Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old March 19th 14, 04:53 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,099
Default Dirty connector update-more info

Thanks so far Cydrome, Matt, and Jon for reading and replying with
suggestions for finding the board problem. Last night I identified
every device on the board and made a list. The only things not on the
list are the resistors. I checked each one to see if the resistance
was the same as what the colored bands show and they all checked out
fine. The list of the rest of the components follows.
Thanks for reading.
Eric
FADAL 1040-2A INTERFACE CIRCUIT BOARD DEVICES

U1-Motorola - SN74LS122N RETRIGGERABLE MONOSTABLE MULTIVIBRATORS
U2 STMicroelectronics T74LS08BI QUAD 2-INPUT AND GATE
U3- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U4- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U5- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U6- NATIONAL - CD40106BCN Hex Schmitt Trigger
U7- BI Technologies - 898-1-R15K Dual In-Line Thick Film Resistor
Network
U8- LM393P DUAL DIFFERENTIAL COMPARATOR
U9- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U10- NATIONAL - DM74ALS273N Octal D-Type Edge-Triggered Flip-Flop
U11- NATIONAL - DM74ALS273N Octal D-Type Edge-Triggered Flip-Flop
U12- NATIONAL - DM74ALS273N Octal D-Type Edge-Triggered Flip-Flop
U13- NATIONAL - DM74ALS244AN Octal 3-STATE Bus Driver
U14- NATIONAL - DM74ALS244AN Octal 3-STATE Bus Driver
U15- NATIONAL - DM74LS14N Hex Inverter with Schmitt Trigger Inputs
U16- NATIONAL - DM74LS14N Hex Inverter with Schmitt Trigger Inputs
U17- NATIONAL - DM74LS14N Hex Inverter with Schmitt Trigger Inputs
U18- NATIONAL - DM74LS14N Hex Inverter with Schmitt Trigger Inputs
U19- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U20- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U21-AMD 26LS33PC QUAD DIFFERENTIAL LINE RECIEVER
U22-AMD 26LS33PC QUAD DIFFERENTIAL LINE RECIEVER
U23- NATIONAL - DM74ALS273N Octal D-Type Edge-Triggered Flip-Flop
U24- NATIONAL - DM74LS14N Hex Inverter with Schmitt Trigger Inputs
U25- BI Technologies - 898-1-R15K Dual In-Line Thick Film Resistor
Network
U26- NATIONAL - DM74ALS244AN Octal 3-STATE Bus Driver
U27- NATIONAL - DM74ALS244AN Octal 3-STATE Bus Driver
U28- NATIONAL - 555CN TIMER

CR- ICL8069DCSQ - LOW VOLTAGE REFERENCE

C1- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C2- DIPPED ELECTROLYTIC TYPE 10 uF
C3- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C4- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C5- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C6- DIPPED ELECTROLYTIC TYPE 10 uF
C7- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C8- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C9- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C10- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C11- DIPPED ELECTROLYTIC TYPE 10 uF
C12- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C13- DIPPED ELECTROLYTIC TYPE 47 uF
C14- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C15- SQUARE FILM TYPE 102K
C16- SQUARE FILM TYPE 102K
C17- SQUARE FILM TYPE 102K
C18- SQUARE FILM TYPE 102K
CAP BRIDGING U21- SQUARE FILM TYPE 102K

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com


  #2   Report Post  
Old March 19th 14, 05:39 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,188
Default Dirty connector update-more info

On 19/03/2014 15:53, wrote:
Thanks so far Cydrome, Matt, and Jon for reading and replying with
suggestions for finding the board problem. Last night I identified
every device on the board and made a list. The only things not on the
list are the resistors. I checked each one to see if the resistance
was the same as what the colored bands show and they all checked out
fine. The list of the rest of the components follows.
Thanks for reading.
Eric
FADAL 1040-2A INTERFACE CIRCUIT BOARD DEVICES

U1-Motorola - SN74LS122N RETRIGGERABLE MONOSTABLE MULTIVIBRATORS
U2 STMicroelectronics T74LS08BI QUAD 2-INPUT AND GATE
U3- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U4- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U5- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U6- NATIONAL - CD40106BCN Hex Schmitt Trigger
U7- BI Technologies - 898-1-R15K Dual In-Line Thick Film Resistor
Network
U8- LM393P DUAL DIFFERENTIAL COMPARATOR
U9- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U10- NATIONAL - DM74ALS273N Octal D-Type Edge-Triggered Flip-Flop
U11- NATIONAL - DM74ALS273N Octal D-Type Edge-Triggered Flip-Flop
U12- NATIONAL - DM74ALS273N Octal D-Type Edge-Triggered Flip-Flop
U13- NATIONAL - DM74ALS244AN Octal 3-STATE Bus Driver
U14- NATIONAL - DM74ALS244AN Octal 3-STATE Bus Driver
U15- NATIONAL - DM74LS14N Hex Inverter with Schmitt Trigger Inputs
U16- NATIONAL - DM74LS14N Hex Inverter with Schmitt Trigger Inputs
U17- NATIONAL - DM74LS14N Hex Inverter with Schmitt Trigger Inputs
U18- NATIONAL - DM74LS14N Hex Inverter with Schmitt Trigger Inputs
U19- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U20- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U21-AMD 26LS33PC QUAD DIFFERENTIAL LINE RECIEVER
U22-AMD 26LS33PC QUAD DIFFERENTIAL LINE RECIEVER
U23- NATIONAL - DM74ALS273N Octal D-Type Edge-Triggered Flip-Flop
U24- NATIONAL - DM74LS14N Hex Inverter with Schmitt Trigger Inputs
U25- BI Technologies - 898-1-R15K Dual In-Line Thick Film Resistor
Network
U26- NATIONAL - DM74ALS244AN Octal 3-STATE Bus Driver
U27- NATIONAL - DM74ALS244AN Octal 3-STATE Bus Driver
U28- NATIONAL - 555CN TIMER

CR- ICL8069DCSQ - LOW VOLTAGE REFERENCE

C1- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C2- DIPPED ELECTROLYTIC TYPE 10 uF
C3- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C4- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C5- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C6- DIPPED ELECTROLYTIC TYPE 10 uF
C7- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C8- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C9- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C10- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C11- DIPPED ELECTROLYTIC TYPE 10 uF
C12- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C13- DIPPED ELECTROLYTIC TYPE 47 uF
C14- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C15- SQUARE FILM TYPE 102K
C16- SQUARE FILM TYPE 102K
C17- SQUARE FILM TYPE 102K
C18- SQUARE FILM TYPE 102K
CAP BRIDGING U21- SQUARE FILM TYPE 102K

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com


I would inspect all visible solder joints, check the CR voltage and
around the 555 and change all the electrolytics.
Record changes and take representative voltages around anything
analogue, if problem recurs then attack something else.
I assume all the TTL is soldered direct to pcb , not socketed, if
socketted then likely suspect there. Any use of vias ?
  #3   Report Post  
Old March 19th 14, 06:01 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,099
Default Dirty connector update-more info

On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 16:39:49 +0000, N_Cook wrote:

On 19/03/2014 15:53, wrote:
Thanks so far Cydrome, Matt, and Jon for reading and replying with
suggestions for finding the board problem. Last night I identified
every device on the board and made a list. The only things not on the
list are the resistors. I checked each one to see if the resistance
was the same as what the colored bands show and they all checked out
fine. The list of the rest of the components follows.
Thanks for reading.
Eric
FADAL 1040-2A INTERFACE CIRCUIT BOARD DEVICES

U1-Motorola - SN74LS122N RETRIGGERABLE MONOSTABLE MULTIVIBRATORS
U2 STMicroelectronics T74LS08BI QUAD 2-INPUT AND GATE
U3- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U4- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U5- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U6- NATIONAL - CD40106BCN Hex Schmitt Trigger
U7- BI Technologies - 898-1-R15K Dual In-Line Thick Film Resistor
Network
U8- LM393P DUAL DIFFERENTIAL COMPARATOR
U9- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U10- NATIONAL - DM74ALS273N Octal D-Type Edge-Triggered Flip-Flop
U11- NATIONAL - DM74ALS273N Octal D-Type Edge-Triggered Flip-Flop
U12- NATIONAL - DM74ALS273N Octal D-Type Edge-Triggered Flip-Flop
U13- NATIONAL - DM74ALS244AN Octal 3-STATE Bus Driver
U14- NATIONAL - DM74ALS244AN Octal 3-STATE Bus Driver
U15- NATIONAL - DM74LS14N Hex Inverter with Schmitt Trigger Inputs
U16- NATIONAL - DM74LS14N Hex Inverter with Schmitt Trigger Inputs
U17- NATIONAL - DM74LS14N Hex Inverter with Schmitt Trigger Inputs
U18- NATIONAL - DM74LS14N Hex Inverter with Schmitt Trigger Inputs
U19- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U20- NATIONAL - DM7406N Hex Inverting Buffer
U21-AMD 26LS33PC QUAD DIFFERENTIAL LINE RECIEVER
U22-AMD 26LS33PC QUAD DIFFERENTIAL LINE RECIEVER
U23- NATIONAL - DM74ALS273N Octal D-Type Edge-Triggered Flip-Flop
U24- NATIONAL - DM74LS14N Hex Inverter with Schmitt Trigger Inputs
U25- BI Technologies - 898-1-R15K Dual In-Line Thick Film Resistor
Network
U26- NATIONAL - DM74ALS244AN Octal 3-STATE Bus Driver
U27- NATIONAL - DM74ALS244AN Octal 3-STATE Bus Driver
U28- NATIONAL - 555CN TIMER

CR- ICL8069DCSQ - LOW VOLTAGE REFERENCE

C1- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C2- DIPPED ELECTROLYTIC TYPE 10 uF
C3- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C4- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C5- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C6- DIPPED ELECTROLYTIC TYPE 10 uF
C7- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C8- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C9- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C10- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C11- DIPPED ELECTROLYTIC TYPE 10 uF
C12- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C13- DIPPED ELECTROLYTIC TYPE 47 uF
C14- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C15- SQUARE FILM TYPE 102K
C16- SQUARE FILM TYPE 102K
C17- SQUARE FILM TYPE 102K
C18- SQUARE FILM TYPE 102K
CAP BRIDGING U21- SQUARE FILM TYPE 102K

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com


I would inspect all visible solder joints, check the CR voltage and
around the 555 and change all the electrolytics.
Record changes and take representative voltages around anything
analogue, if problem recurs then attack something else.
I assume all the TTL is soldered direct to pcb , not socketed, if
socketted then likely suspect there. Any use of vias ?

All solder joints inspected and good. Do the dipped type of
electrolytic caps go bad? I thought they were immune to the problems
that the liquid filled ones have. No sockets. The board is double
sided with all device pins soldered on both sides of the board. So I
guess those are all vias?
Thanks,
Eric

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

  #6   Report Post  
Old March 19th 14, 09:00 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jul 2013
Posts: 75
Default Dirty connector update-more info

In article ,
wrote:

All solder joints inspected and good. Do the dipped type of
electrolytic caps go bad? I thought they were immune to the problems
that the liquid filled ones have.


If those "dipped electrolyics" are the solid-tantalum type, they're
rather notorious for failing "shorted". i think I've also heard of
them failing "open" due to stress cracking.

  #7   Report Post  
Old March 19th 14, 09:31 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,099
Default Dirty connector update-more info

On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 14:19:19 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

wrote:

Thanks so far Cydrome, Matt, and Jon for reading and replying with
suggestions for finding the board problem. Last night I identified
every device on the board and made a list.


OK, not an opto anywhere, so my idea is toast! So, is it clear that
powering off doesn't fix it, but reseating the board DOES, at least
temporarily? If so, that pretty much indicates a connection problem.
Most of this stuff was wave soldered, so it is not real likely there
are bad solder joints on the chip-board connection. What type of
connectors are on the board-backplane connection? If Elco Vari-lock
or similar contact, they need to be squeezed. My old Allen-Bradley 7320
control was all Elco Vari-Lock contacts without the plastic housings
on the board contacts. This allows them to get bent apart when the board
is wiggled out. Elco vari-Lock contacts are hermaphroditic, and sort of
a narrow fork. The close faces of the tines are angled, and wipe against
the other contact, assuming the tines are parallel.

So, I have no idea whether your control uses this type contact, but I
definitely ran into this on that old A-B. Card edge contacts can get dirty
or sprung after many insert/remove cycles.

Jon

It seems like there is a heat problem and some sort of removal and
replace problem too. When the machine is run with the cabinet closed
it alarms out faster than when it is run with the cabinet open. I have
been so busy running the machine and working around this problem that
I may be wrong about removing and replacing. Today I'm a little less
busy and I'm going to try a couple experiments.
Eric

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

  #9   Report Post  
Old March 19th 14, 10:06 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,099
Default Dirty connector update-more info

On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 15:52:48 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

wrote:


It seems like there is a heat problem and some sort of removal and
replace problem too. When the machine is run with the cabinet closed
it alarms out faster than when it is run with the cabinet open. I have
been so busy running the machine and working around this problem that
I may be wrong about removing and replacing. Today I'm a little less
busy and I'm going to try a couple experiments.

You might be able to isolate the fault with freeze-mist or maybe
a jet of compressed air, one chip at a time. Of course, if you
could get enough technical info to know which input on the board
is the oil or air sensor (maybe you can glean this info by
tracing wires on the machine that does have these sensors) then you
can just replace all chips in the signal path through the board.

Ahh, for the days of Allen-Bradley when you got a 3" thick circuit
diagrams manual and a 1" thick theory manual with each CNC control.

Jon

I can get a wiring diagram which I'll download tonight. Maybe that
will help. The control was made by Fadal as far as I know. Some Fadal
machines could also be had with Fanuc or Siemens controls too.
Eric

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

  #10   Report Post  
Old March 20th 14, 01:47 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jan 2013
Posts: 182
Default Dirty connector update-more info

wrote:
FADAL 1040-2A INTERFACE CIRCUIT BOARD DEVICES


All that TTL. We're gonna party like it's 1979!

After seeing this parts list, I'm gonna re-suggest checking the power
supply to this board, probably +5 V DC. If it's at all low or high, you
might look into why that is. (TTL parts draw relatively a lot of
current from the +5 V supply. Some of yours draw less - the 74LSxx and
74ALSxx part numbers - but in general, TTL boards require stout power
supplies.)

Here are some comments on what these chips are *probably* doing. This
may or may not help your problem, though...

U8- LM393P DUAL DIFFERENTIAL COMPARATOR


This probably works with CR to measure some kind of analog signal,
probably produced by a sensor with a variable resistance.

U13- NATIONAL - DM74ALS244AN Octal 3-STATE Bus Driver
U14- NATIONAL - DM74ALS244AN Octal 3-STATE Bus Driver
U26- NATIONAL - DM74ALS244AN Octal 3-STATE Bus Driver
U27- NATIONAL - DM74ALS244AN Octal 3-STATE Bus Driver


These guys might be in charge of talking to the rest of the controls
(the motherboard, other cards, etc).

U21-AMD 26LS33PC QUAD DIFFERENTIAL LINE RECIEVER
U22-AMD 26LS33PC QUAD DIFFERENTIAL LINE RECIEVER


These guys are probably in charge of receiving commands from the main
CPU.

CR- ICL8069DCSQ - LOW VOLTAGE REFERENCE


This should have an output of 1.20 to 1.25 V at 25 C (77 F). If it's
way off from this, you could have trouble. It probably lives pretty
close to U8.

C1- SQUARE FILM TYPE 103K
C2- DIPPED ELECTROLYTIC TYPE 10 uF


The "square film" caps are probably OK. The "dipped electrolytic" are
probably tantalums - they look like a little epoxy blob, often blue or
gold (but can be anything) on the end of two wires. I don't know much
about if these go bad or not; I will defer to others on this one.

CAP BRIDGING U21- SQUARE FILM TYPE 102K


Sometimes this is done because they forgot to design that cap into the
original board. Sometimes it is done to solve a problem that didn't
appear until later. You might make sure that U21 has a cap "tacked on"
to it somewhere - it can be on top of the chip, or on the bottom side
of the circuit board under where the chip is.

Matt Roberds



Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I am a filthy whore with a dirty, dirty mouth....... [email protected] UK diy 5 October 18th 07 04:24 PM
I am a filthy whore with a dirty, dirty mouth....... [email protected] Home Repair 1 October 17th 07 07:33 PM
Review Update: Delta 16" VS Lathe - PM/Jet VFD Info (long) DGG Woodturning 55 October 28th 06 02:11 AM
Review Update: Delta 16" VS Lathe - PM/Jet VFD Info (long) DGG Woodworking 34 October 25th 06 07:58 PM
Update: lathe chuck info mac davis Woodturning 0 December 17th 04 01:06 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:51 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2020 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"

 

Copyright © 2017