I live in a 2-floor house and had FM reception problems using twin lead dipole antennas. Around 10 years ago, I purchased a 2-element, omni antenna (looks like this: http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3740648) and mounted it in the attic at the peak of the roof. I connected it to a 75 Ohm transformer and a 2-way splitter and ran RG-59/U to receivers in the upstairs bedroom and office.

This worked well but it was too difficult to bring the coax downstairs to my living room without going outside so I bought a Terk Pi amplified antenna for my NAD receiver there. That usually gives acceptable results but for some stations the gain or orientation of the Terk Pi must be adjusted, which is inconvenient because it's up on top of the entertainment center cabinet. Now that we're doing some home renovations, a few walls and part of the ceiling are open so this is the perfect time to run coax from the attic to the living room.

1. Do I need to boost the signal at the antenna for a 3-way split? If so, how much gain do I need? Is 8 dB enough?

2. I still have RG-59/U on hand. Is this ok for the new 65' run to the living room or should I use RG-6 instead?

3. If RG-6 is recommended for the new run, should I replace the existing 25' runs of RG-59/U while I'm at it?

4. What about the connectors? I originally used crimp-ons. Should I cut them off and have someone install good compression fittings like the kind technicians now use for cable and satellite TV?

5. Does anything in this antenna system need to be grounded? I see the splitter has a bolt for a ground wire.

At the risk of seeming a shill for Magnum Dynalab, you should get their MD
205 "signal sleuth".

http://www.magnumdynalab.com/md205.htm

It doesn't just boost the signal. It cleans it up. Remember to put ferrite
chokes on the AC power cords of all your FM equipment (and possibly the
audio cables), so the good work done by the MD 205 won't be undone by direct
RF entry.

On Mon, 3 Dec 2012 05:53:34 -0800 (PST), Bob Simon
wrote:

Now that we're doing some home renovations, a few walls and part
of the ceiling are open so this is the perfect time to run coax
from the attic to the living room.

Don't run coax. Run conduit. PEX tubing or whatever is code
acceptable in your area. That way you can replace cables, add cables,
run fiber, run rotator cable, etc. If conduit is not an option, run
every cable type you suspect you might need in the future. Two runs
of RG-6/u at the minimum.

1. Do I need to boost the signal at the antenna for a 3-way split?
If so, how much gain do I need? Is 8 dB enough?

You probably don't need any gain if you're in a strong signal area. A
passive splitter will work just fine. 4 way is more common than 3
way, which is really a pair of two way splitters in series.

If your coax run is more than about 25ft, I suggest an antenna mounted
amplifier. They come in many varieties, but mostly for OTA TV
reception. Many of these have an FM notch filter to ELIMINATE FM
overload of the TV receiver if there is an FM transmitter in close
proximity. Careful what you buy. Most such amps have 20-30dB gain
which can do more damage (due to overload) than good. You may want to
try your antenna with no amplifier first. If the signals are weak,
then add gain.

2. I still have RG-59/U on hand. Is this ok for the new 65' run
to the living room or should I use RG-6 instead?

RG-59/u is usually garbage. Good enough for indoor patch cable use,
but not much else. I strongly suggest RG-6/u with waterproof
compression (not crimp) connectors. You'll also need a compression
tool. I have one of these that works with most connectors:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150947616738
You'll also need a coax stripper:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271014357703
Note that there are different types of RG-6/u which require slightly
different compression connectors. A connector made for RG-59/u will
not work with RG-6/u.

3. If RG-6 is recommended for the new run, should I replace the
existing 25' runs of RG-59/U while I'm at it?

Of course. Coax is cheap. Your time is not.

4. What about the connectors? I originally used crimp-ons.
Should I cut them off and have someone install good compression
fittings like the kind technicians now use for cable and satellite TV?

Crimp type connectors are awful. They usually fall apart, make lousy
ground connections, and in extreme cases, leak RF. Use compression
connectors. Compression connectors are permanent.

To keep water out of the outdoor connectors, wrap them with a layer of
teflon plumbers tape, and then cover that with Scotch 66 electrical
tape. The teflon will cold flow, making a water proof connection. The
electrical tape just holds it in place. Removal is trivial and the
connector looks like new.

5. Does anything in this antenna system need to be grounded? I see
the splitter has a bolt for a ground wire.

I live in central California, where there's little lightning. Few
residential installations are grounded. However, if you live in
lightning country, grounding the mast and any associated devices is
probably a good idea.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 3 Dec 2012 07:18:55 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

At the risk of seeming a shill for Magnum Dynalab, you should get their MD
205 "signal sleuth".

http://www.magnumdynalab.com/md205.htm

I just love audiophile hardware.
This one is only $440. Ouch.

Chuckle:
"signal amplification variable from -10dB thru +30dB (30 times
to gain) to bring weak stations to full quieting* and tame
strong, harsh, local signals"
30dB power gain is 1000 times.

I would love to see the shape factor of their filter that's 400Khz
wide (so that it passes HDRadio signals), yet is -70dB down on the
adjacent channel, which is 0 KHz away. (US FM stations are on 200KHz
channel spacing will allocations on alternating 400KHz slots).
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/KCSM.jpg

It doesn't just boost the signal. It cleans it up.

Not really, but it seems like it would help get rid of overload from
excessively strong nearby TV signals. Just an FM band pass filter
would probably do most of the heavy lifting.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fm+bandpass+filter&tbm=isch

Remember to put ferrite
chokes on the AC power cords of all your FM equipment (and possibly the
audio cables), so the good work done by the MD 205 won't be undone by direct
RF entry.

That does no good with todays plastic case, unshielded receivers. Some
work better with no antenna attached. The FCC Part 15 conducted
radiation filter found the AC power cable usually does a great job of
blocking such RF pickup.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

It doesn't just boost the signal. It cleans it up.

Not really, but it seems like it would help get rid of overload from
excessively strong nearby TV signals. Just an FM band pass filter
would probably do most of the heavy lifting.

I guess it depends on how you define "clean up" -- but it definitely audibly
improves some signals. And this improvement varies with the setting of the
preselector control.

Obviously -- your mileage may vary. I wouldn't recommend the product if it
didn't work for me.


Remember to put ferrite chokes on the AC power cords of all your FM
equipment (and possibly the audio cables), so the good work done by
the MD 205 won't be undone by direct RF entry.

That does no good with todays plastic case, unshielded receivers. Some
work better with no antenna attached. The FCC Part 15 conducted
radiation filter found the AC power cable usually does a great job of
blocking such RF pickup.

Not on the metal-cabineted products I own.

I've never heard of such a filter. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but
I've never heard of it.

Without a line choke on the tuner, the MD 205 simply doesn't work properly.

On 12/03/2012 12:32 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 3 Dec 2012 07:18:55 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
Chuckle:
"signal amplification variable from -10dB thru +30dB (30 times
to gain) to bring weak stations to full quieting* and tame
strong, harsh, local signals"
30dB power gain is 1000 times.

Another "Dilbert" moment - failure to communicate between sales and
engineering departments. (I'm being kind here in this assessment.)
Sincerely,

--
J. B. Wood e-mail:

On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 06:15:54 -0500, J.B. Wood wrote:
On 12/03/2012 12:32 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 3 Dec 2012 07:18:55 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
Chuckle:
"signal amplification variable from -10dB thru +30dB (30 times
to gain) to bring weak stations to full quieting* and tame
strong, harsh, local signals"
30dB power gain is 1000 times.

Another "Dilbert" moment - failure to communicate between sales and
engineering departments. (I'm being kind here in this assessment.)
Sincerely,

They do it with oxygen-free copper. :-)

Jonesy
--
Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux
38.24N 104.55W | @ config.com | Jonesy | OS/2
* Killfiling google & XXXXbanter.com: jonz.net/ng.htm

On Monday, December 3, 2012 11:12:39 AM UTC-6, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
RG-59/u is usually garbage. Good enough for indoor patch cable use,
but not much else. I strongly suggest RG-6/u with waterproof
compression (not crimp) connectors.
(snip)
Note that there are different types of RG-6/u which require slightly
different compression connectors. A connector made for RG-59/u will
not work with RG-6/u.

Yesterday, the electrician replaced my old run of RG-59 with RG-6 cable. The box is labeled: CB1B06DSCR0-05. I didn't realize that my other existing run is already RG-6. The cable is marked with "E83032 F6SSVV". Can all types of RG-6 cable use the same compression connectors? If not, is it sufficient to determine if the outside diameter of the cable is the same?
Bob Simon

On Thu, 6 Dec 2012 06:55:45 -0800 (PST), Bob Simon
wrote:

On Monday, December 3, 2012 11:12:39 AM UTC-6, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
RG-59/u is usually garbage. Good enough for indoor patch cable use,
but not much else. I strongly suggest RG-6/u with waterproof
compression (not crimp) connectors.
(snip)
Note that there are different types of RG-6/u which require slightly
different compression connectors. A connector made for RG-59/u will
not work with RG-6/u.

Yesterday, the electrician replaced my old run of RG-59 with RG-6 cable.
The box is labeled: CB1B06DSCR0-05.

That would be Perfect Vision RG-6/u made for DirecTV. 60% braid over
aluminum foil. Black. I couldn't find any specs on the stuff, but I
probably have some at home.

The cable is marked with "E83032 F6SSVV".

The full name and number is:
MEDIAONE E83032 F6SSVV-CRD CATV
It's made by Comscope for Media One CATV. Quad shielded and very
similar to the Perfect Vision cable. As before, no specs, so I can
determine connector compatibility.

Can all types of RG-6 cable use the same compression connectors?

Both cables are fairly generic and a generic RG-6/u compression
connector will certainly fit. There are some exotic RG-6/u "type" of
cables, which will cause fit problems, but you're unlikely to run into
those. You'll find compression connectors retail at Home Depot or
online. Just make sure you get those for RG-6/u and *NOT* for
RG-59/u.

There are major differences in the size and construction of the
connectors, which causes problems getting them to fit in the
compression tools. The tool I previously mentioned seems to work with
everything I've blundered across. There are better and cheaper tools,
but you run into the risk of buying a connector and not having a
suitable tool. There's no easy way to do this without the compression
tool, so make sure that they match.

If not, is it sufficient to determine if the outside diameter
of the cable is the same?

No. The critical dimension is the diameter of the insulating
dielectric surrounding the center conductor.

Bob Simon
--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 6 Dec 2012 06:55:45 -0800 (PST), Bob Simon
wrote:

On Monday, December 3, 2012 11:12:39 AM UTC-6, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
RG-59/u is usually garbage. Good enough for indoor patch cable use,
but not much else. I strongly suggest RG-6/u with waterproof
compression (not crimp) connectors.
(snip)
Note that there are different types of RG-6/u which require slightly
different compression connectors. A connector made for RG-59/u will
not work with RG-6/u.

Yesterday, the electrician replaced my old run of RG-59 with RG-6 cable.
The box is labeled: CB1B06DSCR0-05.

That would be Perfect Vision RG-6/u made for DirecTV. 60% braid over
aluminum foil. Black. I couldn't find any specs on the stuff, but I
probably have some at home.

The cable is marked with "E83032 F6SSVV".

The full name and number is:
MEDIAONE E83032 F6SSVV-CRD CATV
It's made by Comscope for Media One CATV. Quad shielded and very
similar to the Perfect Vision cable. As before, no specs, so I can
determine connector compatibility.

Can all types of RG-6 cable use the same compression connectors?

Both cables are fairly generic and a generic RG-6/u compression
connector will certainly fit. There are some exotic RG-6/u "type" of
cables, which will cause fit problems, but you're unlikely to run into
those. You'll find compression connectors retail at Home Depot or
online. Just make sure you get those for RG-6/u and *NOT* for
RG-59/u.


Quad shield requires a larger outer diameter than standard RG/6. The
center is the same size, but the extra layer of braid & the second foil
makes for a larger OD. I've seen people peel back the two outer shield
layers to use regular connectors, or fold all four back on themselves
without the jacket. Sloppy, can pull out, or flexing will break the
shield.


There are major differences in the size and construction of the
connectors, which causes problems getting them to fit in the
compression tools. The tool I previously mentioned seems to work with
everything I've blundered across. There are better and cheaper tools,
but you run into the risk of buying a connector and not having a
suitable tool. There's no easy way to do this without the compression
tool, so make sure that they match.

If not, is it sufficient to determine if the outside diameter
of the cable is the same?

No. The critical dimension is the diameter of the insulating
dielectric surrounding the center conductor.

Bob Simon
--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 09:11:42 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Yesterday, the electrician replaced my old run of RG-59 with RG-6 cable.
The box is labeled: CB1B06DSCR0-05.

That would be Perfect Vision RG-6/u made for DirecTV. 60% braid over
aluminum foil. Black. I couldn't find any specs on the stuff, but I
probably have some at home.

I still can't find any specs on that cable but did find a sample. It's
double shielded RG-6/u and not quad shielded.

The cable is marked with "E83032 F6SSVV".

The full name and number is:
MEDIAONE E83032 F6SSVV-CRD CATV
It's made by Comscope for Media One CATV.

http://www.commscope.com/catalog/broadband/product_details.aspx?id=46923
This one is quad shielded. Therefore, these are not identical coax
cables and will need different connector types.

Sorry about the muddle.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 14:22:27 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Quad shield requires a larger outer diameter than standard RG/6. The
center is the same size, but the extra layer of braid & the second foil
makes for a larger OD. I've seen people peel back the two outer shield
layers to use regular connectors, or fold all four back on themselves
without the jacket. Sloppy, can pull out, or flexing will break the
shield.

That's correct. Note that I also screwed up in decoding the coax
cable part numbers. One is double shielded, the other is quad
shielded.

Another way to kludge it is to buy all quad shielded connectors. When
dealing with the smaller diameter double shielded cable, the ground
connection is made with the inner shield pair. Just slip a piece of
shrink tube over the outer jacket and compress. It actually works
nicely (if the shrink tube is at least 1" long), looks nice, and has
survived a unofficial pull test. Since I obtained two Kroy "Tube
Marker" shrink tube printers, I've been doing this fairly often.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

The electrician had to work another job this morning so the contractor brought over his connectors and tools. (The box of cable was already here.) The new 65' run from the antenna in the attic allows my receiver to play even marginal stations without pressing the mono button so I'm happy to report that this was a complete success. No need for an amp at the antenna.

Since I've never pressed on a compression connector before, I'd like to know if I'm doing this optimally. First, I adjusted the stripper to leave all the braided shield on the inside cut while going almost all the way to the core for the outside cut. Then I folded the braid back over the jacket while leaving the foil covering the insulator and pushed on the connector until the foam was even with the inside of the connector. Finally, I inserted the core and connector into the handle of the tool, made sure it was aligned, and squeezed.

For the quad-shield RG-6, I left only the inside foil on the foam and folded the rest over the jacket. It was a lot harder to push the connector on the cable so I used a twisting motion.

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 10:26:09 -0800 (PST), Bob Simon
wrote:

I'm happy to report that this was a complete success. No need for
an amp at the antenna.

Very good. Congrats.

Since I've never pressed on a compression connector before, I'd like
to know if I'm doing this optimally.

Perhaps reading the instructions or watching a video might be useful.
Ignore anything that looks like a crimp type connector. Your
description sounds correct, but I can't tell if you're using the
correct connector, or doing something else that's odd. Make sure you
use the proper stripper device to get the dimensions correct:
http://www-public.tnb.com/shared/inst/ta02455-tb2.pdf
http://www-public.tnb.com/shared/inst/ta03532-tb2.pdf
http://wiki.hometech.com/tiki-index.php?page=How+To+Terminate+Coaxial+Cable
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rg6u+compression+connector

I skimmed some of the videos and found a few discrepencies.
- You do NOT want to peel the foil off the dielectric.
- You do want to wrap the wire braid back over the outer jacket.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Friday, December 7, 2012 7:08:02 PM UTC-6, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
- You do NOT want to peel the foil off the dielectric.
- You do want to wrap the wire braid back over the outer jacket.

Those were the two main points I was not sure of. Thanks very much for all the help and advice.
Bob