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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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vampires and power usage
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:51:20 -0400, "Zephyr" an address @ some place
..com wrote: Hey folks, I'm curious about power consumption of things like the power supply for my dell laptop its and AC/DC adaptor, and when the unit is charging my laptop it gets quite warm. from that I infer that its using a fair amount of power. now, if I leave it plugged into the wall, but remove the laptop, it does not heat up, but. there is a little light on it that indicates it is receiving power. aside from that little light, is it using any significant amount of power? The label on the unit says the input is 1.5a same question goes for my cell phone chargers 0.2a I understand that some of these things do use power constantly, but... how much? Good question. Not only the ones with wall warts, those black "adaptor" boxes that plug into the wall with a cord coming out of them, but many radios etc. with the transformers inside, have no switch in the primary of the power transformer, and they are ON all the time. For electronic reasons I don't well understand, when there is no current in the secondary of a transformer, there is higher impedance in the primary of the transformer, so less current flows even through the primary. The heat one can feel, that you feel, the waste heat would be iiac the same percentage of energy used, as when the device is running and there is current through the secondary. From your touch, it sounds like the current is a lot lower, but otoh, it's on all the time if the thing is plugged in, even for things that are only used an hour a year. Does anyone know what the percentage is, or how much these things use when off? xposted to sci.electronics.repair I found this link but it doesn't get into the Nitti gritty I was looking for http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/c...act-181497.php Dave |
#2
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vampires and power usage
On Jun 13, 10:53 pm, mm wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:51:20 -0400, "Zephyr" an address @ some place .com wrote: Hey folks, I'm curious about power consumption of things like the power supply for my dell laptop its and AC/DC adaptor, and when the unit is charging my laptop it gets quite warm. from that I infer that its using a fair amount of power. now, if I leave it plugged into the wall, but remove the laptop, it does not heat up, but. there is a little light on it that indicates it is receiving power. aside from that little light, is it using any significant amount of power? The label on the unit says the input is 1.5a same question goes for my cell phone chargers 0.2a I understand that some of these things do use power constantly, but... how much? Good question. Not only the ones with wall warts, those black "adaptor" boxes that plug into the wall with a cord coming out of them, but many radios etc. with the transformers inside, have no switch in the primary of the power transformer, and they are ON all the time. For electronic reasons I don't well understand, when there is no current in the secondary of a transformer, there is higher impedance in the primary of the transformer, so less current flows even through the primary. The heat one can feel, that you feel, the waste heat would be iiac the same percentage of energy used, as when the device is running and there is current through the secondary. From your touch, it sounds like the current is a lot lower, but otoh, it's on all the time if the thing is plugged in, even for things that are only used an hour a year. Does anyone know what the percentage is, or how much these things use when off? xposted to sci.electronics.repair I found this link but it doesn't get into the Nitti gritty I was looking for http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/c...mpire-slayer-a... Dave- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well, there's been a lot of discussion on this. Essentially, when there's no load on the phone charger or other appliance, it's like having an inductance across the power line of your house. There will be some very small current flow, but only because it's not a perfect inductance. All of the energy used in these wall transformers when they're just idling is dissipated in the form of heat in their black plastic case, so you can get an idea of how much power they're using by just feeling them. It's not really very much. Note that you'll have a tough time measuring the power drain with a multimeter, because both current and voltage will show rather high readings. But since they're almost 1/4 cycle out of phase, there's almost no power being dissipated, and only a good power meter will take this into account. (This problem is the basis for a lot of free energy claims, you'll be happy to note.) In general, wall transformers aren't a big deal. M Kinsler |
#3
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vampires and power usage
On Jun 13, 11:25 pm, m kinsler wrote:
On Jun 13, 10:53 pm, mm wrote: On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:51:20 -0400, "Zephyr" an address @ some place .com wrote: Hey folks, I'm curious about power consumption of things like the power supply for my dell laptop its and AC/DC adaptor, and when the unit is charging my laptop it gets quite warm. from that I infer that its using a fair amount of power. now, if I leave it plugged into the wall, but remove the laptop, it does not heat up, but. there is a little light on it that indicates it is receiving power. aside from that little light, is it using any significant amount of power? The label on the unit says the input is 1.5a same question goes for my cell phone chargers 0.2a I understand that some of these things do use power constantly, but... how much? Good question. Not only the ones with wall warts, those black "adaptor" boxes that plug into the wall with a cord coming out of them, but many radios etc. with the transformers inside, have no switch in the primary of the power transformer, and they are ON all the time. For electronic reasons I don't well understand, when there is no current in the secondary of a transformer, there is higher impedance in the primary of the transformer, so less current flows even through the primary. The heat one can feel, that you feel, the waste heat would be iiac the same percentage of energy used, as when the device is running and there is current through the secondary. From your touch, it sounds like the current is a lot lower, but otoh, it's on all the time if the thing is plugged in, even for things that are only used an hour a year. Does anyone know what the percentage is, or how much these things use when off? xposted to sci.electronics.repair I found this link but it doesn't get into the Nitti gritty I was looking for http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/c...mpire-slayer-a... Dave- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well, there's been a lot of discussion on this. Essentially, when there's no load on the phone charger or other appliance, it's like having an inductance across the power line of your house. There will be some very small current flow, but only because it's not a perfect inductance. All of the energy used in these wall transformers when they're just idling is dissipated in the form of heat in their black plastic case, so you can get an idea of how much power they're using by just feeling them. It's not really very much. Note that you'll have a tough time measuring the power drain with a multimeter, because both current and voltage will show rather high readings. But since they're almost 1/4 cycle out of phase, there's almost no power being dissipated, and only a good power meter will take this into account. (This problem is the basis for a lot of free energy claims, you'll be happy to note.) In general, wall transformers aren't a big deal. And don't forget, in winter you don't mind a little heat radiating, so there really is no waste, unless you have them plugged in the attic or something. |
#4
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vampires and power usage
"mm" wrote in message ... On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:51:20 -0400, "Zephyr" an address @ some place .com wrote: Hey folks, I'm curious about power consumption of things like the power supply for my dell laptop its and AC/DC adaptor, and when the unit is charging my laptop it gets quite warm. from that I infer that its using a fair amount of power. now, if I leave it plugged into the wall, but remove the laptop, it does not heat up, but. there is a little light on it that indicates it is receiving power. aside from that little light, is it using any significant amount of power? The label on the unit says the input is 1.5a same question goes for my cell phone chargers 0.2a I understand that some of these things do use power constantly, but... how much? Good question. Not only the ones with wall warts, those black "adaptor" boxes that plug into the wall with a cord coming out of them, but many radios etc. with the transformers inside, have no switch in the primary of the power transformer, and they are ON all the time. For electronic reasons I don't well understand, when there is no current in the secondary of a transformer, there is higher impedance in the primary of the transformer, so less current flows even through the primary. The heat one can feel, that you feel, the waste heat would be iiac the same percentage of energy used, as when the device is running and there is current through the secondary. From your touch, it sounds like the current is a lot lower, but otoh, it's on all the time if the thing is plugged in, even for things that are only used an hour a year. Does anyone know what the percentage is, or how much these things use when off? You can pick up a gadget called a Kill A Watt and other similar devices for under 30 bucks. It's a pretty impressive power analyzer, the wonders of modern technology. Pick up one of those and you can find out how much power anything in the house draws, as well as the power factor, cumulative consumption, etc. I have one and love it. |
#5
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vampires and power usage
Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill) -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
#6
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vampires and power usage
On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" wrote:
Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill) -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ I believe that it has to do with the idea that a vampire is something of a parasite, living as he or she does on the blood or electric current of the host. It's one of those imprecise terms up with which we all must put. M Kinsler okay, _you_ try to match wits with Winston Spencer C. |
#7
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vampires and power usage
m kinsler wrote in message
ups.com... On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" wrote: Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill) -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ I believe that it has to do with the idea that a vampire is something of a parasite, living as he or she does on the blood or electric current of the host. It's one of those imprecise terms up with which we all must put. M Kinsler okay, _you_ try to match wits with Winston Spencer C. So is Vampire = Wall Wart another term to add to my USA/UK (2 nations divided by a common language) file ? http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm If anyone, reading this, is aware of any other tool/technical terms in US or UK, my real email address is spelt out on the URL below -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
#8
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vampires and power usage
On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:27:12 +0100, "N Cook"
wrote: So is Vampire = Wall Wart another term to add to my USA/UK (2 nations divided by a common language) file ? http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm If anyone, reading this, is aware of any other tool/technical terms in US or UK, my real email address is spelt out on the URL below From my understanding of the term, a vampire device is any one that continues to draw power even when in the 'off' state. This would include devices powered by a 'wall-wart', devices with a built-in clock, devices that are powered on/off by a remote control (the circuit that receives from the remote needs power all the time), etc. So they would include most microwave ovens (the clock), TVs, VCRs, DVD players/recorders, DVRs, personal computers, etc. |
#9
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vampires and power usage
"N Cook" wrote in message ... m kinsler wrote in message ups.com... On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" wrote: Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill) -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ I believe that it has to do with the idea that a vampire is something of a parasite, living as he or she does on the blood or electric current of the host. It's one of those imprecise terms up with which we all must put. M Kinsler okay, _you_ try to match wits with Winston Spencer C. So is Vampire = Wall Wart another term to add to my USA/UK (2 nations divided by a common language) file ? http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm If anyone, reading this, is aware of any other tool/technical terms in US or UK, my real email address is spelt out on the URL below It's a term used mostly by the solar/wind guys running houses off-grid. It refers to any device which draws power even in the off state, regardless of the sort of power supply. |
#10
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vampires and power usage
James Sweet wrote in message
news:Gbjci.13139$%H5.1612@trndny03... "N Cook" wrote in message ... m kinsler wrote in message ups.com... On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" wrote: Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill) It's a term used mostly by the solar/wind guys running houses off-grid. It refers to any device which draws power even in the off state, regardless of the sort of power supply. There does not seem to be an equivalent recognised UK term for this, any limies/pomms know any different ? -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
#11
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vampires and power usage
On Jun 14, 11:27 am, "N Cook" wrote:
m kinsler wrote in message ups.com... On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" wrote: Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill) -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ I believe that it has to do with the idea that a vampire is something of a parasite, living as he or she does on the blood or electric current of the host. It's one of those imprecise terms up with which we all must put. M Kinsler okay, _you_ try to match wits with Winston Spencer C. So is Vampire = Wall Wart another term to add to my USA/UK (2 nations divided by a common language) file ?http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm If anyone, reading this, is aware of any other tool/technical terms in US or UK, my real email address is spelt out on the URL below -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ "A vampire is a-a cell deal you can plug in th' wall to charge your cell phone." -George Bush, Denver, Aug. 14, 2001 |
#12
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vampires and power usage
z wrote:
On Jun 14, 11:27 am, "N Cook" wrote: m kinsler wrote in message ups.com... On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" wrote: Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill) -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ I believe that it has to do with the idea that a vampire is something of a parasite, living as he or she does on the blood or electric current of the host. It's one of those imprecise terms up with which we all must put. M Kinsler okay, _you_ try to match wits with Winston Spencer C. So is Vampire = Wall Wart another term to add to my USA/UK (2 nations divided by a common language) file ?http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm If anyone, reading this, is aware of any other tool/technical terms in US or UK, my real email address is spelt out on the URL below -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ "A vampire is a-a cell deal you can plug in th' wall to charge your cell phone." -George Bush, Denver, Aug. 14, 2001 Could the vampire thing relating to cable piercing connectors originally have come from festoon lighting lamp holders as used on fairgrounds etc. where two sharp spikes (fangs) pierce the insulation of flat twin cable to provide power to the lamp holder? RonUK |
#13
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vampires and power usage
Hi,
On some of these smaller power supplies there is no transformer at all! I.E. no primary and secondary. They do have an inductor that is used to step down the power and rely on a Thysistor (aka. electronic switch) to turn on an off very fast. Usually 60 times a second (ac mains frequency). The voltage regulation is dependent on the amount of time the switch is on during the power cycle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_mode_power_supply One nice thing about this is that they can adapt to many mains voltages and mains frequency. Hence for laptop computers you only need one "International" power brik like supply. Warmest regards, Mike. |
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