necessary for full comparisons, but one can get it if one is
willing to call those companies.

I would need to know what services you are using in order to compare rates.
Would you be willing to share with us one or more of the services you use so
we can compare?

BigRedWire looks like it offers the lowest costs on Howard's page for a long
distance service that does not require a calling card or VOIP and does
provide international service. The Web site lowermybills.com, which I am not
affiliated with, rates BigRedWire as being one of the lowest cost providers,
but it rates Pioneer as even cheaper. The problem is, I discovered that the
Billzilla site I provided the link for did not list Pioneer when I tested
it, so it probably does not show up for you either--I apologize for that. I
have only recently started using the Billzilla site and had not run into
that situation before. My own site (http://www.LD.net/?terryusa) has a less
fully-featured calculator that does list Pioneer when I try it. My site also
listed IBN-Tel 1+ long distance as being even cheaper (for the usage figures
I plugged in) than BigRedWire or Pioneer. The rates are low and pretty close
for IBN-Tel, Pioneer and BigRedWire, so one would probably do well with any
of them, though I can't vouch for the quality of service provided by
BigRedWire, since I do not offer their service (but I did see one positive
review of them).

It obviously can be useful to try more than one online comparison service
when looking for the lowest rates, to access a broader range of companies,
and in case there have been recent rate changes. Regarding the latter, since
rates change frequently, it's a good idea to again check the rates of a
company again when you go to sign up with them, as you may find that they've
fallen further and you also want to make sure they weren't mistyped on a
comparison list.

Total Call International (listed on Clark Howard's site) also offers some
good rates, but Cognistate, Pioneer and Unitel are all ranked better than
Total Call International by reviewers at this consumer site (which I am not
affiliated with):
http://www.consumersearch.com/www/ho...fullstory.html
(scroll down to the "Consensus Report"). This site was rated "Best of the
Web 2001" and "Best Expert Review Site" by PC World. ECG (Enhanced
Communications Group) is listed as best of all by this site. Of course,
which company and calling plan is best for each individual depends on that
individual's calling patterns and needs, and which companies and plans are
cheapest will vary over time, as rates fluctuate and new plans are created.

Phil

"chula" wrote in message
oups.com...
.... So far, we are using Power Net Global and happy with it. We just
haven't found anything really good out there yet.

chula



One of the common themes in this thread is some dissatisfaction with
existing carriers and a feeling that there must be something better out
there. In an effort to try to find the best long distance plans that offer
decent international rates, let's compare the rates and costs of plans from
several different companies that appear to have good reputations. GTC,
BigRedWire and Total Call International are recommended by ClarkHoward.com,
ECG is recommended by consumersearch.com, consumerworld.com, and
saveonphone.com, and IBN Tel (IBN InterTelecom) is one of the companies
whose services I offer that has satisfied my customers who make
international calls. Each of the services I'll compare here do not require a
calling card, dialing extra digits or VOIP. For this example I'll use my
state of Florida as the origination point and I'll use South Africa
(doubter's example) as the country I make international calls to.



When comparing long distance plans, it's wise to educate yourself about the
various charges on phone bills. For example, USF (Universal Service Fund)
charges are made to cover the costs of an FCC charge which "helps to make
phone service affordable and available to all Americans." The USF charge is
an example of a "soft fee" that doesn't have to be charged, but usually is.
Most companies pass this cost on to their customers, but they are not
required to do so. The USF costs to carriers reportedly vary by state, but
they should be the same for all the carriers in a particular state. The
companies choose how much of this cost to list under a USF line item charge,
so the actual rate will vary by carrier. Most companies charge in the range
of 9% to 10.7% in Florida, some less (they pay for the charge with the money
they make from their regular rates), and some charge even more, unethically
padding the fee with some additional hidden profit for themselves. There are
also "hard fees" that are real taxes imposed by federal, state and local
governments, such as the 3% federal excise tax, and should be the same on
all phone companies' bills. A third category of charges are "fake" or
"hidden" taxes and fees that are misleading ways for carriers to recover
company expenses or add profits without customers knowing it, portraying
these line items as required government taxes or fees. These fees have been
particularly controversial in wireless accounts, with the Center for Public
Integrity reporting that "wireless companies have used the [so-called
'federal recovery fees'] line item to cover all manner of expenses,
including marketing and advertising costs." (see
http://www.publicintegrity.org/telec...id=250&sid=200 )



GTC GlobalConnect
Interstate 3.9c/min
Intrastate 8c/min
South Africa 10c/min
USF charge on interstate calls 0% (according to their customer service
dept.; this is a very good rate)
Total monthly cost* $47.79
Billing increments 60 secs
Minimum call length 60 secs


Notes: Interstate means long distance calls made state-to-state and
intrastate means long distance calls made to numbers within your state. GTC
only includes interstate rates in their ads and bill comparison examples on
their Web site. This is rather misleading, as it does not include intrastate
or international rates (though their rates for these calls are good too, so
it's not horrendously misleading, but it is standard practice by most
companies to at least include the intrastate rates in their advertised
rates). GTC charges a 99 cent "regulatory cost recovery fee." Such a charge
is a "fake fee" according to UCAN (Utility Consumers' Action Network,
http://www.ucan.org/members/ucanmemb...uide/Fees.html).
UCAN says that fake fees such as this "are bogus charges that are designed
to look official, but which, in reality, are nothing more than profit
centers for the carriers." On the plus side, GTC doesn't charge a USF fee
(at least not according to the sales rep I spoke to), so that would offset
much, if not all, of the "regulatory charge" for customers who make a lot of
interstate calls. GTC also charges $1.95/month for paper statements paid by
check, or $0.95/month for credit card payment with paper statement, or no
charge for credit card payment with online statement. During one call I made
to the GTC sales department I was left on hold for 5 minutes with mostly
dead silence. A hold message did come on a few times and during one of these
times it mentioned that GTC has had service outages in certain areas due to
recent hurricane damage.



BigRedWire
Interstate 2.6c/min
Intrastate 5.9c/min
South Africa 13c/min
USF charge on interstate calls 10.7%
Total monthly cost* $43.56
Billing increments 60 secs
Minimum call length not listed on their Web site
Notes: BigRedWire only offers customer service via email, not telephone.
They do not offer a personal toll free number.



Total Call International TotalCHOICE
Interstate 4.9c/min (I averaged their 2.9c nights/weekends rate with their
6.9c weekdays 7am-7pm rate)
Intrastate 6.4c/min
South Africa 12c/min
USF charge on interstate calls 10.7%
Total monthly cost* $47.65
Billing increments 6 secs (international: 60 secs)
Minimum call length 18 secs (international: 60 secs)



ECG 2.75c/min plan
Interstate 2.75c/min
Intrastate 10.6c/min
South Africa 17c/min
USF charge on interstate calls 11.1%
Total monthly cost* $61.90
Billing increments 6 secs
Minimum call length 18 secs
Notes: Fast response time of 3 seconds for the one call I made to their
sales department. The rep was very pleasant. They are known for good
customer service and short call hold times to customer service. ECG charges
a 59 cent "regulatory cost recovery" fee. As mentioned above, such a charge
is a "fake fee" according to UCAN (Utility Consumers' Action Network,
http://www.ucan.org/members/ucanmemb...uide/Fees.html).
ECG pads their USF charge (they charge the most for the USF fee of the
companies in this example). ECG promotes its low interstate rate while
downplaying its relatively high intrastate and international rates, another
practice of questionable ethics. Given ECG's high rating by two respected
consumer sites, it's disappointing that they use these unethical practices.
It's also surprising that ECG's total cost in this example is by far the
highest. For these reasons, I cannot recommend ECG.



IBN Tel direct dial 1+ long distance
Interstate 2.5c/min
Intrastate 7.9c/min
South Africa 8.5c/min
USF charge on interstate calls 9.8%
Total monthly cost* $38.29
Billing increments 6 secs
Minimum call length 6 secs
Notes: IBN Tel offers a personal toll free number for a setup fee of $2,
with rates "as low as 4.9 cents per minute" with no monthly fees. They
charge $1.95/month if monthly usage is under $20. In this example the usage
is more than $20, so the charge is not incurred in this case.



*Total monthly cost is based on a calling pattern of 200 minutes/month of
interstate, intrastate and international calls (this is an arbitrary pattern
I used based on GTC's use of 200 minutes/month of interstate calls in their
advertised examples--your actual costs will vary depending on your actual
usage, but this example gives you a basic idea). The total monthly cost
assumes all calls last a minute or an exact multiple of a minute, thus
avoiding extra costs from calls whose durations include fractions of minutes
that are rounded up. The actual bill would be less for companies like Total
Call Int'l, ECG and IBN Tel than for GTC and BigRedWire, because the former
bill in increments of 6 seconds, whereas the latter bill in increments of 60
seconds. Six second billing means if you talk for one minute and two
seconds, you will be charged for one minute and six seconds, not two minutes
as you would by companies that use billing increments of 60 seconds. Longer
minimum call lengths also increase your costs due to rounding up.



CONCLUSION: IBN Tel had the lowest total monthly cost in this comparison
example, with nice features like toll free customer service and a personal
toll free number option, and no unethical billing practices. They would come
out even better if I could account for billing increments and minimum call
length in the calculations. It is satisfying to see that a company I offer
fares best in the comparison. Some will of course question my objectivity,
but I tried to be fair and factual and if you find any errors or omissions
in my data, please let me know. All of the plans except ECG's have decent
overall rates (and even ECG's are better than a lot of other plans out
there). Some of the practices of ECG and GTC are unethical. I expected ECG
to come out better given the praise it received at some consumer sites and
reportedly from the Wall Street Journal. It makes me wonder how thoroughly
they checked ECG out, though they are known for good customer service. Here
is how I would rank the plans, from best to worst, based on this example
(other calling patterns might result in different rankings):



1. IBN Tel direct dial 1+ long distance

2. Total Call International TotalCHOICE

3. BigRedWire

4. GTC GlobalConnect

5. ECG 2.75cents/minute



Even the worst companies in this ranking are not that bad, as I started with
a select group of highly rated companies. Feel free to add your inputs. I
hope that the information I have provided is helpful to some out there. If
anyone has any questions about any of this, please let me know within this
newsgroup (the email address is not valid, to avoid spam), I'll be more than
happy to help when I have an opportunity to do so. Alternatively, you can
find more information at my Website, www.ld.net/?terryusa, about IBN Tel's
and other companies' services I can provide. If you have questions regarding
IBN Tel dial 1+ or other services click on Support, then click on Go under
Sales Inquiries and submit your question there.

In article ,
Phil Terry wrote:

GTC GlobalConnect
Interstate 3.9c/min

Wrong. Its 2.9 c/m

Intrastate 8c/min

This varies from state to state. 8.5 c/m in GA.

USF charge on interstate calls 0% (according to their customer service
dept.; this is a very good rate)

They recently started charging a USF fee of $1/mo, only in months that
you have LD calls.

--
Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L
Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Phil Terry wrote:

GTC GlobalConnect
Interstate 3.9c/min

Wrong. Its 2.9 c/m

Intrastate 8c/min

This varies from state to state. 8.5 c/m in GA.

USF charge on interstate calls 0% (according to their customer service
dept.; this is a very good rate)

They recently started charging a USF fee of $1/mo, only in months that
you have LD calls.


Thanks for the input, Rich. GTC is showing a 3.9c rate for state-to-state
residential long distance at the following Web pages:
http://www.gtctelecom.com/
http://www.gtctelecom.com/offer/strF...ntialplan.asp#

I could not find a 2.9c state-to-state residential rate anywhere on their
site. Could you please tell me where you see it? Thanks.

You're right that intrastate rates vary from state to state and that is a
good point--that's why I mentioned that I was using a specific state
(Florida) in my example. It would be impractical and confusing for me to do
a carrier comparison analysis for every state and list all the numbers in a
newsgroup post, though I'd be happy to do another example for anyone here
who wishes me to run the numbers for their particular state (or they can go
to my LD site and/or one of the other comparison sites and run the numbers
themselves, of course). Interstate rates tend to be the same across
states--at least the 48 contiguous states (though some carriers' plans are
not offered in all of the lower 48).

Rather than say it's standard practice to include intrastate rates in
advertised rates, I should probably have said it's a consumer-friendly
practice used by some companies where feasible (one intrastate rate could
not be advertised for all states, so intrastate rate ads either have
to be targeted to specific states or, in the case of online sites, can
include a calculator that gives the consumer the ability to plug in his
state to get his in-state rate). Some websites require a bit more digging
than others to find your in-state rate. GTC prominently displays the
interstate rate here http://www.gtctelecom.com/, here
http://www.gtctelecom.com/offer/strFrnt/comparison.asp and here
http://www.gtctelecom.com/offer/strFrnt/default.asp, but you have to drill
down to here http://www.gtctelecom.com/offer/strF...entialplan.asp to
find your in-state rate, though that is not highly unusual. It's actually a
bit more disconcerting that they don't even mention the existence of
in-state
rates until you drill down to there. Some other carriers sites will mention
up front
that they have "low in-state rates." Those who downplay their in-state rates
tend to have higher in-state rates, though not always. GTC's in-state rates
are not bad, so it's probably not a case of them trying to intentionally
mislead or hide information, and all carriers would rather tout their lower
interstate rates than their in-state rates.

Thanks for letting us know about GTC's $1/month USF fee for months in which
there are LD calls. It's disappointing that the GTC sales rep did not
mention that. Unfortunately for GTC, that is another strike against them,
though I don't mean to pick on a little company like GTC--I'd rather pick on
big boys like Sprint, MCI and AT&T who charge higher rates. :-)

In article ,
Phil Terry wrote:
"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Phil Terry wrote:

GTC GlobalConnect
Interstate 3.9c/min

Wrong. Its 2.9 c/m

Intrastate 8c/min

This varies from state to state. 8.5 c/m in GA.

Thanks for the input, Rich. GTC is showing a 3.9c rate for state-to-state
residential long distance at the following Web pages:
http://www.gtctelecom.com/
http://www.gtctelecom.com/offer/strF...ntialplan.asp#

I could not find a 2.9c state-to-state residential rate anywhere on their
site. Could you please tell me where you see it? Thanks.

Just checked my latest bill and thats what I am paying.
Its quite possible they no longer offer it, but its grandfathered. I
had been paying (ISTR) 5 c/m when I went to thier web site looking for
something else and saw the 2.9 offer. Called c/s and they gave me that
rate.

Got a telemarketing call from them a few weeks ago offering to give me
the 2.9 rate and the droid was surprised to see that I already had that
rate and then tried to sell me local service which I declined.

Thanks for letting us know about GTC's $1/month USF fee for months in which
there are LD calls. It's disappointing that the GTC sales rep did not
mention that. Unfortunately for GTC, that is another strike against them,
though I don't mean to pick on a little company like GTC--I'd rather pick on
big boys like Sprint, MCI and AT&T who charge higher rates. :-)

Since I usually have little LD, this annoyed me considerably. Doubles
my bill some months. I am considering dropping them and getting a card
from Sams Club.

--
Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L
Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L