On 10/14/2014, 7:13 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 07:43:04 +0100, Charlie+ wrote:

Interesting, I am UK based and energy costs here are probably much
higher here than in US which may alter the costings so much that a heat
pump wont be feasible for you...
....

Incidentally, you might be amused at how water heaters are rated and
priced. A few years ago, the bottom of my 40 gallon electric water
heater filled with calcium carbonate causing the lower heating element
to blow out. It was rusted in place and not easily replaced. The
heater was old, so I decided a new heater was best. I went to the
local Home Depot store and noticed that heaters were rated and priced
by their warranty life as 6, 9, and 12 year heaters. Current prices
a
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Water-Heaters-Residential-Electric/N-5yc1vZc1u1Z2bcu0t?NCNI-5
$248, $338, and $548 respectively. I asked what was the difference
and received a few bad guesses. The weight of these heaters was
exactly the same, so there was no difference in tank design or
construction. The 6 year heater used lower power elements, but that
shouldn't effect the cost.

I eventually determined that the primary difference was the anode
protection rod in each heater. The 6 year heater used a very small
anode rod. The 9 year used a much larger anode. The 12 year had dual
anodes. The problem was the rods cost about $25/each which is
reflected in the $100 to $200 price difference between the three
models. The 6 year heater had the port for the 2nd anode sealed shut,
so I bought the 9 year model, and added a 2nd anode for a cost of
about $25. Net savings from the 12 year model:
$548 - $338 - $25 = $185
I also installed a permanent drain line, so that the calcium carbonate
will not accumulate again.

Of course you should change your anode every few years - assuming you
can extract it. The house we bought last summer has a replaceable anode
but I can't unscrew it. The tank will fail in a year or two, but then
I'm looking for one with a replaceable anode and do a bi-annual change.

John :-#)#


But if
your electricity costs are low then the payback time on the equipment
may not make sense just for a little domestic hot water... Ground
source is much more expensive on the outlay than air source! C+

Yep. That's the problem. The most efficient system is not always the
most economical.





--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 20:32:01 -0700, John Robertson
wrote:

Of course you should change your anode every few years - assuming you
can extract it. The house we bought last summer has a replaceable anode
but I can't unscrew it. The tank will fail in a year or two, but then
I'm looking for one with a replaceable anode and do a bi-annual change.

I learned a few lessons trying to extract the anode rod from the old
tank. With the tank empty, a long handled "torque amplifier" did a
great job of twisting the water heater jacket into a simulated
pretzel. I didn't know I was that strong. It might have survived if
it had water inside and I didn't put my foot on the jacket when
applying brute force. Learn by Destroying(tm).

When I mentioned the problem to a plumber, he indicated that it was a
common problem, and that an electric or pneumatic impact wrench works
much better. I didn't have a reason to try it, so I don't know if
that's really a good idea. Also, when I installed the 2nd anode rod,
I smeared it with some edible grease. Insulating it with Teflon tape
doesn't seem like a good idea. In a year or two, try the impact
wrench.

I found some instructions on how to remove the rod, which recommends
WD-40 and an impact wrench. Getting the WD-40 out of the water is
going to be interesting since it's not water soluble.
http://waterheatertimer.org/Replace-anode-rod.html

In my derangement, I didn't have enough clearance above the water
heater to insert or remove the rod. They make anodes that are on a
chain to make it possible to replace them without proper clearance,
but I didn't buy one of those. So, I tipped over the water heater,
inserted the 2nd rod, tipped it back up, and continued the
installation. When it's time to replace either rod, I'll need to
drain the heater, disconnect everything, tip it over again, and
extract the rods. Not fun, bad planning, etc.

I'm not sure of the exact anode replacement interval. The previous
water heater lasted about 15 years before the lime accumulation killed
the lower heater element. I assume the lifetime is affected by
whatever is in the water. Inspecting the anode rod would be helpful,
but if it's stuck or difficult to remove, that might be difficult.

Good luck and how did we get from LED lighting to water heaters?

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

In sci.electronics.repair Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 20:32:01 -0700, John Robertson
wrote:

Of course you should change your anode every few years - assuming you
can extract it. The house we bought last summer has a replaceable anode
but I can't unscrew it. The tank will fail in a year or two, but then
I'm looking for one with a replaceable anode and do a bi-annual change.

I learned a few lessons trying to extract the anode rod from the old
tank. With the tank empty, a long handled "torque amplifier" did a
great job of twisting the water heater jacket into a simulated
pretzel. I didn't know I was that strong. It might have survived if
it had water inside and I didn't put my foot on the jacket when
applying brute force. Learn by Destroying(tm).

Same method I used, except the heater had 40 gallons of water in it.
It didn't move, but eventually the anode rod cap did.


When I mentioned the problem to a plumber, he indicated that it was a
common problem, and that an electric or pneumatic impact wrench works
much better. I didn't have a reason to try it, so I don't know if
that's really a good idea. Also, when I installed the 2nd anode rod,
I smeared it with some edible grease. Insulating it with Teflon tape
doesn't seem like a good idea. In a year or two, try the impact
wrench.

Seriously? You think the teflon tape will insulate it? Pipe threads
are designed for an interference fit, the pipe threads will cut
through the tape with ease. The tape is just to fill the gap between
the male & female threads.


I found some instructions on how to remove the rod, which recommends
WD-40 and an impact wrench. Getting the WD-40 out of the water is
going to be interesting since it's not water soluble.
http://waterheatertimer.org/Replace-anode-rod.html

In my derangement, I didn't have enough clearance above the water
heater to insert or remove the rod. They make anodes that are on a
chain to make it possible to replace them without proper clearance,
but I didn't buy one of those. So, I tipped over the water heater,
inserted the 2nd rod, tipped it back up, and continued the
installation. When it's time to replace either rod, I'll need to
drain the heater, disconnect everything, tip it over again, and
extract the rods. Not fun, bad planning, etc.

Just bend the rods when you remove them, they're either magnesium or
aluminum alloy on a wire. Replace with the bendable variety.


I'm not sure of the exact anode replacement interval. The previous
water heater lasted about 15 years before the lime accumulation killed
the lower heater element. I assume the lifetime is affected by
whatever is in the water. Inspecting the anode rod would be helpful,
but if it's stuck or difficult to remove, that might be difficult.

Inspect the rods every year or two, when you start to see mostly wire
it's time for replacement.


Good luck and how did we get from LED lighting to water heaters?

On 10/15/2014 4:07 PM, Jerry Peters wrote:
I learned a few lessons trying to extract the anode rod from the old
tank. With the tank empty, a long handled "torque amplifier" did a
great job of twisting the water heater jacket into a simulated
pretzel. I didn't know I was that strong. It might have survived if
it had water inside and I didn't put my foot on the jacket when
applying brute force. Learn by Destroying(tm).

Same method I used, except the heater had 40 gallons of water in it.
It didn't move, but eventually the anode rod cap did.

Good luck and how did we get from LED lighting to water heaters?


The ones I got off ebay (shopping for price) were
dim. But, the ones they used over the church
are really great.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 20:07:02 +0000 (UTC), Jerry Peters
wrote:

In sci.electronics.repair Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Insulating it with Teflon tape
doesn't seem like a good idea. In a year or two, try the impact
wrench.

Seriously? You think the teflon tape will insulate it?

No. It would reduce the contact area. However, the current through
the anode is so low, it probably would make no difference.

Pipe threads
are designed for an interference fit, the pipe threads will cut
through the tape with ease. The tape is just to fill the gap between
the male & female threads.

With Teflon tape filling the gaps, I can re-insert the rod using less
torque than I would with a metal to metal fit, thus making it easier
to remove at a later date, and hopefully maintaining a leak proof
seal. At least that's my theory, which remains untested.

Just bend the rods when you remove them, they're either magnesium or
aluminum alloy on a wire. Replace with the bendable variety.

This was a new rod that I was trying to insert, so bending was not an
option. I should have purchased the sausage style of rod.

Inspect the rods every year or two, when you start to see mostly wire
it's time for replacement.

On my water heater (GE/Rheem something), I have two separate holes for
the two rods. On some others, the 2nd rod is combined with the hot
water outlet, making inspection rather awkward:
http://waterheatertimer.org/images/Anode-top-of-heater-600.jpg
http://waterheatertimer.org/Replace-anode-rod.html
I'm tempted to add yet another hole and see if a borescope inspection
camera will.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558