Is wiring a Hella/Amazon switch to light power on to ground possible without using a relay ?

On Monday, 8 May 2017 21:41:59 UTC+1, wrote:
Is wiring a Hella/Amazon switch to light power on to ground possible without using a relay ?

What's the current rating of the switch, and the voltage & power of the lighting?


NT

On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 10:40:30 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, 8 May 2017 21:41:59 UTC+1, wrote:
Is wiring a Hella/Amazon switch to light power on to ground possible without using a relay ?

What's the current rating of the switch, and the voltage & power of the lighting?


NT

ahno, the switch has an LED lighting when the switch circuit routes power from supply to powered unit. Switch feeds power to ground and thru the LED.

my experience at NOT using a relay connected to the powered unit wire as the final activator...is negative. NOT using a relay but activating the powered unit does not light the LED. Wiring Lighting the LED does not power the unit.

there are schematics: goo.gl/1ZuTXR

reason I ask, possibly again, is I had a new wiring light the switch ( without a relay) .... but finding switch was activating a relay inside the powered unit.

leaving a mystery circuit.

On 5/12/2017 11:56 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 10:40:30 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, 8 May 2017 21:41:59 UTC+1, wrote:
Is wiring a Hella/Amazon switch to light power on to ground possible without using a relay ?

What's the current rating of the switch, and the voltage & power of the lighting?


NT

ahno, the switch has an LED lighting when the switch circuit routes power from supply to powered unit. Switch feeds power to ground and thru the LED.

my experience at NOT using a relay connected to the powered unit wire as the final activator...is negative. NOT using a relay but activating the powered unit does not light the LED. Wiring Lighting the LED does not power the unit.

there are schematics: goo.gl/1ZuTXR

reason I ask, possibly again, is I had a new wiring light the switch ( without a relay) .... but finding switch was activating a relay inside the powered unit.

leaving a mystery circuit.

I believe the question is still, "how long is a piece of string?" Do
you have any specs on the light unit? I assume it has three
connections, ground, power and switch?

--

Rick C

On Friday, 12 May 2017 16:56:50 UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 10:40:30 AM UTC-4, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 8 May 2017 21:41:59 UTC+1, wrote:
Is wiring a Hella/Amazon switch to light power on to ground possible without using a relay ?

What's the current rating of the switch, and the voltage & power of the lighting?


NT

ahno, the switch has an LED lighting when the switch circuit routes power from supply to powered unit. Switch feeds power to ground and thru the LED.

my experience at NOT using a relay connected to the powered unit wire as the final activator...is negative. NOT using a relay but activating the powered unit does not light the LED. Wiring Lighting the LED does not power the unit.

there are schematics: goo.gl/1ZuTXR

reason I ask, possibly again, is I had a new wiring light the switch ( without a relay) .... but finding switch was activating a relay inside the powered unit.

leaving a mystery circuit.

If you recover the ability to communicate your circuit, I daresay I could then help.


NT

IF circuits are wired as follows
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?q=EZ+Turn+...re+LED+D ash+

the LED does not light.

But if wired like this

http://www.xtremelandy.co.uk/Manuals...m%20(JPEG).jpg

the circuit works with power to unit and lit LED

I do not know why a second unit cannot go between LED and grnd with a dummy load unit to grnd in power to unit as the center take off prong €¦thus skipping the relay. For an alternative example €¦. As the posted question asks

near 9/10 circuits I wired are direct connection to Batt with wire gauges supplied by Powerstreams calculator. But there are places without space or necessity that could be wired without a relay n without loss of voltage.

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

there are extra LED on the shelf but that's more complication.

On Friday, 12 May 2017 22:34:23 UTC+1, wrote:
IF circuits are wired as follows
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?q=EZ+Turn+...re+LED+D ash+

the LED does not light.

But if wired like this

http://www.xtremelandy.co.uk/Manuals...m%20(JPEG).jpg

the circuit works with power to unit and lit LED

I do not know why a second unit cannot go between LED and grnd with a dummy load unit to grnd in power to unit as the center take off prong €¦thus skipping the relay. For an alternative example €¦. As the posted question asks

near 9/10 circuits I wired are direct connection to Batt with wire gauges supplied by Powerstreams calculator. But there are places without space or necessity that could be wired without a relay n without loss of voltage.

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

there are extra LED on the shelf but that's more complication.

Relays are used when the switch can't take the current, or could but not reliably.


NT

On 5/12/2017 5:34 PM, wrote:


IF circuits are wired as follows
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?q=EZ+Turn+...re+LED+D ash+

the LED does not light.

But if wired like this

http://www.xtremelandy.co.uk/Manuals...m%20(JPEG).jpg

the circuit works with power to unit and lit LED

There is a missing wire in this schematic. The switch needs two wires.
To light an LED internal to the switch requires both power and ground in
addition to the switched output. In other words, the switch will be
wired the same. The only difference is the switch controls the relay
and the relay controls the lights.

If the LED does not light without the relay, either it is not wired
correctly or turning on the lights draws too much power and there is a
large voltage drop across the switch.

This is not rocket science. It either works or something isn't right.
If you wire the switch up without the relay and then disconnect the
lights, will the LED come on then?


I do not know why a second unit cannot go between LED and grnd with a
dummy load unit to grnd in power to unit as the center take off prong
€¦thus skipping the relay. For an alternative example €¦. As the
posted question asks

I don't know what you mean by "the posted question". The original post
was not intelligible.

I also don't completely understand this question. Where exactly in the
drawing do you mean "between LED and grnd"? Do you mean in the
connection between the switch and ground, in series? I believe that leg
is providing ground for the LED. It would not be suitable for
connecting a load as the LED drops some voltage. If you mean connecting
a load between the switched terminal and ground, then yes, that would be
fine as long as the load doesn't draw more current than the switch is
rated for.


near 9/10 circuits I wired are direct connection to Batt with wire
gauges supplied by Powerstreams calculator. But there are places
without space or necessity that could be wired without a relay n
without loss of voltage.

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

there are extra LED on the shelf but that's more complication.

--

Rick C

On Saturday, 13 May 2017 00:04:38 UTC+1, rickman wrote:
On 5/12/2017 5:34 PM, wrote:


IF circuits are wired as follows
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?q=EZ+Turn+...re+LED+D ash+

the LED does not light.

But if wired like this

http://www.xtremelandy.co.uk/Manuals...m%20(JPEG).jpg

the circuit works with power to unit and lit LED

There is a missing wire in this schematic. The switch needs two wires.
To light an LED internal to the switch requires both power and ground in
addition to the switched output. In other words, the switch will be
wired the same. The only difference is the switch controls the relay
and the relay controls the lights.

If the LED does not light without the relay, either it is not wired
correctly or turning on the lights draws too much power and there is a
large voltage drop across the switch.

This is not rocket science. It either works or something isn't right.
If you wire the switch up without the relay and then disconnect the
lights, will the LED come on then?


I do not know why a second unit cannot go between LED and grnd with a
dummy load unit to grnd in power to unit as the center take off prong
€¦thus skipping the relay. For an alternative example €¦.. As the
posted question asks

I don't know what you mean by "the posted question". The original post
was not intelligible.

I also don't completely understand this question. Where exactly in the
drawing do you mean "between LED and grnd"? Do you mean in the
connection between the switch and ground, in series? I believe that leg
is providing ground for the LED. It would not be suitable for
connecting a load as the LED drops some voltage. If you mean connecting
a load between the switched terminal and ground, then yes, that would be
fine as long as the load doesn't draw more current than the switch is
rated for.


near 9/10 circuits I wired are direct connection to Batt with wire
gauges supplied by Powerstreams calculator. But there are places
without space or necessity that could be wired without a relay n
without loss of voltage.

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

there are extra LED on the shelf but that's more complication.

I rather suspect trolling.

On 5/12/2017 7:12 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, 13 May 2017 00:04:38 UTC+1, rickman wrote:
On 5/12/2017 5:34 PM, wrote:


IF circuits are wired as follows
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?q=EZ+Turn+...re+LED+D ash+

the LED does not light.

But if wired like this

http://www.xtremelandy.co.uk/Manuals...m%20(JPEG).jpg

the circuit works with power to unit and lit LED

There is a missing wire in this schematic. The switch needs two wires.
To light an LED internal to the switch requires both power and ground in
addition to the switched output. In other words, the switch will be
wired the same. The only difference is the switch controls the relay
and the relay controls the lights.

If the LED does not light without the relay, either it is not wired
correctly or turning on the lights draws too much power and there is a
large voltage drop across the switch.

This is not rocket science. It either works or something isn't right.
If you wire the switch up without the relay and then disconnect the
lights, will the LED come on then?


I do not know why a second unit cannot go between LED and grnd with a
dummy load unit to grnd in power to unit as the center take off prong
€¦thus skipping the relay. For an alternative example €¦. As the
posted question asks

I don't know what you mean by "the posted question". The original post
was not intelligible.

I also don't completely understand this question. Where exactly in the
drawing do you mean "between LED and grnd"? Do you mean in the
connection between the switch and ground, in series? I believe that leg
is providing ground for the LED. It would not be suitable for
connecting a load as the LED drops some voltage. If you mean connecting
a load between the switched terminal and ground, then yes, that would be
fine as long as the load doesn't draw more current than the switch is
rated for.


near 9/10 circuits I wired are direct connection to Batt with wire
gauges supplied by Powerstreams calculator. But there are places
without space or necessity that could be wired without a relay n
without loss of voltage.

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

there are extra LED on the shelf but that's more complication.

I rather suspect trolling.

I don't. I think it is someone who just isn't so good at writing what
he is thinking. Not everyone is so good with words. I have a friend
who can build nearly anything out of metal. But don't ask him to write
down any of his thinking.

--

Rick C

On Saturday, 13 May 2017 00:51:37 UTC+1, rickman wrote:
On 5/12/2017 7:12 PM, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 13 May 2017 00:04:38 UTC+1, rickman wrote:
On 5/12/2017 5:34 PM, wrote:

I rather suspect trolling.

I don't. I think it is someone who just isn't so good at writing what
he is thinking. Not everyone is so good with words. I have a friend
who can build nearly anything out of metal. But don't ask him to write
down any of his thinking.

I doubt it, but who knows.


NT

hmm. I expected a quick expert answer.

There a google images UTUBE, and finding a resistor fir the power to unit middle prong.

Relay use allows 8/10 GA wire from batt to the either control area in Milan or to near the powered unit area...thus reduceing voltage drop.

Aux lights on my van's roof with long wire runs receive near 13V.

The LED is integral.

On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 11:56:50 AM UTC-4, wrote:

ahno, the switch has an LED lighting when the switch circuit routes power from supply to powered unit. Switch feeds power to ground and thru the LED.

Are you sure you mean this? That much current through an LED would destroy it in short order. In parallel to the current path, perhaps. But not in series.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

On 5/16/2017 12:10 PM, wrote:
On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 11:56:50 AM UTC-4, wrote:

ahno, the switch has an LED lighting when the switch circuit routes power from supply to powered unit. Switch feeds power to ground and thru the LED.

Are you sure you mean this? That much current through an LED would destroy it in short order. In parallel to the current path, perhaps. But not in series.

The switch has three terminals, power, ground and switched. The LED is
internally switched and I'm sure it has a resistor as well.

--

Rick C

friend bcae

scroll down

http://www.bcae1.com/switches.htm

no, haven't blown any LED in various configuration I've tried ... a few brain cells ....

the question is can the hella and Amazon alikes be used with functional LED without the relay ? I have no resistors on shelf ...maybe next week. Does a resistor supply the drop as a substitute for the load ? ohmage ?

I'm waiting on a FEDEX part to continue.

the issue is on side track

the other questions are on hold for more research time as I'm not avoiding
you.

On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 4:02:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:
friend bcae

scroll down

http://www.bcae1.com/switches.htm

no, haven't blown any LED in various configuration I've tried ... a few brain cells ....

the question is can the hella and Amazon alikes be used with functional LED without the relay ? I have no resistors on shelf ...maybe next week. Does a resistor supply the drop as a substitute for the load ? ohmage ?

I'm waiting on a FEDEX part to continue.

the issue is on side track

the other questions are on hold for more research time as I'm not avoiding
you.

A or B but not C ..... and no, I haven't connected led to load to grnd in series. I lit an added LED for connection to power not grnd. All the successful connections here go directly to grnd thru the relay. Not thru load. I had thought. without theory, that this was connected to the total Ford system activating power to grnd. try separating application and demo in the same circuit ....

an excellent question. I needed 20 steps up from the keyboard when your question became obvious.

I give out Bcae's address to 'mechanics' like myself n they have results.

On 5/16/2017 5:44 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 4:02:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:
friend bcae

scroll down

http://www.bcae1.com/switches.htm

no, haven't blown any LED in various configuration I've tried ... a few brain cells ....

the question is can the hella and Amazon alikes be used with functional LED without the relay ? I have no resistors on shelf ...maybe next week. Does a resistor supply the drop as a substitute for the load ? ohmage ?

I'm waiting on a FEDEX part to continue.

the issue is on side track

the other questions are on hold for more research time as I'm not avoiding
you.

A or B but not C ..... and no, I haven't connected led to load to grnd in series. I lit ank added LED for connection to power not grnd. All the successful connections here go directly to grnd thru the relay. Not thru load. I had thought. without theory, that this was connected to the total Ford system activating power to grnd. try separating application and demo in the same circuit ....

an excellent question. I needed 20 steps up from the keyboard when your question became obvious.

I give out Bcae's address to 'mechanics' like myself n they have results.

Which switch do you have? Is the LED INSIDE the switch?

--

Rick C

On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 9:05:30 PM UTC-4, rickman wrote:
On 5/16/2017 5:44 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 4:02:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:
friend bcae

scroll down

http://www.bcae1.com/switches.htm

no, haven't blown any LED in various configuration I've tried ... a few brain cells ....

the question is can the hella and Amazon alikes be used with functional LED without the relay ? I have no resistors on shelf ...maybe next week. Does a resistor supply the drop as a substitute for the load ? ohmage ?

I'm waiting on a FEDEX part to continue.

the issue is on side track

the other questions are on hold for more research time as I'm not avoiding
you.

A or B but not C ..... and no, I haven't connected led to load to grnd in series. I lit ank added LED for connection to power not grnd. All the successful connections here go directly to grnd thru the relay. Not thru load. I had thought. without theory, that this was connected to the total Ford system activating power to grnd. try separating application and demo in the same circuit ....

an excellent question. I needed 20 steps up from the keyboard when your question became obvious.

I give out Bcae's address to 'mechanics' like myself n they have results.

Which switch do you have? Is the LED INSIDE the switch?

--

Rick C

the rockers I use are 3 pins as in Bcae's link above.

here is the gamut

https://www.amazon.com/b/ref=sr_aj?node=3398751&ajr=0

the Chinese have road tested fat tired glass packed Ford pickups ...

All E has new stock .....stating with 'built in resistors for 12Vdc .....

http://www.allelectronics.com/catego...-rocker/1.html

why resistors ?

On 5/17/2017 9:44 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 9:05:30 PM UTC-4, rickman wrote:
On 5/16/2017 5:44 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 4:02:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:
friend bcae

scroll down

http://www.bcae1.com/switches.htm

no, haven't blown any LED in various configuration I've tried ... a few brain cells ....

the question is can the hella and Amazon alikes be used with functional LED without the relay ? I have no resistors on shelf ...maybe next week. Does a resistor supply the drop as a substitute for the load ? ohmage ?

I'm waiting on a FEDEX part to continue.

the issue is on side track

the other questions are on hold for more research time as I'm not avoiding
you.

A or B but not C ..... and no, I haven't connected led to load to grnd in series. I lit ank added LED for connection to power not grnd. All the successful connections here go directly to grnd thru the relay. Not thru load. I had thought. without theory, that this was connected to the total Ford system activating power to grnd. try separating application and demo in the same circuit ....

an excellent question. I needed 20 steps up from the keyboard when your question became obvious.

I give out Bcae's address to 'mechanics' like myself n they have results.

Which switch do you have? Is the LED INSIDE the switch?

--

Rick C

the rockers I use are 3 pins as in Bcae's link above.

here is the gamut

https://www.amazon.com/b/ref=sr_aj?node=3398751&ajr=0

the Chinese have road tested fat tired glass packed Ford pickups ...

All E has new stock .....stating with 'built in resistors for 12Vdc .....

http://www.allelectronics.com/catego...-rocker/1.html

why resistors ?

I give up. The pages you point to show dozens of switches. I'm not
going to try to read your mind. If you can't tell me what switch you
are using, I'm not going to try to guess how to wire it.

--

Rick C

On Wednesday, 17 May 2017 14:52:27 UTC+1, rickman wrote:
On 5/17/2017 9:44 AM, wrote:

Which switch do you have? Is the LED INSIDE the switch?

the rockers I use are 3 pins as in Bcae's link above.

here is the gamut

https://www.amazon.com/b/ref=sr_aj?node=3398751&ajr=0

the Chinese have road tested fat tired glass packed Ford pickups ...

All E has new stock .....stating with 'built in resistors for 12Vdc .....

http://www.allelectronics.com/catego...-rocker/1.html

why resistors ?

I give up. The pages you point to show dozens of switches. I'm not
going to try to read your mind. If you can't tell me what switch you
are using, I'm not going to try to guess how to wire it.

the whole thread is him stringing folk along.


NT

GNAW .... the 3 pin Amazon rockers are the same construction

All Electronics states switches with resistors for 12V DC auto applications. Protecting the LED right ?

Now my van has 12 LED switches no problems BUT most prob around 10-11 activate Bosch type relays ....the remaining transmit power but the LED does not come on in that wiring configuration.

what happens here is wiring in series does not work but wiring in parallel is the existence for the 3 pin rocker. As in Bcae's diagram. Right ? Correct if I'm wrong

I appreciate the help and the turning question as a terminal block or 2 have problems probably due to hasty wiring in series vs parallel or parallel vs series. Checking thru the system when looming for downstream series/parallel connections is in odor maybe preventing voltage bleed.

On 5/20/2017 12:26 PM, wrote:


GNAW .... the 3 pin Amazon rockers are the same construction

All Electronics states switches with resistors for 12V DC auto applications. Protecting the LED right ?

Now my van has 12 LED switches no problems BUT most prob around 10-11 activate Bosch type relays ....the remaining transmit power but the LED does not come on in that wiring configuration.

what happens here is wiring in series does not work but wiring in parallel is the existence for the 3 pin rocker. As in Bcae's diagram. Right ? Correct if I'm wrong

I appreciate the help and the turning question as a terminal block or 2 have problems probably due to hasty wiring in series vs parallel or parallel vs series. Checking thru the system when looming for downstream series/parallel connections is in odor maybe preventing voltage bleed.

Which switch, which diagram?

--

Rick C

On Saturday, May 20, 2017 at 12:56:49 PM UTC-4, rickman wrote:
On 5/20/2017 12:26 PM, wrote:


GNAW .... the 3 pin Amazon rockers are the same construction

All Electronics states switches with resistors for 12V DC auto applications. Protecting the LED right ?

Now my van has 12 LED switches no problems BUT most prob around 10-11 activate Bosch type relays ....the remaining transmit power but the LED does not come on in that wiring configuration.

what happens here is wiring in series does not work but wiring in parallel is the existence for the 3 pin rocker. As in Bcae's diagram. Right ? Correct if I'm wrong

I appreciate the help and the turning question as a terminal block or 2 have problems probably due to hasty wiring in series vs parallel or parallel vs series. Checking thru the system when looming for downstream series/parallel connections is in odor maybe preventing voltage bleed.

Which switch, which diagram?

--

Rick C

trollish, scroll down to BASIC ROCKER SWITCH STRUCTURE


http://www.bcae1.com/switches.htm

On 5/20/2017 5:53 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2017 at 12:56:49 PM UTC-4, rickman wrote:
On 5/20/2017 12:26 PM, wrote:


GNAW .... the 3 pin Amazon rockers are the same construction

All Electronics states switches with resistors for 12V DC auto applications. Protecting the LED right ?

Now my van has 12 LED switches no problems BUT most prob around 10-11 activate Bosch type relays ....the remaining transmit power but the LED does not come on in that wiring configuration.

what happens here is wiring in series does not work but wiring in parallel is the existence for the 3 pin rocker. As in Bcae's diagram. Right ? Correct if I'm wrong

I appreciate the help and the turning question as a terminal block or 2 have problems probably due to hasty wiring in series vs parallel or parallel vs series. Checking thru the system when looming for downstream series/parallel connections is in odor maybe preventing voltage bleed.

Which switch, which diagram?

--

Rick C

trollish, scroll down to BASIC ROCKER SWITCH STRUCTURE


http://www.bcae1.com/switches.htm

That's ok. I've lost interest.

--

Rick C

Super replies.

In haste, wiring in series to parallel on a 6 inch drilled AL bus bar could reduce or eliminate voltage around the inflicted area but not at the other end. ?!

The systems growth was not considered during the first stage. The redo parts are on the shelf. Waiting for a hiatus.