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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
Due to dirt in use or at manufacture?
Carlsboro 10 inch ,open circuit, so burrowed in to explore. On the phenolic cylinder that is the former for the voice coil . 4 pairs of scored ines( stand out white against the amber colour of the phenolic). Each pair about 6 to 7mm apart and arranged pairwise diametrically. I suspect 4 pieces of sharp edged metal shim used in the original cone setting and scored on removal. All the lines go axially , fully from one end to the other , so if made in use would require the diaphragm (spider?) being driven 10 mm into the magnet housing. Apart from the nearly symetrical distribution of the lines. -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
#2
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
N_Cook wrote:
Due to dirt in use or at manufacture? Carlsboro 10 inch ,open circuit, so burrowed in to explore. On the phenolic cylinder that is the former for the voice coil . 4 pairs of scored ines( stand out white against the amber colour of the phenolic). Each pair about 6 to 7mm apart and arranged pairwise diametrically. I suspect 4 pieces of sharp edged metal shim used in the original cone setting and scored on removal. All the lines go axially , fully from one end to the other , so if made in use would require the diaphragm (spider?) being driven 10 mm into the magnet housing. Apart from the nearly symetrical distribution of the lines. Something isnt right here. Are the scored lines on the inside or the outside of the coil former? Are the windings damaged by the scoring? If it were the setting shims to blame for the scored lines - which seems doubtful they`d use metal, all mine are plastic - they go on the inside of the coil former. The windings are on the outside. Take photo if you can. Ron(UK) |
#3
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
Ron wrote in message
... N_Cook wrote: Due to dirt in use or at manufacture? Carlsboro 10 inch ,open circuit, so burrowed in to explore. On the phenolic cylinder that is the former for the voice coil . 4 pairs of scored ines( stand out white against the amber colour of the phenolic). Each pair about 6 to 7mm apart and arranged pairwise diametrically. I suspect 4 pieces of sharp edged metal shim used in the original cone setting and scored on removal. All the lines go axially , fully from one end to the other , so if made in use would require the diaphragm (spider?) being driven 10 mm into the magnet housing. Apart from the nearly symetrical distribution of the lines. Something isnt right here. Are the scored lines on the inside or the outside of the coil former? Are the windings damaged by the scoring? If it were the setting shims to blame for the scored lines - which seems doubtful they`d use metal, all mine are plastic - they go on the inside of the coil former. The windings are on the outside. Take photo if you can. Ron(UK) the lines are on the smooth internal surface that glides over the central section of the magnet, not the coil surface. I doubt the lines are anything to do with the failure, that is well outside the coil area. Probably due to stress on epoxy curing on a supposed stress relieving bend of the coil runout wire inside a fillet ring of epoxy where the cone meets the phenolic cylinder and before the join with the pigtail, so repairable. Will try a pic of the lines -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
#4
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
Ron wrote in message
... N_Cook wrote: Due to dirt in use or at manufacture? Carlsboro 10 inch ,open circuit, so burrowed in to explore. On the phenolic cylinder that is the former for the voice coil . 4 pairs of scored ines( stand out white against the amber colour of the phenolic). Each pair about 6 to 7mm apart and arranged pairwise diametrically. I suspect 4 pieces of sharp edged metal shim used in the original cone setting and scored on removal. All the lines go axially , fully from one end to the other , so if made in use would require the diaphragm (spider?) being driven 10 mm into the magnet housing. Apart from the nearly symetrical distribution of the lines. Something isnt right here. Are the scored lines on the inside or the outside of the coil former? Are the windings damaged by the scoring? If it were the setting shims to blame for the scored lines - which seems doubtful they`d use metal, all mine are plastic - they go on the inside of the coil former. The windings are on the outside. Take photo if you can. Ron(UK) There is no overheating , scoring or any damage to the coil or elesewhere just these lines. http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:gra...voice_coil.jpg Could someone confirm that the woven and corrugated yellow part I've labelled purple "S" is called the spider. The cone is to the other side of it. "L" is the lead out of the coil and "G" is some sort of optical guide laid in the layup, on the manderel, of the phenolic for placing the lead-outs to then meet up with the pigtails at the cone. Moire fringing is where the coil is. A second sight guide and second of a pair score line is part in shadow off to the upper right. There is a third and fourth pair of lines diametrically opposite these 2 pairs -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
#5
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
N_Cook wrote:
Ron wrote in message ... N_Cook wrote: Due to dirt in use or at manufacture? Carlsboro 10 inch ,open circuit, so burrowed in to explore. On the phenolic cylinder that is the former for the voice coil . 4 pairs of scored ines( stand out white against the amber colour of the phenolic). Each pair about 6 to 7mm apart and arranged pairwise diametrically. I suspect 4 pieces of sharp edged metal shim used in the original cone setting and scored on removal. All the lines go axially , fully from one end to the other , so if made in use would require the diaphragm (spider?) being driven 10 mm into the magnet housing. Apart from the nearly symetrical distribution of the lines. Something isnt right here. Are the scored lines on the inside or the outside of the coil former? Are the windings damaged by the scoring? If it were the setting shims to blame for the scored lines - which seems doubtful they`d use metal, all mine are plastic - they go on the inside of the coil former. The windings are on the outside. Take photo if you can. Ron(UK) There is no overheating , scoring or any damage to the coil or elesewhere just these lines. http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:gra...voice_coil.jpg Could someone confirm that the woven and corrugated yellow part I've labelled purple "S" is called the spider. The cone is to the other side of it. Yes the rear suspension is traditionally refered to as the spider because in early speakers it was a (usually) three legged tufnol affair a bit like the '3 legs of Man' mounted insided the v/c and screwed to the pole piece of the magnet. The v/c was centered by loosening off the screw and moving the spider around. Often a low frequency (100 hz) (120 in the USA) note was played through the speaker whilst the adjustment took place "L" is the lead out of the coil and "G" is some sort of optical guide laid in the layup, on the manderel, of the phenolic for placing the lead-outs to then meet up with the pigtails at the cone. Moire fringing is where the coil is. A second sight guide and second of a pair score line is part in shadow off to the upper right. I dont think that line G is any form of optical sight, just where the layup of the laminations of the former are recessed to feed the lower coil leadout up There is a third and fourth pair of lines diametrically opposite these 2 pairs I think those are just marks made by withdrawing the coil former from whatever chuck held it in the winding machine or curing oven - or both. If there`s no rubbing or burning of the coil, you`ll probably find the o/c is where the end of the coil passes throught the cone and is soldered to the pigtail. This is sometimes repairable by scraping off the glue and reheating the 'blob'. Not worth messing around tho, replacement speakers like those are cheap. Ron |
#6
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
N_Cook wrote: Due to dirt in use or at manufacture? Carlsboro 10 inch ,open circuit, so burrowed in to explore. On the phenolic cylinder that is the former for the voice coil . 4 pairs of scored ines( stand out white against the amber colour of the phenolic). Each pair about 6 to 7mm apart and arranged pairwise diametrically. I suspect 4 pieces of sharp edged metal shim used in the original cone setting and scored on removal. All the lines go axially , fully from one end to the other , so if made in use would require the diaphragm (spider?) being driven 10 mm into the magnet housing. Apart from the nearly symetrical distribution of the lines. How much time do you waste inflating customers' bills by wasting time on the pointless ? Graham |
#7
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
Eeyore wrote:
N_Cook wrote: Due to dirt in use or at manufacture? Carlsboro 10 inch ,open circuit, so burrowed in to explore. On the phenolic cylinder that is the former for the voice coil . 4 pairs of scored ines( stand out white against the amber colour of the phenolic). Each pair about 6 to 7mm apart and arranged pairwise diametrically. I suspect 4 pieces of sharp edged metal shim used in the original cone setting and scored on removal. All the lines go axially , fully from one end to the other , so if made in use would require the diaphragm (spider?) being driven 10 mm into the magnet housing. Apart from the nearly symetrical distribution of the lines. How much time do you waste inflating customers' bills by wasting time on the pointless ? Graham Graham, Since you've discovered this group, you've done just as little to contribute as you do on any other. Why don't you just go to bed...and stay there? jak |
#8
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
Ron wrote in message
... N_Cook wrote: Ron wrote in message ... N_Cook wrote: Due to dirt in use or at manufacture? Carlsboro 10 inch ,open circuit, so burrowed in to explore. On the phenolic cylinder that is the former for the voice coil . 4 pairs of scored ines( stand out white against the amber colour of the phenolic). Each pair about 6 to 7mm apart and arranged pairwise diametrically. I suspect 4 pieces of sharp edged metal shim used in the original cone setting and scored on removal. All the lines go axially , fully from one end to the other , so if made in use would require the diaphragm (spider?) being driven 10 mm into the magnet housing. Apart from the nearly symetrical distribution of the lines. Something isnt right here. Are the scored lines on the inside or the outside of the coil former? Are the windings damaged by the scoring? If it were the setting shims to blame for the scored lines - which seems doubtful they`d use metal, all mine are plastic - they go on the inside of the coil former. The windings are on the outside. Take photo if you can. Ron(UK) There is no overheating , scoring or any damage to the coil or elesewhere just these lines. http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:gra...voice_coil.jpg Could someone confirm that the woven and corrugated yellow part I've labelled purple "S" is called the spider. The cone is to the other side of it. Yes the rear suspension is traditionally refered to as the spider because in early speakers it was a (usually) three legged tufnol affair a bit like the '3 legs of Man' mounted insided the v/c and screwed to the pole piece of the magnet. The v/c was centered by loosening off the screw and moving the spider around. Often a low frequency (100 hz) (120 in the USA) note was played through the speaker whilst the adjustment took place "L" is the lead out of the coil and "G" is some sort of optical guide laid in the layup, on the manderel, of the phenolic for placing the lead-outs to then meet up with the pigtails at the cone. Moire fringing is where the coil is. A second sight guide and second of a pair score line is part in shadow off to the upper right. I dont think that line G is any form of optical sight, just where the layup of the laminations of the former are recessed to feed the lower coil leadout up There is a third and fourth pair of lines diametrically opposite these 2 pairs I think those are just marks made by withdrawing the coil former from whatever chuck held it in the winding machine or curing oven - or both. If there`s no rubbing or burning of the coil, you`ll probably find the o/c is where the end of the coil passes throught the cone and is soldered to the pigtail. This is sometimes repairable by scraping off the glue and reheating the 'blob'. Not worth messing around tho, replacement speakers like those are cheap. Ron If it was scoring from expandable/contractable mandrel or a chuck of some sort I'd expect it to be engineered and pairs of lines exactly 6mm or something precise apart, these are about 6 to 8 mm apart and some lines have a nearby accompanying line. They are white as in scoring not grooves set in at moulding . Or more likely no marks as what is the point if the process leaves such serious imperfections where you don't want them. -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
#9
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
N_Cook wrote:
Ron wrote in message ... N_Cook wrote: Ron wrote in message ... N_Cook wrote: Due to dirt in use or at manufacture? Carlsboro 10 inch ,open circuit, so burrowed in to explore. On the phenolic cylinder that is the former for the voice coil . 4 pairs of scored ines( stand out white against the amber colour of the phenolic). Each pair about 6 to 7mm apart and arranged pairwise diametrically. I suspect 4 pieces of sharp edged metal shim used in the original cone setting and scored on removal. All the lines go axially , fully from one end to the other , so if made in use would require the diaphragm (spider?) being driven 10 mm into the magnet housing. Apart from the nearly symetrical distribution of the lines. Something isnt right here. Are the scored lines on the inside or the outside of the coil former? Are the windings damaged by the scoring? If it were the setting shims to blame for the scored lines - which seems doubtful they`d use metal, all mine are plastic - they go on the inside of the coil former. The windings are on the outside. Take photo if you can. Ron(UK) There is no overheating , scoring or any damage to the coil or elesewhere just these lines. http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:gra...voice_coil.jpg Could someone confirm that the woven and corrugated yellow part I've labelled purple "S" is called the spider. The cone is to the other side of it. Yes the rear suspension is traditionally refered to as the spider because in early speakers it was a (usually) three legged tufnol affair a bit like the '3 legs of Man' mounted insided the v/c and screwed to the pole piece of the magnet. The v/c was centered by loosening off the screw and moving the spider around. Often a low frequency (100 hz) (120 in the USA) note was played through the speaker whilst the adjustment took place "L" is the lead out of the coil and "G" is some sort of optical guide laid in the layup, on the manderel, of the phenolic for placing the lead-outs to then meet up with the pigtails at the cone. Moire fringing is where the coil is. A second sight guide and second of a pair score line is part in shadow off to the upper right. I dont think that line G is any form of optical sight, just where the layup of the laminations of the former are recessed to feed the lower coil leadout up There is a third and fourth pair of lines diametrically opposite these 2 pairs I think those are just marks made by withdrawing the coil former from whatever chuck held it in the winding machine or curing oven - or both. If there`s no rubbing or burning of the coil, you`ll probably find the o/c is where the end of the coil passes throught the cone and is soldered to the pigtail. This is sometimes repairable by scraping off the glue and reheating the 'blob'. Not worth messing around tho, replacement speakers like those are cheap. Ron If it was scoring from expandable/contractable mandrel or a chuck of some sort I'd expect it to be engineered and pairs of lines exactly 6mm or something precise apart, these are about 6 to 8 mm apart and some lines have a nearby accompanying line. They are white as in scoring not grooves set in at moulding . Or more likely no marks as what is the point if the process leaves such serious imperfections where you don't want them. I don't know what else it could be then, if it were damage which occured in use, the lines wouldn't be so precise -a small amount of metal or grit in the magnetic gap makes a mess. It looks to me as thought the coil former has been slid off some kind of holder which has left marks where the contact points were. Are they such 'serious inmperfections'? you might possibly find every single speaker of that model has the same marks, and I doubt that they affect the performance of what is in reality a cheap speaker. The whole exercise is academic anyway, it`s a ten quid speaker which almost certainly failed because of some other defect - probably customer misuse. I suggest Mr Cook that you are a frustrated forensic pathologist - you obviously take great pleasure in taking things apart and performing autopsies, ----- Ron |
#10
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:56:04 -0000, "N_Cook" put
finger to keyboard and composed: There is no overheating , scoring or any damage to the coil or elesewhere just these lines. http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:gra...voice_coil.jpg I've often encountered speakers which sound distorted but are still functional. By moving the cone by hand, I can feel and hear the coil scraping against something. Would this be caused by blistered insulation as a consequence of overheating? - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. |
#11
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
Franc Zabkar wrote in message
... On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:56:04 -0000, "N_Cook" put finger to keyboard and composed: There is no overheating , scoring or any damage to the coil or elesewhere just these lines. http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:gra...voice_coil.jpg I've often encountered speakers which sound distorted but are still functional. By moving the cone by hand, I can feel and hear the coil scraping against something. Would this be caused by blistered insulation as a consequence of overheating? - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. Any bits of swarf or grit, causing lines in service, would be only half the length of these lines. They extend the whole axial length of the coil former, into the dome space. -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
#12
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
jakdedert wrote: Eeyore wrote: N_Cook wrote: Due to dirt in use or at manufacture? Carlsboro 10 inch ,open circuit, so burrowed in to explore. On the phenolic cylinder that is the former for the voice coil . 4 pairs of scored ines( stand out white against the amber colour of the phenolic). Each pair about 6 to 7mm apart and arranged pairwise diametrically. I suspect 4 pieces of sharp edged metal shim used in the original cone setting and scored on removal. All the lines go axially , fully from one end to the other , so if made in use would require the diaphragm (spider?) being driven 10 mm into the magnet housing. Apart from the nearly symetrical distribution of the lines. How much time do you waste inflating customers' bills by wasting time on the pointless ? Graham, Since you've discovered this group, you've done just as little to contribute as you do on any other. Why don't you just go to bed...and stay there? I discovered it a long time ago and I contribute useful information. N_Cook however is a ****. He is a self-admitted 'bodger'. Graham |
#13
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
jakdedert wrote: Eeyore wrote: How much time do you waste inflating customers' bills by wasting time on the pointless ? Graham Graham, Since you've discovered this group, you've done just as little to contribute as you do on any other. Why don't you just go to bed...and stay there? jak He is a troll on the other electronics newsgroups, and bitches about everything. He despises anything to do with the United States. He thinks he is a genius, and keeps bragging about his IQ. Just another 'Skippy' who claims to be the world's foremost audio electronics designer. -- http://improve-usenet.org/index.html aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white listed, or I will not see your messages. If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm There are two kinds of people on this earth: The crazy, and the insane. The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy. |
#14
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
jakdedert wrote: Eeyore wrote: How much time do you waste inflating customers' bills by wasting time on the pointless ? Graham Graham, Since you've discovered this group, you've done just as little to contribute as you do on any other. Why don't you just go to bed...and stay there? jak He is a troll on the other electronics newsgroups, and bitches about everything. He despises anything to do with the United States. He thinks he is a genius, and keeps bragging about his IQ. Just another 'Skippy' who claims to be the world's foremost audio electronics designer. A 'skippy'? do explain please Ron(UK) |
#15
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
Ron wrote: Michael A. Terrell wrote: jakdedert wrote: Eeyore wrote: How much time do you waste inflating customers' bills by wasting time on the pointless ? Graham Graham, Since you've discovered this group, you've done just as little to contribute as you do on any other. Why don't you just go to bed...and stay there? jak He is a troll on the other electronics newsgroups, and bitches about everything. He despises anything to do with the United States. He thinks he is a genius, and keeps bragging about his IQ. Just another 'Skippy' who claims to be the world's foremost audio electronics designer. A 'skippy'? do explain please Ron(UK) Look at the archives of rec.antiques.radio+phono and you will see the original 'skippy' in action, before he disappeared. At one point, he was making threats by telephone. He lost multiple ISP accounts before he disappeared. He was a self appointed expert on old audio gear, and a royal pain in the ass. -- http://improve-usenet.org/index.html aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white listed, or I will not see your messages. If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm There are two kinds of people on this earth: The crazy, and the insane. The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy. |
#16
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Ron wrote: A 'skippy'? do explain please Ron(UK) Look at the archives of rec.antiques.radio+phono and you will see the original 'skippy' in action, before he disappeared. At one point, he was making threats by telephone. He lost multiple ISP accounts before he disappeared. He was a self appointed expert on old audio gear, and a royal pain in the ass. Ah, there`s a lot of it about Ron |
#17
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:03:23 +0000, Ron put
finger to keyboard and composed: Michael A. Terrell wrote: jakdedert wrote: Eeyore wrote: How much time do you waste inflating customers' bills by wasting time on the pointless ? Graham Graham, Since you've discovered this group, you've done just as little to contribute as you do on any other. Why don't you just go to bed...and stay there? jak He is a troll on the other electronics newsgroups, and bitches about everything. He despises anything to do with the United States. He thinks he is a genius, and keeps bragging about his IQ. Just another 'Skippy' who claims to be the world's foremost audio electronics designer. A 'skippy'? do explain please Ron(UK) A Skippy is an Anglo-Celtic Aussie. I always thought Eeyore was a Brit living in Britain. - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. |
#18
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
Franc Zabkar wrote: A Skippy is an Anglo-Celtic Aussie. I always thought Eeyore was a Brit living in Britain. There was a cartoon drawn with a drooling idiot who was called 'Skippy' -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense! |
#19
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Scored lines on speaker voice coil former
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Franc Zabkar wrote: A Skippy is an Anglo-Celtic Aussie. I always thought Eeyore was a Brit living in Britain. There was a cartoon drawn with a drooling idiot who was called 'Skippy' Speaking of Eeyore (aka Graham Stevenson) I haven't seen him online for months, any one heard anything from him? Ron(UK) |
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