On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:01:23 -0800, "Mike Kohary" wrote:

Macrovision is "copy encryption" (or copy protection, as I'd put it). It
doesn't matter what the copy protection scheme is; the DMCA applies equally
to all.

At first, Macrovision is a violation of technical TV-standards,
putting impulses there where they should not be to hassle the
automatic gain control of VHS-recorders. With legal availible
timebase-correctors you can regenerate the signal to the NTSC- or
PAL-standard. (And I am not sure about the legality to write NTSC on a
DVD or VHS-Tape when the output is not real NTSC but has this
Macrovision in it)

Maybe they should sell PAL-DVDs in the US. I expect that nearly nobody
owns PAL-VHS so they are very well copy protected

--
Martin D. Bartsch
ARD Paris
German TV Allemande

On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 06:54:57 -0800, "Richard C." post-age
@spamcop.net wrote:

More wonderful words from dickmatter.

My advantage as a non-english speaker is that I haven't learned this
words at school.


--
Martin D. Bartsch
ARD Paris
German TV Allemande

"Mike Kohary" wrote in message
...
"Martin D. Bartsch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 23:08:23 -0800, DarkMatter
wrote:

It opens the door to the thieves, regardless of how
honorable or noble your intentions are.

A society who will close every possible backdoor for every possible
illegal action will be worse than everything Hitler or Stalin could
imagine.

Liberty is also the liberty to commit a crime (and to be punished
later)

Well said. As an American, I find it very sad that so many other fellow
Americans are so willing, even eager and aggressive, to give up their
rights. How shameful.

Mike

Mike, you have some of the best, most well presented posts on this topic
I've seen. Kudos to you, bud. You're right on target with everything
you've said.

"Justin" wrote in message
...
Martin D Bartsch wrote on [Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:09:01 +0100]:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:37:44 GMT, Justin wrote:

Yes, illegal to copy a DVD. It is illegal to bypass a copy protection
mechanism. Therefore, by copying it you are bypassing it.

No. if you can bypass it it is not a copy protection mechanism.


So, if you have a lock on your door that you can open with a pair of
bolt cutters, it's not a lock?

It's more like going around the door.

"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 00:44:49 GMT, "HellRazor" Gave
us:


You have no communication skills and are incapable of civil interaction
with
other people. Every post you make proves my point. But by all means,
continue your sad, pathetic little antisocial outbursts.


I could easily dig up your first retarded post to me and prove that
it is you that has a problem.

By all means, knock yourself out, Usenet boy! (Just goes to show that even
a monkey can learn to use Google!)

From that post on, you get not a
****ing thing from me, dip****.

LOL! Like you would have anything I'd want!

The only reason I treat you like a
piece of **** is because you ARE a piece of ****, boy.

You seem to treat everyone in the same hateful, antisocial manner,
DorkMatter. That's because you're a very sad confused little man.

There is NO communicating with your fecal brained ass.

That's because communication is a two-way process between two intelligent
people who are capable of being civil. You're simply not intelligent and
you're incapable of being civil. You're antisocial with deep rooted anger
management problems, probably because you are frustrated in your low paying
janitorial career and you're tired of living in the trailer park with your
mom.

If there were, your retarded ass would have shaped up over half a
year ago.

More like "shape down", I wouldn't lower myself to your standards!

Idiots like you are easy to spot, a mile away.

A lot of people sure seem to have spotted you, anger boy.

So not only are you in the barrel, but you get dowsed in **** at
every turn, because that's all you got comin' jackoff.

Whatever you say, Mr. Wood!

"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:46:26 -0600, gothika
Gave us:

They have no rights to mandate how you view it.

You are incorrect. If you utilize hardware that defeats their
protection schemas, you are violating their rights, and federal laws.

So what? Most people don't give a rat's ass, what are you gonna do about it?

"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:52:06 -0600, "Schism"
Gave us:



I do laugh at that.. you obviously have no idea how the legal system
works... Even if they did, so what, who gives a **** if some 16 year old
copies some of his friends DVDs? They'd need proof and a warrant to even
enter the house, you can't get that on someones word alone. Maybe if you
got
busted for some other crime they might possibly try to charge you with
something, but even that is doubtful.

Your behavior in here, and through your ISP may just give them those
rights.

Watch out, dip****. You ARE vulnerable. For you... that's a good
thing.

I'll make sure to be shaking in my boots the next time I copy rented DVDs.

So, if you have a lock on your door that you can open with a pair of
bolt cutters, it's not a lock?

if i own the door, and i want it open, im going to open it.

It's more like going around the door.

"HellRazor" wrote in message
news:kn93c.88786$PR3.1252290@attbi_s03...

There is NO communicating with your fecal brained a**.

That's because communication is a two-way process between two intelligent
people who are capable of being civil. You're simply not intelligent and
you're incapable of being civil. You're antisocial with deep rooted anger
management problems, probably because you are frustrated in your low
paying
janitorial career and you're tired of living in the trailer park with your
mom.


Well said! I couldn't have said it better myself.
It's almost impossible to carry on a conversation with someone who has a
mouth that AJAX couldn't clean up. Why in the world would anyone want to
even "try" to carry on a meaningful dialog with someone who is engrossed
with foul language. Then try to look all holy and tell you that your
committing a sin by trying to copy something that is copy-protected. Copy
it all day long, they put protection on it and all you will be doing in
ruining blank DVD's. That's why they protected it.

For all intents and purposes, this no longer has ANYTHING to do with
electronics repair so let's quit wasting bandwidth and move it out of the
repair forum. Lastly, I say that when little DorkMatter finishes up the
eighth grade and learns a few respectable words, someone can converse with
him. Until then, let him work on that ulcer he's developing.

Gary

Mike posted:
The DMCA makes it illegal to thwart the copy protection, yet you *DO* have
the right to make a copy for your own personal use. It's a legal paradox
which must be resolved. Which part of this isn't clear to you?
--
What law gives me the right to make a copy of a purchased DVD movie?

I am aware that many companies authorize buyers to make a copy of a *program*
disc they have purchased, but a purchased DVD is not the same.

Don

"Dbowey" wrote in message ...
Mike posted:
The DMCA makes it illegal to thwart the copy protection, yet you *DO* have
the right to make a copy for your own personal use. It's a legal paradox
which must be resolved. Which part of this isn't clear to you?
--
What law gives me the right to make a copy of a purchased DVD movie?

Fair use laws. You have the right to make copies of anything
you own -- audio cassette tapes, video cassette tapes, computer
software etc. What you cannot do legally is sell those copies,
show them publicly or otherwise make money off of them.

I am aware that many companies authorize buyers to make a copy of a *program*
disc they have purchased, but a purchased DVD is not the same.

Software developers (and the entertainment industry) doesn't
"authorize" anyone to do anything. You have these rights,
regardless of what's printed in a shrink-wrapped end-user
license agreement, or what Sony's lawyers want you to
believe.

Rick

Rick posted:
"Dbowey" wrote in message
...
Mike posted:
The DMCA makes it illegal to thwart the copy protection, yet you *DO* have
the right to make a copy for your own personal use. It's a legal paradox
which must be resolved. Which part of this isn't clear to you?
--
What law gives me the right to make a copy of a purchased DVD movie?

Fair use laws. You have the right to make copies of anything
you own -- audio cassette tapes, video cassette tapes, computer
software etc. What you cannot do legally is sell those copies,
show them publicly or otherwise make money off of them.

I am aware that many companies authorize buyers to make a copy of a *program*
disc they have purchased, but a purchased DVD is not the same.

Software developers (and the entertainment industry) doesn't
"authorize" anyone to do anything. You have these rights,
regardless of what's printed in a shrink-wrapped end-user
license agreement, or what Sony's lawyers want you to
believe.


I see. From your (Rick) point of view, this "right" comes from your
self-proclamation in support of your desire to steal DVD content. I bet you
also think there is a Natural Right to steal music. How about cars and other
objects you want to have, but don't wish to pay for?

Did you get this thought process from your parents? Friends? You don't sound
smart enough to have thought it up all by yourself, but, maybe.....

Don

"Dbowey" wrote in message ...
Rick posted:
"Dbowey" wrote in message
...
Mike posted:
The DMCA makes it illegal to thwart the copy protection, yet you *DO* have
the right to make a copy for your own personal use. It's a legal paradox
which must be resolved. Which part of this isn't clear to you?
--
What law gives me the right to make a copy of a purchased DVD movie?

Fair use laws. You have the right to make copies of anything
you own -- audio cassette tapes, video cassette tapes, computer
software etc. What you cannot do legally is sell those copies,
show them publicly or otherwise make money off of them.

I am aware that many companies authorize buyers to make a copy of a *program*
disc they have purchased, but a purchased DVD is not the same.

Software developers (and the entertainment industry) doesn't
"authorize" anyone to do anything. You have these rights,
regardless of what's printed in a shrink-wrapped end-user
license agreement, or what Sony's lawyers want you to
believe.


I see. From your (Rick) point of view, this "right" comes from your
self-proclamation in support of your desire to steal DVD content. I bet you
also think there is a Natural Right to steal music. How about cars and other
objects you want to have, but don't wish to pay for?

Did you get this thought process from your parents? Friends? You don't sound
smart enough to have thought it up all by yourself, but, maybe.....

Backing up your software, and time/space shifting your
video and music is not stealing. At least that's what the
United States Supreme Court said 20 years ago.

Rick

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 07:13:40 -0800 DarkMatter
wrote in Message id:
:

On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 12:46:16 -0500, JW Gave us:

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 17:27:39 -0800 DarkMatter
wrote in Message id:
:

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 22:52:07 GMT, Jan Panteltje
Gave us:


By copying a copy protected DVD you are defeating the copy protection
mechanism. If you weren't defeating it then you wouldn't be copying it.
But if you could copy it, then for sure it was not copy protected ;-)

Dingledorf. If one uses a method to allow the copying of a disc,
and it was encrypted, it was a copyrighted disc, and is illegal to
extract directly.

Don't you have somewhere else to troll?

**** you, jack-off boy.

Nah, You're not my type, you attention-starved moron.

"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:52:06 -0600, "Schism"
Gave us:



I do laugh at that.. you obviously have no idea how the legal system
works... Even if they did, so what, who gives a **** if some 16 year old
copies some of his friends DVDs? They'd need proof and a warrant to even
enter the house, you can't get that on someones word alone. Maybe if you
got
busted for some other crime they might possibly try to charge you with
something, but even that is doubtful.

Your behavior in here, and through your ISP may just give them those
rights.

Watch out, dip****. You ARE vulnerable. For you... that's a good
thing.

Spoken like a true nazi.

"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 01:30:48 GMT, "HellRazor" Gave
us:

Mike, you have some of the best, most well presented posts on this topic
I've seen. Kudos to you, bud. You're right on target with everything
you've said.


You're an idiot.

I pity you.

"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:05:14 -0800, "Mike Kohary" Gave
us:

"Martin D. Bartsch" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 23:08:23 -0800, DarkMatter
wrote:

It opens the door to the thieves, regardless of how
honorable or noble your intentions are.

A society who will close every possible backdoor for every possible
illegal action will be worse than everything Hitler or Stalin could
imagine.

Liberty is also the liberty to commit a crime (and to be punished
later)

Well said. As an American, I find it very sad that so many other fellow
Americans are so willing, even eager and aggressive, to give up their
rights. How shameful.

Turn off the power, broken record brain. You are a sad American.

While you're just....sad.

"Mike Kohary" wrote in message
...
"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 23:51:36 +0100, Martin D. Bartsch
Gave us:

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 23:08:23 -0800, DarkMatter
wrote:

It opens the door to the thieves, regardless of how
honorable or noble your intentions are.

A society who will close every possible backdoor for every possible
illegal action will be worse than everything Hitler or Stalin could
imagine.

You're a goddmaned idiot.

What a brilliant rebuttal. Are you capable of civil debate at all, or is
this all you have in the chamber?

Mike


I think he's just blown his wad.

"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 01:35:28 GMT, "HellRazor" Gave
us:


"Justin" wrote in message
...
Martin D Bartsch wrote on [Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:09:01 +0100]:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:37:44 GMT, Justin
wrote:

Yes, illegal to copy a DVD. It is illegal to bypass a copy protection
mechanism. Therefore, by copying it you are bypassing it.

No. if you can bypass it it is not a copy protection mechanism.


So, if you have a lock on your door that you can open with a pair of
bolt cutters, it's not a lock?

It's more like going around the door.

You're a retarded idiot.

Polly want a cracker?

"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 01:48:00 GMT, "HellRazor" Gave
us:


By all means, knock yourself out, Usenet boy! (Just goes to show that
even
a monkey can learn to use Google!)

No, retard boy. It's right here, on this machine, you clueless
twit.

Only a loser like you would save usenet traffic on his local computer. But
then, of course, this is the only world you can troll around within without
getting your ass kicked.

"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:02:32 -0500, "Gary"
Gave us:

For all intents and purposes, this no longer has ANYTHING to do with
electronics repair so let's quit wasting bandwidth and move it out of the
repair forum. Lastly, I say that when little DorkMatter finishes up the
eighth grade and learns a few respectable words, someone can converse
with
him. Until then, let him work on that ulcer he's developing.

You're a ****ing idiot, dorkoflex. I was the one that complained
about this petty bull**** being on and in the wrong groups to begin
with. Get a clue.

And yet you continue to crosspost it. Dork.

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 07:26:52 -0800, DarkMatter
wrote:

I don't give a **** about a downconverted copy for your kids.

But that was the original question


--
Martin D. Bartsch
ARD Paris
German TV Allemande

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 07:06:45 -0800, DarkMatter
wrote:

Yes, if you copy a disc, you have by-passed at least one protection
scheme.

No way. When my friends come to me with the new CD which will not play
in their car-radio, I put it in my old vintage Plextor CD-drive and
make a copy. I bypassed nothing.


--
Martin D. Bartsch
ARD Paris
German TV Allemande

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 07:28:46 -0800, DarkMatter
wrote:

You're a goddmaned idiot.

Liberty is also the liberty to commit a crime (and to be punished
later)

Now, I know that you are retarded. Free society is also about being
raised with enough ****ing brains, and self control to know right from
wrong, and remain on the side of right.

You couldn't be more ****ing wrong.

I would like to please you to use more arguments and less words I
never learned at school so that I will not be able to understand you.
For example I have no idea in which manner a sexual action is linked
with our discussion about copy-right.


--
Martin D. Bartsch
ARD Paris
German TV Allemande

"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:54:28 GMT, "HellRazor" Gave
us:


"DarkMatter" wrote in
message
.. .
On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:52:06 -0600, "Schism"
Gave us:



I do laugh at that.. you obviously have no idea how the legal system
works... Even if they did, so what, who gives a **** if some 16 year
old
copies some of his friends DVDs? They'd need proof and a warrant to
even
enter the house, you can't get that on someones word alone. Maybe if
you
got
busted for some other crime they might possibly try to charge you with
something, but even that is doubtful.

Your behavior in here, and through your ISP may just give them those
rights.

Watch out, dip****. You ARE vulnerable. For you... that's a good
thing.

Spoken like a true nazi.

You're more retarded than Maxtard is.

So speaketh the King of the Retards!

"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:45:44 -0800, "Mike Kohary" Gave
us:

That isn't the point. If I make something, and one of the provisos
for YOU having a copy is that YOU agree not to duplicate it, then by
buying it you agree to that BINDING contract. It doesn't get much
simpler than that.

By answering this post which I have made, one of the provisions is
that YOU agree that you are pathetic sack of ****. You also agree to
seek immediate psychiatric help. This is a BINDING
contract. By answering, you agree to the contract.

I'm sorry.

Yes, you're the sorriest sack of **** I've ever spoken to!

What you need is the likes of me busting down your door,
reminding you that these freedoms came at a price, and will only
continue with an attached price.

What you need is a strong sedative and a padded cell!

For you to be wearing blinders as it
suits you does not change that fact.

One man's fact is another man's pyschotic episode.

Also, the "likes of me" has as much right to post here as any one of
you other assholes, or in your case, asswipes.

That's what makes our country great. Even assholes have rights!

Please exercise your right to eat **** and die, you lowlife!

"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:31:24 +0100, Martin D. Bartsch
Gave us:

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 07:26:52 -0800, DarkMatter
wrote:

I don't give a **** about a downconverted copy for your kids.

But that was the original question

Yes... IN THE WRONG ****ING GROUPS.

Well gee, maybe if you'd stop CROSS POSTING, the replies would be in
THE RIGHT ****ING GROUPS, you ****ing tard!

"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:31:25 +0100, Martin D. Bartsch
Gave us:


I would like to please you to use more arguments and less words I
never learned at school so that I will not be able to understand you.
For example I have no idea in which manner a sexual action is linked
with our discussion about copy-right.

If you are so *****ING* retarded as to be an adult, yet not know
that the word is one of the most used modifiers in existence, you
certainly shouldn't be posting *or* reading in Usenet.

Don't feel bad, even those of us who speak English have problems
understanding DorkMatter.

"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:31:25 +0100, Martin D. Bartsch
Gave us:

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 07:06:45 -0800, DarkMatter
wrote:

Yes, if you copy a disc, you have by-passed at least one protection
scheme.

No way. When my friends come to me with the new CD which will not play
in their car-radio, I put it in my old vintage Plextor CD-drive and
make a copy. I bypassed nothing.

This is a DVD group, dip****. The discussion is about copy
protection schemes used on DVDs.

Go back, read the ****ing thread, get a clue, and try again.

Says the clueless cross-posting **** who is posting to 4 different groups
with 4 different subjects.

Stop trolling.

"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:00:38 GMT, "HellRazor" Gave
us:


"DarkMatter" wrote in
message
.. .
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 01:48:00 GMT, "HellRazor" Gave
us:


By all means, knock yourself out, Usenet boy! (Just goes to show that
even
a monkey can learn to use Google!)

No, retard boy. It's right here, on this machine, you clueless
twit.

Only a loser like you would save usenet traffic on his local computer.
But
then, of course, this is the only world you can troll around within
without
getting your ass kicked.

I have every post I ever made, or ever read, you retarded twit.
That's 3 years worth. I have zero posts which I did not read.

How very sad and pathetic of you!

As far as "trolling around" goes, if you are so ****ing sure, then
come to San Diego, and we'll see who's ass gets kicked.

Post your address, tough guy. Ooops, I forgot. You won't because then you
wouldn't be anonymous anymore and the fan club you've earned for yourself
might come knocking.

Pussy.

"DarkMatter" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:05:27 GMT, "HellRazor" Gave
us:

Stop trolling.

**** off, troll boy.

LOL! Good one. I see your tiny little brain is running on all 4 cyclinders
tonight.

"Mike Kohary" wrote in message ...
"HellRazor" wrote in message
news:c793c.87293$ko6.443147@attbi_s02...

"Mike Kohary" wrote in message
...
"Martin D. Bartsch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 23:08:23 -0800, DarkMatter
wrote:

It opens the door to the thieves, regardless of how
honorable or noble your intentions are.

A society who will close every possible backdoor for every possible
illegal action will be worse than everything Hitler or Stalin could
imagine.

Liberty is also the liberty to commit a crime (and to be punished
later)

Well said. As an American, I find it very sad that so many other fellow
Americans are so willing, even eager and aggressive, to give up their
rights. How shameful.

Mike

Mike, you have some of the best, most well presented posts on this topic
I've seen. Kudos to you, bud. You're right on target with everything
you've said.

Thanks.

Your other handle that just complimented you says "you're welcome."

My only aim is to get my fellow consumers up in arms about the way
their rights to fair use are being siphoned away by greedy and unscrupulous
industries and their trade groups.


It sucks how you have no right to other people's property, huh? Maybe
when you actually produce something, you'll show more maturity than a
five-year-old.

Mike

In article ,
DarkMatter wrote:

Every time you buy a disc, you agree not to duplicate it with a
legally binding contract.

Yeah! Just not that DickMatter isn't a lawyer - he just plays one on TV.

"Mike Kohary" wrote in message ...

In many states, it's not illegal for a minor to smoke, but it's illegal for
them to buy cigarettes. Anyway...

The point is, there is a huge battleground right now, between consumers and
media companies.

You mean criminals and media companies.

The DMCA is ground zero for the battle at the moment, and
while a DVD consumer such as yourself may or may not be particularly
interested in taking a side, I would advise that if you do take a side, it
be against the DMCA.

Of course you would, like a good little criminal. True consumers
couldn't care less about this **** and go along their merry way not
worrying for one second that they have no rights to copy their DVD's
for "protection." The idea is fundamentally preposterous; they don't
expect to be able to "copy" their cars, TV sets, refrigerators, and
prostitutes in case their "kids mess them up" or whatever other lies
pirates inflict on the ignorant to garner support for their morally
bankrupt positions. Therefore the only ones breaking a sweat over crap
like this are those who steal from the companies, and, like the nice
little cowards they are, instead of recognizing that they're getting
what's coming to them, they're trying to rally the troops. Too bad you
lot are so incredibly transparent.

The DMCA is a draconian law that completely favors
media industry and tramples the consumer's rights to fair use of their
legally purchased product.

Like I said upthread, it sucks that you have no rights to other
people's property, huh?

It causes all sorts of hassles and
inconveniences,

Sure, for criminals.

from not being able to route your DVD player through your
VCR because of Macrovision,

Thank the pirates for that.

to preventing you from exercising your legal
right to make a backup copy of any media/data you have legally purchased.

Backup copies being used about 99.9999999% of the time for illegal
purposes forced the DMCA. Again, thank the pirates for that.


The big problem is, while many of these laws and measures stymie the
criminal element, they also stymie those who act in a perfectly legal
manner.

Well they'd have to care first and foremost. But on Bizarro World
where consumers actually care about this kind of inconsequential
nonsense, they can again thank the pirates for forcing the property
owners' hands.

I'll bet that if a cop pulled you over for an illegal random
vehicle search, using the justification that his actions help catch real
criminals and represent only a minor inconvenience to legal folks such as
yourself (the old "If you aren't guilty, you have nothing to be afraid of"
schtick) that you'd be pretty upset about that.

Sure, but the cops aren't coming into your bedroom and going through
your DVD-R's so there's no physical intrusion. Come up with an analogy
that makes sense.


Of course, by copying the product you are circumventing the copy
protection.

Indeed, hence the paradox.

It's not a paradox. You don't get to make copies of DVD's anymore. And
you never should have. Again, thank the pirates.

Which law beats out which law? That is partly
what the courts are trying to decide now. The most recent decision, against
DVD X Copy, is a blow to the consumer, regardless of how you feel about that
particular product.

Again, you misspelled "criminal."


Mike

"Mike Kohary" wrote in message ...
"Martin D. Bartsch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 23:08:23 -0800, DarkMatter
wrote:

It opens the door to the thieves, regardless of how
honorable or noble your intentions are.

A society who will close every possible backdoor for every possible
illegal action will be worse than everything Hitler or Stalin could
imagine.

Hello, Hyperbole!


Liberty is also the liberty to commit a crime (and to be punished
later)

Well said. As an American, I find it very sad that so many other fellow
Americans are so willing, even eager and aggressive, to give up their
rights. How shameful.

It's incredibly disengenuous to link the "rights" you have as a DVD
consumer with the rights that "as an American" implies. If I had the
confidence that your verbal diahrrea was intentional, I'd put a gun in
my mouth this very instant, fearing and loathing a society that could
produce someone so amoral.


Mike

"Mike Kohary" wrote in message ...
"Justin" wrote in message
...
Rick wrote on [Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:58:45 -0800]:

Making a backup of one's own property is not stealing,
regardless of what the entertainment industry wants you
to believe.

Well, that's really up for debate though. You do not own the content of
the disc, you only have a license to use it.

It's not up for debate

You're right, you don't have the right. That was easy.

- fair use dictates it.

Mike

"Mike Kohary" wrote in message ...
"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:24:14 -0800, "Mike Kohary" Gave
us:

Degradation or lack thereof was never a reason for the fair use rights of
consumers.

That actually was one of the arguments that swayed the decision.

The degradation of VHS tapes, which is what the law was drafted
based on arguments that they shouldn't have to be repurchased.

That may have come later, but the original argument involved videotaping
shows off of TV broadcasts. Maybe I need to re-read the original casefile
(it's been a long time), but I don't believe degradation was an issue at
that time.

Anyway, it's obviously irrelevant today. Discs don't degrade (at least on
our time scale), but that doesn't change the fact that you're allowed to
make a copy for your own personal use.

No digital extractions and no full res "backups" should be ever
considered legal. It opens the door to the thieves, regardless of how
honorable or noble your intentions are.

But you can't infringe on the rights of innocent people because of what you
fear the criminal element might do.

All rights aren't inalienable, sorry. I'm perfectly willing to give up
my "right" to ever copy anything digital if it'll **** off even one
pirate for just one second. Considering the property owners'
counterattacks have done alot more than that (and in an admittedly
short time as well), and I wave goodbye to such "rights" and laugh and
laugh and laugh.

We see entirely too much of that today
already, and it's not a justification.

Sure it is. The pirates fired the first (billion) shots, they're
getting ****ed up the ass now, and all is right with the world. If you
(assuming you're being honest which is almost beyond comprehension at
this point) don't get to "backup" your DVD's anymore, so be it. Thank
the pirates.

How far are we going to allow that
to go?

LOL, "first they came for the people who backed up their DVD's..."
You're a joke. You realize that, right?


I am a perfectly law-abiding consumer,

I doubt that.

and if I want to make a copy of a DVD
I legally purchased, for my own personal use, I should be able to do so.

No you shouldn't. Your contrived desires don't supersede the property
holder's rights to protect themselves from gutless cowards who traffic
in P2P.

What another person might do shouldn't intrude on my rights as a consumer to
do this.

Blame the pirates. BTW, "wants" would more neatly encapsulate the
precious "rights" you're fighting tooth and nail to protect.


Mike

"No Time" wrote in message om...
"Mike Kohary" wrote in message ...

In many states, it's not illegal for a minor to smoke, but it's illegal for
them to buy cigarettes. Anyway...

The point is, there is a huge battleground right now, between consumers and
media companies.

You mean criminals and media companies.

No, consumers and media companies. Consumers who,
according to our courts, have the rights to time shift and
space shift their digital media. The DMCA has failed more
legal challenges than it has passed, and it will eventually fail
in the 321 case, too. It's going down in flames faster than
anyone imagined it ever could.

The DMCA is ground zero for the battle at the moment, and
while a DVD consumer such as yourself may or may not be particularly
interested in taking a side, I would advise that if you do take a side, it
be against the DMCA.

Of course you would, like a good little criminal. True consumers
couldn't care less about this **** and go along their merry way not
worrying for one second that they have no rights to copy their DVD's
for "protection."

Librarians, researchers and millions of other Americans have
legitimate needs to do things the DMCA claim are illegal.
They should all be thrown in jail, eh Adolf?
http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/unintended_consequences.php

Don't hold your breath. Actually, on second thought..

Rick

Mike Kohary wrote:
"DarkMatter" wrote in message
...

Every time you buy a disc, you agree not to duplicate it with a
legally binding contract. Every time you index past the FBI warning,
and the Interpol warning, you agree not to duplicate the IP on the
disc. EVERY TIME... PERIOD... No exceptions as it relates to
copyrighted works.


As a matter of fact, you're wrong.

Mike

Totally correct Mike!

You are legally entitled to make a single copy of anything you own that
may be copyrighted, it's called "Fair Use", and until the nazi's get
back in power we will always have that right!

You don't however have the right to sell that copy on!

Jason

Mike Kohary wrote:
"No Time" wrote in message

Mike, you have some of the best, most well presented posts on this

topic

I've seen. Kudos to you, bud. You're right on target with everything
you've said.

Thanks.

Your other handle that just complimented you says "you're welcome."


I only post under this "handle", which happens to be my real name.

http://www.kohary.com


My only aim is to get my fellow consumers up in arms about the way
their rights to fair use are being siphoned away by greedy and

unscrupulous

industries and their trade groups.

It sucks how you have no right to other people's property, huh? Maybe
when you actually produce something


I'm a professional photographer; copyright issues are very near and dear to
my heart, and in fact to my livlihood.

http://www.karmaphotography.com

This is, of course, not about having any "right to other people's (sic)
property". It's about my rights to fairly use the products that I buy.


Under "Fair use" would we have the right to make a copy of a photo we
may have bought from you?

Jason