Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:46:03 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

The last time I slept in a 'tent' was in the early '70s in Alaska.
Cold weather survival training.

Camping these days for me is done in 2-3 star hotels (i.e. Motel 6). I
can't afford 5 star.

I did something like that, except in the desert. I wasn't paying
attention, forgot to do a few things, and ended up dehydrated, with a
major sunburn, and infested with sand fleas.

Have you ever built a fire with frozen wood, or cut down small,
ice covered trees without an axe?

Not frozen, but certainly wet wood. I've been heating my house during
the winter with firewood for 39 years. At one point, I was cursed
with some soaking wet green firewood. Even mixed with dry wood it
didn't burn very well. It was better than freezing, so I eventually
learned how to start a fire with the stuff with a propane torch. I
also used an axe, hatchet, chain saw, bow saw, and table saw to
prepare the logs and kindling.

I've converted small trees into kindling by driving over them with a
bulldozer, but I suspect that's not what you were doing. How did you
prepare firewood from iced over trees? Cable saw? Swiss army knife?
Explosives? I would have just scrounged for dead fall branches on the
ground and left the wet live trees alone.


Anything already on the ground was under ice, and we were in fairly
heavy Alaskan forest on an Army base. Since it was survival training,
you weren't worried about a couple dozen to a hundred small trees when
there were 20+ 'victims' trying to not only stay alive, but get back to
main base without losing body parts.

When you needed firewood you picked a pine tree 4 - 6" in diameter,
turned your back to it and kicked it with the bottom of your heavy
arctic boot. The pine trees grew fast, and only on one side due to the
high winds. These were trees that would have been too bad for 'Charlie
Brown' to take home. ;-) The tree trunk would snap off about six inches
above ground. Then you would drag the entire tree to the fire and toss
it in. The flames were going about 60' into the air, but you could
barely feel the heat, six feet from the fire. Because of the low
temperature, the fire could burn out completely in minutes to the point
that you couldn't find a warm coal in the ashes. You could die in under
two minutes from exposure to the cold air and 0% humidity. What was
real fun was that you had to remove your arctic boots and put them in
your sleeping bag when you went to bed. If you didn't take them off, you
would lose the skin on your feet to blisters, and if you didn't put them
in the sleeping bag with you, you could lose your feet to frostbite when
you put them back on.


BTW, the remaining stump looked like it had been polished when the
tree broke off.

Jim Yanik wrote:

When I was a kid,I read an old Argosy magazine(outdoorsman stuff) about how
the author would camp in wintertime in his shirtsleeves,no special cold
weather gear. He'd make a bed out of pine branches stripped from trees and
lay on that,it insulated him from the cold ground. So after Xmas,I got a
couple of discarded Xmas trees,stripped them,made a bed several inches
thick,and camped out in the backyard. It worked. All I had was a thin
sleeping bag,and a canvas leanto for cover. Wasn't cold at all,despite a
foot of snow in the yard.

BTW,pine cones light pretty easily,they're full of resins and turps,good
for starting fires. They burn hot.


The pine cones were all gone by the time they took us out for
survival training. They had fallen months before the early December
class at Ft. Greely. The trees had very few needles, due to the high
winds, and animals eating any they could reach. These trees were
nothing to write home about. They were mostly iced over trunks and some
branches.

Jamie wrote:

David WE Roberts wrote:


"D. T. Green" wrote in message
...

On just buying a 800 watt 'two' stroke petrol generator from Aldi, we
have heard from someone who says that he has got one; and that his is
running very roughly, and is really noisy.

Also it says in the instructions that it is *not* suitable for
connecting to televisions or other sensitive electronic equipment.

Has anybody any experience with one of these very cheap generators ?
(Only £59 ).

Also saying they are not suitable for sensitive electronic equipment;
would that just be the manufacturers covering themselves? Would
buying something like a *surge- protector* make it possible to use the
generator with a portable television?



Some of the extra money paind for more expensive generators goes towards
the extra electronics which ensure a stable a/c output similar to mains
current. This is generaly described as an inverter system

Believe the instructions.
It is not suitable.

There are warnings against these very cheap generators on caravan and
mobile home discussion fora, as they can damage the internal electrics
of the more sophisticated systems.

Cheers

Dave R
If you want my honest opinion, I wouldn't use any crap devices that
couldn't handle a noisy or shaky power line.. Do you really think the
commercial power is a 100% ?

If the device can't handle a little frequency and voltage variation
with a little noise on it, then the device was designed as a cheap, get
it out the door garbage money maker.

P.S.

I have the 2000 Watt Peak generator that Aldi's has or did have. Yes
, it is a little noisy however, frequency only varies +/- 3 Hz from what
I could see and voltage was with in reason under load changes..

The wave form on it looked almost as good as my 5000 watt Honda
generator..

So putting that into prospective, I guess if you think the Aldi
generate is crap, maybe I shouldn't use my Honda either!


No, you need a bigger one to electrocute yourself, Maynard. Those
small generators put out a crap waveform, and are intended for resistive
loads. That Honda has a cleaner output but nothing like the AC mains
used to, before SMPS became common.

Arfa Daily wrote

Wrong when the only downside of that generator is that
it may well not control the voltage and frequency of what
it generates very accurately. The SMPS won't give a damn.

You don't know that.

Yes I do.

For all you know, the output might be covered in crap like ignition noise.

And a SMPS won't give a damn.

In which case, a lot of switchers will fail sooner or later.

Fantasy.

I don't know what your background is

Leaves yours for dead.

- I've never seen you on S.E.R. before so I guess you're here as a result
of the cross-posting. For all I know, you might be the best SMPS designer
in the world, and your efforts might be bomb-proof. But for every one of
you, there are a thousand Chinese sticking their ****-street designs in
everything from light bulbs to vacuum cleaners. I see this crap every day
(as well as some good ones) and many of the designs do, as I said, work by
the skin of their teeth. If you throw mains at them that's covered in
spikes and other garbage, they *will* fail.

Fantasy.

It's not at all rare to see items such as TV sets that have been used on
the end of cheap inverters and generators, with either blown power
supplies, or corrupted EEPROMs.

Its nothing like as common as you originally claimed.

I would also point out that many cheap Chinese designs without a PFC front
end rated to 260 volts AC, have a single main filter cap rated at 400 v.
Even with mains at the high end of 'normal', that doesn't allow a lot of
overhead. If the output of this generator is poorly regulated, the input
voltage to the power supply could easily take this cap close to its
limits.

But it doesn't just curl up and die when that happens.

In which case such a supply may well 'give a damn'.

Unlikely.

Jim Yanik wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote in
:

On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 09:39:16 -0500, Jim Yanik
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote in
:
I guess going camping with a TV is ok, as long as one leaves the
screaming kids, barking dogs, ATV's, motorcycles, and boom box at
home.

in today's digital ATSC TV world(USA),reception may not be possible
out in the boonies. better to buy a portable DVD player with LCD
screen.

You're behind the times a little. These daze, campers have satellite
receivers and dishes. OTA TV reception in the middle of nowhere tends
to be lousy.

yeah,I've seen RVs with satellite dishes...

The main purpose of the generator is not to run the TV. It's to keep
the 12V fridge alive. The generator usually has a 12v charger output,
which keeps the battery up, which runs the 12v fridge. For those with
really cheap generators, add an external battery charger. Few campers
have 12v chargers for their laptops, so there's another reason to run
the generator. Solar panels as chargers are also common, but are
rarely large enough to replace a generator.

It's been a very long time since I've gone tent camping. When I last
did that, we went past a "wilderness" trailer camp, which is
distinguished from a regular trailer camp site by the lack of hookups.
We could hear the multiple generators running for miles away. As we
approached the trailer camp site, we could hear a cacophany of full
blast television audio from some campers. We begged some supplies,
loaded up with drinkable water, and got as far away from that
nightmare as possible, which was not a trivial exercise in the dark.

Leave the generator and TV at home.


will an 800 WATT generator keep a fridge going?
an 800 watt generator might not run the TV and the satellite
receiver[humor]....considering that 800 watts is maximum output(surge?),and
you can realistically expect only 400 watts from it,continuous.

I agree that TV,stereo,etc,is inappropriate for camping.
Camping is about ESCAPING all that stuff,enjoying nature,bugs and all.
Laptops on a camping trip? sheesh,why not just pitch a tent in your
backyard?
then you can run an extension cord from your house to run all your stuff.

My 90's fridge only draws 200 watts, but 1500 watts in defrost. My little
generator will run my 5k btu air conditioner, but it running the generator
hard and uses a lot of gas, small tank.

Greg

On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:27:17 -0500, Jim Yanik
wrote:

will an 800 WATT generator keep a fridge going?

Yes. Most small camper refrigerators draw about 3A max at 12V. 36VA
is not going to cause much trouble for an alleged 800 watt generator.

However, there's a potential catch. Most generators will not run,
much less start, with the full rated load. The operating power is
usually somewhat less than the advertised output power. In addition,
some generators have two phase outputs. The rated power is for the
sum of the two phases power. That means each 117VAC load can only be
1/2 the advertised power. Caveat Emptor.

an 800 watt generator might not run the TV and the satellite
receiver[humor]....considering that 800 watts is maximum output(surge?),and
you can realistically expect only 400 watts from it,continuous.

For how long? The data sheets I've seen on real generators (i.e.
Honda) include derating specs at different loads. Typically, you can
run it at half power forever.

Incidentally, for multi-fuel generators, the rated spec is usually for
gasoline. However, if you're running propane or natural gas, the max
output is about 80% of the gasoline rating. Caveat Emptor 2.0.

I agree that TV,stereo,etc,is inappropriate for camping.
Camping is about ESCAPING all that stuff,enjoying nature,bugs and all.
Laptops on a camping trip?

Yep. I'm also addicted. I've tried twice to spend a weekend at home
without touching a computah or watching TV. Each time, I lasted about
8 hours. However, I do have a handy getaway. I live in a forest.
Behind my house is Fall Creek State Park, inhabited only by drug
growers, illegal campers, nosey critters, and various bugs that bite.
If I get fed up with civilization, I grab my pack and supplies, and
head for the hills. I've spent a few days on a mountain top watching
the clouds drift by. My usual incentive to return is running out of
potable water.

sheesh,why not just pitch a tent in your
backyard?

I did that when I was a kid. I went urban camping in the back yard on
the lawn. It was required for some obscure class I was taking. I
didn't get any sleep from the strange noises. Sneaking inside for a
bathroom visit was considered acceptable. Meals were catered by my
mother. Not much of a wilderness experience, but you have to start
somewhere.

then you can run an extension cord from your house to run all your stuff.

Only if the cord is approved for indoor/outdoor use. Check the label.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Jul 11, 2:37*am, "D. T. Green" wrote:
On just buying a 800 watt 'two' stroke petrol generator from Aldi, we have
heard from someone who says that he has got one; and that his is running
very roughly, and is really noisy.

Also it says in the instructions that it is *not* suitable for connecting to
televisions or other sensitive electronic equipment.

Has anybody any experience with one of these very cheap generators ? (Only
59 ).

Also saying they are not suitable for sensitive electronic equipment; would
that just be the manufacturers covering themselves? *Would buying something
like a *surge- protector* make it possible to use the generator with a
portable television?

Maybe. A power line surge proved to be too much for the surge
protector my old Toshiba CRT TV was plugged into.

Could it be a private labelling of this Einhell generator? I found a
polyglot owners manual for it.

http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/da...n_fr_cs_sk.pdf

On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:54:09 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote
Arfa Daily wrote

I merely stated that if you abuse them, they have
a predisposition towards catastrophic failure (...)

Switchers fail gracefully. The output voltage goes to zero.

Not always.

(...)

I've read a fair quantity of your messages on this topic. All of them
are much like this one. It states your opinion, position, or
pontification. There is no corroborating information, no examples,
and no useful information. While you are certainly entitled to an
opinion, I believe that you will be more effective if you kindly
explain your position.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Jeff Liebermann wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Jeff Liebermann wrote
Arfa Daily wrote

I merely stated that if you abuse them, they have
a predisposition towards catastrophic failure (...)

Switchers fail gracefully. The output voltage goes to zero.

Not always.

I've read a fair quantity of your messages on this topic.

I've read all of yours.

All of them are much like this one. It states your opinion, position,
or pontification. There is no corroborating information, no examples,

Yours in spades.

and no useful information.

Everyone can see for themselves that that is a lie.

While you are certainly entitled to an opinion,

And you aren't, particularly with that
absolute claim you made at the top.

I believe that you will be more effective if you kindly explain your
position.

I did that with the basics on whether SMPSs give a damn
about the voltage within limits and the frequency in spades.

Repeating again, I don't see any evidence of an overvoltage problem in
the multitude of switchers that cross my bench.

I like switchers.

** But you are an utter ass.

Of course. But I'm still right.


--
Jeff Liebermann


It is very common for the cheapo Chinese switchers used in items like DVD
players, to fail in this way. They are extremely susceptible to secondary
side filter cap failure - typically bulging and high ESR. This usually
results in the rail voltage dropping. Most of these supplies take their
control loop reference from just one of the output rails, and if it happens
to be the one that's got the bad cap on - often the case - then the supply
tries to crank it back up to the correct level, which results in all the
other rails going way up. This often results in destruction of LSIs
elsewhere in the item.

As a matter of interest, better quality multi-rail switchers used in some TV
sets, do have a form of 'crowbar' in that all of the rails are monitored for
output voltage, and if any become excessive, they trip a shutdown circuit on
the main supply control IC. The Vestel 17PWxx series that were used in a
number of manufacturer's TVs, are a good example of such.

Arfa

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote

Wrong when the only downside of that generator is that
it may well not control the voltage and frequency of what
it generates very accurately. The SMPS won't give a damn.

You don't know that.

Yes I do.

For all you know, the output might be covered in crap like ignition
noise.

And a SMPS won't give a damn.

In which case, a lot of switchers will fail sooner or later.

Fantasy.

I don't know what your background is

Leaves yours for dead.

- I've never seen you on S.E.R. before so I guess you're here as a result
of the cross-posting. For all I know, you might be the best SMPS designer
in the world, and your efforts might be bomb-proof. But for every one of
you, there are a thousand Chinese sticking their ****-street designs in
everything from light bulbs to vacuum cleaners. I see this crap every day
(as well as some good ones) and many of the designs do, as I said, work
by the skin of their teeth. If you throw mains at them that's covered in
spikes and other garbage, they *will* fail.

Fantasy.

It's not at all rare to see items such as TV sets that have been used on
the end of cheap inverters and generators, with either blown power
supplies, or corrupted EEPROMs.

Its nothing like as common as you originally claimed.

I would also point out that many cheap Chinese designs without a PFC
front end rated to 260 volts AC, have a single main filter cap rated at
400 v. Even with mains at the high end of 'normal', that doesn't allow a
lot of overhead. If the output of this generator is poorly regulated, the
input voltage to the power supply could easily take this cap close to its
limits.

But it doesn't just curl up and die when that happens.

In which case such a supply may well 'give a damn'.

Unlikely.



OK. You can shut up and **** off now. I've lost all interest in you and
anything you have to say. Clearly, you are one of those know-it-all
dickheads that pop up on usenet from time to time.

Feel free to pop back for another conversation some time, though.

After you've learnt to spell would be good ...

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote

Repeating again, I don't see any evidence of an overvoltage problem in
the multitude of switchers that cross my bench.

I like switchers.

But you are an utter ass.

Of course. But I'm still right.

It is very common for the cheapo Chinese switchers used in items like DVD
players, to fail in this way.

You have no idea that they did fail by overvoltage.

They are extremely susceptible to secondary side filter cap failure -
typically bulging and high ESR.

Doesn't mean that they failed by overvoltage, just bad caps.

This usually results in the rail voltage dropping. Most of these supplies
take their control loop reference from just one of the output rails, and
if it happens to be the one that's got the bad cap on - often the case

Another sweeping statement that can't be substantiated.

- then the supply tries to crank it back up to the correct level, which
results in all the other rails going way up. This often results in
destruction of LSIs elsewhere in the item.

Not even possible when it's the rail that
powers the LSIs that has the bad cap.

As a matter of interest, better quality multi-rail switchers used in some
TV sets, do have a form of 'crowbar' in that all of the rails are
monitored for output voltage, and if any become excessive, they trip a
shutdown circuit on the main supply control IC.

That's not a crowbar. A crowbar shorts out the rail like a real crowbar
would do.

The Vestel 17PWxx series that were used in a number of manufacturer's TVs,
are a good example of such.

But its not a crowbar.

Arfa Daily wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Arfa Daily wrote

Wrong when the only downside of that generator is that
it may well not control the voltage and frequency of what
it generates very accurately. The SMPS won't give a damn.

You don't know that.

Yes I do.

For all you know, the output might be covered in crap like ignition
noise.

And a SMPS won't give a damn.

In which case, a lot of switchers will fail sooner or later.

Fantasy.

I don't know what your background is

Leaves yours for dead.

- I've never seen you on S.E.R. before so I guess you're here as a
result of the cross-posting. For all I know, you might be the best SMPS
designer in the world, and your efforts might be bomb-proof. But for
every one of you, there are a thousand Chinese sticking their
****-street designs in everything from light bulbs to vacuum cleaners. I
see this crap every day (as well as some good ones) and many of the
designs do, as I said, work by the skin of their teeth. If you throw
mains at them that's covered in spikes and other garbage, they *will*
fail.

Fantasy.

It's not at all rare to see items such as TV sets that have been used on
the end of cheap inverters and generators, with either blown power
supplies, or corrupted EEPROMs.

Its nothing like as common as you originally claimed.

I would also point out that many cheap Chinese designs without a PFC
front end rated to 260 volts AC, have a single main filter cap rated at
400 v. Even with mains at the high end of 'normal', that doesn't allow a
lot of overhead. If the output of this generator is poorly regulated,
the input voltage to the power supply could easily take this cap close
to its limits.

But it doesn't just curl up and die when that happens.

In which case such a supply may well 'give a damn'.

Unlikely.

OK. You can shut up and **** off now.

You can go and **** yourself.

I've lost all interest in you and anything you have to say.

Yeah, fools like you hate it when you
nose is rubbed in your terminal stupiditys.

reams of your puerile attempts at insults any 2 year
old could leave for dead flushed where they belong

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote

Repeating again, I don't see any evidence of an overvoltage problem in
the multitude of switchers that cross my bench.

I like switchers.

But you are an utter ass.

Of course. But I'm still right.

It is very common for the cheapo Chinese switchers used in items like DVD
players, to fail in this way.

You have no idea that they did fail by overvoltage.



You don't know what the **** you are talking about you stupid arsewipe.



They are extremely susceptible to secondary side filter cap failure -
typically bulging and high ESR.

Doesn't mean that they failed by overvoltage, just bad caps.


Can't read either, can you ?



This usually results in the rail voltage dropping. Most of these supplies
take their control loop reference from just one of the output rails, and
if it happens to be the one that's got the bad cap on - often the case

Another sweeping statement that can't be substantiated.


What the **** would you know about it you half witted plank ? How many do
you repair. Oh yes, I forgot, you are an unemployed and unemployable fool



- then the supply tries to crank it back up to the correct level, which
results in all the other rails going way up. This often results in
destruction of LSIs elsewhere in the item.

Not even possible when it's the rail that
powers the LSIs that has the bad cap.



Again, you are a total ****wit who clearly understands nothing about the
realities of electronic service




As a matter of interest, better quality multi-rail switchers used in some
TV sets, do have a form of 'crowbar' in that all of the rails are
monitored for output voltage, and if any become excessive, they trip a
shutdown circuit on the main supply control IC.

That's not a crowbar. A crowbar shorts out the rail like a real crowbar
would do.


Stupid little man. Do you not understand the function of single inverted
commas ? No, of course you don't, because you're fundamentally as thick as
kangaroo ****




The Vestel 17PWxx series that were used in a number of manufacturer's
TVs, are a good example of such.

But its not a crowbar.




You are a dopey **** who cannot even read properly. Now **** off back under
your antipodean stone

Arfa

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Arfa Daily wrote

Wrong when the only downside of that generator is that
it may well not control the voltage and frequency of what
it generates very accurately. The SMPS won't give a damn.

You don't know that.

Yes I do.

For all you know, the output might be covered in crap like ignition
noise.

And a SMPS won't give a damn.

In which case, a lot of switchers will fail sooner or later.

Fantasy.

I don't know what your background is

Leaves yours for dead.

- I've never seen you on S.E.R. before so I guess you're here as a
result of the cross-posting. For all I know, you might be the best SMPS
designer in the world, and your efforts might be bomb-proof. But for
every one of you, there are a thousand Chinese sticking their
****-street designs in everything from light bulbs to vacuum cleaners.
I see this crap every day (as well as some good ones) and many of the
designs do, as I said, work by the skin of their teeth. If you throw
mains at them that's covered in spikes and other garbage, they *will*
fail.

Fantasy.

It's not at all rare to see items such as TV sets that have been used
on the end of cheap inverters and generators, with either blown power
supplies, or corrupted EEPROMs.

Its nothing like as common as you originally claimed.

I would also point out that many cheap Chinese designs without a PFC
front end rated to 260 volts AC, have a single main filter cap rated at
400 v. Even with mains at the high end of 'normal', that doesn't allow
a lot of overhead. If the output of this generator is poorly regulated,
the input voltage to the power supply could easily take this cap close
to its limits.

But it doesn't just curl up and die when that happens.

In which case such a supply may well 'give a damn'.

Unlikely.

OK. You can shut up and **** off now.

You can go and **** yourself.

I've lost all interest in you and anything you have to say.

Yeah, fools like you hate it when you
nose is rubbed in your terminal stupiditys.

reams of your puerile attempts at insults any 2 year
old could leave for dead flushed where they belong



Sad, sad little **** ...

Arfa

Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind
Arfa Daily desperately attempted
to bull**** and insult its way out of its predicament and fooled
absolutely no one at all, as always.

Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind
Arfa Daily desperately attempted
to bull**** and insult its way out of its predicament and fooled
absolutely no one at all, as always.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 10:19:01 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

I believe that you will be more effective if you kindly explain your
position.

I did that with the basics on whether SMPSs give a damn
about the voltage within limits and the frequency in spades.

Yep. Too bad it was incomplete. Generators have an irritating habit
of producing distorted waveforms when loaded unevenly between phases.
This is fairly common with generators that have two phases, 180
degrees apart, for outputs. Load one at 400VA and look at the
waveform. It's fairly ugly.

The problem is that all switching supplies that actually comply with
some governments conducted radiation standard has a 50/60 Hz low pass
filter on the AC input. That's great for keeping the high frequency
hash from radiating out the power line, but not so great when
presented with an input waveform full of harmonics. It's not too
horrible, but it is a consideration. For example, if the input to the
switcher were a square wave, 1/3 of the power would be in the
harmonics. That power has to go somewhere. Some is reflected, but
most of it is dissipated in the input filter. At 400 VA, that's about
133 watts of smog.

With an unbalance load, most generators will have up to 5% of the
power in harmonics. It's worse for small generators because the cores
like to saturate at rated power output. At 400 VA (one phase), that's
about 20 watts dissipated. Some switchers can handle it, others
prefer to blow the input fuse, if there is an input fuse or breaker.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Jeff Liebermann wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Jeff Liebermann wrote

I believe that you will be more effective if you kindly explain your
position.

I did that with the basics on whether SMPSs give a damn
about the voltage within limits and the frequency in spades.

Yep. Too bad it was incomplete.

Just like yours on how SMPSs fail was.

Generators have an irritating habit of producing distorted
waveforms when loaded unevenly between phases.

Irrelevant to the generator being discussed which can't do that.

This is fairly common with generators that have
two phases, 180 degrees apart, for outputs.

But the generator being discussed doesn't.

Load one at 400VA and look at the waveform. It's fairly ugly.

And you don't get that with the generator being discussed.

The problem is that all switching supplies that actually comply
with some governments conducted radiation standard has a
50/60 Hz low pass filter on the AC input. That's great for keeping
the high frequency hash from radiating out the power line, but not
so great when presented with an input waveform full of harmonics.

You don't get that with the generator being discussed.

It's not too horrible, but it is a consideration.

Not with the generator being discussed it isnt.

For example, if the input to the switcher were a square wave,

It isnt with the generator being discussed.

1/3 of the power would be in the harmonics.

It isnt with the generator being discussed.

That power has to go somewhere.

Not with the generator being discussed it doesn't.

Some is reflected, but most of it
is dissipated in the input filter.

Not with the generator being discussed it isnt.

At 400 VA, that's about 133 watts of smog.

Not with the generator being discussed it isnt.

With an unbalance load,

Can't happen with the generator being discussed.

most generators will have up to 5% of the power in harmonics.

Not with the generator being discussed it doesn't.

It's worse for small generators because the cores
like to saturate at rated power output. At 400 VA
(one phase), that's about 20 watts dissipated.

Not with the generator being discussed it isnt.

Some switchers can handle it, others prefer to blow
the input fuse, if there is an input fuse or breaker.

Doesn't happen with the generator being
discussed driving the TV being discussed.

Arfa Daily wrote:

Rod Speed wrote:

You have no idea that they did fail by overvoltage.

You don't know what the **** you are talking about you stupid arsewipe.


Don't waste your time with this troll.

https://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=active&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=%22rod+speed%22+troll&oq=%22rod+sp eed%22+troll&gs_l=serp.3..0i30j0i8i30.7123.8598.0. 11649.2.2.0.0.0.0.92.162.2.2.0...0.0...1c.Us4JMvoB RrQ

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 12:08:36 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Load one at 400VA and look at the waveform. It's fairly ugly.

And you don't get that with the generator being discussed.

An unbalanced load isn't required, which only creates even order
(asymmetric) distortion. A single phase generator will happily create
odd order (symmetrical) distortion without an unbalanced generator
load. For example:
http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Generators_UPSs_match_or_bridge_to_nowhere-article-fapo_Falcon_mar2009-html.aspx
Scroll down to the oscilloscope photograph. Note the noise and
distortion. This is fairly typical of cheapo small geneators with
mechanical regulators. I've seen worse.

Speaking of worse, not the oscilloscope photos:
http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html
http://www.jkovach.net/projects/powerquality/
http://www.bwpowertools.com/channels/246_v.aspx

It's this garbage waveform that causes switching power supplies to
complain and UPS power supplies to refuse to run on generator power.

Incidentally, if you plan to look at the waveforms produced by a
gasoline generator with an oscillosope, use two scope probes and
differential inputs. One probe connects to each side of the power
line. The two probe grounds go to the generator frame ground. The
scope input selector is set to A-B. That will remove any common mode
noise on the display, and provide some protection against accidentally
getting the oscilloscope case at line potential.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 13/07/2012 02:23, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote

Repeating again, I don't see any evidence of an overvoltage problem
in the multitude of switchers that cross my bench.

I like switchers.

But you are an utter ass.

Of course. But I'm still right.

It is very common for the cheapo Chinese switchers used in items like
DVD players, to fail in this way.

You have no idea that they did fail by overvoltage.



You don't know what the **** you are talking about you stupid arsewipe.

Its wodney, you know that is always his starting point!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Jeff Liebermann wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Load one at 400VA and look at the waveform. It's fairly ugly.

And you don't get that with the generator being discussed.

An unbalanced load isn't required, which only creates
even order (asymmetric) distortion. A single phase
generator will happily create odd order (symmetrical)
distortion without an unbalanced generator load.

But you don't get anything like the amount of distortion
you were going on about, so it isnt a problem with an SMPS
being powered from that particular generator being discussed.

For example:
http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Generators_UPSs_match_or_bridge_to_nowhere-article-fapo_Falcon_mar2009-html.aspx
Scroll down to the oscilloscope photograph. Note the noise and
distortion.

No SMPS will have a problem with that.

This is fairly typical of cheapo small geneators
with mechanical regulators. I've seen worse.

You don't know that the generator
being discussed is anything like that.

Speaking of worse, not the oscilloscope photos:
http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html
http://www.jkovach.net/projects/powerquality/
http://www.bwpowertools.com/channels/246_v.aspx

It's this garbage waveform that causes switching power supplies to
complain

You don't know that the generator being discussed will produce that result.

and UPS power supplies to refuse to run on generator power.

One of those wasn't even being discussed.

Incidentally, if you plan to look at the waveforms produced by a
gasoline generator with an oscillosope, use two scope probes and
differential inputs. One probe connects to each side of the power
line. The two probe grounds go to the generator frame ground.
The scope input selector is set to A-B. That will remove any common
mode noise on the display, and provide some protection against
accidentally getting the oscilloscope case at line potential.

No news to me.

Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
"Rod Speed" wrote:

[not much]

Why are your posts so content-free?

empty vessels....

--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

gregz wrote in

rg:

Jim Yanik wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote in
:

On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 09:39:16 -0500, Jim Yanik
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote in
:
I guess going camping with a TV is ok, as long as one leaves the
screaming kids, barking dogs, ATV's, motorcycles, and boom box at
home.

in today's digital ATSC TV world(USA),reception may not be possible
out in the boonies. better to buy a portable DVD player with LCD
screen.

You're behind the times a little. These daze, campers have
satellite receivers and dishes. OTA TV reception in the middle of
nowhere tends to be lousy.

yeah,I've seen RVs with satellite dishes...

The main purpose of the generator is not to run the TV. It's to
keep the 12V fridge alive. The generator usually has a 12v charger
output, which keeps the battery up, which runs the 12v fridge. For
those with really cheap generators, add an external battery charger.
Few campers have 12v chargers for their laptops, so there's another
reason to run the generator. Solar panels as chargers are also
common, but are rarely large enough to replace a generator.

It's been a very long time since I've gone tent camping. When I
last did that, we went past a "wilderness" trailer camp, which is
distinguished from a regular trailer camp site by the lack of
hookups. We could hear the multiple generators running for miles
away. As we approached the trailer camp site, we could hear a
cacophany of full blast television audio from some campers. We
begged some supplies, loaded up with drinkable water, and got as far
away from that nightmare as possible, which was not a trivial
exercise in the dark.

Leave the generator and TV at home.


will an 800 WATT generator keep a fridge going?
an 800 watt generator might not run the TV and the satellite
receiver[humor]....considering that 800 watts is maximum
output(surge?),and you can realistically expect only 400 watts from
it,continuous.

I agree that TV,stereo,etc,is inappropriate for camping.
Camping is about ESCAPING all that stuff,enjoying nature,bugs and
all. Laptops on a camping trip? sheesh,why not just pitch a tent in
your backyard?
then you can run an extension cord from your house to run all your
stuff.

My 90's fridge only draws 200 watts, but 1500 watts in defrost. My
little generator will run my 5k btu air conditioner, but it running
the generator hard and uses a lot of gas, small tank.

Greg


your fridge may draw it's 200 watts once the compressor motor is
running,but on startup,it draws a lot more.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Tim Streater wrote in news:timstreater-
:

In article ,
"Rod Speed" wrote:

[not much]

Why are your posts so content-free?


why does anyone respond to them?
this is what killfiles are for.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 16:11:35 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Load one at 400VA and look at the waveform. It's fairly ugly.

And you don't get that with the generator being discussed.

An unbalanced load isn't required, which only creates
even order (asymmetric) distortion. A single phase
generator will happily create odd order (symmetrical)
distortion without an unbalanced generator load.

But you don't get anything like the amount of distortion
you were going on about, so it isnt a problem with an SMPS
being powered from that particular generator being discussed.

The oscilloscope photos in the URL's mentioned show the output
waveforms with and without loads. As I indicated, and you apparently
missed, it is NOT necessary to have an unbalanced load on the
generator in order to produce a distorted waveform. Also, it's a fair
assumption that this 800 watt generator is going to be powering more
than one device while camping. Besides the TV, there might be some
lamps, a laptop charger, satellite TV receiver, smartphone charger,
inkjet printer, and all the conveniences of portable modern living. In
general, the generator waveforms become more distorted with increased
load.

For example:
http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Generators_UPSs_match_or_bridge_to_nowhere-article-fapo_Falcon_mar2009-html.aspx
Scroll down to the oscilloscope photograph. Note the noise and
distortion.

No SMPS will have a problem with that.

As I previously suggested, some substantiation would be helpful. If
you had impeccable credentials, were a recognized authority, had
previously demonstrated expertise in this area, and perhaps were a
Nobel Prize recipient, I might accept your unsubstantiated judgments
without question. However, lacking those requirements, and being
apparently only able to produce one-line erroneous statements of
negligible value, you do not qualify. Please explain why numerous
articles on generator to UPS compatibility should be ignored.

In the past odd 20 years, I've run emergency generator versus
switching power supply problems many times. My favorite was while
working with computahs at a medical billing office. Someone dragged
in a Genrac 8kw(?) generator and wired it to a transfer box. It was a
professionally done installation by a licensed electrician. I
stupidly suggested we do a dry run with the building on full power,
and was immediately assigned the task. The day arrived, the big
switch was thrown, the generator started immediately, and about 30
assorted UPS backup power supplies beeped a few times, and shut down
in self defense. That powered down all the servers and network
hardware, which effectively shut down the network.

On the APC SmartUPS line (as opposed to the BackUPS line), there is a
switch to reduce the sensitivity to input waveform distortion. We
went around flipping switches and rebooting servers (after a 30
minutes file system check). When everything was back up and running,
the power was again switched off, and again all the UPS's shut down.

I drove to my palatial office and back with an oscilloscope to look at
the waveform. Even without a load, it looked something like this:
http://www.electronicproducts.com/images2/fapo_Falcon01_mar2009.gif
When I added all the non-computer loads to the Genrac generator, the
waveform became asymmetrical, because the load was not balanced
between the two phases. My clamp-on ammeter showed about 10A on one
leg and 7A on the other. It didn't take much to cause problems.

After about 8 power fail simulations, we were never able to bring
everything back up gracefully on generator power. It wasn't just the
UPS's that were having issues. The DVR for the security camera
systems refused to run. The wall warts for powering some Netgear
switches blew up and had to be replaced. Several CRT monitors acted
strangely and refused to produce a stable display. The Lucent phone
system would go into protection mode intermittently.

After the exercise was over, I elected to restore two of the servers
from backup tapes, because I didn't want to take the chance that all
the power thrashing had caused any data corruption. That took most of
the night. When business resumed on Monday, it was soon discovered
that the one server that I did NOT restore, had some minor data
corruption.

There was no way the office was going to run on this 6kw(?) generator.
The generator was removed, permits arranged, and a rather monstrous
and expensive 25kw diesel generator was installed. Attached to the
power leads was a large box full of low pass filter components to
remove spikes. I didn't need to look at the waveforms as it ran the
various UPS devices and switching power supplies perfectly.

You don't know that the generator
being discussed is anything like that.

You don't know what I know.

No news to me.

True. You haven't learned anything. I judge people by their
willingness and abilities to learn. You fail both criteria.

A while ago, I attempted to classify various usenet personality types.
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/genesis.txt
At the time, I hadn't even considered a classification suitable for
your style. You post useless and erroneous comments, and then wait
for those with some understanding of the topic to correct your
misinformation. The more attention you attract, the more useless
comments you produce, resulting in a positive feedback mechanism. I
suspect that your primary purpose is to attract corrective attention,
rather than answer the questions or debate the validity of the
proposed explanations. Had you demonstrated some understanding of the
topic by asking some intelligent questions, I might consider
continuing, but as it stands, I have no interest in entertaining you
or cleaning up your mess. Good day.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
If
you had impeccable credentials, were a recognized authority, had
previously demonstrated expertise in this area, and perhaps were a
Nobel Prize recipient,


Er Jeff, this is Rod Speed, ultimate Internet idiot par excellence you
are addressing.

Don't waste our bandwidth,.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 09:54:49 -0500, Jim Yanik
wrote:

why does anyone respond to them?
this is what killfiles are for.

Curiosity. I'm somewhat of an amateur psychologist. I like to see
what motivates people and how they think. That's difficult to do with
only one-line pontifications so I primed the pump with some content to
see if some intelligence might gush forth from the depths. Apparently
not. So, with my curiousity thus satisfied, I now return to the
mundane tasks of fixing things, tilting at windmills, and raising the
dead.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Jeff Liebermann wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Load one at 400VA and look at the waveform. It's fairly ugly.

And you don't get that with the generator being discussed.

An unbalanced load isn't required, which only creates
even order (asymmetric) distortion. A single phase
generator will happily create odd order (symmetrical)
distortion without an unbalanced generator load.

But you don't get anything like the amount of distortion
you were going on about, so it isnt a problem with an SMPS
being powered from that particular generator being discussed.

The oscilloscope photos in the URL's mentioned
show the output waveforms with and without loads.

Yes, but you don't in fact get anything like the distortion
that you were going on about with unbalanced loads on
2 phase generators which aren't even relevant to the
particular generator and load being discussed.

As I indicated, and you apparently missed, it is
NOT necessary to have an unbalanced load on the
generator in order to produce a distorted waveform.

Didn't miss anything. The distortion actually seen with the
particular generator and load being discussed is nothing
like enough to be a problem with a well designed SMPS.

Also, it's a fair assumption that this 800 watt generator is
going to be powering more than one device while camping.

Yes, but that's not necessarily much of a load.

Besides the TV, there might be some lamps, a laptop
charger, satellite TV receiver, smartphone charger, inkjet
printer, and all the conveniences of portable modern living.

None of which are much of a load.

In general, the generator waveforms become more distorted with increased
load.

Duh. But even with all of those you listed, it
won't be a problem for a well designed SMPS.

For example:
http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Generators_UPSs_match_or_bridge_to_nowhere-article-fapo_Falcon_mar2009-html.aspx
Scroll down to the oscilloscope photograph. Note the noise and
distortion.

No SMPS will have a problem with that.

As I previously suggested, some substantiation would be helpful.

You didn't provide any of that yourself until I rubbed your nose
in the fact that you never provided any yourself on your claim
about how SMPSs fail.

If you had impeccable credentials, were a recognized authority,
had previously demonstrated expertise in this area, and perhaps
were a Nobel Prize recipient, I might accept your unsubstantiated
judgments without question. However, lacking those requirements,
and being apparently only able to produce one-line erroneous
statements of negligible value, you do not qualify.

You in spades with your claim about how SMPSs fail.

Please explain why numerous articles on generator
to UPS compatibility should be ignored.

Because we arent discussing UPSs, we are discussing TVs instead.

In the past odd 20 years, I've run emergency generator versus
switching power supply problems many times. My favorite was while
working with computahs at a medical billing office. Someone dragged
in a Genrac 8kw(?) generator and wired it to a transfer box. It was a
professionally done installation by a licensed electrician. I
stupidly suggested we do a dry run with the building on full power,
and was immediately assigned the task. The day arrived, the big
switch was thrown, the generator started immediately, and about 30
assorted UPS backup power supplies beeped a few times, and shut
down in self defense. That powered down all the servers and
network hardware, which effectively shut down the network.

Completely and utterly irrelevant to what was being discussed,
that PARTICULAR generator mentioned in the subject and a TV.

On the APC SmartUPS line (as opposed to the BackUPS line), there
is a switch to reduce the sensitivity to input waveform distortion.
We went around flipping switches and rebooting servers (after a 30
minutes file system check). When everything was back up and running,
the power was again switched off, and again all the UPS's shut down.

Completely and utterly irrelevant to what was being discussed,
that PARTICULAR generator mentioned in the subject and a TV.

I drove to my palatial office and back with an oscilloscope to look at
the waveform. Even without a load, it looked something like this:
http://www.electronicproducts.com/images2/fapo_Falcon01_mar2009.gif
When I added all the non-computer loads to the Genrac generator, the
waveform became asymmetrical, because the load was not balanced
between the two phases. My clamp-on ammeter showed about 10A on one
leg and 7A on the other. It didn't take much to cause problems.

After about 8 power fail simulations, we were never able to bring
everything back up gracefully on generator power. It wasn't just the
UPS's that were having issues. The DVR for the security camera
systems refused to run. The wall warts for powering some Netgear
switches blew up and had to be replaced. Several CRT monitors acted
strangely and refused to produce a stable display. The Lucent phone
system would go into protection mode intermittently.

After the exercise was over, I elected to restore two of the servers
from backup tapes, because I didn't want to take the chance that all
the power thrashing had caused any data corruption. That took most of
the night. When business resumed on Monday, it was soon discovered
that the one server that I did NOT restore, had some minor data
corruption.

There was no way the office was going to run on this 6kw(?) generator.
The generator was removed, permits arranged, and a rather monstrous
and expensive 25kw diesel generator was installed. Attached to the
power leads was a large box full of low pass filter components to
remove spikes. I didn't need to look at the waveforms as it ran the
various UPS devices and switching power supplies perfectly.

All completely and utterly irrelevant to what was being discussed,
that PARTICULAR generator mentioned in the subject and a TV.

You don't know that the generator
being discussed is anything like that.

You don't know what I know.

I do know that you were rabbiting on about
two phase generators and UPSs that have
NOTHING to do with what the OP asked about.

No news to me.

True. You haven't learned anything.

Yep, none of the irrelevant **** you posted is any news to me.

I judge people by their willingness and abilities to learn.

No one give a flying red **** how you stupidly 'judge' people.

Particularly when you keep raving on about about situations that
have NOTHING to do with what was actually being discussed.

You fail both criteria.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying.

reams of your puerile attempts at insults that any 2 year
old could leave for dead flushed where they belong

On 13/07/2012 17:36, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 16:11:35 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

No SMPS will have a problem with that.

As I previously suggested, some substantiation would be helpful. If
you had impeccable credentials, were a recognized authority, had
previously demonstrated expertise in this area, and perhaps were a
Nobel Prize recipient, I might accept your unsubstantiated judgments
without question. However, lacking those requirements, and being
apparently only able to produce one-line erroneous statements of
negligible value, you do not qualify. Please explain why numerous
articles on generator to UPS compatibility should be ignored.

Alas you are wasting effort arguing with woddles - the most clue
resistant poster uk.d-i-y has known...

While the evidence would suggest otherwise, logic suggests that he can't
actually be totally stupid, because to be so consistently wrong on every
single one of the many topics he is willing to submit his opinion, must
actually take some considerable effort. Most clueless twonks actually
get the right answer by accident sometimes.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 12:08:36 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:


Incidentally, if you plan to look at the waveforms produced by a
gasoline generator with an oscillosope, use two scope probes and
differential inputs. One probe connects to each side of the power
line. The two probe grounds go to the generator frame ground. The
scope input selector is set to A-B. That will remove any common mode
noise on the display, and provide some protection against accidentally
getting the oscilloscope case at line potential.


Sounds like I have have to do a test with my two generators. One small
single out. One double output, 240 max. Get back later.

Greg

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 23:14:52 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 12:08:36 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:


Incidentally, if you plan to look at the waveforms produced by a
gasoline generator with an oscillosope, use two scope probes and
differential inputs. One probe connects to each side of the power
line. The two probe grounds go to the generator frame ground. The
scope input selector is set to A-B. That will remove any common mode
noise on the display, and provide some protection against accidentally
getting the oscilloscope case at line potential.

Sounds like I have have to do a test with my two generators. One small
single out. One double output, 240 max. Get back later.
Greg

I have 3 generators, none of which work. I dragged them home with the
intention of repairing them, and never found the time. Although I
didn't do this, you could add 10K resistors between the 10:1 probe
tips and the AC line connections, without trashing the waveform.

Good luck and please be careful.

Eaton's PSEC - Harmonics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoZQsGJ3WjY (5 min)
The first few minutes show waveforms comparing a linear load (light
bulb) and a non-linear load (switcher). Note the comments on
overheating and harmonics.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 23:14:52 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 12:08:36 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:


Incidentally, if you plan to look at the waveforms produced by a
gasoline generator with an oscillosope, use two scope probes and
differential inputs. One probe connects to each side of the power
line. The two probe grounds go to the generator frame ground. The
scope input selector is set to A-B. That will remove any common mode
noise on the display, and provide some protection against accidentally
getting the oscilloscope case at line potential.

Sounds like I have have to do a test with my two generators. One small
single out. One double output, 240 max. Get back later.
Greg

I have 3 generators, none of which work. I dragged them home with the
intention of repairing them, and never found the time. Although I
didn't do this, you could add 10K resistors between the 10:1 probe
tips and the AC line connections, without trashing the waveform.

Good luck and please be careful.

Eaton's PSEC - Harmonics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoZQsGJ3WjY (5 min)
The first few minutes show waveforms comparing a linear load (light
bulb) and a non-linear load (switcher). Note the comments on
overheating and harmonics.


I'm thinking I have X10 probes, but thanks. I would rather use a two
channel batter scope, but I don't have one. Then again, 8 bit resolution
crap.

Greg

In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 11/07/2012 10:37, D. T. Green wrote:
On just buying a 800 watt 'two' stroke petrol generator from Aldi, we
have
heard from someone who says that he has got one; and that his is
running
very roughly, and is really noisy.

Also it says in the instructions that it is *not* suitable for
connecting to
televisions or other sensitive electronic equipment.

Likely it is not just acoustically noisy but electronically noisy too
and the ignition system radio emissions will cause snow on a portable
TV. It might be so rough and ready electrically either voltage or
frequency wise that it could fail or wreck some old sets completely. I'd
expect most modern switched mode PSUs to cope with almost anything but
then you are taking a risk since the maker says it is unsuitable.



I would have said the exact opposite of that. Linear supplies with a nice
big chunk of L in the way, are pretty much unconcerned about such nasties
as spikes, whereas switchers will fail if you just look at them wrongly
on a day with a Y in it ...

Like hell they do.

However, that said, I would agree with everyone else that using this with
modern electronic equipment would not be a good idea.

That's just plain wrong with modern switch mode power supplys.


I repair hundreds of the things, and irrespective of the topology of any
individual design, most work by the skin of their teeth. Left alone, in
general, today's generation are fairly reliable, but in my experience,
subject them to the slightest abuse, and they fail - often catastrophically

Arfa

I can't imagine a 2 stroke aldi generator would even last long enough to
destroy any electronics. the thing must last about 2-3 minutes tops before
seizing, assuming it even starts out of the box.

In article ,
Cydrome Leader wrote:
I can't imagine a 2 stroke aldi generator would even last long enough to
destroy any electronics. the thing must last about 2-3 minutes tops
before seizing, assuming it even starts out of the box.

That'll be why they give a three year warranty? Instant money back -
provided you have the receipt. Wish others did as well.

--
*If only you'd use your powers for good instead of evil.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In sci.electronics.repair "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
Cydrome Leader wrote:
I can't imagine a 2 stroke aldi generator would even last long enough to
destroy any electronics. the thing must last about 2-3 minutes tops
before seizing, assuming it even starts out of the box.

That'll be why they give a three year warranty? Instant money back -
provided you have the receipt. Wish others did as well.

it could be a 100 year warranty. There's no way such a generator isn't
complete trash and won't have the endurance of a birthday cake candle.

Cydrome Leader wrote:

In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...

On 11/07/2012 10:37, D. T. Green wrote:

On just buying a 800 watt 'two' stroke petrol generator from Aldi, we
have
heard from someone who says that he has got one; and that his is
running
very roughly, and is really noisy.

Also it says in the instructions that it is *not* suitable for
connecting to
televisions or other sensitive electronic equipment.

Likely it is not just acoustically noisy but electronically noisy too
and the ignition system radio emissions will cause snow on a portable
TV. It might be so rough and ready electrically either voltage or
frequency wise that it could fail or wreck some old sets completely. I'd
expect most modern switched mode PSUs to cope with almost anything but
then you are taking a risk since the maker says it is unsuitable.



I would have said the exact opposite of that. Linear supplies with a nice
big chunk of L in the way, are pretty much unconcerned about such nasties
as spikes, whereas switchers will fail if you just look at them wrongly
on a day with a Y in it ...

Like hell they do.


However, that said, I would agree with everyone else that using this with
modern electronic equipment would not be a good idea.

That's just plain wrong with modern switch mode power supplys.


I repair hundreds of the things, and irrespective of the topology of any
individual design, most work by the skin of their teeth. Left alone, in
general, today's generation are fairly reliable, but in my experience,
subject them to the slightest abuse, and they fail - often catastrophically

Arfa


I can't imagine a 2 stroke aldi generator would even last long enough to
destroy any electronics. the thing must last about 2-3 minutes tops before
seizing, assuming it even starts out of the box.


We have a local iced cream truck that rides around through the park at
various parts of the day. It has one of those hanging on the back,
operating the freezer I presume. It seems to work for them just fine,
sounds funny though

Jamie

"Jamie" t wrote in message
...
Cydrome Leader wrote:

In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...

On 11/07/2012 10:37, D. T. Green wrote:

On just buying a 800 watt 'two' stroke petrol generator from Aldi, we
have
heard from someone who says that he has got one; and that his is
running
very roughly, and is really noisy.

Also it says in the instructions that it is *not* suitable for
connecting to
televisions or other sensitive electronic equipment.

Likely it is not just acoustically noisy but electronically noisy too
and the ignition system radio emissions will cause snow on a portable
TV. It might be so rough and ready electrically either voltage or
frequency wise that it could fail or wreck some old sets completely.
I'd expect most modern switched mode PSUs to cope with almost anything
but then you are taking a risk since the maker says it is unsuitable.



I would have said the exact opposite of that. Linear supplies with a
nice big chunk of L in the way, are pretty much unconcerned about such
nasties as spikes, whereas switchers will fail if you just look at them
wrongly on a day with a Y in it ...

Like hell they do.


However, that said, I would agree with everyone else that using this
with modern electronic equipment would not be a good idea.

That's just plain wrong with modern switch mode power supplys.


I repair hundreds of the things, and irrespective of the topology of any
individual design, most work by the skin of their teeth. Left alone, in
general, today's generation are fairly reliable, but in my experience,
subject them to the slightest abuse, and they fail - often
catastrophically

Arfa


I can't imagine a 2 stroke aldi generator would even last long enough to
destroy any electronics. the thing must last about 2-3 minutes tops
before seizing, assuming it even starts out of the box.


We have a local iced cream truck that rides around through the park at
various parts of the day. It has one of those hanging on the back,
operating the freezer I presume. It seems to work for them just fine,
sounds funny though

Jamie


That one tells jokes?
I'll get me coat.

In sci.electronics.repair "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
Cydrome Leader wrote:
I can't imagine a 2 stroke aldi generator would even last long enough to
destroy any electronics. the thing must last about 2-3 minutes tops
before seizing, assuming it even starts out of the box.

That'll be why they give a three year warranty? Instant money back -
provided you have the receipt. Wish others did as well.

it could be a 100 year warranty. There's no way such a generator isn't
complete trash and won't have the endurance of a birthday cake candle.


I can't vouch for their 2 stroke model but I do own an Aldi 4 stroke
generator that has served me well for 8 years. It doesn't come out often but
when it does it performs faultlessly. It powers everything in the house (not
all at the same time) during power outages, runs power tools away from the
mains, and lighting and PA equipment at an annual outdoor event. The longest
daily use was 7 years ago when we had no power for 5 days, it ran approx. 18
hours a day every day.

Mike