Hi:

It figures that with all the Tek TDS3000 series scopes I've been using
at work for the past 8 years, that the TDS3014 I bought and paid for
with my own money at home would have the LCD screen fail!

Tek wants $1300 to fix it. There is a TDS3VM VGA output adapter for the
thing. It can be had for $200. I think I'll get it.

I could also inquire about the cost of the screen component, and
consider doing it myself. But that has the risk that it may not the
correct component. The VGA adapter, if it works, would confirm that
it's the LCD panel, but after getting the adapter I might as well just
use it and not spend any more money.

I never need it to be portable, so it's not so bad. Could actually be
advantageous, since I often look at signals from about 2m away, while
changing program code for embedded micros at my desk. Using a cheap LCD
monitor pegged to the wall might make that easier to see.

I also have an Agilent MSO6054 at work which I love. I might not buy
another Tek next time I want one at home or at work.

Anyone have any sense of which maker has more LCD or other failures in
these cheap plastic scopes these days?



P.S. Sorry to hear about Tony Williams. My heart goes out to his
family and friends.




Good day!




--
_____________________
Christopher R. Carlen

SuSE 9.1 Linux 2.6.5

"CC" wrote in message
...
Hi:

It figures that with all the Tek TDS3000 series scopes I've been using at
work for the past 8 years, that the TDS3014 I bought and paid for with my
own money at home would have the LCD screen fail!

Tek wants $1300 to fix it. There is a TDS3VM VGA output adapter for the
thing. It can be had for $200. I think I'll get it.

I could also inquire about the cost of the screen component, and consider
doing it myself. But that has the risk that it may not the correct
component. The VGA adapter, if it works, would confirm that it's the LCD
panel, but after getting the adapter I might as well just use it and not
spend any more money.

I never need it to be portable, so it's not so bad. Could actually be
advantageous, since I often look at signals from about 2m away, while
changing program code for embedded micros at my desk. Using a cheap LCD
monitor pegged to the wall might make that easier to see.

I also have an Agilent MSO6054 at work which I love. I might not buy
another Tek next time I want one at home or at work.

Anyone have any sense of which maker has more LCD or other failures in
these cheap plastic scopes these days?



P.S. Sorry to hear about Tony Williams. My heart goes out to his family
and friends.





What sort of failure? Could it be just the backlight?

ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:58:21 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:

"CC" wrote in message
...
Hi:

It figures that with all the Tek TDS3000 series scopes I've been using at
work for the past 8 years, that the TDS3014 I bought and paid for with my
own money at home would have the LCD screen fail!

Tek wants $1300 to fix it. There is a TDS3VM VGA output adapter for the
thing. It can be had for $200. I think I'll get it.

I could also inquire about the cost of the screen component, and consider
doing it myself. But that has the risk that it may not the correct
component. The VGA adapter, if it works, would confirm that it's the LCD
panel, but after getting the adapter I might as well just use it and not
spend any more money.

I never need it to be portable, so it's not so bad. Could actually be
advantageous, since I often look at signals from about 2m away, while
changing program code for embedded micros at my desk. Using a cheap LCD
monitor pegged to the wall might make that easier to see.

I also have an Agilent MSO6054 at work which I love. I might not buy
another Tek next time I want one at home or at work.

Anyone have any sense of which maker has more LCD or other failures in
these cheap plastic scopes these days?



P.S. Sorry to hear about Tony Williams. My heart goes out to his family
and friends.




What sort of failure? Could it be just the backlight?

Not only that, but is it past the warranty period?

Either way, a quote of $1300 to repair it is ludicrous.

Thanks for your replies.

When the scope is starting up, horizontal bars of varying display
contrast flicker across the screen. After a few minutes, there are only
occasional flickers, but the whole screen contrast is terrible. The
white-on-grey soft menus that are displayed for instance by the
"Quickmenu" button are barely visible.

Overall backlight appears uniform, and the low-med-high levels appear to
work correctly.

I recall hearing years ago that folks had to pay about $1200 to fix a
failed LCD. The reduced prices for LCDs obviously haven't percolated
into Teks replacement parts. There is a lesser model of color Tek scope
that I heard someone had to pay about $450 to fix.

It is well past the warranty period. I think I bought it in 2001.
Maybe I will consider extended warranty next time. But I will also give
Agilent preferential consideration!


Good day!


--
_____________________
Christopher R. Carlen

SuSE 9.1 Linux 2.6.5

CC wrote:
ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:58:21 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:

"CC" wrote in message
...
Hi:

It figures that with all the Tek TDS3000 series scopes I've been
using at work for the past 8 years, that the TDS3014 I bought and
paid for with my own money at home would have the LCD screen fail!

Tek wants $1300 to fix it. There is a TDS3VM VGA output adapter for
the thing. It can be had for $200. I think I'll get it.

I could also inquire about the cost of the screen component, and
consider doing it myself. But that has the risk that it may not the
correct component. The VGA adapter, if it works, would confirm that
it's the LCD panel, but after getting the adapter I might as well
just use it and not spend any more money.

I never need it to be portable, so it's not so bad. Could actually
be advantageous, since I often look at signals from about 2m away,
while changing program code for embedded micros at my desk. Using a
cheap LCD monitor pegged to the wall might make that easier to see.

I also have an Agilent MSO6054 at work which I love. I might not
buy another Tek next time I want one at home or at work.

Anyone have any sense of which maker has more LCD or other failures
in these cheap plastic scopes these days?



P.S. Sorry to hear about Tony Williams. My heart goes out to his
family and friends.




What sort of failure? Could it be just the backlight?
Not only that, but is it past the warranty period?

Either way, a quote of $1300 to repair it is ludicrous.

Thanks for your replies.

When the scope is starting up, horizontal bars of varying display
contrast flicker across the screen. After a few minutes, there are only
occasional flickers, but the whole screen contrast is terrible. The
white-on-grey soft menus that are displayed for instance by the
"Quickmenu" button are barely visible.

Overall backlight appears uniform, and the low-med-high levels appear to
work correctly.

I recall hearing years ago that folks had to pay about $1200 to fix a
failed LCD. The reduced prices for LCDs obviously haven't percolated
into Teks replacement parts. There is a lesser model of color Tek scope
that I heard someone had to pay about $450 to fix.

It is well past the warranty period. I think I bought it in 2001. Maybe
I will consider extended warranty next time. But I will also give
Agilent preferential consideration!


If you don't need more than 200MHz check out GW Instek. I bought one,
very nice.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Oct 27, 2:28 pm, CC wrote:
ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:58:21 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:

"CC" wrote in message
...
Hi:

It figures that with all the Tek TDS3000 series scopes I've been using at
work for the past 8 years, that the TDS3014 I bought and paid for with my
own money at home would have the LCD screen fail!

Tek wants $1300 to fix it. There is a TDS3VM VGA output adapter for the
thing. It can be had for $200. I think I'll get it.

I could also inquire about the cost of the screen component, and consider
doing it myself. But that has the risk that it may not the correct
component. The VGA adapter, if it works, would confirm that it's the LCD
panel, but after getting the adapter I might as well just use it and not
spend any more money.

I never need it to be portable, so it's not so bad. Could actually be
advantageous, since I often look at signals from about 2m away, while
changing program code for embedded micros at my desk. Using a cheap LCD
monitor pegged to the wall might make that easier to see.

I also have an Agilent MSO6054 at work which I love. I might not buy
another Tek next time I want one at home or at work.

Anyone have any sense of which maker has more LCD or other failures in
these cheap plastic scopes these days?

P.S. Sorry to hear about Tony Williams. My heart goes out to his family
and friends.

What sort of failure? Could it be just the backlight?

Not only that, but is it past the warranty period?

Either way, a quote of $1300 to repair it is ludicrous.

Thanks for your replies.

When the scope is starting up, horizontal bars of varying display
contrast flicker across the screen. After a few minutes, there are only
occasional flickers,

That sounds like a thermal fault, likely a loose
connection or bad solder joint.
Open and try heat gun or cold spray and some
wiggling. I've found 80% of faults are mechanic
it's the other 20% that suck.
Ken

but the whole screen contrast is terrible. The
white-on-grey soft menus that are displayed for instance by the
"Quickmenu" button are barely visible.

Overall backlight appears uniform, and the low-med-high levels appear to
work correctly.

I recall hearing years ago that folks had to pay about $1200 to fix a
failed LCD. The reduced prices for LCDs obviously haven't percolated
into Teks replacement parts. There is a lesser model of color Tek scope
that I heard someone had to pay about $450 to fix.

It is well past the warranty period. I think I bought it in 2001.
Maybe I will consider extended warranty next time. But I will also give
Agilent preferential consideration!

Good day!

--
_____________________
Christopher R. Carlen

SuSE 9.1 Linux 2.6.5

Joerg wrote:
If you don't need more than 200MHz check out GW Instek. I bought one,
very nice.

There's has a very attractive price. It's only missing a few nice
things about the Tek, like the logic triggers. Well, I only took a
quick look. I'm sure there's a few things. GW's has a little more
record length, though, at 25k instead of 10k for Tek.

But the Tek TDS3014 is 3x the price of Instek.

The Agilent 3000 series should have put in a 4 channel model, then they
could have seriously crimped these cheaper manufacturers. OOh, but
Agilent 3000 has only 2.5kpts. Blah!

I will probably go for an Agilent MSO6014 in a few years. Though I
could find some uses for 300MHz BW too. Just no way can afford 4
channels. I find 4ch more useful than 100MHz. My home projects are
not too demanding.

I'm also extremely interested in high-resolution scopes. This is
another reason why I like the Agilent MSO/DSO6000 series, which provide
a high-res mode which gives effectively 12-bit res. for =100us/div.

There is hope for more 12 to 16-bit scopes to appear though, and some
which already exist:

I just found this one yesterday (14-bit):

http://www.cleverscope.com/products/

Then Picoscope has 12-bitters, and used to make a 16-bit, which they
will re-make in about a year:

http://www.picotech.com/audio_spectrum_analyzer.html

Very expensive for the speed and not so hot dynamic range:

http://www.gage-applied.com/products...er_pci/16_bit/

Amazing speed for 16-bit, but not so hot dynamic range:

http://www.ztecinstruments.com/hardw.../16-bit-400-ms

The Cleverscope looks really cool as a low-budget spectrum analyzer with
it's remarkable noise floor.



--
_____________________
Christopher R. Carlen

SuSE 9.1 Linux 2.6.5

CC wrote in
:

ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:58:21 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:

"CC" wrote in message
...
Hi:

It figures that with all the Tek TDS3000 series scopes I've been
using at work for the past 8 years, that the TDS3014 I bought and
paid for with my own money at home would have the LCD screen fail!

Tek wants $1300 to fix it. There is a TDS3VM VGA output adapter for
the thing. It can be had for $200. I think I'll get it.

I could also inquire about the cost of the screen component, and
consider doing it myself. But that has the risk that it may not the
correct component. The VGA adapter, if it works, would confirm that
it's the LCD panel, but after getting the adapter I might as well
just use it and not spend any more money.

I never need it to be portable, so it's not so bad. Could actually
be advantageous, since I often look at signals from about 2m away,
while changing program code for embedded micros at my desk. Using a
cheap LCD monitor pegged to the wall might make that easier to see.

I also have an Agilent MSO6054 at work which I love. I might not
buy another Tek next time I want one at home or at work.

Anyone have any sense of which maker has more LCD or other failures
in these cheap plastic scopes these days?



P.S. Sorry to hear about Tony Williams. My heart goes out to his
family and friends.




What sort of failure? Could it be just the backlight?

Not only that, but is it past the warranty period?

Either way, a quote of $1300 to repair it is ludicrous.

Yes.
As a TEK scope nears the end of it's Long Term Product Support(LTPS)
period,Tek raises its prices on parts and service to "encourage" owners to
buy new equipment.You should check TEKs website to find the cutoff date for
your model,ASAP.


Thanks for your replies.

When the scope is starting up, horizontal bars of varying display
contrast flicker across the screen. After a few minutes, there are
only occasional flickers, but the whole screen contrast is terrible.
The white-on-grey soft menus that are displayed for instance by the
"Quickmenu" button are barely visible.

Overall backlight appears uniform, and the low-med-high levels appear
to work correctly.

I recall hearing years ago that folks had to pay about $1200 to fix a
failed LCD. The reduced prices for LCDs obviously haven't percolated
into Teks replacement parts. There is a lesser model of color Tek
scope that I heard someone had to pay about $450 to fix.

It is well past the warranty period. I think I bought it in 2001.
Maybe I will consider extended warranty next time. But I will also
give Agilent preferential consideration!


Good day!



Here's the TDS killer;
AFTER the LTPS period is up,parts will NOT be available for your scope
model,unless they share the same part number as a currently supported
scope.Only CAL service will be available after the LTPS expires.
NO exchange modules,they all go to TEKs salvage store as scrap.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Jim Yanik wrote:

CC wrote in
:


ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:58:21 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:


"CC" wrote in message
...

Hi:

It figures that with all the Tek TDS3000 series scopes I've been
using at work for the past 8 years, that the TDS3014 I bought and
paid for with my own money at home would have the LCD screen fail!

Tek wants $1300 to fix it. There is a TDS3VM VGA output adapter for
the thing. It can be had for $200. I think I'll get it.

I could also inquire about the cost of the screen component, and
consider doing it myself. But that has the risk that it may not the
correct component. The VGA adapter, if it works, would confirm that
it's the LCD panel, but after getting the adapter I might as well
just use it and not spend any more money.

I never need it to be portable, so it's not so bad. Could actually
be advantageous, since I often look at signals from about 2m away,
while changing program code for embedded micros at my desk. Using a
cheap LCD monitor pegged to the wall might make that easier to see.

I also have an Agilent MSO6054 at work which I love. I might not
buy another Tek next time I want one at home or at work.

Anyone have any sense of which maker has more LCD or other failures
in these cheap plastic scopes these days?



P.S. Sorry to hear about Tony Williams. My heart goes out to his
family and friends.




What sort of failure? Could it be just the backlight?


Not only that, but is it past the warranty period?

Either way, a quote of $1300 to repair it is ludicrous.


Yes.
As a TEK scope nears the end of it's Long Term Product Support(LTPS)
period,Tek raises its prices on parts and service to "encourage" owners to
buy new equipment.You should check TEKs website to find the cutoff date for
your model,ASAP.


Thanks for your replies.

When the scope is starting up, horizontal bars of varying display
contrast flicker across the screen. After a few minutes, there are
only occasional flickers, but the whole screen contrast is terrible.
The white-on-grey soft menus that are displayed for instance by the
"Quickmenu" button are barely visible.

Overall backlight appears uniform, and the low-med-high levels appear
to work correctly.

I recall hearing years ago that folks had to pay about $1200 to fix a
failed LCD. The reduced prices for LCDs obviously haven't percolated
into Teks replacement parts. There is a lesser model of color Tek
scope that I heard someone had to pay about $450 to fix.

It is well past the warranty period. I think I bought it in 2001.
Maybe I will consider extended warranty next time. But I will also
give Agilent preferential consideration!


Good day!




Here's the TDS killer;
AFTER the LTPS period is up,parts will NOT be available for your scope
model,unless they share the same part number as a currently supported
scope.Only CAL service will be available after the LTPS expires.
NO exchange modules,they all go to TEKs salvage store as scrap.

so, what you're saying is, it was a smart idea when I bought my chinese
knock off which works very good at a throw away price ?

--
"I'm never wrong, once i thought i was, but was mistaken"
Real Programmers Do things like this.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5

Thanks for your replies.

When the scope is starting up, horizontal bars of varying display contrast
flicker across the screen. After a few minutes, there are only occasional
flickers, but the whole screen contrast is terrible. The white-on-grey
soft menus that are displayed for instance by the "Quickmenu" button are
barely visible.

Overall backlight appears uniform, and the low-med-high levels appear to
work correctly.

I recall hearing years ago that folks had to pay about $1200 to fix a
failed LCD. The reduced prices for LCDs obviously haven't percolated into
Teks replacement parts. There is a lesser model of color Tek scope that I
heard someone had to pay about $450 to fix.

It is well past the warranty period. I think I bought it in 2001. Maybe I
will consider extended warranty next time. But I will also give Agilent
preferential consideration!



If it changes as it warms up, you might have a decent chance of tracking
down the problem with some freeze spray or a hair dryer. It was made right
around the time that the defective electrolytic capacitors made an
appearance, they would often start having problems when cold.

Jim Yanik wrote:
CC wrote in
:

ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:
Either way, a quote of $1300 to repair it is ludicrous.

Yes.
As a TEK scope nears the end of it's Long Term Product Support(LTPS)
period,Tek raises its prices on parts and service to "encourage" owners to
buy new equipment.You should check TEKs website to find the cutoff date for
your model,ASAP.

Well, the only difference it would make is that I would have to decide
now whether I ever want to fix the display.

They have perhaps encouraged me to buy new equipment--from Agilent or
another maker.

Here's the TDS killer;
AFTER the LTPS period is up,parts will NOT be available for your scope
model,unless they share the same part number as a currently supported
scope.Only CAL service will be available after the LTPS expires.
NO exchange modules,they all go to TEKs salvage store as scrap.

I wonder if Agilent and Instek do similar things?



Good day!



--
_____________________
Christopher R. Carlen

SuSE 9.1 Linux 2.6.5

James Sweet wrote:
Thanks for your replies.

When the scope is starting up, horizontal bars of varying display contrast
flicker across the screen. After a few minutes, there are only occasional
flickers, but the whole screen contrast is terrible. The white-on-grey
soft menus that are displayed for instance by the "Quickmenu" button are
barely visible.

Overall backlight appears uniform, and the low-med-high levels appear to
work correctly.

I recall hearing years ago that folks had to pay about $1200 to fix a
failed LCD. The reduced prices for LCDs obviously haven't percolated into
Teks replacement parts. There is a lesser model of color Tek scope that I
heard someone had to pay about $450 to fix.

It is well past the warranty period. I think I bought it in 2001. Maybe I
will consider extended warranty next time. But I will also give Agilent
preferential consideration!



If it changes as it warms up, you might have a decent chance of tracking
down the problem with some freeze spray or a hair dryer. It was made right
around the time that the defective electrolytic capacitors made an
appearance, they would often start having problems when cold.


Yeah, I'll try to check it out one of these weekends. I have little
time, so fixing stuff isn't very appealing. I'd rather spend my couple
hours a week learning, programming, or designing something new, and
spend money to get commercial gadgets to keep working.



--
_____________________
Christopher R. Carlen

SuSE 9.1 Linux 2.6.5

ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 23:37:56 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:



Thanks for your replies.

When the scope is starting up, horizontal bars of varying display contrast
flicker across the screen. After a few minutes, there are only occasional
flickers, but the whole screen contrast is terrible. The white-on-grey
soft menus that are displayed for instance by the "Quickmenu" button are
barely visible.

Overall backlight appears uniform, and the low-med-high levels appear to
work correctly.

I recall hearing years ago that folks had to pay about $1200 to fix a
failed LCD. The reduced prices for LCDs obviously haven't percolated into
Teks replacement parts. There is a lesser model of color Tek scope that I
heard someone had to pay about $450 to fix.

It is well past the warranty period. I think I bought it in 2001. Maybe I
will consider extended warranty next time. But I will also give Agilent
preferential consideration!



If it changes as it warms up, you might have a decent chance of tracking
down the problem with some freeze spray or a hair dryer. It was made right
around the time that the defective electrolytic capacitors made an
appearance, they would often start having problems when cold.


Except that it is more likely an interface issue than a component
issue, and the spray will likely exacerbate the problem.

It could be a wiring / contact problem. I've spend many hours trying
to get my Tek DAS9200 to boot properly and read 3.5" disks without
errors. I even bought a replacement hard drive and floppy disk. In the
end it turned out the ribbon cables went bad. A new SCSI cable and a
new floppy cable solved the problems completely.

--
Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl

CC writes:

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:58:21 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:

"CC" wrote in message
...
Hi:

It figures that with all the Tek TDS3000 series scopes I've been
using at work for the past 8 years, that the TDS3014 I bought and
paid for with my own money at home would have the LCD screen fail!


[...]


Thanks for your replies.

When the scope is starting up, horizontal bars of varying display
contrast flicker across the screen. After a few minutes, there are
only occasional flickers, but the whole screen contrast is terrible.
The white-on-grey soft menus that are displayed for instance by the
"Quickmenu" button are barely visible.

Overall backlight appears uniform, and the low-med-high levels appear
to work correctly.

Hi Chris,

I have a TDS3054 that had a badly flickering LCD, usually during
startup or when knocked. It was just a bad connection of the LCD flex
ribbon cable. Simply unplugging/replugging this cable fixed it.

Make sure you download the service manual from their web site, it
explains in great detail how to get the thing apart. (It would be
impossible otherwise but is straightforward with instructions).

--

John Devereux

ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 08:04:37 GMT, (Nico Coesel) wrote:

ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 23:37:56 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:



Thanks for your replies.

When the scope is starting up, horizontal bars of varying display contrast
flicker across the screen. After a few minutes, there are only occasional
flickers, but the whole screen contrast is terrible. The white-on-grey
soft menus that are displayed for instance by the "Quickmenu" button are
barely visible.

Overall backlight appears uniform, and the low-med-high levels appear to
work correctly.

I recall hearing years ago that folks had to pay about $1200 to fix a
failed LCD. The reduced prices for LCDs obviously haven't percolated into
Teks replacement parts. There is a lesser model of color Tek scope that I
heard someone had to pay about $450 to fix.

It is well past the warranty period. I think I bought it in 2001. Maybe I
will consider extended warranty next time. But I will also give Agilent
preferential consideration!



If it changes as it warms up, you might have a decent chance of tracking
down the problem with some freeze spray or a hair dryer. It was made right
around the time that the defective electrolytic capacitors made an
appearance, they would often start having problems when cold.


Except that it is more likely an interface issue than a component
issue, and the spray will likely exacerbate the problem.

It could be a wiring / contact problem. I've spend many hours trying
to get my Tek DAS9200 to boot properly and read 3.5" disks without
errors. I even bought a replacement hard drive and floppy disk. In the
end it turned out the ribbon cables went bad. A new SCSI cable and a
new floppy cable solved the problems completely.


What part of the meaning of the word "interface" do you not understand?

Probably somewhere between the 'i' and the 'e' :-)

Do you know how conductor elements are INTERFACED to an LCD panel?

Interface seems a wrong word here. Attached would be better. Anyway, I
fixed one of my own 19" panels. The wires coming from the TFT screen
where torn off the TFT driver PCB because the previous owner dropped
it. So I do know what a TFT screen looks like on the inside.


--
Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl

John Devereux wrote:
Hi Chris,

I have a TDS3054 that had a badly flickering LCD, usually during
startup or when knocked. It was just a bad connection of the LCD flex
ribbon cable. Simply unplugging/replugging this cable fixed it.

That's encouraging.

Make sure you download the service manual from their web site, it
explains in great detail how to get the thing apart. (It would be
impossible otherwise but is straightforward with instructions).

That's funny. A lot of things are like this.


Thanks for the reply. I'll give it a try.


Good day!
--
_____________________
Christopher R. Carlen

SuSE 9.1 Linux 2.6.5

If it changes as it warms up, you might have a decent chance of tracking
down the problem with some freeze spray or a hair dryer. It was made right
around the time that the defective electrolytic capacitors made an
appearance, they would often start having problems when cold.


Except that it is more likely an interface issue than a component
issue, and the spray will likely exacerbate the problem.

That's the point. The problem already makes the scope unusable, some freeze
spray won't break it any worse.

Yes it very well may. Since freeze spray would take the parts it hits
below the dew point in nearly any place around, it will condensate water
immediately. One thing that LCD interfaces do NOT tolerate is moisture
between the contacts, and we already mentioned that it is NOT going to be
a component in a failure mode. So where exactly do you think this freeze
spray should be pointed such that it is going to fix a problem, or show
where one is at?

It won't, put simply. NORMAL finger pressure placed onto the contactors
at the LCD interface connections will do far more toward those goals than
introducing a moisture laden failure prone procedure ever will.

Freeze spray is for zapping a suspected transistor or FET with, not a
connectivity based mechanical contact issue. There is a place and time
for every fix in electronics, and freeze sprays and low voltage LCD panel
edge connections are NEVER one of them.



Well poking and prodding often works as well, but I use freeze spray all the
time, have been for years and I've never had a problem with condensation but
then I don't live in a sauna. You don't need to hose down the whole thing
and turn it into a popsicle, just a quick shot here and there. It's great
for tracking down marginal capacitors, cracked solder joints, bad solder
under BGAs, bad connectors, anything where the problem is intermittant. When
a little squirt causes an immediate change in operation you know right where
to look.

When you fire it under a BGA, you will very likely ALWAYS see a
difference in circuit behavior. If you cannot see that fact, you have no
business being a tech, or attempting to call yourself one.

Also, ANY lab that has an RH below 30% is an ESD hazard, and an ESD
event waiting to happen... on a daily basis.

Any lab with an RH above 30%, the recommended value, BTW, WILL
condensate water on parts that have been shot with freeze spray.

It is basic physics 101, son. No sauna required. No goddamned freeze
spray required either.


Jeez what got stuck up this guy's butt? I'm not a tech, nor do I call myself
one, I'm a hobbyist doing this stuff for myself with a very good record of
fixing things others have given up on.

Removing the crossposting..

You don't spray anything *under* a BGA, just a quick shot on top does the
trick. Ludicrous it may be, but I've been using it for years and it works.
The contraction from the temperature change can cause a much more local
effect than prodding at a board with mechanical pressure, which can
sometimes distort the whole area of the board, while with the freeze spray
I'm able to narrow it down very easily. I don't care if it's the "right"
way, I just care that it works for me, and that it does. It's just one more
tool at my disposal and if it helps me solve the problem, great, if not,
well in the decade or so since I discovered it, I've yet to have it make
anything worse.

"James Sweet" wrote in
newsE9Vi.191$gl1.79@trndny09:


Yes it very well may. Since freeze spray would take the parts it
hits
below the dew point in nearly any place around, it will condensate
water immediately. One thing that LCD interfaces do NOT tolerate is
moisture between the contacts, and we already mentioned that it is
NOT going to be a component in a failure mode. So where exactly do
you think this freeze spray should be pointed such that it is going
to fix a problem, or show where one is at?

It won't, put simply. NORMAL finger pressure placed onto the
contactors at the LCD interface connections will do far more toward
those goals than introducing a moisture laden failure prone procedure
ever will.

Freeze spray is for zapping a suspected transistor or FET with, not
a
connectivity based mechanical contact issue. There is a place and
time for every fix in electronics, and freeze sprays and low voltage
LCD panel edge connections are NEVER one of them.



Well poking and prodding often works as well, but I use freeze spray
all the time, have been for years and I've never had a problem with
condensation but then I don't live in a sauna. You don't need to hose
down the whole thing and turn it into a popsicle, just a quick shot
here and there. It's great for tracking down marginal capacitors,
cracked solder joints, bad solder under BGAs, bad connectors, anything
where the problem is intermittant. When a little squirt causes an
immediate change in operation you know right where to look.




I prefer to squirt the spray on a Q-tip and put that on the suspect part.
I've seen people get into trouble using freeze spray directly,get led down
a false path.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"James Sweet" wrote in
news:8IeVi.4547$8R1.585@trndny02:




You don't spray anything *under* a BGA, just a quick shot on top does
the trick.

If you have a bad solder joint under a BGA,how do you "fix" it?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...
"James Sweet" wrote in
news:8IeVi.4547$8R1.585@trndny02:




You don't spray anything *under* a BGA, just a quick shot on top does
the trick.

If you have a bad solder joint under a BGA,how do you "fix" it?


Generally you don't, but you know to stop screwing around looking for the
problem elsewhere.

It may be possible to fix with a heat gun as a last ditch effort, but that
really could do further damage.

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 02:19:53 GMT "James Sweet"
wrote in Message id: dxwVi.4781$8R1.1562@trndny02:


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"James Sweet" wrote in
news:8IeVi.4547$8R1.585@trndny02:




You don't spray anything *under* a BGA, just a quick shot on top does
the trick.

If you have a bad solder joint under a BGA,how do you "fix" it?


Generally you don't, but you know to stop screwing around looking for the
problem elsewhere.

It may be possible to fix with a heat gun as a last ditch effort, but that
really could do further damage.

I've had some success reflowing BGAs that have fractured or poor solder
joints around their perimeter using a Hako 850 and a small nozzle which
allows me to concentrate the air just where it's needed.

JW wrote in
:

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 02:19:53 GMT "James Sweet"
wrote in Message id:
dxwVi.4781$8R1.1562@trndny02:


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
. ..
"James Sweet" wrote in
news:8IeVi.4547$8R1.585@trndny02:




You don't spray anything *under* a BGA, just a quick shot on top
does the trick.

If you have a bad solder joint under a BGA,how do you "fix" it?


Generally you don't, but you know to stop screwing around looking for
the problem elsewhere.

It may be possible to fix with a heat gun as a last ditch effort, but
that really could do further damage.

I've had some success reflowing BGAs that have fractured or poor
solder joints around their perimeter using a Hako 850 and a small
nozzle which allows me to concentrate the air just where it's needed.


it seems that the only reliable way would be to remove the BGA chip and
somehow put new solder balls and flux on all the PCB pads,then reinstall
the BGA and reflow using a preheat hot plate and hot air gun.
Never tried it,though.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On 30 Oct 2007 15:48:35 GMT Jim Yanik wrote in Message
id: :

[...]

it seems that the only reliable way would be to remove the BGA chip and
somehow put new solder balls and flux on all the PCB pads,then reinstall
the BGA and reflow using a preheat hot plate and hot air gun.
Never tried it,though.

I don't think I'd attempt it but:
http://www.finetech.de/enid/Rework__...ents _fo.html
I doubt it'd be economically feasible for the devices we use. When we have
a BGA that has failed solder joints and it can't be fixed with the Hako,
we send it out to have the chip replaced.