Just a few abstract thoughts here. It makes sense to me,
but then I've been known to over look the obvious on
occasion. ;-)

I have a solenoid coil that actuates a large 3-pole
contactor. A short pulse to pull up on a lever that
will toggle it from on position to another, and back.

Making measurements of the solenoid coil, although
potted in epoxy, yields a few measurements and a
couple of guesses.

http://www.pronine.ca/multind.htm

Coil form 1" diameter, 1-3/8" width and 1.5" depth.
Going backwards on a solenoid coil java script, yields
a matching 125 mH inductance (as measured) and 95 ohm
DCR (as measured) for 2500 turns of #30 AWG which will
fill the bobbin.

This a 480 VAC actuator.

Am I headed in the right direction if I assume the key
factor here is ampere turns?

Not allowing for the added inductance by a movable core,
this has an impedance of roughly 100 ohms. So that works
out to 4.8 amps or 12,000 ampere turns.

Substituting 2000 turns of #28 AWG yields 80 mH, and 42
Ohms. And subsequently roughly 12,000 ampere turns at
240 VAC.

Putting 240 VAC across the 480 VAC coil yields only 6,000
ampere turns and obviously is NOT enough to actuate the
contactor transfer mechanism.

The reason I'm curious is that ASCO seems to think that
the replacement coil for this is worth $585, although
they will sell it as the "sale price" of only $421.80.

Jeff-1.0
The other other one

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

Just a few abstract thoughts here. It makes sense to me,
but then I've been known to over look the obvious on
occasion. ;-)

I have a solenoid coil that actuates a large 3-pole
contactor. A short pulse to pull up on a lever that
will toggle it from on position to another, and back.

Making measurements of the solenoid coil, although
potted in epoxy, yields a few measurements and a
couple of guesses.

http://www.pronine.ca/multind.htm

Coil form 1" diameter, 1-3/8" width and 1.5" depth.
Going backwards on a solenoid coil java script, yields
a matching 125 mH inductance (as measured) and 95 ohm
DCR (as measured) for 2500 turns of #30 AWG which will
fill the bobbin.

This a 480 VAC actuator.

Am I headed in the right direction if I assume the key
factor here is ampere turns?

Not allowing for the added inductance by a movable core,
this has an impedance of roughly 100 ohms. So that works
out to 4.8 amps or 12,000 ampere turns.

Substituting 2000 turns of #28 AWG yields 80 mH, and 42
Ohms. And subsequently roughly 12,000 ampere turns at
240 VAC.

Putting 240 VAC across the 480 VAC coil yields only 6,000
ampere turns and obviously is NOT enough to actuate the
contactor transfer mechanism.

The reason I'm curious is that ASCO seems to think that
the replacement coil for this is worth $585, although
they will sell it as the "sale price" of only $421.80.

Jeff-1.0
The other other one

Beware that some coils are dual coils with diodes potted in them.

WHen a diode fails in one of these, they tend to generate some noise
when energized. This is because one coil is pushing both directions
against the other that isn't.

Basically what this means is, the coil is designed to operate in a
DC state.

What we have done in the past if we suspected a shorted diode in one
of these types is to put a bridge rectifier in front of it.

But I can tell you this, if the construction of core around this coil
in the device that is using it has a laminated type layers, chances are,
you have a simple coil and there is some form of shading device near the
contact point where the accouter makes contact with it.

What is this thing? A ratcheting three position device? being ASCO, it
sounds like some kind of valve.

Jamie

On 10/16/2011 4:33 PM, Jamie wrote:
Beware that some coils are dual coils with diodes potted in them.

WHen a diode fails in one of these, they tend to generate some noise
when energized. This is because one coil is pushing both directions
against the other that isn't.

Basically what this means is, the coil is designed to operate in a
DC state.

What we have done in the past if we suspected a shorted diode in one
of these types is to put a bridge rectifier in front of it.

But I can tell you this, if the construction of core around this coil
in the device that is using it has a laminated type layers, chances are,
you have a simple coil and there is some form of shading device near the
contact point where the accouter makes contact with it.

What is this thing? A ratcheting three position device? being ASCO, it
sounds like some kind of valve.

This is a simple multi-layer solenoid.
It is fed with 480 VAC via an external bridge rectifier.

It is a pull up actuated 100 amp 3-pole contactor.

It is physically identical to this one, with the excption of
being 3-poles rather than 2.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130520617745

The solenoid is at the top left of the contactor with the bridge
rectifier on the side.

Jeff-1.0



--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 15:48:07 -0500, Jeffrey Angus
wrote:

This a 480 VAC actuator.

Make, model, and photograph?

Is there a copper D-ring on the top end of the solenoid?

If the coil it dead, try disolving the epoxy.
http://www.esslinger.com/attack.aspx
It will also make a useful coil form.

If you know the core dimensions and the wire guage, you can estimate
the number of turns.

The reason I'm curious is that ASCO seems to think that
the replacement coil for this is worth $585, although
they will sell it as the "sale price" of only $421.80.

Check eBay?


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 10/16/2011 5:14 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 15:48:07 -0500, Jeffrey
wrote:

This a 480 VAC actuator.

Make, model, and photograph?


A similar model. 2-pole 120 VAC rather than 3-pole 480 VAC.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130520617745

This is the coil itself from ASCO.
http://www.ascoparts.com/343500-063.html

Is there a copper D-ring on the top end of the solenoid?

Nope.

If the coil it dead, try disolving the epoxy.
http://www.esslinger.com/attack.aspx
It will also make a useful coil form.

Coil works perfectly with 480 VAC applied to the bridge
recitfier. My task is to wind a new coil that will work
at 240 VAC.

If you know the core dimensions and the wire gauge, you
can estimate the number of turns.

I did that, see the initial posting. Using DC resistance,
physical size and measured inductance.

The reason I'm curious is that ASCO seems to think that
the replacement coil for this is worth $585, although
they will sell it as the "sale price" of only $421.80.

Check eBay?

They have the contactors available from $750 and up, and
complete units for $1500 and up.

No solenoids only.

Jeff-1.0



--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 10/16/2011 5:14 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 15:48:07 -0500, Jeffrey
wrote:

This a 480 VAC actuator.


Make, model, and photograph?



A similar model. 2-pole 120 VAC rather than 3-pole 480 VAC.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130520617745

This is the coil itself from ASCO.
http://www.ascoparts.com/343500-063.html

Is there a copper D-ring on the top end of the solenoid?


Nope.

If the coil it dead, try disolving the epoxy.
http://www.esslinger.com/attack.aspx
It will also make a useful coil form.


Coil works perfectly with 480 VAC applied to the bridge
recitfier. My task is to wind a new coil that will work
at 240 VAC.

If you know the core dimensions and the wire gauge, you
can estimate the number of turns.


I did that, see the initial posting. Using DC resistance,
physical size and measured inductance.

The reason I'm curious is that ASCO seems to think that
the replacement coil for this is worth $585, although
they will sell it as the "sale price" of only $421.80.


Check eBay?


They have the contactors available from $750 and up, and
complete units for $1500 and up.

No solenoids only.

Jeff-1.0



Why don't you use a simple step up transformer for the coil?
you won't need a large one.

JAmie

Jamie wrote:

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 10/16/2011 5:14 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 15:48:07 -0500, Jeffrey
wrote:

This a 480 VAC actuator.



Make, model, and photograph?




A similar model. 2-pole 120 VAC rather than 3-pole 480 VAC.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130520617745

This is the coil itself from ASCO.
http://www.ascoparts.com/343500-063.html

Is there a copper D-ring on the top end of the solenoid?



Nope.

If the coil it dead, try disolving the epoxy.
http://www.esslinger.com/attack.aspx
It will also make a useful coil form.



Coil works perfectly with 480 VAC applied to the bridge
recitfier. My task is to wind a new coil that will work
at 240 VAC.

If you know the core dimensions and the wire gauge, you
can estimate the number of turns.



I did that, see the initial posting. Using DC resistance,
physical size and measured inductance.

The reason I'm curious is that ASCO seems to think that
the replacement coil for this is worth $585, although
they will sell it as the "sale price" of only $421.80.



Check eBay?



They have the contactors available from $750 and up, and
complete units for $1500 and up.

No solenoids only.

Jeff-1.0



Why don't you use a simple step up transformer for the coil?
you won't need a large one.

JAmie


To add to that, a 1:1 control transformer of a very small size can
be wired as a buck boost to operate that coil.

Jamie

Jamie wrote:

Jamie wrote:

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 10/16/2011 5:14 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 15:48:07 -0500, Jeffrey
wrote:

This a 480 VAC actuator.



Make, model, and photograph?




A similar model. 2-pole 120 VAC rather than 3-pole 480 VAC.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130520617745

This is the coil itself from ASCO.
http://www.ascoparts.com/343500-063.html

Is there a copper D-ring on the top end of the solenoid?



Nope.

If the coil it dead, try disolving the epoxy.
http://www.esslinger.com/attack.aspx
It will also make a useful coil form.



Coil works perfectly with 480 VAC applied to the bridge
recitfier. My task is to wind a new coil that will work
at 240 VAC.

If you know the core dimensions and the wire gauge, you
can estimate the number of turns.



I did that, see the initial posting. Using DC resistance,
physical size and measured inductance.

The reason I'm curious is that ASCO seems to think that
the replacement coil for this is worth $585, although
they will sell it as the "sale price" of only $421.80.



Check eBay?



They have the contactors available from $750 and up, and
complete units for $1500 and up.

No solenoids only.

Jeff-1.0



Why don't you use a simple step up transformer for the coil?
you won't need a large one.

JAmie


To add to that, a 1:1 control transformer of a very small size can
be wired as a buck boost to operate that coil.


Tell him something he DOESN'T already know.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On 10/16/2011 8:12 PM, Jamie wrote:
To add to that, a 1:1 control transformer of a very small size
can be wired as a buck boost to operate that coil.

As I mentioned previously, the solenoid requires a 5.2 amp pulse
to properly actuate the contactor mechanism.

With a 240/240 control transformer wired up in boost mode that
would need at 1000 VA transformer as a bare minimum.

Jeff-1.0

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

On 10/16/2011 8:05 PM, Jamie wrote:
Why don't you use a simple step up transformer for the coil?
you won't need a large one.

Um, however briefly, the transformer needs to supply
5.2 amps at 480 volts to successfully energize the coil.

That's 2500 VA Even a 500 VA control transformer that I have
sags too much to properly actuate the transfer switch.

Jeff-1.0

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 10/16/2011 8:05 PM, Jamie wrote:

Why don't you use a simple step up transformer for the coil?
you won't need a large one.


Um, however briefly, the transformer needs to supply
5.2 amps at 480 volts to successfully energize the coil.

That's 2500 VA Even a 500 VA control transformer that I have
sags too much to properly actuate the transfer switch.

Jeff-1.0

I find it hard to believe that coil is using that much? Are you
sure it's in proper working order? We have 500 amp contactors with
120V coils that only require about 2 amps to pull in. Something just
does not sound right, but what ever.



Jamie

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 17:30:05 -0500, Jeffrey Angus
wrote:

Coil works perfectly with 480 VAC applied to the bridge
recitfier. My task is to wind a new coil that will work
at 240 VAC.

You left that out of your initial rant. First sentence should be what
the [deleted expletive] you're trying to accomplish.

I did that, see the initial posting. Using DC resistance,
physical size and measured inductance.

What you want is an equal amount of magnetic force (i.e. gilberts) or
ampere-turns for both the 480VAC and 240VAC coils.

480VAC coil = 125mH and 95 ohms
XL = 2*Pi*60*125*10^-3 = 47 ohm
Total impedance is the vector sum of 95 ohms and 47 ohms =
Z = sqrt(95^2 + 47^2) = 105 ohms
Current is:
I = 480VAC / 105 ohms = 4.5A
2500 turns * 4.5A = 11,250 AT
Ok, you got that part correct.

Trying a different gauge for 240VAC. The hard part will be keeping
the max diameter to under 1.5" OD.

http://www.pronine.ca/multind.htm
For #29awg, 75mH, 1990 turns, 51 ohms resistance.
XL = 2*Pi*60*75*10^-3 = 28 ohm
Z = sqrt(51^2 + 28^2) = 63 ohms
I = 240VAC / 63 ohms = 3.8A
1990 turns * 3.8A = 7580 AT

For #28awg, 60mH, 1759 turns, 37 ohms resistance.
XL = 2*Pi*60*60*10^-3 = 22.5 ohm
Z = sqrt(51^2 + 37^2) = 63 ohms
I = 240VAC / 63 ohms = 3.8A
1759 turns * 3.8A = 6700 AT

Ok, that's not going to work. Most of the impedance is coming from
the DC resistance of the wire. Decreasing the gauge decreases this
resistance, but also decreases the number of turns that will fit on a
the spool to a maximum OD of 1.5". This isn't working. I give up for
tonite.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 10/16/2011 11:11 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Ok, that's not going to work. Most of the impedance is coming from
the DC resistance of the wire. Decreasing the gauge decreases this
resistance, but also decreases the number of turns that will fit on a
the spool to a maximum OD of 1.5". This isn't working. I give up for
tonite.

Well as long as your bitching at me for leaving something out....

The original coil is being fed through a bridge rectifier (mentioned
elsewhere in the thread). So the AC impedance is less of an issue.

Using the proline scripting, I came up with 80 mH using #28 AWG wire,
1988 turns and 1.54" outside diameter with 42.63 ohms.

I come up with 11192 ampere turns. I've got some wiggle room to
increase the bobbin size a bit. So rest well good sir, we are at
a point that is "close enough" to wind up a prototype and see if
works properly.

If it does, then it gets potted in Epoxy to match the original
physical dimensions and we call it a success.

Jeff-1.0

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 02:51:21 -0500, Jeffrey Angus
wrote:

On 10/16/2011 11:11 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Ok, that's not going to work. Most of the impedance is coming from
the DC resistance of the wire. Decreasing the gauge decreases this
resistance, but also decreases the number of turns that will fit on a
the spool to a maximum OD of 1.5". This isn't working. I give up for
tonite.

Well as long as your bitching at me for leaving something out....

I always find something to complain about. It's part of my standard
usenet protocol. Nothing personal.

The original coil is being fed through a bridge rectifier (mentioned
elsewhere in the thread). So the AC impedance is less of an issue.

Bad news. 60Hz is still AC. The AC current, is determined by the AC
impedance also known as Z. Fortunately, most of it comes from the
resistance of the wires, making the coil specs easier to guess.

Using the proline scripting, I came up with 80 mH using #28 AWG wire,
1988 turns and 1.54" outside diameter with 42.63 ohms.

You cheated by going over the OD by 0.04". Assuming you can pack the
windings in as tight as the original, that shouldn't be a problem. I'm
not all that confident you can do it. Use a mandrel and a slow
turning lathe.

I come up with 11192 ampere turns. I've got some wiggle room to
increase the bobbin size a bit. So rest well good sir, we are at
a point that is "close enough" to wind up a prototype and see if
works properly.

It will probably work. I just hate to say that as I'm sure you'll
blame me when it explodes and sprays coil bobbin parts all over the
shop. It might help to immolate an old solenoid on the barbeque as a
burnt offering to the god of electric power for a favorable outcome.

If it does, then it gets potted in Epoxy to match the original
physical dimensions and we call it a success.

Right. Hide the evidence. Be sure to embalm the windings in yellow
Kapton (Polyimide) high temp tape before potting. I learned that the
hard way after trying to pot some radios. The epoxy shrinks as it
hardens, which likes to tear wires away from their attachment points.
The tape provides an easy air space for the epoxy to shrink.





--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeffrey Angus wrote:
On 10/16/2011 11:11 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Ok, that's not going to work. Most of the impedance is coming from
the DC resistance of the wire. Decreasing the gauge decreases this
resistance, but also decreases the number of turns that will fit on a
the spool to a maximum OD of 1.5". This isn't working. I give up for
tonite.


Well as long as your bitching at me for leaving something out....

The original coil is being fed through a bridge rectifier (mentioned
elsewhere in the thread). So the AC impedance is less of an issue.

Using the proline scripting, I came up with 80 mH using #28 AWG wire,
1988 turns and 1.54" outside diameter with 42.63 ohms.

I come up with 11192 ampere turns. I've got some wiggle room to
increase the bobbin size a bit. So rest well good sir, we are at
a point that is "close enough" to wind up a prototype and see if
works properly.

If it does, then it gets potted in Epoxy to match the original
physical dimensions and we call it a success.

Jeff-1.0

You know, at this point, you pretty much don't care I would assume how
ever, have you thought about constructing a voltage double rectifier
instead of that bridge rectifier to drive that coil?





+-------+-------++
| | |
+ | |
D1 - | |
^ | |
| | +
C1 + + C|
240 AC in | --- C| 480 Solenoid
|| | ---C2 C|
+---+-||+------+ + |
|| + | +
| | |
- | |
D2 ^ | |
240 AC in + | |
| + |
+-------------+-------++-------+
(created by AACircuit v1.28.6 beta 04/19/05 www.tech-chat.de)


I suppose if you had to motor caps around you could use those, the
large ones of course.

What ever.
Jamie

On Oct 16, 1:48*pm, Jeffrey Angus wrote:
Just a few abstract thoughts here. It makes sense to me,
but then I've been known to over look the obvious on
occasion. ;-)

I have a solenoid coil that actuates a large 3-pole
contactor. A short pulse to pull up on a lever that
will toggle it from on position to another, and back.

Making measurements of the solenoid coil, although
potted in epoxy, yields a few measurements and a
couple of guesses.

http://www.pronine.ca/multind.htm

Coil form 1" diameter, 1-3/8" width and 1.5" depth.
Going backwards on a solenoid coil java script, yields
a matching 125 mH inductance (as measured) and 95 ohm
DCR (as measured) for 2500 turns of #30 AWG which will
fill the bobbin.

This a 480 VAC actuator.

Am I headed in the right direction if I assume the key
factor here is ampere turns?

Not allowing for the added inductance by a movable core,
this has an impedance of roughly 100 ohms. So that works
out to 4.8 amps or 12,000 ampere turns.

Substituting 2000 turns of #28 AWG yields 80 mH, and 42
Ohms. And subsequently roughly 12,000 ampere turns at
240 VAC.

Putting 240 VAC across the 480 VAC coil yields only 6,000
ampere turns and obviously is NOT enough to actuate the
contactor transfer mechanism.

The reason I'm curious is that ASCO seems to think that
the replacement coil for this is worth $585, although
they will sell it as the "sale price" of only $421.80.

do you see the part number on this list? Seems considerably cheaper:

http://www.valvestore.com/products.asp?dept=1448

On Oct 16, 4:48*pm, Jeffrey Angus wrote:
Just a few abstract thoughts here. It makes sense to me,
but then I've been known to over look the obvious on
occasion. ;-)

I have a solenoid coil that actuates a large 3-pole
contactor. A short pulse to pull up on a lever that
will toggle it from on position to another, and back.

Making measurements of the solenoid coil, although
potted in epoxy, yields a few measurements and a
couple of guesses.

http://www.pronine.ca/multind.htm

Coil form 1" diameter, 1-3/8" width and 1.5" depth.
Going backwards on a solenoid coil java script, yields
a matching 125 mH inductance (as measured) and 95 ohm
DCR (as measured) for 2500 turns of #30 AWG which will
fill the bobbin.

This a 480 VAC actuator.

Am I headed in the right direction if I assume the key
factor here is ampere turns?

Not allowing for the added inductance by a movable core,
this has an impedance of roughly 100 ohms. So that works
out to 4.8 amps or 12,000 ampere turns.

Substituting 2000 turns of #28 AWG yields 80 mH, and 42
Ohms. And subsequently roughly 12,000 ampere turns at
240 VAC.

Putting 240 VAC across the 480 VAC coil yields only 6,000
ampere turns and obviously is NOT enough to actuate the
contactor transfer mechanism.

The reason I'm curious is that ASCO seems to think that
the replacement coil for this is worth $585, although
they will sell it as the "sale price" of only $421.80.

Jeff-1.0
The other other one

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

Hi Jeff, I know nothing about power stuff or soleniod coils. I have
made a few open air magnetics. (Usually Helmholtz things) If the size
of both air coils is the same, then I believe your calculations are
correct. It's only the magnetic field strength that you need to match
and that's proportional to number of amp-turns. Wind away I say!

George H.

On Oct 20, 4:31*pm, George Herold wrote:
On Oct 16, 4:48*pm, Jeffrey Angus wrote:





Just a few abstract thoughts here. It makes sense to me,
but then I've been known to over look the obvious on
occasion. ;-)

I have a solenoid coil that actuates a large 3-pole
contactor. A short pulse to pull up on a lever that
will toggle it from on position to another, and back.

Making measurements of the solenoid coil, although
potted in epoxy, yields a few measurements and a
couple of guesses.

http://www.pronine.ca/multind.htm

Coil form 1" diameter, 1-3/8" width and 1.5" depth.
Going backwards on a solenoid coil java script, yields
a matching 125 mH inductance (as measured) and 95 ohm
DCR (as measured) for 2500 turns of #30 AWG which will
fill the bobbin.

This a 480 VAC actuator.

Am I headed in the right direction if I assume the key
factor here is ampere turns?

Not allowing for the added inductance by a movable core,
this has an impedance of roughly 100 ohms. So that works
out to 4.8 amps or 12,000 ampere turns.

Substituting 2000 turns of #28 AWG yields 80 mH, and 42
Ohms. And subsequently roughly 12,000 ampere turns at
240 VAC.

Putting 240 VAC across the 480 VAC coil yields only 6,000
ampere turns and obviously is NOT enough to actuate the
contactor transfer mechanism.

The reason I'm curious is that ASCO seems to think that
the replacement coil for this is worth $585, although
they will sell it as the "sale price" of only $421.80.

Jeff-1.0
The other other one

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

Hi Jeff, *I know nothing about power stuff or soleniod coils. *I have
made a few open air magnetics. (Usually Helmholtz things) If the size
of both air coils is the same, then I believe your calculations are
correct. *It's only the magnetic field strength that you need to match
and that's proportional to number of amp-turns. *Wind away I say!

Driving home, I was thinking that since you're doing a pulsed thing
you may care about the L/R time constant. (Is the pulse time much
longer than that?) Did 'your' program spit out inductance values
too? (Forgive me, I'm too lazy to look for them.) For 'thin' coils
you'd expect the inducatance (for the low voltage coil) to go down by
four and the resistance to go down by two, so a decrease of two in the
time constant... hardly seems like it would matter, unless somethng
else in the circuit is expectng it to take longer. For your fat coil
the change in time constant is likely even less.

George H.



George H.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh

On 10/20/2011 5:54 PM, George Herold wrote:
Driving home, I was thinking that since you're doing a pulsed thing
you may care about the L/R time constant. (Is the pulse time much
longer than that?)

The pulse is mechanically derived.
The small control relay energizes the solenoid. When the solenoid
causes the transfer switch to actuate, the auxiliary contacts
open the solenoid connection.

Jeff-1.0

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

A follow up to this exercise.

Using 1/16" PVC for the ends and schedule 40 1/2" PVC
for the core, I wound 2000 turns of #28 wire on the
form and put things together to test them.

It works with 240 VAC across the bridge rectifier now.

And yes, the coil heats up. It's trying to dissipate
1440 watts. (240 VAC @ 6 amps)

The contacts on the transfer switch disconnect the
solenoid coil from power as soon as it starts to move.
Inertia carries it through the sequence.

Jeff-1.0

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 15:08:29 -0600, Jeffrey Angus
wrote:

And yes, the coil heats up. It's trying to dissipate
1440 watts. (240 VAC @ 6 amps)

You might want to add a thermal fuse in series with the coil. It the
contactor gets stuck in the energized position, you might have a fire.

The contacts on the transfer switch disconnect the
solenoid coil from power as soon as it starts to move.
Inertia carries it through the sequence.

That happens it the actuator gets stuck or if the energizing voltage
is unusually low? Duz it stick in the "on" state?

Worrying about the widows and orphans this might harm...



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 11/13/2011 6:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 15:08:29 -0600, Jeffrey
wrote:

And yes, the coil heats up. It's trying to dissipate
1440 watts. (240 VAC @ 6 amps)
You might want to add a thermal fuse in series with the coil. It the
contactor gets stuck in the energized position, you might have a fire.

There is that. See below...

The contacts on the transfer switch disconnect the
solenoid coil from power as soon as it starts to move.
Inertia carries it through the sequence.
That happens it the actuator gets stuck or if the energizing voltage
is unusually low? Duz it stick in the "on" state?

Worrying about the widows and orphans this might harm...

See, now this is where everyone got upset over nothing.

This whole exercise was to see _IF_ I could correctly wind a
replacement solenoid for 240 V rather than the original 480 V.

Now that I've satisfied my curiosity, I'm going to sell it in
it's original format (480 v 3-phase) as THAT is where it's value
lies.

Jeff

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 20:47:45 -0600, Jeffrey Angus
wrote:

This whole exercise was to see _IF_ I could correctly wind a
replacement solenoid for 240 V rather than the original 480 V.

Now that I've satisfied my curiosity, I'm going to sell it in
it's original format (480 v 3-phase) as THAT is where it's value
lies.

So, this was all an academic exercise, with no practical purpose or
monetary value? Had I known, I would have been less helpful and more
insulting. You should feel guilty for having wasted my time. For
penitence, please either flog yourself, or send me an appropriate
percentage of the proceeds.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 11/13/2011 10:43 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
send me an appropriate percentage of the proceeds.

Fear not fearless leader, I'll remember to cut you in.

Jeff-1.0


--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"