On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:51:20 -0400, "Zephyr" an address @ some place
..com wrote:

Hey folks,

I'm curious about power consumption of things like the power supply for my
dell laptop
its and AC/DC adaptor, and when the unit is charging my laptop it gets quite
warm.
from that I infer that its using a fair amount of power.

now, if I leave it plugged into the wall, but remove the laptop, it does
not heat up, but.
there is a little light on it that indicates it is receiving power.
aside from that little light, is it using any significant amount of power?
The label on the unit says the input is 1.5a

same question goes for my cell phone chargers 0.2a

I understand that some of these things do use power constantly, but... how
much?

Good question. Not only the ones with wall warts, those black
"adaptor" boxes that plug into the wall with a cord coming out of
them, but many radios etc. with the transformers inside, have no
switch in the primary of the power transformer, and they are ON all
the time.

For electronic reasons I don't well understand, when there is no
current in the secondary of a transformer, there is higher impedance
in the primary of the transformer, so less current flows even through
the primary. The heat one can feel, that you feel, the waste heat
would be iiac the same percentage of energy used, as when the device
is running and there is current through the secondary.

From your touch, it sounds like the current is a lot lower, but otoh,
it's on all the time if the thing is plugged in, even for things that
are only used an hour a year.

Does anyone know what the percentage is, or how much these things use
when off?

xposted to sci.electronics.repair

I found this link but it doesn't get into the Nitti gritty I was looking
for

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/c...act-181497.php

Dave

On Jun 13, 10:53 pm, mm wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:51:20 -0400, "Zephyr" an address @ some place





.com wrote:
Hey folks,

I'm curious about power consumption of things like the power supply for my
dell laptop
its and AC/DC adaptor, and when the unit is charging my laptop it gets quite
warm.
from that I infer that its using a fair amount of power.

now, if I leave it plugged into the wall, but remove the laptop, it does
not heat up, but.
there is a little light on it that indicates it is receiving power.
aside from that little light, is it using any significant amount of power?
The label on the unit says the input is 1.5a

same question goes for my cell phone chargers 0.2a

I understand that some of these things do use power constantly, but... how
much?

Good question. Not only the ones with wall warts, those black
"adaptor" boxes that plug into the wall with a cord coming out of
them, but many radios etc. with the transformers inside, have no
switch in the primary of the power transformer, and they are ON all
the time.

For electronic reasons I don't well understand, when there is no
current in the secondary of a transformer, there is higher impedance
in the primary of the transformer, so less current flows even through
the primary. The heat one can feel, that you feel, the waste heat
would be iiac the same percentage of energy used, as when the device
is running and there is current through the secondary.

From your touch, it sounds like the current is a lot lower, but otoh,
it's on all the time if the thing is plugged in, even for things that
are only used an hour a year.

Does anyone know what the percentage is, or how much these things use
when off?

xposted to sci.electronics.repair





I found this link but it doesn't get into the Nitti gritty I was looking
for

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/c...mpire-slayer-a...

Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, there's been a lot of discussion on this. Essentially, when
there's no load on the phone charger or other appliance, it's like
having an inductance across the power line of your house. There will
be some very small current flow, but only because it's not a perfect
inductance. All of the energy used in these wall transformers when
they're just idling is dissipated in the form of heat in their black
plastic case, so you can get an idea of how much power they're using
by just feeling them. It's not really very much. Note that you'll
have a tough time measuring the power drain with a multimeter, because
both current and voltage will show rather high readings. But since
they're almost 1/4 cycle out of phase, there's almost no power being
dissipated, and only a good power meter will take this into account.
(This problem is the basis for a lot of free energy claims, you'll be
happy to note.)

In general, wall transformers aren't a big deal.

M Kinsler

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:51:20 -0400, "Zephyr" an address @ some place
.com wrote:

Hey folks,

I'm curious about power consumption of things like the power supply for my
dell laptop
its and AC/DC adaptor, and when the unit is charging my laptop it gets
quite
warm.
from that I infer that its using a fair amount of power.

now, if I leave it plugged into the wall, but remove the laptop, it does
not heat up, but.
there is a little light on it that indicates it is receiving power.
aside from that little light, is it using any significant amount of
power?
The label on the unit says the input is 1.5a

same question goes for my cell phone chargers 0.2a

I understand that some of these things do use power constantly, but... how
much?

Good question. Not only the ones with wall warts, those black
"adaptor" boxes that plug into the wall with a cord coming out of
them, but many radios etc. with the transformers inside, have no
switch in the primary of the power transformer, and they are ON all
the time.

For electronic reasons I don't well understand, when there is no
current in the secondary of a transformer, there is higher impedance
in the primary of the transformer, so less current flows even through
the primary. The heat one can feel, that you feel, the waste heat
would be iiac the same percentage of energy used, as when the device
is running and there is current through the secondary.

From your touch, it sounds like the current is a lot lower, but otoh,
it's on all the time if the thing is plugged in, even for things that
are only used an hour a year.

Does anyone know what the percentage is, or how much these things use
when off?



You can pick up a gadget called a Kill A Watt and other similar devices for
under 30 bucks. It's a pretty impressive power analyzer, the wonders of
modern technology. Pick up one of those and you can find out how much power
anything in the house draws, as well as the power factor, cumulative
consumption, etc. I have one and love it.

Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" wrote:
Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

I believe that it has to do with the idea that a vampire is something
of a parasite, living as he or she does on the blood or electric
current of the host. It's one of those imprecise terms up with which
we all must put.

M Kinsler

okay, _you_ try to match wits with Winston Spencer C.

m kinsler wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" wrote:
Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list
onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

I believe that it has to do with the idea that a vampire is something
of a parasite, living as he or she does on the blood or electric
current of the host. It's one of those imprecise terms up with which
we all must put.

M Kinsler

okay, _you_ try to match wits with Winston Spencer C.


So is Vampire = Wall Wart another term to add to my USA/UK (2 nations
divided by a common language) file ?
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm
If anyone, reading this, is aware of any other tool/technical terms in US or
UK, my real email address is spelt out on the URL below

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:27:12 +0100, "N Cook"
wrote:

So is Vampire = Wall Wart another term to add to my USA/UK (2 nations
divided by a common language) file ?
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm
If anyone, reading this, is aware of any other tool/technical terms in US or
UK, my real email address is spelt out on the URL below

From my understanding of the term, a vampire device is any one that
continues to draw power even when in the 'off' state. This would
include devices powered by a 'wall-wart', devices with a built-in
clock, devices that are powered on/off by a remote control (the
circuit that receives from the remote needs power all the time), etc.

So they would include most microwave ovens (the clock), TVs, VCRs,
DVD players/recorders, DVRs, personal computers, etc.

"N Cook" wrote in message
...
m kinsler wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" wrote:
Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list
onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

I believe that it has to do with the idea that a vampire is something
of a parasite, living as he or she does on the blood or electric
current of the host. It's one of those imprecise terms up with which
we all must put.

M Kinsler

okay, _you_ try to match wits with Winston Spencer C.


So is Vampire = Wall Wart another term to add to my USA/UK (2 nations
divided by a common language) file ?
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm
If anyone, reading this, is aware of any other tool/technical terms in US
or
UK, my real email address is spelt out on the URL below



It's a term used mostly by the solar/wind guys running houses off-grid. It
refers to any device which draws power even in the off state, regardless of
the sort of power supply.

James Sweet wrote in message
news:Gbjci.13139$%H5.1612@trndny03...

"N Cook" wrote in message
...
m kinsler wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" wrote:
Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of
the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)



It's a term used mostly by the solar/wind guys running houses off-grid. It
refers to any device which draws power even in the off state, regardless
of
the sort of power supply.



There does not seem to be an equivalent recognised UK term for this, any
limies/pomms know any different ?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

In message , N Cook
writes
James Sweet wrote in message
news:Gbjci.13139$%H5.1612@trndny03...

"N Cook" wrote in message
...
m kinsler wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" wrote:
Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of
the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)



It's a term used mostly by the solar/wind guys running houses off-grid. It
refers to any device which draws power even in the off state, regardless
of
the sort of power supply.



There does not seem to be an equivalent recognised UK term for this, any
limies/pomms know any different ?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/



I'd never heard it until it appeared here (about a week ago?). If you
have to have a term to describe such power supplies, it's quite a good
one. However, it's just one more step down the road where words don't
actually mean what they say (most of which seem to originate in the
USA).
Ian.
--

Hi,

On some of these smaller power supplies there is no transformer at
all! I.E. no primary and secondary. They do have an inductor that is
used to step down the power and rely on a Thysistor (aka. electronic
switch) to turn on an off very fast. Usually 60 times a second (ac
mains frequency). The voltage regulation is dependent on the amount of
time the switch is on during the power cycle.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_mode_power_supply

One nice thing about this is that they can adapt to many mains
voltages and mains frequency. Hence for laptop computers you only need
one "International" power brik like supply.

Warmest regards, Mike.

Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , N Cook
writes

James Sweet wrote in message
news:Gbjci.13139$%H5.1612@trndny03...


"N Cook" wrote in message
...
m kinsler wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" wrote:
Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)

snip
I had not heard of this usage regarding power consumption until this
thread, however 'vampire tap' in electronic parlance refers to
a piercing type of cable connector, most often a coaxial connector
used in Ethernet 10base5 wiring.


I'd never heard it until it appeared here (about a week ago?). If you
have to have a term to describe such power supplies, it's quite a good
one. However, it's just one more step down the road where words don't
actually mean what they say (most of which seem to originate in the USA).
Ian.

....hmmm, I never cease to be amazed by the Brits' continual misuse of
case in referring to companies (in usenet postings) in the plural instead
of the singular, e.g. "Hewlett Packard have a new line of servers" instead
of "Hewlett Packard has a new line of servers".

Regards,

Michael

In message , msg
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:

snip


I'd never heard it until it appeared here (about a week ago?). If you
have to have a term to describe such power supplies, it's quite a good
one. However, it's just one more step down the road where words don't
actually mean what they say (most of which seem to originate in the
USA).
Ian.

I had not heard of this usage regarding power consumption until this
thread, however 'vampire tap' in electronic parlance refers to
a piercing type of cable connector, most often a coaxial connector
used in Ethernet 10base5 wiring.

...hmmm, I never cease to be amazed by the Brits' continual misuse of
case in referring to companies (in usenet postings) in the plural instead
of the singular, e.g. "Hewlett Packard have a new line of servers" instead
of "Hewlett Packard has a new line of servers".

Regards,

Michael


Hey! You are right about the 'vampire tap'.

I'm in the CATV industry, and I've just remembered that, many years ago,
I did see reference to 'vampire taps' as being the latest and greatest
for coaxial ethernet. That took me back to the early 1960s, when similar
tap devices were manufactured in the UK (by Thorn, I think). I may still
have one somewhere. Nasty things!

Re the British incorrect use of plurals when referring to companies (or,
indeed, any group), yes, this is very common, eg the 'government are',
'the team are' etc. However, being grammatically correct does sometimes
grate a little. Maybe the Americans are not totally to blame for this
sad world we live in. But, of course, we always (correctly) say 'maths'
(for mathematics).

Ian.

--

Ian Jackson wrote in message
...
In message , msg
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:

snip


I'd never heard it until it appeared here (about a week ago?). If you
have to have a term to describe such power supplies, it's quite a good
one. However, it's just one more step down the road where words don't
actually mean what they say (most of which seem to originate in the
USA).
Ian.

I had not heard of this usage regarding power consumption until this
thread, however 'vampire tap' in electronic parlance refers to
a piercing type of cable connector, most often a coaxial connector
used in Ethernet 10base5 wiring.

...hmmm, I never cease to be amazed by the Brits' continual misuse of
case in referring to companies (in usenet postings) in the plural instead
of the singular, e.g. "Hewlett Packard have a new line of servers"
instead
of "Hewlett Packard has a new line of servers".

Regards,

Michael


Hey! You are right about the 'vampire tap'.

I'm in the CATV industry, and I've just remembered that, many years ago,
I did see reference to 'vampire taps' as being the latest and greatest
for coaxial ethernet. That took me back to the early 1960s, when similar
tap devices were manufactured in the UK (by Thorn, I think). I may still
have one somewhere. Nasty things!

Re the British incorrect use of plurals when referring to companies (or,
indeed, any group), yes, this is very common, eg the 'government are',
'the team are' etc. However, being grammatically correct does sometimes
grate a little. Maybe the Americans are not totally to blame for this
sad world we live in. But, of course, we always (correctly) say 'maths'
(for mathematics).

Ian.

--


I never hear the royal "we" but I'm often forced to hear reference to the
football "we" all the time. As in "we were robbed" mouthed by people who
haven't kicked a ball since they were kids.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

On Jun 13, 11:25 pm, m kinsler wrote:
On Jun 13, 10:53 pm, mm wrote:





On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:51:20 -0400, "Zephyr" an address @ some place

.com wrote:
Hey folks,

I'm curious about power consumption of things like the power supply for my
dell laptop
its and AC/DC adaptor, and when the unit is charging my laptop it gets quite
warm.
from that I infer that its using a fair amount of power.

now, if I leave it plugged into the wall, but remove the laptop, it does
not heat up, but.
there is a little light on it that indicates it is receiving power.
aside from that little light, is it using any significant amount of power?
The label on the unit says the input is 1.5a

same question goes for my cell phone chargers 0.2a

I understand that some of these things do use power constantly, but... how
much?

Good question. Not only the ones with wall warts, those black
"adaptor" boxes that plug into the wall with a cord coming out of
them, but many radios etc. with the transformers inside, have no
switch in the primary of the power transformer, and they are ON all
the time.

For electronic reasons I don't well understand, when there is no
current in the secondary of a transformer, there is higher impedance
in the primary of the transformer, so less current flows even through
the primary. The heat one can feel, that you feel, the waste heat
would be iiac the same percentage of energy used, as when the device
is running and there is current through the secondary.

From your touch, it sounds like the current is a lot lower, but otoh,
it's on all the time if the thing is plugged in, even for things that
are only used an hour a year.

Does anyone know what the percentage is, or how much these things use
when off?

xposted to sci.electronics.repair

I found this link but it doesn't get into the Nitti gritty I was looking
for

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/c...mpire-slayer-a...

Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, there's been a lot of discussion on this. Essentially, when
there's no load on the phone charger or other appliance, it's like
having an inductance across the power line of your house. There will
be some very small current flow, but only because it's not a perfect
inductance. All of the energy used in these wall transformers when
they're just idling is dissipated in the form of heat in their black
plastic case, so you can get an idea of how much power they're using
by just feeling them. It's not really very much. Note that you'll
have a tough time measuring the power drain with a multimeter, because
both current and voltage will show rather high readings. But since
they're almost 1/4 cycle out of phase, there's almost no power being
dissipated, and only a good power meter will take this into account.
(This problem is the basis for a lot of free energy claims, you'll be
happy to note.)

In general, wall transformers aren't a big deal.

And don't forget, in winter you don't mind a little heat radiating, so
there really is no waste, unless you have them plugged in the attic or
something.

On Jun 14, 11:27 am, "N Cook" wrote:
m kinsler wrote in message

ups.com... On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" wrote:
Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list

onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/



I believe that it has to do with the idea that a vampire is something
of a parasite, living as he or she does on the blood or electric
current of the host. It's one of those imprecise terms up with which
we all must put.

M Kinsler

okay, _you_ try to match wits with Winston Spencer C.

So is Vampire = Wall Wart another term to add to my USA/UK (2 nations
divided by a common language) file ?http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm
If anyone, reading this, is aware of any other tool/technical terms in US or
UK, my real email address is spelt out on the URL below

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

"A vampire is a-a cell deal you can plug in th' wall to charge your
cell phone."
-George Bush, Denver, Aug. 14, 2001

z wrote:
On Jun 14, 11:27 am, "N Cook" wrote:
m kinsler wrote in message

ups.com... On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" wrote:
Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)
--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list
onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/



I believe that it has to do with the idea that a vampire is something
of a parasite, living as he or she does on the blood or electric
current of the host. It's one of those imprecise terms up with which
we all must put.
M Kinsler
okay, _you_ try to match wits with Winston Spencer C.
So is Vampire = Wall Wart another term to add to my USA/UK (2 nations
divided by a common language) file ?http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm
If anyone, reading this, is aware of any other tool/technical terms in US or
UK, my real email address is spelt out on the URL below

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

"A vampire is a-a cell deal you can plug in th' wall to charge your
cell phone."
-George Bush, Denver, Aug. 14, 2001


Could the vampire thing relating to cable piercing connectors originally
have come from festoon lighting lamp holders as used on fairgrounds etc.
where two sharp spikes (fangs) pierce the insulation of flat twin cable
to provide power to the lamp holder?

RonUK

Ian Jackson wrote:


I'm in the CATV industry, and I've just remembered that, many years ago,
I did see reference to 'vampire taps' as being the latest and greatest
for coaxial ethernet. That took me back to the early 1960s, when similar
tap devices were manufactured in the UK (by Thorn, I think). I may still
have one somewhere. Nasty things!


They were real low grade ****. They were replaced by backmatched
taps when systems were extended past the original 12 channel systems in
the US. They caused mismatch problems, and wasted a lot of the signal
on the trunklines or feeders. They worked, more or less on systems with
just a few channels, and very few customers, but them, those people were
already used to ghosting and snow. They had all been pulled from the 17
systems around Ft Rucker by 1972, including a couple short haul feeds
that only had a couple channels.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

In message , Michael A. Terrell
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:


I'm in the CATV industry, and I've just remembered that, many years ago,
I did see reference to 'vampire taps' as being the latest and greatest
for coaxial ethernet. That took me back to the early 1960s, when similar
tap devices were manufactured in the UK (by Thorn, I think). I may still
have one somewhere. Nasty things!


They were real low grade ****. They were replaced by backmatched
taps when systems were extended past the original 12 channel systems in
the US. They caused mismatch problems, and wasted a lot of the signal
on the trunklines or feeders. They worked, more or less on systems with
just a few channels, and very few customers, but them, those people were
already used to ghosting and snow. They had all been pulled from the 17
systems around Ft Rucker by 1972, including a couple short haul feeds
that only had a couple channels.


Equally bad on ethernet I expect? Also, does ethernet require them to be
non-directional (ie just resistive tap-offs, with no directional
coupler)?
Ian.
--

On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 09:00:18 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:



I'd never heard it until it appeared here (about a week ago?). If you
have to have a term to describe such power supplies, it's quite a good
one. However, it's just one more step down the road where words don't
actually mean what they say (most of which seem to originate in the
USA).

England has loads of slang that the USA doesn't use. Most of which
we've never heard. Ask about this on alt.english.usage and the
English posters there can give you lots of stuff.

I think you are in the position I'm in in our respective countries,
knowing few or no people who recent slang. Old slang doesn't capture
our attention because we know what it means.

Ian.
--

Ian Jackson writes:

Equally bad on ethernet I expect? Also, does ethernet require them to be
non-directional (ie just resistive tap-offs, with no directional
coupler)?

Ethernet required a direct connection to the conductor of the cable, if
I remember correctly. The receiver side was high impedance, so it
didn't present a significant load to the signal, and the vampire tap was
designed to create only a small hole through the shield and inner
dielectric so it wouldn't produce much of an impedance bump. Plus the
cable was marked with rings to indicate where you could put a tap
without having multiple taps end up a multiple of a wavelength apart.

When transmitting, an Ethernet transceiver acted as a current source,
putting a fair bit of current into the 25 ohm load (50 ohm cable heading
off in each of 2 directions). If two transceivers decided to transmit
at the same time, the high DC level on the cable was used to detect a
collision.

Original Ethernet used a baseband signal, and on a moderate-sized
network every station listened to every other one directly. There's no
"head end" to echo upstream signals back downstream again. There's no
notion of "upstream" and "downstream".

Dave

Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , Michael A. Terrell
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:


I'm in the CATV industry, and I've just remembered that, many years ago,
I did see reference to 'vampire taps' as being the latest and greatest
for coaxial ethernet. That took me back to the early 1960s, when similar
tap devices were manufactured in the UK (by Thorn, I think). I may still
have one somewhere. Nasty things!


Here, they were called "Stinger taps" and I had an unused tap block and
stinger, along with the strand clamp and drop hook in my toolbox, until
at least 2001. It might still be around, but I haven't used that toolbox
in so many years that i don't remember. I brought it home the day i was
laid off, then I was declared disabled, and unable to work, so it has
been under one of my benches here at home, ever since.


They were real low grade ****. They were replaced by backmatched
taps when systems were extended past the original 12 channel systems in
the US. They caused mismatch problems, and wasted a lot of the signal
on the trunklines or feeders. They worked, more or less on systems with
just a few channels, and very few customers, but them, those people were
already used to ghosting and snow. They had all been pulled from the 17
systems around Ft Rucker by 1972, including a couple short haul feeds
that only had a couple channels.


Equally bad on ethernet I expect? Also, does ethernet require them to be
non-directional (ie just resistive tap-offs, with no directional
coupler)?


Actually, there are two types of coaxial networking that used 75 ohm
cable. The simple, small network like Dave describes below witch were
non directional, and one that is usually part of a community loop where
pairs of one forward channel, and one return channel are used for data,
with a heterodyne signal processor at the headend to upconvert the
return channel to a forward channel witch is built with back matched
taps.

This system predates the current cable modems, but used standard, off
the shelf CATV components to build a private WAN along with the RF
modems. Some were mixed systems, of RF fed to clusters of the simpler
coaxial networking. The first system like that I heard about was the
Ohio State University campus in the '70s or early '80s. Their private
CATV system connected all the buildings, then tied the existing, smaller
networks together. I met two of their IT people at a hamfest, and they
were bragging about their design, till I told them about the systems I
maintained for the US army, years earlier. There was no return channel
equipment on the market, so we had a pair of 12 channel 'Vicoa' (Later
called Coral) systems set up as forward and return to carry the weather
data from an airfield to the main base where it added to the other nine
forward channels that fed the classrooms and airfield ready rooms.

We also built the first emergency alert system into a CATV system
that took control of the civilian CATV service to the barracks and on
base housing. A custom made coaxial relay was added to the existing
system to seize control of the private system. The ETV studio was 12
channel, like the civilian system. A toggle switch (with a hinged cover
and a lead seal) would feed the same audio and video to all 12
modulators, and switch the remote relay so an alert could be spread, no
matter what channel a TV was on. After we proved the concept, it
quickly spread to other bases, and new builds of civilian systems. The
last system I maintained was a 36 channel RCA headend, in the early
'80s. It had the optional IF loop through and auxiliary IF input for
the alert system. The Audio and video was fed through a separate
modulator with a IF output amp, instead of a channel module. I rewired
the rack by strapping the loss of signal output to the relay control,
and connected diodes to isolate each channel from the emergency control
system. I also looped the emergency video through the local access
control room so I could flip one switch and feed the same signal to all
36 channels in an emergency.

The loss of signal mod caused a message to appear a half second after
the carrier dropped out from a TV station, or satellite feed. That let
the tech on night shift check the alignment of the converters after
stations signed off, at night.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

In article , Michael A. Terrell wrote:

(Snipped because I found it less-relevant-than-I-expected to the subject
line)

I was expecting to see stuff about power consumption by "wall warts".

Those have been called "vampires" by being 2-pronged/"fanged" constant
consumers of small amounts of electrical energy that can become somewhat
significant in terms of electrical energy consumption if one has several
being powered 24/7, though this is well behind a refrigerator and behind
most climte control and lighting electricity demand.

I do believe that there should be some "energy efficiency" requirements
of those.
I find many "switchmode" cell phone chargers to do well in that area, as
I estimate from their heat output when loaded (mostly somewhat less than
that of wallwarts" with iron core physical transformers) and when
unloaded or largely-unloaded (they become outright cool to the touch when
being connected to a cellphone that has detected that its battery got
fully charged).

I also see many "wallwarts" with more-traditional iron core transformers
easily consuming a watt or two less apiece if they get made with heavier
gauge wire, more turns of wire per unit area of
wound-around-core-cross-section, and/or thinner core material laminations
preferably of some decent material - preferably "29M6" or only one or two
minor steps cheaper than that. Maybe requiring next larger size (usually
step up in most-traditional inch measurements for an "E-I" transformer
core has longest dimension upped 5/16 inch, another upped 1/4 inch
and the third upped 1/8 inch, and there are often some options to more
mildly increase only the "stack thickness" of a laminated core by 1/8 inch
that will even alone fairly often do well).

- Don Klipstein )

In message , Don Klipstein
writes
In article , Michael A. Terrell wrote:



I was expecting to see stuff about power consumption by "wall warts".

Those have been called "vampires" by being 2-pronged/"fanged" constant
consumers of small amounts of electrical energy



That may explain why they haven't become known as 'vampires' in the UK.
Everything which plugs into a wall socket has to have THREE pins. The
live and neutral receptacles have safety shutters, which are moved aside
as the ground pin (which is somewhat longer) enters. Even in the UK, no
self-respecting vampire would use three teeth.
Ian.
--

Don Klipstein wrote:

In article , Michael A. Terrell wrote:

(Snipped because I found it less-relevant-than-I-expected to the subject
line)

- Don Klipstein )


Then tell me why you didn't reply in a more appropriate part of the
thread? I was answering some questions from another poster.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

In article , Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:

In article , Michael A. Terrell wrote:

(Snipped because I found it less-relevant-than-I-expected to the subject
line)

- Don Klipstein )

Then tell me why you didn't reply in a more appropriate part of the
thread? I was answering some questions from another poster.

That was where the thread started when I first saw it. Either my news
server went screwy for a while or I failed to notice the thread before.

I now see that there were earlier articles having to do with power
supplies that are constantly plugged in.

- Don Klipstein )

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 14:46:43 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

In article , Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:

In article , Michael A. Terrell wrote:

(Snipped because I found it less-relevant-than-I-expected to the subject
line)

- Don Klipstein )

Then tell me why you didn't reply in a more appropriate part of the
thread? I was answering some questions from another poster.

Part of the thread is in alt.home.repair AND sci.electonicts.repair.

Another part is only in ahr.

I think I brought in ser, and the answers about wall warts are in the
other part of the thread.

That was where the thread started when I first saw it. Either my news
server went screwy for a while or I failed to notice the thread before.

You read ser iirc. So it's not that your server is screwy or that you
failed to notice.

There is almost always a third possibility, even though often people
(I'm not referring to you) don't want to believe it (Either it's
amnesty or it's deportation)

I now see that there were earlier articles having to do with power
supplies that are constantly plugged in.

OH, I should have read this sentence first. OOPs. To find the posts
in ahr, you should come with the subject name and the date, because
there is so much traffic on Ahr that it will be hard to find
otehrwise. Or use groups.google and the exact subject name.

- Don Klipstein )

In article , mm wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 14:46:43 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

In article , Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:

In article , Michael A. Terrell wrote:

(Snipped because I found it less-relevant-than-I-expected to the subject
line)

- Don Klipstein )

Then tell me why you didn't reply in a more appropriate part of the
thread? I was answering some questions from another poster.

Part of the thread is in alt.home.repair AND sci.electonicts.repair.

Another part is only in ahr.

I think I brought in ser, and the answers about wall warts are in the
other part of the thread.

That was where the thread started when I first saw it. Either my news
server went screwy for a while or I failed to notice the thread before.

You read ser iirc. So it's not that your server is screwy or that you
failed to notice.

There is almost always a third possibility, even though often people
(I'm not referring to you) don't want to believe it (Either it's
amnesty or it's deportation)

I now see that there were earlier articles having to do with power
supplies that are constantly plugged in.

OH, I should have read this sentence first. OOPs. To find the posts
in ahr, you should come with the subject name and the date, because
there is so much traffic on Ahr that it will be hard to find
otehrwise. Or use groups.google and the exact subject name.

I was reading ahr. I could have glanced too quickly through a range of
subject lines towards the end of the alphabet. I scan through subject
lines more carefully in the range starting with "C", "F" and "L" since I
pay more attention to lighting and fluorescent lamps than to most other
stuff that comes up in ahr.

- Don Klipstein )