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Default Internal wiring of USA v UK mains plug



Spurious Response wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:38:29 -0500, Wolfi wrote:

If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampère rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?


If I do not need 16 A power feeds as a result of not having any 16 A
power requisites, then why would I need a 16 A cord and receptacle
system?


The standards aren't set around one person's requirements.

Graham


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Am 03.07.07 19.42 schrieb Spurious Response:
On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:38:29 -0500, Wolfi wrote:

If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampère rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?



If I do not need 16 A power feeds as a result of not having any 16 A
power requisites, then why would I need a 16 A cord and receptacle
system?


Because initially we had been talking about wall outlets and according plugs,
with flat (US, UK) or round (most of Central Europe) contacts and those
connectors are rated 15A/130V (US) or 16A/250V (Europe).
So when talking about alternatives, we have to stay in the same ratings range.
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Am 03.07.07 19.40 schrieb Spurious Response:
On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:38:29 -0500, Wolfi wrote:

All three pins on the other end of an IEC power cord are flat blades.

You're talking about this IEC (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309) power
connector, rated from 16A up to 250A @690VAC? ;-)
But it also uses round pins, not flat ones.



No, silly. He was talking about the STANDARD US 120V IEC cord used on
nearly everything made these days, from dongles to 70" FPDs.

http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/t...ugs.htm&ID=346


Ah, that's what I reckoned, cords with the *international* standard socket
type IEC 60320-C13 /max. 70°C/10A (and -C15 /max. 120°C/10A or max. 155°C/16A).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_connector
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ger%C3%A4testecker

And there is also our famous Euro socket for small devices according to
protection class II, the type IEC-60320-C7, which normally is the device sided
end of the 2.5A Euro wall plug we had discussed earlier on.

But they all have in common, that they provide excellent user protection
against touching of live parts *and* they all plug mechanically *into* the
counterpart with their housing, hence guiding mechanically stress away from
the contacts and into the housing.
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On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 02:31:10 GMT, Eeyore
wrote:



Spurious Response wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:38:29 -0500, Wolfi wrote:

If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampère rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?


If I do not need 16 A power feeds as a result of not having any 16 A
power requisites, then why would I need a 16 A cord and receptacle
system?


The standards aren't set around one person's requirements.

Graham

"I" was a euphemistic "I", idiot.

As in I that represents any joe sixpack homeowner.

One does not need 16 Amp per outlet capacity.
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Spurious Response wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Spurious Response wrote:
Wolfi wrote:

If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampère rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?

If I do not need 16 A power feeds as a result of not having any 16 A
power requisites, then why would I need a 16 A cord and receptacle
system?


The standards aren't set around one person's requirements.


"I" was a euphemistic "I", idiot.

As in I that represents any joe sixpack homeowner.

One does not need 16 Amp per outlet capacity.


It's widely used in Europe.

Graham




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Spurious Response wrote:
If I do not need 16 A power feeds as a result of not having any 16 A
power requisites, then why would I need a 16 A cord and receptacle
system?


For example, my 7.5 amp 230v Dyson DC-14 vaccum cleaner. The 120 volt
version draws about 15 amps.

Surprisingly, my Kenwood mixer uses 1000w (and there is a 1200w
version). which is around 5 amps at 230 volts, and would be over 10 at
120. However, it seems that such a mixer is not available in the U.S.

The Kenwood mixers sold in the U.S. are their smaller 600 watt units,
and the much loved Kitchen Aid units are 350 watts, with one that's
500w.

I seem to remember having a 12 amp or so toaster and hot water kettle in
the U.S. Ours here are 1000 watts. Things like blenders are 300 to 400
watts, which would work with a 6 or 7 amp fuse, assuming the wattage
rating is average and not peak.

A friend of mine has an HP laser printer that is rated 500 watts, but
the peak draw is 8 amps at 120 volts. The manual and printer itself say
500 watts, the 8 amps was on the web site.

I would not be very happy to use a device with an 8 amp peak draw on a
10 amp circuit. But I'm unusual in that. I always assume that
manufacturers lie (inflate output power, but ignore peak usage) when
they state current requirments and that anything that provides current
is rated for that current for a peak of a few miliseconds or less.

This is very common for transformers (which many people use here to operate
120 volt appliances brought in to avoid high taxes and huge markups) and
UPS's for computers, both of which are sold as being rated in WATTS,
but really are rated in VA which are 1.414 times as much.

Geoff.

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In article ,
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
For example, my 7.5 amp 230v Dyson DC-14 vaccum cleaner. The 120 volt
version draws about 15 amps.


That would suggest an approx 2.5 HP motor. Is it really that large, or is
that the start up current?


I seem to remember having a 12 amp or so toaster and hot water kettle in
the U.S. Ours here are 1000 watts.


A 1000 watt kettle would take forever to boil. UK ones are normally
2500/3000 watts.

--
*I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

That would suggest an approx 2.5 HP motor. Is it really that large, or is
that the start up current?


Yes, it's really that large. Dyson is a well known English brand, look it up.
The exact model is DC-14 animal.

Geoff.

--
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In article ,
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
That would suggest an approx 2.5 HP motor. Is it really that large, or
is that the start up current?


Yes, it's really that large. Dyson is a well known English brand, look
it up. The exact model is DC-14 animal.


I know what they are having fixed several. And seen many more on the
council tip. A triumph of hype over common sense.

--
*It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.

Dave Plowman London SW
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I know what they are having fixed several. And seen many more on the
council tip. A triumph of hype over common sense.


Not only is it the best engineered appliance I've ever owned, it's
the best vaccum cleaner I've ever owned. Dyson's design was so
good that Hoover stole it and was sucesfully prosecuted for
patent infringment.

It works well, and my totaly nontechnical wife can field strip it
if it gets jammed, which is almost impossible.

Geoff.


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IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
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In article ,
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
I know what they are having fixed several. And seen many more on the
council tip. A triumph of hype over common sense.


Not only is it the best engineered appliance I've ever owned, it's
the best vaccum cleaner I've ever owned. Dyson's design was so
good that Hoover stole it and was sucesfully prosecuted for
patent infringment.


It works well, and my totaly nontechnical wife can field strip it
if it gets jammed, which is almost impossible.


They also have racks of spares on sale in near any store. No other vacuum
cleaner I know of breaks down so often.

A triumph of hype over engineering.

--
*In some places, C:\ is the root of all directories *

Dave Plowman London SW
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On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 04:35:47 GMT, Eeyore
wrote:



Spurious Response wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Spurious Response wrote:
Wolfi wrote:

If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampère rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?

If I do not need 16 A power feeds as a result of not having any 16 A
power requisites, then why would I need a 16 A cord and receptacle
system?

The standards aren't set around one person's requirements.


"I" was a euphemistic "I", idiot.

As in I that represents any joe sixpack homeowner.

One does not need 16 Amp per outlet capacity.


It's widely used in Europe.

Graham


Where, at twice the voltage, you need it even less.
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John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 00:32:33 +0000 (UTC), bz
wrote:

jakdedert wrote in
:

bz wrote:
jakdedert wrote in news:e6yhi.8611$09.1625
@bignews8.bellsouth.net:

In some cases it was possible to easily rewired with grounded 12/2
romex from the breaker box. In others, where that was not practical,
the two-prongers were replaced with new outlets--also two prong.

These are still available and should be used if upgrading to a
properly grounded outlet is not done.



If an earth ground is not available, a GFI outlet should be installed
at the beginning of the run and 3 prong outlets along the rest of the
run.

The GFI will trip if a ground fault is present.

The outlets should be marked to indicate that a GFI is installed and
that no earth ground is present.

I believe that this is much safer than using 2 prong outlets and meets
code.



Yes it is, and I'm perfectly aware of the fact. OTOH, replacing with
original equipment is far more responsible than doing what most people
do: replacing with a three prong outlet and either leaving the ground to
float...or worse yet, bonding ground to neutral.

Eventually, all those two-blade outlets will be rewired properly, with
new circuits added. I've done about 25% of the house so far, but it's
slow going....


Understood. I spent quite a bit of time putting GFI's in a house we bought
and are renting out. It was built in the late 40's and expanded several
times, some grounded outlets were installed but grounds were missing on
several. Older parts of the house are on an aux breaker box.

Figuring out what fed what was fun.


Why don't houses come with schematics?

John


A lot of electricians can't read or write very well? Several times I
was called to straighten out wiring they couldn't figure out. For
instance, five overhead wires between a house and a garage, all solid
black plastic. Neutral, two Line connections, and a three way, outdoor
light with switches in the house and garage. They were dropped to
install vinyl siding, then they couldn't figure out how to reconnect the
wires. The sad part was the insulators were in a straight line at each
end, and none of the wires crossed another so it was obvious what was
wrong.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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bz wrote:

Figuring out what fed what was fun.



Try figuring out where 50+ pairs of audio cables go on a large school
intercom system, after some idiot kid rips all the wires loose, AND
removes the tags. It took two full 8 hr days.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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Wolfi wrote:


Or should you mean that type, which is used for computer monitors and -power
supplies?



That is the IEC connector. It allows different cords to be used with
the same equipment in multiple countries.


If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampère rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?



Have you ever had a desktop computer OR monitor that drew 3.68 KW?
They were designed for exactly what they are used for: Portable, low
power equipment.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida


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Spurious Response wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Spurious Response wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Spurious Response wrote:
Wolfi wrote:

If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampère rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?

If I do not need 16 A power feeds as a result of not having any 16 A
power requisites, then why would I need a 16 A cord and receptacle
system?

The standards aren't set around one person's requirements.

"I" was a euphemistic "I", idiot.

As in I that represents any joe sixpack homeowner.

One does not need 16 Amp per outlet capacity.


It's widely used in Europe.



Where, at twice the voltage, you need it even less.


There's plenty of 3kW equipment here.

Graham


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"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Wolfi wrote:

Or should you mean that type, which is used for computer monitors and -power
supplies?


That is the IEC connector. It allows different cords to be used with
the same equipment in multiple countries.

If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampère rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?


Have you ever had a desktop computer OR monitor that drew 3.68 KW?
They were designed for exactly what they are used for: Portable, low
power equipment.


They're used on highish power equipment as well..

There's a 15A version too btw.

Graham

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Wolfi wrote:

Am 02.07.07 21.35 schrieb John Larkin:
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:07:39 -0700, Spurious Response
wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:16:30 -0500, Wolfi wrote:

2 and 3 prong plugs and
receptacles not having strain relief... they don't need it. If one
remains within the specs for their use, the outlet/plug combo never sees
any particularly high mechanical stresses placed on it.
Having seen plenty of badly bent contact blades on vacuum, TV set, computer &
monitor, power drill and other shop devices' power cords, I strongly disagree.

What part of "if one remains within the specs for their use..." do you
not understand?



If it's bent so much that it's hard to plug in, just bend it back. No
big deal.

Oh yes, it easily becomes a big deal as in case of an electric floor heater.
Some moron in the past had moved it around so violently while being plugged
in, that both contacts had been bent to at least 45° off direction befor it
came out of the socket and when I tried to put them straight again, one of
them broke off. I had quite a hard time to find a screw on replacement plug.



Would you rather the plug held, and damaged the cable, so it caught on
fire when you tried to use it? It did what it was supposed to do.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:05:44 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

A 1000 watt kettle would take forever to boil. UK ones are normally
2500/3000 watts.



If you paid California electric rates, you wouldn't use it very many
times a year.

It must be nice to be able to build everything higher output, more
consumptive. We have to conserve here. Miniaturize.

What types of appliances get used in Japan? High wattage? Low?
Other places?


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On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:23:06 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

bz wrote:

Figuring out what fed what was fun.



Try figuring out where 50+ pairs of audio cables go on a large school
intercom system, after some idiot kid rips all the wires loose, AND
removes the tags. It took two full 8 hr days.



Was it a Bogen intercom? They are a division of Lear Sigler. I worked
there at one time, years ago.

Beeping out each line should have been easy.
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In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
They were designed for exactly what they are used for: Portable, low
power equipment.


They first saw the light of day as (in a slightly modified form) a kettle
connector.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
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In article ,
Spurious Response wrote:
A 1000 watt kettle would take forever to boil. UK ones are normally
2500/3000 watts.



If you paid California electric rates, you wouldn't use it very many
times a year.


I'd be surprised if your electricity prices were higher than the UK.
However, with a kettle, I doubt if the size of element makes much
difference to the cost of boiling a fixed amount of water - only to the
time taken.

It must be nice to be able to build everything higher output, more
consumptive. We have to conserve here. Miniaturize.


Really? ;-)

What types of appliances get used in Japan? High wattage? Low?
Other places?


With any appliance basically heating things it simply does the job quicker
at higher power. May even be cheaper.

--
*If you think this van is dirty, you should try having sex with the driver*

Dave Plowman London SW
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In article ,
Spurious Response wrote:
Try figuring out where 50+ pairs of audio cables go on a large school
intercom system, after some idiot kid rips all the wires loose, AND
removes the tags. It took two full 8 hr days.



Was it a Bogen intercom? They are a division of Lear Sigler. I worked
there at one time, years ago.


Beeping out each line should have been easy.


I've yet to see an unmarked multi-pair cable.

--
*He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless, dead.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
:

bz wrote:

Figuring out what fed what was fun.



Try figuring out where 50+ pairs of audio cables go on a large school
intercom system, after some idiot kid rips all the wires loose, AND
removes the tags. It took two full 8 hr days.


Bet you got a 'buzz' out of that.




--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap


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Am 03.07.07 22.52 schrieb Spurious Response:
On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 02:31:10 GMT, Eeyore
wrote:


Spurious Response wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:38:29 -0500, Wolfi wrote:

If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampère rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?
If I do not need 16 A power feeds as a result of not having any 16 A
power requisites, then why would I need a 16 A cord and receptacle
system?

The standards aren't set around one person's requirements.

Graham

"I" was a euphemistic "I", idiot.

As in I that represents any joe sixpack homeowner.

One does not need 16 Amp per outlet capacity.


Good luck plugging in a switchable 1200/1500W electric room heater, when 1200W
just don't warm enough or a fix power 1350W type or a decent µ-wave.with 1kW
or 1.1kW *output* power, sucking about 1.5kW out of the wall.
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Where, at twice the voltage, you need it even less.


There's plenty of 3kW equipment here.

Graham



How about we quit feeding the troll, and quit crossposting as well.


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On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 14:04:20 -0700, the renowned Spurious Response
wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 04:35:47 GMT, Eeyore
wrote:



Spurious Response wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Spurious Response wrote:
Wolfi wrote:

If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampère rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?

If I do not need 16 A power feeds as a result of not having any 16 A
power requisites, then why would I need a 16 A cord and receptacle
system?

The standards aren't set around one person's requirements.

"I" was a euphemistic "I", idiot.

As in I that represents any joe sixpack homeowner.

One does not need 16 Amp per outlet capacity.


It's widely used in Europe.

Graham


Where, at twice the voltage, you need it even less.


Who wants to be forced to use a puny 1500W appliance such as an
electric kettle?

3,000W gets the job done fast.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
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Spurious Response wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

A 1000 watt kettle would take forever to boil. UK ones are normally
2500/3000 watts.


If you paid California electric rates, you wouldn't use it very many
times a year.


What are those rates ?

Graham

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On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 23:55:05 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Spurious Response wrote:
Try figuring out where 50+ pairs of audio cables go on a large school
intercom system, after some idiot kid rips all the wires loose, AND
removes the tags. It took two full 8 hr days.



Was it a Bogen intercom? They are a division of Lear Sigler. I worked
there at one time, years ago.


Beeping out each line should have been easy.


I've yet to see an unmarked multi-pair cable.



It may have been individual twisted pair runs to each room.


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Spurious Response writes:

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:05:44 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

A 1000 watt kettle would take forever to boil. UK ones are normally
2500/3000 watts.



If you paid California electric rates, you wouldn't use it very many
times a year.


It takes the same amount of energy to boil a quantity of water whether
you're using a 1 kW or 3 kW kettle. Infact it would probably take less
energy with the 3kW kettle as it gets the job done quicker, which
means less losses.


It must be nice to be able to build everything higher output, more
consumptive. We have to conserve here. Miniaturize.


Agreed, but you can't really save on a kettle, unless you switch to
some alternate energy source.


What types of appliances get used in Japan? High wattage? Low?
Other places?


Not an appliance, and in Sweden, not Japan, but I have lowered my
hosehold energy consumption from 40+ MWh annually to around 18 by
converting from direct electrical heating to a rock heat pump, and
paying attention to the consumption of appliances.

I have a 200 m drilled collector in my back yard that feeds the heat
pump. The collector is also used as a source (drain?) for cooling in
the summer. One only needs to pump the +8° brine coming from the
collector through a few convectors, no need to run any compressor.

I'm currently installing the air conditioning parts of the system,
which when finished will provide about 10 kW of cooling power for about
300 W of input power to run a brine pump and the fans in the
convectors. Theoretically it will also warm up the collector slightly,
which improves winter operation, but that is marginal, if any.

Oh, and while were talking about electrical systems, domestic feeds in
Sweden are almost universally 400V three phase.

My main fuses are 25A. When we bought the house in 1987 it had 20A
fuses, and electrical heating. One of the main fuses would
occasionally trip in the winter when the washer and stove was used,
while the radiators were running on full blast. Switching to 25A fuses
solved that. After the heatpump conversion I can most likely go back
to 20A fuses and save some on the electrical bill.

When we bought the house, the stove, washer, dryer, boiler and sauna
were all wired for three phase 400V operation. The radiators were 400V
two phase. The new washer and dryer are single phase 230V units, and
we've ripped out the sauna and the heatpump produces the hot water, so
the stove and heatpump are the only remaining three phase consumers.
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Spurious Response wrote:

If you paid California electric rates, you wouldn't use it very many
times a year.


Apart from the fact that the energy used in a more powerful kettle is
slightly less, the rates in California appear to be about 12-15c/kWhr,
compared with my UK rate of 9p (~18c). The big difference in costs here
is that the climate is such that we don't need (and most of us don't
have) air- conditioning.

Paul Burke

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On 3 Jul, 19:05, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:
On 2 Jul, 16:45, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:


Who cares? I unplug and plug in items that are turned on all the
time, worst case you get a little spark, it doesn't cause any
problems. It's not hot enough to pit the plug prongs or contacts.
Its well known that repeated small sparks make a total mess of the
contact surface. This was one of the problems of our olf round pin
system half a century ago.


You'd have to explain that. Most of the old round pin sockets were
switched - unswitched was a short lived fashion with 13 amp stuff. At
least in my experience.


The old round pin sockets were far more likely to be overloaded,
though.

Round pin systems did not consistently have good contact arrangement,
leading to frequent bad connections between plug & socket, producing
the same type of damage as occurs with unswitched sockets.


I'd say it depended on the quality of the fitting


The problem is transmittable, thus only one bad socket was needed for
the problem to occur and spread to the others. So good sockets went
down too.

The way it occurs is one bad contact occurs, the plug pins get
damaged, and when damaged pins are inserted into a good socket, bad
contact occurs due to copper oxide and a rough surface. So the good
socket is damaged. Plug something else into it, that plug gets damaged
etc.

Slow process, but have seen it happen. AFAIK its the only electrically
transmissible disease


- given most plug/socket
arrangements have round pins. Including the heavy duty BS4343 type.


Nowt wrong with round pins. The problem is that some of the older
sockets didnt implement contact springing, either at all or
effectively. Sometimes the split plug pin was the only sprung part,
which is no good at all on 15A 3 pin plugs.


NT

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On 4 Jul, 22:59, Spurious Response
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:05:44 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
A 1000 watt kettle would take forever to boil. UK ones are normally
2500/3000 watts.


If you paid California electric rates, you wouldn't use it very many
times a year.

It must be nice to be able to build everything higher output, more
consumptive. We have to conserve here. Miniaturize.


Wrong way round. A 3kW kettle takes less energy to boil a given amount
of water, not more. The energy required to heat the water (and nothing
else) is the same regardless of power, but the heat losses are larger
with a 1kW kettle, since it takes apx 3x as long, losing about 3x as
much heat to the air.


NT

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Default Internal wiring of USA v UK mains plug

Thomas Tornblom wrote in :

Switching to 25A fuses
solved that. After the heatpump conversion I can most likely go back
to 20A fuses and save some on the electrical bill.


How would going to 20A fuses save some on the electric bill?



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please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

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bz writes:

Thomas Tornblom wrote in :

Switching to 25A fuses
solved that. After the heatpump conversion I can most likely go back
to 20A fuses and save some on the electrical bill.


How would going to 20A fuses save some on the electric bill?


There are two parts to the bill, one consumption part, which obviosuly
is not affected by this, and then a fixed part, which is dependent on
the installed main fuse. The weaker the fuse, the less the fixed part
is.

When we moved in there was different tariffs for 16, 20, 25, 35A, but
after a few years they dropped the 16 and 20 A tariffs. Now they are
reinstating them.

It will increase the fixed part by about $150 a year, which is not
enough for me to bother. I rather not have to get out and replace
blown fuses. :-)




--
bz 73 de N5BZ k


Thomas
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Default Internal wiring of USA v UK mains plug

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 09:05:33 +0100, Paul Burke
wrote:

Spurious Response wrote:

If you paid California electric rates, you wouldn't use it very many
times a year.


Apart from the fact that the energy used in a more powerful kettle is
slightly less, the rates in California appear to be about 12-15c/kWhr,
compared with my UK rate of 9p (~18c). The big difference in costs here
is that the climate is such that we don't need (and most of us don't
have) air- conditioning.

Paul Burke


We pay a sliding scale for electricity here in San Francisco, from
about 10 cents to as much as 22, nonlinear on consumption, to
encourage saving. But we gat our heat and cooking from natural gas,
and don't have a/c. At 7 AM, July 5, the forced-air heat is on. We pay
more for gas than for electricity, maybe $200 a month total for both.

John

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Default Internal wiring of USA v UK mains plug

bz wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
:

bz wrote:

Figuring out what fed what was fun.



Try figuring out where 50+ pairs of audio cables go on a large school
intercom system, after some idiot kid rips all the wires loose, AND
removes the tags. It took two full 8 hr days.


Bet you got a 'buzz' out of that.




Actually, all the speakers were 25 volt line, so I used a McMartin
background music receiver to find the speakers


--
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prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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Spurious Response wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:23:06 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

bz wrote:

Figuring out what fed what was fun.



Try figuring out where 50+ pairs of audio cables go on a large school
intercom system, after some idiot kid rips all the wires loose, AND
removes the tags. It took two full 8 hr days.


Was it a Bogen intercom? They are a division of Lear Sigler. I worked
there at one time, years ago.



Dukane


Beeping out each line should have been easy.



Some of the speakers were over 1000' from that junction box and down
multiple turns in the hallways.


--
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prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Spurious Response wrote:
Try figuring out where 50+ pairs of audio cables go on a large school
intercom system, after some idiot kid rips all the wires loose, AND
removes the tags. It took two full 8 hr days.


Was it a Bogen intercom? They are a division of Lear Sigler. I worked
there at one time, years ago.


Beeping out each line should have been easy.


I've yet to see an unmarked multi-pair cable.



Where did I say it was multi-pair? I said that it was over 50
pairs. Shielded multi-pair audio cables wasn't being used for school
intercoms when this system was built, and the architect's specs called
for stranded 22 AWG Alpha twisted pair, shielded cable with a plastic
jacket. If it was multi-pair, there would be no need to tag the
individual pairs, would there?

I DID use 66 series 25 pair terminal blocks to rewire that cabinet,
so you could flip out a couple bridging clips to troubleshoot the
wiring.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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