On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:19:25 -0500, wrote:

There really isn't anything that will "dilute" gasoline that is not
either at least as flammable or at least as dangerous as gasoline
itself - particularly not that will not also destroy it's solvency.

Actually, while you're probably right in a *practical* sense, I'm sure there
are zillions of things that can dilute gasoline.

For example, Jeff already looked up what is in gasoline, so, diluting the
gasoline with any of those compounds would *probably* work.

Jeff mentioned for example,
a. butane,
b. isobutane,
c. pentane, and
d. isopentane.

Note to Jeff: I'm not sure if that is accurate though, because there must be
alkenes and alkynes, and aromatics too; but the point is that anything that
is *in* gas (which is a *lot* of things should be able to dilute it.

However, none of them appear to be 'common household chemicals'.

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:29:18 -0500, wrote:

The big danger with methanol combustion is you can't see the light
blue flame in a well lighted room - or even a poorly lighted one..
Other than that it is actually inherently safer than gasoline - and
the mixture is more dangerous than straight methanol as far as fire is
concerned.

I don't see alcohol, in any form, as viable, simply because I probably can't
easily get the alcohol without copious amounts of accompanying water.

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:32:59 -0500, wrote:

Turn your boots over and shake them before you put them on to be sure
there is no mouse or scorpian in your boot (or shoe)

Yup. That kind of advice.

It's the useless kind of advice that dumb mommy's love to give.

My sister keeps sending me these hoaxes to watch out for razor blades in my
kids halloween candy and to watch out for people selling cookies, etc.

There's a certain kind of person (most of those in the California Assembly,
in fact) who feel they need to be a nanny to everyone.

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 15:27:42 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:19:25 -0500, wrote:

There really isn't anything that will "dilute" gasoline that is not
either at least as flammable or at least as dangerous as gasoline
itself - particularly not that will not also destroy it's solvency.

Model T Fords would run on moonshine added to leaded gas :-)
They'd run on straight moonshine if you opened the jets enough.. Most
Model T's never saw "ethyl" gas as it was discovered in 1921 and
firstr sold retail in Dayton Ohio in 1923.. It was 1928 before you
could use leaded gas in NYC.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:42:10 -0000 (UTC), Raymond Spruance III
wrote:

I do wish you would use a single nym or alias, at least in the same
thread. It's becoming difficult to follow your various personality
changes.

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:31:08 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

So, by using gasoline for cleaning and label removal, you're dumping
VOCs into the atmosphere. If there was a reward, I would probably
turn you in for re-education and brain washing (using an eco friend
brain wash cleaner).

Yikes. And I invited you to our weekly inventors luncheon too!


You'll notice that I didn't attend. I don't invent, but prefer to
adapt or steal as required. I suspect that I would not be welcome.

Back to your original question about diluting gasoline, I'm wondering
why you need to dilute the gasoline. The best I could conjure is that
gasoline is expensive, being rather heavily taxed. Cutting it with a
cheaper untaxed hydrocarbon solvent might save a few pennies, but only
make sense if you're using gallons of the stuff. The problem is that
at about $2.50/gallon for gasoline, all the other solvents are at
least 3 times as expensive per gallon. Why do you need to dilute the
gasoline? How big or how many labels are you removing that the
process requires gallons of gasoline?


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:49:31 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
wrote:

For example, Jeff already looked up what is in gasoline, so, diluting the
gasoline with any of those compounds would *probably* work.

Jeff mentioned for example,
a. butane,
b. isobutane,
c. pentane, and
d. isopentane.

Note to Jeff: I'm not sure if that is accurate though, because there must be
alkenes and alkynes, and aromatics too; but the point is that anything that
is *in* gas (which is a *lot* of things should be able to dilute it.

Nope. Please re-read what I ranted. Quoting myself:
MSDS for Exxon regular gasoline:

http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/IntApps/psims/Download.aspx?ID=83534&docFormat=RTF
Looks like it contains all your favorite missing VOC's. According
to the MSDS, gasoline is a mix of butane, isobutane, pentane, and
isopentane.

The items your listed are what is in the "gasoline" portion of Exxon
regular in addition to the other noxious and banned stuff listed in
the MSDS. Exxon cleverly lists the major component of gasoline is
gasoline which seems rather circular.

Gasoline FAQ:
See section 4.4 What are the hydrocarbons in gasoline?
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part1/index.html

However, none of them appear to be 'common household chemicals'.

Depends on the household. If cooking dinner is much like a chemstry
experiment, then that would be an uncommon but appropriate household.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:42:08 -0000 (UTC), Raymond Spruance III
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:11:04 -0500, wrote:

The reason one solvent doesn't work all the time is there are so
many "glues" used to attach labels.

I understand.

You might not notice but I don't believe anyone who says any one solve works
all the time, because it's just not going to happen.

You'll notice that I take pains to say that the gasoline works "most" of the
time, and "more" so than the other solvents that I have tried (with acetone
coming in second to gasoline but a distant second at that).

Also, I didn't realize you guys actually put the solvent *on* the label,
which I never do.

I remove the labels first, and only *after* the label is gone, do I use the
solvent to try to get rid of the goop.

So some of us (e.g., peanut oil Oren! ) are attacking different problems.
Because of the evaporation rate of MOST of these solvents, using it
ON the label makes a lot of sense because it keeps the solvent in
contact with the glue longer before it evaporates. Try it.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:42:09 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 17:19:41 -0700, Charles Bishop wrote:

If ethanol works, how about isopropyl alcohol, a near relative?

The problem with *any* alcohol, is getting it without the water.

I guess mixing gasoline with water might not be a bad idea though.

Dunno. I never tried it.

But that's the theoretical problem with consumer alcohol (which is a lot of
water with some alcohol).
Try it some day - it will NOT mix. (water with gasoline)

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:49:31 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:19:25 -0500, wrote:

There really isn't anything that will "dilute" gasoline that is not
either at least as flammable or at least as dangerous as gasoline
itself - particularly not that will not also destroy it's solvency.

Actually, while you're probably right in a *practical* sense, I'm sure there
are zillions of things that can dilute gasoline.

For example, Jeff already looked up what is in gasoline, so, diluting the
gasoline with any of those compounds would *probably* work.

Jeff mentioned for example,
a. butane,
b. isobutane,
c. pentane, and
d. isopentane.

Note to Jeff: I'm not sure if that is accurate though, because there must be
alkenes and alkynes, and aromatics too; but the point is that anything that
is *in* gas (which is a *lot* of things should be able to dilute it.

However, none of them appear to be 'common household chemicals'.
TECHNICALLY adding anything that is part of gasoline is NOT diluting
it - in many cases it is making it "stronger"

I'm willing to bet there is NOTHING that will meet your requirements
as a "dilutent" for gasoline that will make it smell less, work as
well or better, be less dangerous, and not cost the moon.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:49:32 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:29:18 -0500, wrote:

The big danger with methanol combustion is you can't see the light
blue flame in a well lighted room - or even a poorly lighted one..
Other than that it is actually inherently safer than gasoline - and
the mixture is more dangerous than straight methanol as far as fire is
concerned.

I don't see alcohol, in any form, as viable, simply because I probably can't
easily get the alcohol without copious amounts of accompanying water.
And IF you can fet it 200 proof (100%) it will not stay that way
because it is TERRIBLT Hydroscopic. It will absorb moisture out of
desert air!!!

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:49:34 -0000 (UTC), Raymond Spruance III
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:32:59 -0500, wrote:

Turn your boots over and shake them before you put them on to be sure
there is no mouse or scorpian in your boot (or shoe)

Yup. That kind of advice.

It's the useless kind of advice that dumb mommy's love to give.

I don't call it useless advice depending where you are. I have had a
mouse in the bottom of my boot more than once on the farm, and
scorpians in my shoes several times in Africa.

My sister keeps sending me these hoaxes to watch out for razor blades in my
kids halloween candy and to watch out for people selling cookies, etc.

There's a certain kind of person (most of those in the California Assembly,
in fact) who feel they need to be a nanny to everyone.

wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:08:26 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 23:16:28 -0500, JC wrote:

Well, I'm just really glad I don't live in Califailia. I do like my
solvents.

I am hoping that the solvent that we scientifically come up with is not only
readily available, but that it *lowers* the negative qualities of gasoline.
There really isn't anything that will "dilute" gasoline that is not
either at least as flammable or at least as dangerous as gasoline
itself - particularly not that will not also destroy it's solvency.

Jet fuel. Plain kerosene.

Greg

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

How big or how many labels are you removing that the
process requires gallons of gasoline?

That's what I was wondering too, one aerosol can of label-remover has
lasted me several years so far ...

Andy Burns wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

How big or how many labels are you removing that the
process requires gallons of gasoline?

That's what I was wondering too, one aerosol can of label-remover has
lasted me several years so far ...


A quart bottle of citrus based Goo Gone lasted me over a decade.


https://www.buycott.com/upc/07004877...-32oz-goo-gone

--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 10:57:44 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 02:02:46 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 17:15:08 -0800, Oren wrote:

Lighter fluid, NAPHTHA!

Did you try peanut butter on the labels?

Butane might cut gasoline, as you suggested.
Naptha is almost certain verboten in California.


For removing labels I was suggesting lighter fluid (NAPHTHA) to remove
labels. Not suggesting mixing it with gas. I removes labels, tar,
grease & oil stains. https://tinyurl.com/hpzopew


I wasn't joking about peanut butter (smooth variety) either. It takes
longer so the oil soaks in and loosens the label. YMMV

But I'm not sure.
It's got to be sold in order for me to use it though.

I don't see naptha at Home Depot for example.
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Paint-Pai...vZc5bmZ1z0t5hf
Forget the peanut butter. Peanut OIL is what does the job - the
"butter" is just a carrier

A surplus store in Orlando, Florida used to use spray paint to
remove labels from reels of wire. What a mess!


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 09:53:52 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

A quart bottle of citrus based Goo Gone lasted me over a decade.

I'll bet you a jar of mayonnaise also lasts a while.
But making it yourself is far more enjoyable and far more tasty.

I'll bet you a jar of toilet bowl cleaner lasts a while too.
But once you've used muriatic acid, you'll never use a commercial solution
ever again.

If you knew how utterly *EFFECTIVE* gasoline is for dissolving most goop,
I'd bet you'd never use that goo gone stuff ever again.

I haven't tried the googone stuff, but gasoline literally melts most goop
off on contact.

How long does it take for the googone stuff to melt all the goop off in most
cases?

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 10:47:55 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

That's what I was wondering too, one aerosol can of label-remover has
lasted me several years so far ...

That's cheating.

That's like buying mayonnaise in a jar.
Sure, it's easy.

But it's no fun.
Making it yourself takes technique; but that's the fun of it.

Plus, often, a home-spun solution works far better (e.g., muriatic acid in
an encrusted toilet bowl works extremely well, and certainly worlds' better
than any grocery store solution you've ever used in your life!).

Sure, muriatic acid is dangerous.
But it's a readily available chemical that works like you can't believe, for
cleaning toilet bowl crud.

Same thing here.
Anyone, without a morsel of thought, can *buy* a ready-made solution.

Why even have a newsgroup titled anything.repair if all you do is buy a
ready-made solution?

Remember, I *already* have a perfectly good solution using three readily
available solvents:
1. Water (to remove paper labels)
2. Gasoline (to remove most goop)
3. Acetone (to remove the rare goop impervious to gasoline)

The only reason for the question was to figure out how to chemically cut the
gasoline down to 1/10th of full strength (or more) so that it possibly could
be used inside instead of outside.

It's not more complicated than that.

If you want to buy your solutions without thinking further about them,
that's fine as it's a perfectly viable and sensible approach.

There are plenty of people who don't cut down their own trees, and who don't
mix their own cement and who don't dig their own post holes and who don't
repair their own oscilloscopes, etc.

But I wouldn't think we'd find them on these two repair newsgroups, who are
all about getting scientific and technical and practical advice on home spun
solutions.

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:25:47 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

The problem is that
at about $2.50/gallon for gasoline, all the other solvents are at
least 3 times as expensive per gallon. Why do you need to dilute the
gasoline? How big or how many labels are you removing that the
process requires gallons of gasoline?

Thanks for thinking Jeff, and for asking thinking questions.
This question was always about chemistry.

Answers:
1. I only remove about 1 label a week (or so).
2. It's not the expense; it's the pleasure of using a home remedy solution
that actually works (if peanut butter really worked, that would be fine).
3. I've tried *all* the chemicals I keep at home.
4. Gasoline works more often than all the rest.
5. Acetone works second best (but not as well as gasoline).
6. Gasoline stinks up the house if used inside.
7. Plus it's too flammable to store under the kitchen sink.
8. So I'm just trying to use vastly diluted gasoline.
9. My hope is that a 1:10 gas:diluent solution will still work.
10. If it's a 1:10 solution of gas:diluent, it might not stink so bad.
11. And, a 1:10 solution might be more safely stored indoors.
12. That's the only reason I ask the scientific question.

I only remove a label about once every week or two.

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 22:48:00 -0500, wrote:

Because of the evaporation rate of MOST of these solvents, using it
ON the label makes a lot of sense because it keeps the solvent in
contact with the glue longer before it evaporates. Try it.

This is an interesting technique to keep the label on while applying the
solvent. It won't work, I'm sure, as well in plastic labels, but it might
work well for the paper labels.

Thanks for that suggestion. I will try it soon.

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:46:09 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Depends on the household. If cooking dinner is much like a chemstry
experiment, then that would be an uncommon but appropriate household.

This was written by a mad scientist who lives in your area:
'Your Mother was a Chemist"
http://kitchenscience.sci-toys.com/

How about Oops original? https://www.sherwin-williams.com/doc.../033873007556/

A hair dryer works on some labels.

Or dry cleaning solvent: http://www.shieldindustries.com/F_DCF.htm

See the specs for MSDS.

They include a lot of the solvents that were determined to work.

Gasoline in the house is about as stupid as operating a generator in the house. I hope you don't have natural gas appliances? I suspect you don't, otherwise we probably would not be having this discussion.

Robert Bannon writes:

7. Plus it's too flammable to store under the kitchen sink.

Glad you realize that.
Now think about this.

Once you dilute the gasoline, it will still release fumes,
carry the exact same risk, and smell just as bad.

--
Dan Espen

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:42:09 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 17:19:41 -0700, Charles Bishop wrote:

If ethanol works, how about isopropyl alcohol, a near relative?

The problem with *any* alcohol, is getting it without the water.

I guess mixing gasoline with water might not be a bad idea though.

Dunno. I never tried it.

But that's the theoretical problem with consumer alcohol (which is a lot of
water with some alcohol).
Ethanol is easily available in any decent hardware store as denatured
alcohol. It has a tiny amount of methanol in it to avoid taxes because
most people won't drink it.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 16:54:37 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 09:53:52 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

A quart bottle of citrus based Goo Gone lasted me over a decade.

I'll bet you a jar of mayonnaise also lasts a while.
But making it yourself is far more enjoyable and far more tasty.

I'll bet you a jar of toilet bowl cleaner lasts a while too.
But once you've used muriatic acid, you'll never use a commercial solution
ever again.

If you knew how utterly *EFFECTIVE* gasoline is for dissolving most goop,
I'd bet you'd never use that goo gone stuff ever again.

I haven't tried the googone stuff, but gasoline literally melts most goop
off on contact.

How long does it take for the googone stuff to melt all the goop off in most
cases?
You are HOPELESS.
No fool like an old fool.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 16:54:38 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 10:47:55 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

That's what I was wondering too, one aerosol can of label-remover has
lasted me several years so far ...

That's cheating.

That's like buying mayonnaise in a jar.
Sure, it's easy.

But it's no fun.
Making it yourself takes technique; but that's the fun of it.

Plus, often, a home-spun solution works far better (e.g., muriatic acid in
an encrusted toilet bowl works extremely well, and certainly worlds' better
than any grocery store solution you've ever used in your life!).

Sure, muriatic acid is dangerous.
But it's a readily available chemical that works like you can't believe, for
cleaning toilet bowl crud.

Same thing here.
Anyone, without a morsel of thought, can *buy* a ready-made solution.

Why even have a newsgroup titled anything.repair if all you do is buy a
ready-made solution?

Remember, I *already* have a perfectly good solution using three readily
available solvents:
1. Water (to remove paper labels)
2. Gasoline (to remove most goop)
3. Acetone (to remove the rare goop impervious to gasoline)

The only reason for the question was to figure out how to chemically cut the
gasoline down to 1/10th of full strength (or more) so that it possibly could
be used inside instead of outside.

It's not more complicated than that.

If you want to buy your solutions without thinking further about them,
that's fine as it's a perfectly viable and sensible approach.

There are plenty of people who don't cut down their own trees, and who don't
mix their own cement and who don't dig their own post holes and who don't
repair their own oscilloscopes, etc.

But I wouldn't think we'd find them on these two repair newsgroups, who are
all about getting scientific and technical and practical advice on home spun
solutions.
IF you could "dilute" gasoline 10 "1/10th" strength it would take 10
times as long to do the job, or only do 1/10 the job.

You are beating a VERY dead horse.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:51:54 -0500, wrote:

IF you could "dilute" gasoline 10 "1/10th" strength it would take 10
times as long to do the job, or only do 1/10 the job.

No. That's not correct.
More appropriately that's almost certainly not correct.
(but there is a very slight chance that it could be correct).

It all depends on the minimum effective dose (and on solubility of goop in
gas).

As an out-of-context example, of what I am telling you:
a. I can put out a lit match with a gallon of water.
b. Or, I can put out that match with a quart of water.
c. Or I can put out that match with a spoon of water.

If the minimum effective dose is a spoon, then the gallon of water is
overkill.

Let's take the LD50 for poisons as another example:
a. Let's say you can kill a rat with 1 ounce of warfarin.
b. If you use a pound of warfarin, you'll kill the rat.
c. But if you dilute that pound in half, you'll still kill the rat.
d. In fact, you can dilute that pound 1:16 and still kill that rat.

Same with using Acetone as nail polish remover.
You can dilute 100% acetone by a LOT where it still works fine.

The question we don't know the answer to is what the minimum effective
concentration of the solvents in gasoline that dissolve the goop.

I'm sure 1:10 is fine, but I don't know that for sure since I don't know how
to dilute the gasoline yet to test it out.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 14:50:39 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:

Once you dilute the gasoline, it will still release fumes,
carry the exact same risk, and smell just as bad.

Maybe. Maybe not.

If I **** in your cup of water, it will stink like urine and look like urine
and taste like urine (don't ask - I don't know).

Now, if I dilute that **** 10:1 or 100:1, I'd wager none of the deleterious
effects will occur.

That's why they say the solution to pollution is dilution.
All chemicals work that way.

Why is gasoline any different than all other chemicals?

Robert Bannon writes:

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 14:50:39 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:

Once you dilute the gasoline, it will still release fumes,
carry the exact same risk, and smell just as bad.

Maybe. Maybe not.

If I **** in your cup of water, it will stink like urine and look like urine
and taste like urine (don't ask - I don't know).

Now, if I dilute that **** 10:1 or 100:1, I'd wager none of the deleterious
effects will occur.

That's why they say the solution to pollution is dilution.
All chemicals work that way.

Why is gasoline any different than all other chemicals?

I'm sorry, that's not how chemistry works.
You quoting an old saying doesn't even sound logical.
Here's what Google says:

Pollution mixing zones are streams or bodies of water where polluters
(industrial, municipal or individual) can legally obtain a permit to
dump bio-accumulative chemicals, sewage, mining waste water at high
concentrations based on the mistaken old rule that €œdilution is the
solution to pollution.€�

In chemistry, when you mix two compounds, you either get a reaction
or a mixture (no chemical reaction).

If you get a reaction, the odds are, you no longer have gasoline
and it will no longer work as before,

If you don't get a reaction, the gasoline is still there, creating
fumes, and it's still flammable.

--
Dan Espen

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 21:29:40 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:51:54 -0500, wrote:

IF you could "dilute" gasoline 10 "1/10th" strength it would take 10
times as long to do the job, or only do 1/10 the job.

No. That's not correct.
More appropriately that's almost certainly not correct.
(but there is a very slight chance that it could be correct).

It all depends on the minimum effective dose (and on solubility of goop in
gas).

As an out-of-context example, of what I am telling you:
a. I can put out a lit match with a gallon of water.
b. Or, I can put out that match with a quart of water.
c. Or I can put out that match with a spoon of water.

If the minimum effective dose is a spoon, then the gallon of water is
overkill.

Let's take the LD50 for poisons as another example:
a. Let's say you can kill a rat with 1 ounce of warfarin.
b. If you use a pound of warfarin, you'll kill the rat.
c. But if you dilute that pound in half, you'll still kill the rat.
d. In fact, you can dilute that pound 1:16 and still kill that rat.

Same with using Acetone as nail polish remover.
You can dilute 100% acetone by a LOT where it still works fine.

The question we don't know the answer to is what the minimum effective
concentration of the solvents in gasoline that dissolve the goop.

I'm sure 1:10 is fine, but I don't know that for sure since I don't know how
to dilute the gasoline yet to test it out.
Get it through your thick skull.
IT CANNOT BE DONE.

This is the last you will here from me on this thread.

In article ,
Robert Bannon wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:25:47 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

The problem is that
at about $2.50/gallon for gasoline, all the other solvents are at
least 3 times as expensive per gallon. Why do you need to dilute the
gasoline? How big or how many labels are you removing that the
process requires gallons of gasoline?

Thanks for thinking Jeff, and for asking thinking questions.
This question was always about chemistry.

Answers:
1. I only remove about 1 label a week (or so).
2. It's not the expense; it's the pleasure of using a home remedy solution
that actually works (if peanut butter really worked, that would be fine).
3. I've tried *all* the chemicals I keep at home.
4. Gasoline works more often than all the rest.
5. Acetone works second best (but not as well as gasoline).
6. Gasoline stinks up the house if used inside.
7. Plus it's too flammable to store under the kitchen sink.
8. So I'm just trying to use vastly diluted gasoline.
9. My hope is that a 1:10 gas:diluent solution will still work.
10. If it's a 1:10 solution of gas:diluent, it might not stink so bad.
11. And, a 1:10 solution might be more safely stored indoors.
12. That's the only reason I ask the scientific question.

I only remove a label about once every week or two.

You mentioned 1 to 10 a while back and I forgot to ask 1 of what to 10
of what?

If it's 1 of gasoline to 10 of whatever, and this works, why not use the
whatever full strength? Because you're choosing the whatever based on
price - it costs at least less than gasoline - why not use it?

Others have mentioned the danger and I don't think it's severe if you
are using a baby food jar of it, sealed.

If you are doing once a week, do the prep work inside - soak in water,
scrape most of it off, using a single edge blade for most of the gunk,
and then finish outside. If the weather isn't good, store several weeks
worth until it is.

--
chalres

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 16:54:40 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:46:09 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Depends on the household. If cooking dinner is much like a chemstry
experiment, then that would be an uncommon but appropriate household.

This was written by a mad scientist who lives in your area:
'Your Mother was a Chemist"
http://kitchenscience.sci-toys.com/

Yep. I think that I recognize him and the obnoxious African grey
parrot. Lives in BC. See photo at:
http://kitchenscience.sci-toys.com/Introduction

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 16:54:37 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 09:53:52 -0500, Michael A. Terrell
wrote:

A quart bottle of citrus based Goo Gone lasted me over a
decade.

I'll bet you a jar of mayonnaise also lasts a while.
But making it yourself is far more enjoyable and far more
tasty.

I'll bet you a jar of toilet bowl cleaner lasts a while
too.
But once you've used muriatic acid, you'll never use a
commercial
solution ever again.

If you knew how utterly *EFFECTIVE* gasoline is for
dissolving most
goop, I'd bet you'd never use that goo gone stuff ever
again.

I haven't tried the googone stuff, but gasoline literally
melts most
goop off on contact.

How long does it take for the googone stuff to melt all
the goop off
in most cases?
You are HOPELESS.
No fool like an old fool.

No fool like ald fool thats so easily trolled

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 16:54:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:25:47 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

The problem is that
at about $2.50/gallon for gasoline, all the other solvents are at
least 3 times as expensive per gallon. Why do you need to dilute the
gasoline? How big or how many labels are you removing that the
process requires gallons of gasoline?

Thanks for thinking Jeff, and for asking thinking questions.

I won't thank you for questioning my answers.

This question was always about chemistry.

Also about safety.

1. I only remove about 1 label a week (or so).

Use the commercial label removing goo. At that rate, a small bottle
will last years.

3. I've tried *all* the chemicals I keep at home.

Since I don't know what chemicals you have at home, that information
is useless. However, more interesting would be the type of labels
that you're dealing with. You seem to be having far too much trouble
for it to be one of the more common types of labels.

I have some permanent labels that have some solvent mixed in with the
glue. When attached to plastic or paint, they will literally solvent
weld themselves to the plastic or paint, as well as to the plastic
backing in the label. When I scrape those off with a razor, I usually
find some damage to the underlying paint or plastic.

9. My hope is that a 1:10 gas:diluent solution will still work.

It won't work very well. Pretend you put a 1 molecule layer of
solvent against a glued surface. Each solvent molecule will break one
hydrogen bond on one molecule of glue. No problem here. However,
you're diluting the solvent 1:10 with perhaps water, which has no
effect. So, only one in 11 molecules of glue is disassociated. Of
course, other solvent molecules can displace the water, but that take
agitation, which is not possible with a thinly glued surface. More
simply, the diluted mixture will work 1/10th as well as full strength.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvent

10. If it's a 1:10 solution of gas:diluent, it might not stink so bad.

Gasoline is a VOC (volatile organic compound). The stench is produced
by simple evaporation. Gasoline volatility is measured as the Reid
(absolute) Vapor Pressure is somewhere between 8 and 10 psi.
https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/volatility-regulations-gasoline-and-alcohol-blends
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_vapor_pressure
It varies with season, type of gasoline, temperature, and whims of the
Environmental Protection Agency.

When you mix gasoline with something that has a much lower vapor
pressure, such as water which is 0.95 psi at 100F, the vapor pressure
remains that of the most volatile component, but with a reduced
evaporation rate due a reduction in surface exposure. A bucket of
10:1 gasoline water mix, will have 10 times as many water molecules as
gasoline molecules exposed on the surface of the bucket. Therefore,
assuming perfect mixing, a really bad assumption as gasoline floats on
water, the rate of gasoline evaporation will be 1/11th the rate of a
bucket full of 100% gasoline. The room in which you store the bucket
of gasoline will have the same amount of smelly gasoline molecules in
both cases at equilibrium, but the 10:1 mix might take about 10 times
as long to smell up the room.

I only remove a label about once every week or two.

Use the commercial label remover and be done with the chemistry
lessons.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 19/11/2016 11:05, Robert Bannon wrote:
Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?

I use gasoline as a home goo-gone substitute for removing labels.
Most often I do it outside, because of the stink, but I want to keep it
inside in tiny amounts, diluted as much as possible.

I've already tried all the common home chemicals from alcohol to acetone to
lemon juice to engine degreaser to dish detergent to brake cleaner to windex
to automatic-transmission fluid and MAF cleaner, all of which work sometimes
but all of which fail often (either because they melt the container or they
don't dissolve the goo).

I've even tried common flavorings such as orange blossom extract, rose
water, pure lemon extract, coconut oil and walnut oil, which, surprisingly,
are totally useless (but they do smell the best!).

I've found, through decades of experience, that gasoline, which also fails
sometimes, works more often than any other household common chemical.

But gasoline has all the problems that most of you will love to "teach" me,
but that's not the question (so please don't try to teach me why gasoline
vapors are flammable and why I should goo-be-gone outdoors because I know
that).

Also please don't try to teach me that there are commercial lemon-oil
solutions.

I just want to dilute the gasoline and I already know that even the diluted
gasoline vapors will be flammable. We take risks sometimes when working
around the house and not being a pussy about it all the time.

So I plan to keep a small jar of gasoline properly labeled under the kitchen
sink (let's not go into the dangers of doing that, because properly diluting
it won't solve that danger for the most part).

Without being a pussy about the question, do you have any suggestion that
you think might work best to dilute the gasoline 10:1 (or even 100:1) so
that I'm using the minimum effective amount of gasoline indoors?

What can I 'cut' the gasoline with that will mix with the gas and dilute it
(maybe 10:1 or even maybe 100:1)?

Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?



Don't use gasoline. It still contains enough benzene to mess you up in
the long term.

Use biodiesel. It works, and is non-toxic, and cheap. I am talking about
trans-esterified cooking oil. There are a lot of websites about how to
make it, from KOH, methanol and filthy frier oil, but you can also buy
it, usually about the same price as regular diesel. If made (and washed)
properly, there is no methanol left in it at the end of the process.

If you doubt its abilities to clean off gunk, here is one example: After
a few months it stripped the paint off the inside of my jerry can (and I
then had to filter all of the lumps and flakes out so I could use the
fuel). It also took the greasy layer off my bathtub better than any
household cleaner that I tried. I used it to remove many labels. You can
then wash it off easily with ordinary detergent and hot water. It won't
melt plastics in the short term (though it might soften epoxy and will
swell rubber if you leave it on for weeks). It also smells nice (if you
like fried food).

Robert Bannon wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 09:53:52 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

A quart bottle of citrus based Goo Gone lasted me over a decade.

I'll bet you a jar of mayonnaise also lasts a while.

It would last forever, since I don't eat that ****.


But making it yourself is far more enjoyable and far more tasty.

I'll bet you a jar of toilet bowl cleaner lasts a while too.
But once you've used muriatic acid, you'll never use a commercial solution
ever again.



If you knew how utterly *EFFECTIVE* gasoline is for dissolving most goop,
I'd bet you'd never use that goo gone stuff ever again.


If you knew how utterly stupid that your trolling is, you would quit.



I haven't tried the googone stuff, but gasoline literally melts most goop
off on contact.

How long does it take for the googone stuff to melt all the goop off in most
cases?

I use a cotton ball that has a few drops of the solvent on it. I rub
it on the label to apply it, then I let it sit for a few minutes. Quite
often, the label peels off with no residue. If there is residue, I
simply wipe it away with the same cotton ball.

I can even use it to remove price tags from paperback books, without
staining the paper. I have removed thousands of inventory labels from
SMD component reels, while leaving the OEM labels that they had covered,
intact.

It is also good to remove ink from most plastics, without any damage.


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:17:06 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton wrote:

Ok, but I still don't understand why you're adamant about doing the
solvent phase indoors. Is it too cold out where you live?

What are most household chemicals?
They're just *diluted* versions of chemicals.
Right?

For example, what's household bleach?
It's just diluted bleach.

What is nail polish remover?
It's just pretty smelling diluted acetone or ethyl acetate.

What is rubbing alcohol?
It's just vastly diluted isopropyl alcohol.

Why not just use the concentrate?
Concentrated pool bleach is what I use in my washing machine.
Concentrated muriatic acid is what I use in my toilet bowl.
Pure acetone is what my kids use for removing nail polish.

So, currently, I use the "concentrated" goo remover outside, which works
fine as gasoline melts virtually all food jar label goop, and what gasoline
doesn't melt, the acetone generally does.

While I use most of my chemicals in the concentrated form, gasoline stinks
and is flammable so I want to simply dilute the gasoline so that it (a)
doesn't stink as much and so that it (b) isn't as flammable.

If that were easy to do, I never would have asked.
BTW, I'm sure it's doable - simply because I can dilute with petroleum
distiallates. I just don't happen to have cans of petroleum distillates
lying around.

I suspect the gasoline works almost as well at 1/10th its original
concentration, as gasoline is just petroleum distillates anyway, which is
what most "spirits" are.

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 00:21:07 +0000, Robert Bannon wrote:

On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:17:06 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton wrote:

Ok, but I still don't understand why you're adamant about doing the
solvent phase indoors. Is it too cold out where you live?

What are most household chemicals?
They're just *diluted* versions of chemicals.
Right?

For example, what's household bleach?
It's just diluted bleach.

What is nail polish remover?
It's just pretty smelling diluted acetone or ethyl acetate.

What is rubbing alcohol?
It's just vastly diluted isopropyl alcohol.

Why not just use the concentrate?
Concentrated pool bleach is what I use in my washing machine.
Concentrated muriatic acid is what I use in my toilet bowl.
Pure acetone is what my kids use for removing nail polish.

So, currently, I use the "concentrated" goo remover outside, which works
fine as gasoline melts virtually all food jar label goop, and what
gasoline doesn't melt, the acetone generally does.

While I use most of my chemicals in the concentrated form, gasoline
stinks and is flammable so I want to simply dilute the gasoline so that
it (a) doesn't stink as much and so that it (b) isn't as flammable.

If that were easy to do, I never would have asked.
BTW, I'm sure it's doable - simply because I can dilute with petroleum
distiallates. I just don't happen to have cans of petroleum distillates
lying around.

I suspect the gasoline works almost as well at 1/10th its original
concentration, as gasoline is just petroleum distillates anyway, which
is what most "spirits" are.

Mineral oil works for me for many types of goop - adhesive.

On Saturday, November 19, 2016 at 8:19:45 PM UTC-5, Charles Bishop wrote:

The thread has 84 responses, some of which ignore your question to
advise you on safety.

Sure. As the OP is a candidate for a Darwin Award either from self-immolation or the breathing of toxic fumes leading to cancer or similar, and as "real men" are scarce on the ground, we were all concerned.

I have found that very hot water first, then a bit of vegetable oil rubbed in with the back of a knife gets about any label off of about any glass jar with only a bit of effort. I cannot even fathom why anyone would use gasoline inside or out for this purpose. Shrink-wrap plastic labels are a bit of a challenge, but in these cases, a single-edge razor or carpet knife does a fine job of removing the label, leaving only a small amount of adhesive. Then the hot water and vegetable oil for that.

But a benzene based solvent? YIKES!

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancerc...kplace/benzene

Please note the interpolations:

On Monday, November 21, 2016 at 7:21:09 PM UTC-5, Robert Bannon wrote:

What are most household chemicals?
They're just *diluted* versions of chemicals.
Right?

For example, what's household bleach?
It's just diluted bleach.

Sure, anything from about 2% to about 5% sodium hypochlorite. And why is it diluted? So that the user stands a chance of not being damaged by accidental misuse. As simple as micturating into a toilet with a bleach concentrate in it.

What is nail polish remover?
It's just pretty smelling diluted acetone or ethyl acetate.

Yes, as either is explosive if misused, spilled, or concentrated in a closed room. 2.5% to 13%. & 3.3% to 9% respectively. And both have exceedingly low flash points.

What is rubbing alcohol?
It's just vastly diluted isopropyl alcohol.

70% is diluted. 91% less so, and 100% is readily available. But the vapor pressure is far lower than acetone or ethanol, and so far less dangerous. Still, explosive at 2.2%

Why not just use the concentrate?
Concentrated pool bleach is what I use in my washing machine.

You dress all in white or use solution-dyed man-made fabrics, then?

Concentrated muriatic acid is what I use in my toilet bowl.

If it is called 'concentrated' and 'muriatic acid', it is not as much of a joke, but it is not glacial hydrochloric acid. THAT is the concentrate. And in any case you had best be on a municipal sewer system as you are making short work of your septic system using concentrated bleach and acids.

Pure acetone is what my kids use for removing nail polish.

Ah, so you are looking for as much collateral damage as possible when you collect your Darwin Award? And you are teaching your kids all this as well?

So, currently, I use the "concentrated" goo remover outside, which works
fine as gasoline melts virtually all food jar label goop, and what gasoline
doesn't melt, the acetone generally does.

If you were to live alone and away from anyone else, why not? But as it is, you are concentrating a large number of dangerous chemicals in dangerous forms in the same house as your family.

While I use most of my chemicals in the concentrated form, gasoline stinks
and is flammable so I want to simply dilute the gasoline so that it (a)
doesn't stink as much and so that it (b) isn't as flammable.

So is Acetone & Ethanol. Bleach is corrosive and can release chlorine, chloramine gas and react badly with any number of materials making very toxic byproducts. Acetone and Ethanol are explosive, damage a great many plastics and finishes, and are very often abused in and of themselves.

Muriatic (*hydrochoric*) acid is one of the most active acids on the planet, and will react with many things in any concentration at all. It is also colorless and odorless, burns skin very nearly instantly and much more. Mixed with many common household chemicals it can release compounds that are exceedingly deadly. These include hydrogen sulphide, straight chlorine gas, even igniting (as in fire) steel wool. That burns VERY hot.

If that were easy to do, I never would have asked.
BTW, I'm sure it's doable - simply because I can dilute with petroleum
distiallates. I just don't happen to have cans of petroleum distillates
lying around.

I suspect the gasoline works almost as well at 1/10th its original
concentration, as gasoline is just petroleum distillates anyway, which is
what most "spirits" are.

There are distillates and there are distillates. Gasoline is Benzene based. Most household chemicals are not. And if you do not understand the fundamental differences between the two, you well and truly are hopeless.

I hope that your family is at/past the 'leaving home' stage as you are, truly, a disaster in the making.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2012-03.html

As one example. There are thousands around gasoline.


Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA