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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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I have a flat ribbon cable in a synthesizer that senses pressure
aftertouch. It lets you play a note, then push harder on the key to get an extra effect. Well, I put a screw through it. I'd like to repair it because it's easy to get to the hole, but really hard to remove the whole cable. The problem is that I don't know what kind of wire it is or how it works. Since I don't know what it's called, it's hard to do a google search. I've posted a picture of it at http://www.francismcgrath.com/wire.jpg. Can someone tell me what this kind of wire is called? Secondly, I'd be very interested in learning how to fix it. Thanks, Francis |
#2
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On Jan 1, 10:38*pm, Francis McGrath wrote:
I have a flat ribbon cable in a synthesizer that senses pressure aftertouch. *It lets you play a note, then push harder on the key to get an extra effect. *Well, I put a screw through it. *I'd like to repair it because it's easy to get to the hole, but really hard to remove the whole cable. *The problem is that I don't know what kind of wire it is or how it works. *Since I don't know what it's called, it's hard to do a google search. *I've posted a picture of it athttp://www.francismcgrath.com/wire.jpg. *Can someone tell me what this kind of wire is called? *Secondly, I'd be very interested in learning how to fix it. Thanks, Francis How many conductors are there in the cable, and do you know how to solder? |
#3
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On Jan 1, 10:46 pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote: On Jan 1, 10:38 pm, Francis McGrath wrote: I have a flat ribbon cable in a synthesizer that senses pressure aftertouch. It lets you play a note, then push harder on the key to get an extra effect. Well, I put a screw through it. I'd like to repair it because it's easy to get to the hole, but really hard to remove the whole cable. The problem is that I don't know what kind of wire it is or how it works. Since I don't know what it's called, it's hard to do a google search. I've posted a picture of it athttp://www.francismcgrath.com/wire.jpg. Can someone tell me what this kind of wire is called? Secondly, I'd be very interested in learning how to fix it. Thanks, Francis How many conductors are there in the cable, and do you know how to solder? Thanks for posting. There are 2 wires that come out of the blue connector, so I guess that means 2 conductors. That's part of what makes me confused, there only appears to be one cable zig-zagging through the wire, but on closer examination, the zig-zagging part is clear. And yes I can solder. Francis |
#4
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Francis McGrath wrote:
On Jan 1, 10:46 pm, "hr(bob) " wrote: On Jan 1, 10:38 pm, Francis McGrath wrote: I have a flat ribbon cable in a synthesizer that senses pressure aftertouch. It lets you play a note, then push harder on the key to get an extra effect. Well, I put a screw through it. I'd like to repair it because it's easy to get to the hole, but really hard to remove the whole cable. The problem is that I don't know what kind of wire it is or how it works. Since I don't know what it's called, it's hard to do a google search. I've posted a picture of it athttp://www.francismcgrath.com/wire.jpg. Can someone tell me what this kind of wire is called? Secondly, I'd be very interested in learning how to fix it. Thanks, Francis How many conductors are there in the cable, and do you know how to solder? Thanks for posting. There are 2 wires that come out of the blue connector, so I guess that means 2 conductors. That's part of what makes me confused, there only appears to be one cable zig-zagging through the wire, but on closer examination, the zig-zagging part is clear. And yes I can solder. Francis It looks like some sort of capacitive sensor. I don't think the QTC type of pressure sensor can be made clear like that. You have lost three of the 'fingers' but there is no damage to the main conductors. Also from the diagonal crease, the damage would appear to be between the keyboard and the circuit board, *NOT* under any keys. YOU GOT LUCKY! Just take a very sharp craft knife and trim the edges of the hole carefully taking off as little as possible to remove any fragments that might short-circuit, but *DO* *NOT* nick or cut the main conductors top and bottom. It should still work just fine. If the crease is your doing, and the hole is under a key try it anyway but it may need to be adjusted sideways slightly so the hole falls between keys. If the hole is in contact with any metal surface when installed put a bit of insulating tape on the metal to prevent contact (not on the hole, the 'sticky' may cause problems when it ages). -- Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED) ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL: |
#5
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In article , Francis McGrath wrote:
On Jan 1, 10:46 pm, "hr(bob) " wrote: On Jan 1, 10:38 pm, Francis McGrath wrote: I have a flat ribbon cable in a synthesizer that senses pressure aftertouch. It lets you play a note, then push harder on the key to get an extra effect. Well, I put a screw through it. I'd like to repair it because it's easy to get to the hole, but really hard to remove the whole cable. The problem is that I don't know what kind of wire it is or how it works. Since I don't know what it's called, it's hard to do a google search. I've posted a picture of it athttp://www.francismcgrath.com/wire.jpg. Can someone tell me what this kind of wire is called? Secondly, I'd be very interested in learning how to fix it. Thanks, Francis How many conductors are there in the cable, and do you know how to solder? Thanks for posting. There are 2 wires that come out of the blue connector, so I guess that means 2 conductors. That's part of what makes me confused, there only appears to be one cable zig-zagging through the wire, but on closer examination, the zig-zagging part is clear. And yes I can solder. Francis WHat you have looks like a rectilinear sensor. I used to work for a company ( www.spectrasymbol.com ) that used to make these similar types of parts. They are actually silver and carbon conductive elements that are silkscreened onto plastic. You cannot solder this. It called a"Linear Potentiometer" or "Flexible Printed Circuits" or "Membrane Switch Technology" Remeber the old Atari 400 Keyboards? The connector is a form of a BERG connector http://www.bergelect.com Depending on what your bugdet is or how bad you want it fixed i bet www.spectrasymbol.com can make one for you. http://www.spectrasymbol.com/typo3/s...-products.html |
#6
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In article , Francis McGrath wrote:
On Jan 1, 10:46 pm, "hr(bob) " wrote: On Jan 1, 10:38 pm, Francis McGrath wrote: I have a flat ribbon cable in a synthesizer that senses pressure aftertouch. It lets you play a note, then push harder on the key to get an extra effect. Well, I put a screw through it. I'd like to repair it because it's easy to get to the hole, but really hard to remove the whole cable. The problem is that I don't know what kind of wire it is or how it works. Since I don't know what it's called, it's hard to do a google search. I've posted a picture of it athttp://www.francismcgrath.com/wire.jpg. Can someone tell me what this kind of wire is called? Secondly, I'd be very interested in learning how to fix it. Thanks, Francis How many conductors are there in the cable, and do you know how to solder? Thanks for posting. There are 2 wires that come out of the blue connector, so I guess that means 2 conductors. That's part of what makes me confused, there only appears to be one cable zig-zagging through the wire, but on closer examination, the zig-zagging part is clear. And yes I can solder. Francis http://www.spectrasymbol.com/typo3/s...sh/hotpot.html |
#7
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On Jan 2, 3:47*am, IanM wrote:
Francis McGrath wrote: On Jan 1, 10:46 pm, "hr(bob) " wrote: On Jan 1, 10:38 pm, Francis McGrath wrote: I have a flat ribbon cable in a synthesizer that senses pressure aftertouch. *It lets you play a note, then push harder on the key to get an extra effect. *Well, I put a screw through it. *I'd like to repair it because it's easy to get to the hole, but really hard to remove the whole cable. *The problem is that I don't know what kind of wire it is or how it works. *Since I don't know what it's called, it's hard to do a google search. *I've posted a picture of it athttp://www.francismcgrath.com/wire.jpg. *Can someone tell me what this kind of wire is called? *Secondly, I'd be very interested in learning how to fix it. Thanks, Francis How many conductors are there in the cable, and do you know how to solder? Thanks for posting. There are 2 wires that come out of the blue connector, so I guess that means 2 conductors. *That's part of what makes me confused, there only appears to be one cable zig-zagging through the wire, but on closer examination, the zig-zagging part is clear. *And yes I can solder. Francis It looks like some sort of capacitive sensor. I don't think the QTC type of pressure sensor can be made clear like that. *You have lost three of the 'fingers' but there is no damage to the main conductors. *Also from the diagonal crease, the damage would appear to be between the keyboard and the circuit board, *NOT* under any keys. YOU GOT LUCKY! Just take a very sharp craft knife and trim the edges of the hole carefully taking off as little as possible to remove any fragments that might short-circuit, but *DO* *NOT* nick or cut the main conductors top and bottom. *It should still work just fine. *If the crease is your doing, and the hole is under a key try it anyway but it may need to be adjusted sideways slightly so the hole falls between keys. If the hole is in contact with any metal surface when installed put a bit of insulating tape on the metal to prevent contact (not on the hole, the 'sticky' may cause problems when it ages). -- Ian Malcolm. * London, ENGLAND. *(NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED) ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - But if the hole cut thru any of the conductors, like it appears to do, the OP will have to reestablish continuity by soldering a wire to each end of the broken path to reestablish the continuity. |
#8
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#9
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#10
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GMAN wrote:
In article , "hr(bob) " wrote: But if the hole cut thru any of the conductors, like it appears to do, the OP will have to reestablish continuity by soldering a wire to each end of the broken path to reestablish the continuity. Your a better solderer than I if you can solder to plastic!!!!! Been there, done that. Sinclair keyboard cable repairs. It can be done but the success rate per joint is sufficiently low that repairing anything complex is totally impractical, You need *extremely* flexible wire to stand a chance of it working and even so the repair is incredibly fragile. Also its 'kill or cure' as the slightest mistake and you've melted through the plastic. I'd rather clean a swimming pool with a toothbrush, it would be less frustrating . . . -- Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED) ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL: |
#11
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On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 20:38:33 -0800 (PST), Francis McGrath
wrote: I have a flat ribbon cable in a synthesizer that senses pressure aftertouch. It lets you play a note, then push harder on the key to get an extra effect. Well, I put a screw through it. I'd like to repair it because it's easy to get to the hole, but really hard to remove the whole cable. The problem is that I don't know what kind of wire it is or how it works. Since I don't know what it's called, it's hard to do a google search. I've posted a picture of it at http://www.francismcgrath.com/wire.jpg. Can someone tell me what this kind of wire is called? Secondly, I'd be very interested in learning how to fix it. Conductive paint? http://www.action-electronics.com/conductivepaint.htm Thanks, Francis |
#12
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I want to thank everyone for posting. I want to make sure I
understand what everyone is saying. There are 2 "wires" with little teeth. Each wire looks like: ____________________ | | | | | | | | | | | | It looks like I damaged some teeth, but not the main part of the wire. Yet it's still not sending signal. Does every tooth have to be there? Something I else I'm wondering, since the damage is near the end of the cable, could I just cut off the damaged portion and reattach the connector? I have enough slack for this. If I try to remove the connector, it will probably ruin it, won't it? Also, I don't know how the ribbon cable hooks to the connector. Any thoughts? Thanks again, Francis |
#13
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Francis McGrath wrote:
I want to thank everyone for posting. I want to make sure I understand what everyone is saying. There are 2 "wires" with little teeth. Each wire looks like: ____________________ | | | | | | | | | | | | It looks like I damaged some teeth, but not the main part of the wire. Yet it's still not sending signal. Does every tooth have to be there? Probably not, especially if this part isn't under any keys. Just to eliminate the more insane possibilities, can you confirm that this cable is only connected at one end? Something I else I'm wondering, since the damage is near the end of the cable, could I just cut off the damaged portion and reattach the connector? I have enough slack for this. If I try to remove the connector, it will probably ruin it, won't it? Also, I don't know how the ribbon cable hooks to the connector. Any thoughts? If you powered it on with the screw through the cable, its possible you damaged the circuit that this sensor connects to. Its also possible you have a short circuit in the cable due to the damage, but I don't think so looking at the photo. Is there any evidence of damage to the blue connector or the mating socket caused by the cable getting pulled as the screw went through it? Its likely the contacts on the cable were crimped in place and then the blue plastic was either moulded round it or otherwise bonded. I wouldn't try dismantling it without a quote for a replacement in front of me. If it is a capacitive sensor, shortening it by more than a very small percentage of the total cable length may put the circuit out of adjustment and prevent it working anyway. Check the resistance across the two contact pins on the cable with it disconnected from the board. If my suspicion that its a capacitive sensor is correct, the resistance should be higher than a good multimeter can measure. In that case, connect a capacitance meter, and see if the capacitance changes noticeably when a small metal object (e.g. a coin taped to a biro to let you move it without getting your hands near the circuit) is placed against the cable surface. You will probably only get a change of a few picofarads. Try either side of the damage. I think that it probably calibrates the sensor when it's switched on and if you allow the cable to move while you are testing the complete unit it may go out of adjustment and so not work. Did you try it out with the lid *ON* (you don't need to put all the screws back in)? Also what was the fault or reason that made you open it to start with? -- Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED) ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL: |
#14
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In article , Francis McGrath wrote:
I want to thank everyone for posting. I want to make sure I understand what everyone is saying. There are 2 "wires" with little teeth. Each wire looks like: ____________________ | | | | | | | | | | | | It looks like I damaged some teeth, but not the main part of the wire. Yet it's still not sending signal. Does every tooth have to be there? Something I else I'm wondering, since the damage is near the end of the cable, could I just cut off the damaged portion and reattach the connector? I have enough slack for this. If I try to remove the connector, it will probably ruin it, won't it? Also, I don't know how the ribbon cable hooks to the connector. Any thoughts? Thanks again, Francis It will ruin it. The connectors are applied with a special tool. |
#16
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OK,
I decided to take apart the connector. The blue part was just a plastic holder. Inside were 2 metal pins hooked to each side of the cable. For lack of a better term, they were basically stappled into each of the two "wires". Seeing how it was connected, I got inspired. I bought a connector like you see at the end of an IDE connector. This one had 8 pins, so I removed 6 of them. I cut off the wire and discarded the portion with the hole in it. I was able to punch the pins through the wires just perfectly but it still didn't work. So it's starting to look like there is a problem somewhere else in the wire. Since getting taking the wire out would involve literally hundreds of screws, I'll wait till I have to go in the keyboard for some other repair. I guess I can live with it for now. Thanks to everyone for their great advice. Francis |
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