In my opinion, they should be outlawed world-wide. Period. Suddenly, just
as the government here in the UK looks set to ban sales of incandescents,
a movement is rearing up to bring to the attention of the great unwashed
( and the dumb politicians ) the potential hazards of using, accidentally
breaking, and safely disposing of CFLs. I sincerely hope that it gains
sufficient momentum to cast enough doubt over this dreadful knee-jerk
technology, to knock its viability as a direct replacement for
incandescents, firmly on the head ...



I don't want to see either one banned. Most any ban is a knee-jerk reaction
from politicians who know little or nothing about the subject at hand.
There's ways to encourage use of more energy efficient technology where
possible, but there are some applications where incandescent is still the
most suitable, and some climates where the waste heat they produce is not
really waste. Likewise, I feel that much of the hysteria over lead and
mercury in CFLs is unfounded, fluorescent lamps are not the only source of
mercury in the environment, and they are not impossible to recycle or
dispose of properly. I do feel that any store that sells them should accept
dead ones for recycling though, just as is the case with rechargable
batteries.

In my opinion, they should be outlawed world-wide. Period. Suddenly,
just as the government here in the UK looks set to ban sales of
incandescents, a movement is rearing up to bring to the attention of
the great unwashed (and the dumb politicians) the potential hazards
of using, accidentally breaking, and safely disposing of CFLs. I sincerely
hope that it gains sufficient momentum to cast enough doubt over this
dreadful knee-jerk technology, to knock its viability as a direct
replacement
for incandescents, firmly on the head...

The amount of mercury in any single bulb is small. And it's elemental
mercury, not an organic mercury compound, which is not as toxic as the
latter.

We've been using fluroescent lamps for almost 70 years. Their presence
didn't seem to cause much in the way of environmental problems. Or scratched
hands.

I've replaced several incandescents with CFLs, and I'm very, very pleased.
Part of it is that they're in glass fixtures that have a slightly warm cast.
You'd never know they're CFLs.

William Sommerwerck wrote:

In my opinion, they should be outlawed world-wide. Period. Suddenly,
just as the government here in the UK looks set to ban sales of
incandescents, a movement is rearing up to bring to the attention of
the great unwashed (and the dumb politicians) the potential hazards
of using, accidentally breaking, and safely disposing of CFLs. I sincerely
hope that it gains sufficient momentum to cast enough doubt over this
dreadful knee-jerk technology, to knock its viability as a direct

replacement

for incandescents, firmly on the head...


The amount of mercury in any single bulb is small. And it's elemental
mercury, not an organic mercury compound, which is not as toxic as the
latter.

Why do you suppose elemental mercury has been so demonized in the U.S.,
such that glass thermometers, manometers, barometers, mercury switches,
classroom stores and much more are deemed hazards of the highest order
and subject to various recalls, seizures and hazmat raids? I had always
suspected that vastly more mercury is introduced into the environment
from burning coal than could ever reach the food chain from elemental
mercury containing devices.


We've been using fluroescent lamps for almost 70 years. Their presence
didn't seem to cause much in the way of environmental problems. Or scratched
hands.

Any idea on the amount of accumulated environmental contamination from lamp
tube disposal over the past 70 years? It was never uncommon to observe
commercial tubes being smashed into dumpsters for decades...

Regards,

Michael

Why do you suppose elemental mercury has been so demonized in the U.S.,
such that glass thermometers, manometers, barometers, mercury switches,
classroom stores and much more are deemed hazards of the highest order
and subject to various recalls, seizures and hazmat raids? I had always
suspected that vastly more mercury is introduced into the environment
from burning coal than could ever reach the food chain from elemental
mercury containing devices.



Gives people something to be hysterical about I suppose. I feel the same way
about asbestos and PCBs, I wouldn't spread them on toast or dump them on the
ground outside, but I feel they're unfairly demonized and made out to be far
more dangerous than they are while other toxic substances are practically
ignored.

I can't vouch for this, but a friend commented recently that the asbestos
removal guys are running out of work and the latest hysteria is formaldahyde
in fiberglass insulation.

"James Sweet" writes:


In my opinion, they should be outlawed world-wide. Period. Suddenly, just
as the government here in the UK looks set to ban sales of incandescents,
a movement is rearing up to bring to the attention of the great unwashed
( and the dumb politicians ) the potential hazards of using, accidentally
breaking, and safely disposing of CFLs. I sincerely hope that it gains
sufficient momentum to cast enough doubt over this dreadful knee-jerk
technology, to knock its viability as a direct replacement for
incandescents, firmly on the head ...



I don't want to see either one banned. Most any ban is a knee-jerk reaction
from politicians who know little or nothing about the subject at hand.
There's ways to encourage use of more energy efficient technology where
possible, but there are some applications where incandescent is still the
most suitable, and some climates where the waste heat they produce is not
really waste. Likewise, I feel that much of the hysteria over lead and
mercury in CFLs is unfounded, fluorescent lamps are not the only source of
mercury in the environment, and they are not impossible to recycle or
dispose of properly. I do feel that any store that sells them should accept
dead ones for recycling though, just as is the case with rechargable
batteries.

How much mercury is there in a single 40 (or 34) watt normal fluorescent
lamp? They are often tossed in the trash to break.....

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

"James Sweet" writes:

Why do you suppose elemental mercury has been so demonized in the U.S.,
such that glass thermometers, manometers, barometers, mercury switches,
classroom stores and much more are deemed hazards of the highest order
and subject to various recalls, seizures and hazmat raids? I had always
suspected that vastly more mercury is introduced into the environment
from burning coal than could ever reach the food chain from elemental
mercury containing devices.



Gives people something to be hysterical about I suppose. I feel the same way
about asbestos and PCBs, I wouldn't spread them on toast or dump them on the
ground outside, but I feel they're unfairly demonized and made out to be far
more dangerous than they are while other toxic substances are practically
ignored.

Duh, let's see. Asbestos IS a mineral so it's already in the ground
outside.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

The average screw in CFL light, how many volts and amps does it supply
to the wires at the glass bulb?
cuhulin

wrote in message
...
The average screw in CFL light, how many volts and amps does it supply
to the wires at the glass bulb?
cuhulin


Volts - quite a lot. Amps - next to nothing. See

http://www.pavouk.org/hw/lamp/en_index.html

if you want to know more about how they work (or don't ...)

Arfa

wrote in message
...
The average screw in CFL light, how many volts and amps does it supply
to the wires at the glass bulb?
cuhulin


Depends on tubing size, typically 60-100V at 80-260mA. The important thing
is the current, that determines lamp power, the voltage will settle at
whatever the tube likes it to be. Larger diameter tubes tend to run higher
current than skinny tubes, but power density has been steadily increasing as
the lamps have become more compact.

William Sommerwerck wrote in message
. ..
In my opinion, they should be outlawed world-wide. Period. Suddenly,
just as the government here in the UK looks set to ban sales of
incandescents, a movement is rearing up to bring to the attention of
the great unwashed (and the dumb politicians) the potential hazards
of using, accidentally breaking, and safely disposing of CFLs. I
sincerely
hope that it gains sufficient momentum to cast enough doubt over this
dreadful knee-jerk technology, to knock its viability as a direct
replacement
for incandescents, firmly on the head...

The amount of mercury in any single bulb is small. And it's elemental
mercury, not an organic mercury compound, which is not as toxic as the
latter.

We've been using fluroescent lamps for almost 70 years. Their presence
didn't seem to cause much in the way of environmental problems. Or
scratched
hands.

I've replaced several incandescents with CFLs, and I'm very, very pleased.
Part of it is that they're in glass fixtures that have a slightly warm
cast.
You'd never know they're CFLs.



According to this site
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/energystar/en...answers.cfm#me
rcury
The average mercury content in a CFL is about 3 milligrams - roughly the
amount it would take to cover the tip of a ball-point pen.

And for a home thermometer - 500 milligrams - 2 grams.

As a very small kid I managed to break the bulb of a thermometer in my
mouth.
Then and ecades on and no known physical or mental impairmtgk erkscf dbf
qwkcsfd ..........

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

"N Cook" wrote in message
...
William Sommerwerck wrote in message
. ..
In my opinion, they should be outlawed world-wide. Period. Suddenly,
just as the government here in the UK looks set to ban sales of
incandescents, a movement is rearing up to bring to the attention of
the great unwashed (and the dumb politicians) the potential hazards
of using, accidentally breaking, and safely disposing of CFLs. I
sincerely
hope that it gains sufficient momentum to cast enough doubt over this
dreadful knee-jerk technology, to knock its viability as a direct
replacement
for incandescents, firmly on the head...

The amount of mercury in any single bulb is small. And it's elemental
mercury, not an organic mercury compound, which is not as toxic as the
latter.

We've been using fluroescent lamps for almost 70 years. Their presence
didn't seem to cause much in the way of environmental problems. Or
scratched
hands.

I've replaced several incandescents with CFLs, and I'm very, very
pleased.
Part of it is that they're in glass fixtures that have a slightly warm
cast.
You'd never know they're CFLs.



According to this site
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/energystar/en...answers.cfm#me
rcury
The average mercury content in a CFL is about 3 milligrams - roughly the
amount it would take to cover the tip of a ball-point pen.

And for a home thermometer - 500 milligrams - 2 grams.

As a very small kid I managed to break the bulb of a thermometer in my
mouth.
Then and ecades on and no known physical or mental impairmtgk erkscf dbf
qwkcsfd ..........


Also as a kid, I had a small pot of mercury that I had 'rescued' from a
mercury tilt switch - rather a large one - that was on some lump of junk
found on a piece of wasteland where I used to play ... Boy, do you remember
the thrill of finding some piece of mysterious 'treasure' like this on those
endless summer days ... ?

Anyway, I used to play with the stuff in my hands for hours, so it can't
have been *that* readily poisonous. Still, if concerns about the toxicity of
mercury makes this rotten government sit back and take stock of what they
are doing in the name of the great god Green, and it makes them think again
about forcing us to adopt the crappy things by banning sales of
incandescents, then that's fine with me, and I'll be up there with the best
of 'em, screaming about the terrible dangers of having mercury loose in the
home for your children to inhale and swallow !

As a youth, I also used to keep a mouthful of lead airgun pellets to slip
rapidly into my gun, instead of having to hunt amongst the fluff in my
pocket, or trying to wrestle the box open without dropping them all. They
would stay in my mouth for hours, again during those endless summer days of
the school break. I don't suppose that you can get any worse than that for
potential toxicity, but I'm still around and compos mentis, as are all my
mates who used to do the same thing.

Arfa

In article , Sam Goldwasser wrote:
"James Sweet" writes:


In my opinion, they should be outlawed world-wide. Period. Suddenly, just
as the government here in the UK looks set to ban sales of incandescents,
a movement is rearing up to bring to the attention of the great unwashed
( and the dumb politicians ) the potential hazards of using, accidentally
breaking, and safely disposing of CFLs. I sincerely hope that it gains
sufficient momentum to cast enough doubt over this dreadful knee-jerk
technology, to knock its viability as a direct replacement for
incandescents, firmly on the head ...



I don't want to see either one banned. Most any ban is a knee-jerk reaction
from politicians who know little or nothing about the subject at hand.
There's ways to encourage use of more energy efficient technology where
possible, but there are some applications where incandescent is still the
most suitable, and some climates where the waste heat they produce is not
really waste. Likewise, I feel that much of the hysteria over lead and
mercury in CFLs is unfounded, fluorescent lamps are not the only source of
mercury in the environment, and they are not impossible to recycle or
dispose of properly. I do feel that any store that sells them should accept
dead ones for recycling though, just as is the case with rechargable
batteries.

How much mercury is there in a single 40 (or 34) watt normal fluorescent
lamp? They are often tossed in the trash to break.....

First thing you hear is CFL's, and nothing about regular fluorescent lamps.
which are a dominate lamp in the world. Wonder why !!

greg

In article ,
GregS wrote:
First thing you hear is CFL's, and nothing about regular fluorescent
lamps. which are a dominate lamp in the world. Wonder why !!

Because the average tree hugger doesn't realise they are one and the same
thing when preaching how CFLs will save the planet. And missing the fact
that an 'old fashioned' fluorescent has a separate ballast which can
outlast several tubes while a CFL has it built in so has to be thrown away
complete when it fails.

--
*There are two kinds of pedestrians... the quick and the dead.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Arfa Daily wrote:

Also as a kid, I had a small pot of mercury that I had 'rescued' from a
mercury tilt switch - rather a large one - that was on some lump of junk
found on a piece of wasteland where I used to play ... Boy, do you remember
the thrill of finding some piece of mysterious 'treasure' like this on those
endless summer days ... ?

Anyway, I used to play with the stuff in my hands for hours, so it can't
have been *that* readily poisonous.

Once upon a time there used to be cheap toys that had blobs of mercury
as the "active agent." Think of a 4"/10cm square plastic maze with a
clear plastic cover; race your friends to get the mercury blob to the
center in the fastest time!

And of course, one *had* to take the mercury out to play with it. I
still recall that distinctive smell of a pool of elemental mercury.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

In article , Rich Webb wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote:

Also as a kid, I had a small pot of mercury that I had 'rescued' from a
mercury tilt switch - rather a large one - that was on some lump of junk
found on a piece of wasteland where I used to play ... Boy, do you remember
the thrill of finding some piece of mysterious 'treasure' like this on those
endless summer days ... ?

Anyway, I used to play with the stuff in my hands for hours, so it can't
have been *that* readily poisonous.

Once upon a time there used to be cheap toys that had blobs of mercury
as the "active agent." Think of a 4"/10cm square plastic maze with a
clear plastic cover; race your friends to get the mercury blob to the
center in the fastest time!

And of course, one *had* to take the mercury out to play with it. I
still recall that distinctive smell of a pool of elemental mercury.

I don't recall a smell. I once was in a storage room with shelves and a bunch of old
medical research equipment. One of the pressure measuring devices, with plenty of mercury,
fell. Of course it was all glass. Mercury all over the place. I just was happy I didn't
have to clean it. I'm talking a LOT of mercury. I used to take those mercury batteries
apart when i was a kid, and roll the mercury around with my fingers to coat a penny.

greg

I own a few very old mercury thermomenters.(I like to collect all kinds
of very old things) When I was a kid, I played with some mercury too,
mercury will shine up old coins real good.(mercury is a liquid metal) I
haven't checked the old 1940s Honeywell thermostats on two of the walls
in my old house (house was built in 1947, it has asbestos shingles on
the outside walls) lately, but I think they have mercury switches.

I owned a Daisy pump action BB gun when I was a kid.I still remember
sometimes the pump slide (whatever it's called?) action catching the
palm of my left hand in that slide.It hurt too.
cuhulin

In article , wrote:
I own a few very old mercury thermomenters.(I like to collect all kinds
of very old things) When I was a kid, I played with some mercury too,
mercury will shine up old coins real good.(mercury is a liquid metal) I
haven't checked the old 1940s Honeywell thermostats on two of the walls
in my old house (house was built in 1947, it has asbestos shingles on
the outside walls) lately, but I think they have mercury switches.

I owned a Daisy pump action BB gun when I was a kid.I still remember
sometimes the pump slide (whatever it's called?) action catching the
palm of my left hand in that slide.It hurt too.
cuhulin


I have 4 or 5 Honeywell thermostats that I have collected and had replaced
with digital. The digitals can be had much cheaper though. The Home Depot wants $40
for the old clunker. I thought it was funny when i was checking out of The Home Depot,
fellow in front was buying 4 of these thermostats for $120. I kinda mentioned I had 5, but
would have been ruff to actually sell mine.

I still have my dads old Daisy slider.

greg

Be real careful of that Daisy BB Gun slider.They know how to move fast
and pinch the daylights out of the palm of your hand.
www.daisy.com/history.html www.bbairguns.com

The two Honeywell thermostats on the walls in my house are the original
ones that were put there in 1947.They still work just as good as
new.They are rectangular shaped and have a small thermomenter on the
front of them.That was back in the days when they made them Good.
cuhulin

"GregS" wrote in message
...
In article , Sam Goldwasser
wrote:
"James Sweet" writes:


In my opinion, they should be outlawed world-wide. Period. Suddenly,
just
as the government here in the UK looks set to ban sales of
incandescents,
a movement is rearing up to bring to the attention of the great
unwashed
( and the dumb politicians ) the potential hazards of using,
accidentally
breaking, and safely disposing of CFLs. I sincerely hope that it gains
sufficient momentum to cast enough doubt over this dreadful knee-jerk
technology, to knock its viability as a direct replacement for
incandescents, firmly on the head ...



I don't want to see either one banned. Most any ban is a knee-jerk
reaction
from politicians who know little or nothing about the subject at hand.
There's ways to encourage use of more energy efficient technology where
possible, but there are some applications where incandescent is still
the
most suitable, and some climates where the waste heat they produce is
not
really waste. Likewise, I feel that much of the hysteria over lead and
mercury in CFLs is unfounded, fluorescent lamps are not the only source
of
mercury in the environment, and they are not impossible to recycle or
dispose of properly. I do feel that any store that sells them should
accept
dead ones for recycling though, just as is the case with rechargable
batteries.

How much mercury is there in a single 40 (or 34) watt normal fluorescent
lamp? They are often tossed in the trash to break.....

First thing you hear is CFL's, and nothing about regular fluorescent
lamps.
which are a dominate lamp in the world. Wonder why !!

greg

I guess it's because they are firmly fixed in overhead fittings, and the
tubes, which are uber-reliable compared to CFLs, are not much handled by
kids. On the other hand, when there are zillions of CFLs in every Joe Tow
Rag's house, there's gonna be thicko people disposing of all the dud ones
any which way, irrespective of what the Recycle Stasi dictate, and their
kids, chucking them up walls for the sport...

Arfa

wrote in message
...
Be real careful of that Daisy BB Gun slider.They know how to move fast
and pinch the daylights out of the palm of your hand.
www.daisy.com/history.html www.bbairguns.com

The two Honeywell thermostats on the walls in my house are the original
ones that were put there in 1947.They still work just as good as
new.They are rectangular shaped and have a small thermomenter on the
front of them.That was back in the days when they made them Good.
cuhulin



I've never had any sort of thermostat fail, mechanical or electronic. My
house came with an old Honeywell mechanical, it worked but I replaced it
with a programmable one that can set back at night, it dropped my heating
bill considerably and I don't have to manually mess with it.

"Arfa Daily" wrote in
:

Also as a kid, I had a small pot of mercury that I had 'rescued' from a
mercury tilt switch -

I too remember playing with mercury obtained from various sources, coating
a penny with it, and the oily feel of the coated penny.

Metallic mercury is hazardous under three circumstances: 1) when heated.
2) when a small amount of mercury is exposed to the air in the room where
you work regularly. 3) When water soluble form is present in food or
drink.

Mercury builds up in the body over time because the elimination of mercury
is very slow.

So, if you heat mercury, its high vapor pressure puts a lot of mercury
vapor into the air and you can absorb a fatal dose very quickly. If you
work in a room where mercury has been spilled, its room temperature vapor
pressure is sufficient for you to, over time, build up enough mercury to
experience toxic effects.

"The Handbook of Laboratory Safety" (CRC) has an interesting chapter on
mercury.

When I was studying chemistry in college, we had an almost fatal accident.

A student was working alone in a lab [never work alone!]. Another
student had left, leaving a beaker of Mercuric Chloride solution heating.
The water evaporated and the mercuric chloride decomposed, giving off
mercury vapor.

The student that had been working alone in the room was found, crawling out
of the lab. They got him to the hospital and started treating him
immediately for mercury poisoning.

He spent about a week in the hospital, with special chemicals being
dripped into his veins to remove the mercury from his body. He said that
the treatment felt like liquid fire being pumped into his veins. During
that time, he wished he were dead.

His first urine sample, taken after admission, had enough mercury in it
to KILL ten people.

Of course, water soluble mercury and lead compounds are much more
dangerous than metallic mercury or metallic lead as they are easier to get
into the human body.

Normal 'clearance' of mercury is on the order of a maximum of 2 mg per
day. So if you are absorbing more than that, you are building up toward a
toxic dose.

Of course, children are more sensitive to the toxic effects of heavy
metals.





--
bz

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

California wants to control your home thermostats.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/...rica/calif.php

That might happen in California, but that is never going to happen here,
not in my home.Never hatchie, G.I.!
cuhulin

Untill poor old henpecked Richard decided to fix the electricity in the
Vicor's Church on Keeping Up Apperances and blew the whole system
out.The Beer was pretty good though. www.churchangel.com
cuhulin

Two floor furnaces.My house is warm as toast.I can sleep naked if I want
to, sometimes, I do.No freezing here in the deep auld South.
cuhulin

Josh wrote:

In article , Michael A. Terrell says...

The
Vicor supplies ... had a horrible failure rate.



That's not surprising. I hate Vicor supplies.


I removed them from our approved vendor lists, even thosugh the
change required a redesign of several chassis in our product line.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Hows it going in central Florida, Terrell? I have my DD 214
too.Sgt.Mariano, Fort Hood,Texas, October 29,1965.Dudette.
www.angelfire.com/md2/Ldotvets

Page tree, about five clicks down past the picture of Riley.I am not
Riley.I am, tain.
cuhulin

bz wrote:

...
Also, I note that the package warns about possible radio frequency
interference and advises not to use near vital communications equipment.

Argh!

I am going to look for some LED lights.

I have a led flashlight, works great; but, bring it near an am radio
and it damn near wipes the band out ...

Regards,
JS

James Sweet wrote:

...
I don't want to see either one banned.
...

Right now, electricity is relatively cheap here in the USA, 10/25 cents
a KW. When that becomes closer to $1.00/KW USD you won't want them
banned ...

Regards,
JS

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
James Sweet wrote:

...
I don't want to see either one banned.
...

Right now, electricity is relatively cheap here in the USA, 10/25 cents a
KW. When that becomes closer to $1.00/KW USD you won't want them banned
...



In my corner it's more like 7.5c/KWH. I use CFLs mostly but regardless of
the cost of energy I don't want either light source banned. The economics
will encourage people to use higher efficiency lights and appliances, those
who don't will pay accordingly. I'm even ok with taxing less efficient
items, but to blanket ban a style of light bulb is stupid. I did some
calculating and even if my lights were all incandescent, the overall energy
use of my home would not change dramatically. Lighting is simply not a large
portion of the power I use. The hot tub and heat pump use more than
everything else combined by far.