Michael

I know that you have had a long and very varied career in electronics. Have
you ever had any experience with cable-suspended traffic lights in Florida
or elsewhere in the USA ? Or anyone else on here even ? The question I have
is not particularly repair related - more one of general interest really, so
I'm happy for any responses to be direct off-group if it is felt more
appropriate by anyone.

Arfa

On May 11, 8:33 pm, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
Michael

I know that you have had a long and very varied career in electronics. Have
you ever had any experience with cable-suspended traffic lights in Florida
or elsewhere in the USA ? Or anyone else on here even ? The question I have
is not particularly repair related - more one of general interest really, so
I'm happy for any responses to be direct off-group if it is felt more
appropriate by anyone.

Arfa

Tell us all, we can skip past it if we don't like it. This is an
eclectic group.

H. R.(Bob) Hofmann

"hr(bob) " wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 11, 8:33 pm, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
Michael

I know that you have had a long and very varied career in electronics.
Have
you ever had any experience with cable-suspended traffic lights in
Florida
or elsewhere in the USA ? Or anyone else on here even ? The question I
have
is not particularly repair related - more one of general interest really,
so
I'm happy for any responses to be direct off-group if it is felt more
appropriate by anyone.

Arfa

Tell us all, we can skip past it if we don't like it. This is an
eclectic group.

H. R.(Bob) Hofmann


OK then. Michael has already come back to me off-group with some useful
insights, but any others are of course appreciated. On one of my recent
visits to Florida, someone else in the car asked me the reasons for the
large cable loops either side of traffic lights which are suspended across
junctions on catenary wires rather than gantry or 'fishing pole' mounts.

I guessed perhaps drip loops, sophisticated strain relief, or maybe to allow
for cable breakage rewires, but I had to admit that I did not really know,
and that I would try to find out when I got back. So, does anyone know for
sure, or is it just that it's the way it's always been done, and the real
reasons are now just lost in signal repairman tradition ?

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"hr(bob) " wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 11, 8:33 pm, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
Michael

I know that you have had a long and very varied career in electronics.
Have
you ever had any experience with cable-suspended traffic lights in
Florida
or elsewhere in the USA ? Or anyone else on here even ? The question I
have
is not particularly repair related - more one of general interest
really, so
I'm happy for any responses to be direct off-group if it is felt more
appropriate by anyone.

Arfa

Tell us all, we can skip past it if we don't like it. This is an
eclectic group.

H. R.(Bob) Hofmann


OK then. Michael has already come back to me off-group with some useful
insights, but any others are of course appreciated. On one of my recent
visits to Florida, someone else in the car asked me the reasons for the
large cable loops either side of traffic lights which are suspended across
junctions on catenary wires rather than gantry or 'fishing pole' mounts.

I guessed perhaps drip loops, sophisticated strain relief, or maybe to
allow for cable breakage rewires, but I had to admit that I did not really
know, and that I would try to find out when I got back. So, does anyone
know for sure, or is it just that it's the way it's always been done, and
the real reasons are now just lost in signal repairman tradition ?

Arfa


I can't offer any real answers other than I've seen them done like that here
in Florida all my life.
All I can say during and after hurricanes I have seen traffic lights hanging
from their power wires
rather than the steel cable that they are supposed to be suspended from,
though I doubt this is
the reason for coiling the power wires up.

- Mike

OK then. Michael has already come back to me off-group with some useful
insights, but any others are of course appreciated. On one of my recent
visits to Florida, someone else in the car asked me the reasons for the
large cable loops either side of traffic lights which are suspended
across junctions on catenary wires rather than gantry or 'fishing pole'
mounts.

I guessed perhaps drip loops, sophisticated strain relief, or maybe to
allow for cable breakage rewires, but I had to admit that I did not
really know, and that I would try to find out when I got back. So, does
anyone know for sure, or is it just that it's the way it's always been
done, and the real reasons are now just lost in signal repairman
tradition ?

Arfa



Do you have a picture showing exactly what you're referring to? My uncle
installs and maintains these things for a living so I can get a sure answer
from him assuming they're the same way in the opposite corner of the
country.

I do know that we've been phasing out our spanwire installations over the
years in favor of rigid mast arms.

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:H4r1i.3027$4a1.300@trndny07...



OK then. Michael has already come back to me off-group with some useful
insights, but any others are of course appreciated. On one of my recent
visits to Florida, someone else in the car asked me the reasons for the
large cable loops either side of traffic lights which are suspended
across junctions on catenary wires rather than gantry or 'fishing pole'
mounts.

I guessed perhaps drip loops, sophisticated strain relief, or maybe to
allow for cable breakage rewires, but I had to admit that I did not
really know, and that I would try to find out when I got back. So, does
anyone know for sure, or is it just that it's the way it's always been
done, and the real reasons are now just lost in signal repairman
tradition ?

Arfa



Do you have a picture showing exactly what you're referring to? My uncle
installs and maintains these things for a living so I can get a sure
answer from him assuming they're the same way in the opposite corner of
the country.

I do know that we've been phasing out our spanwire installations over the
years in favor of rigid mast arms.

Hi James. I have had a quick look in Google images, but typically, there is
no picture that shows what I am referring to. However, I have been assured
by Michael T that they are installed the same all over the states, and
Michael K says above that they are the same all over Florida at least. I
have for sure seen them in Fl, Colorado, Ca and Nevada. I am referring to
the large ( a good foot or so I am guessing ?? ) loop that is made in the
supply cable on either side of each traffic light set, and which appears to
be fixed ( taped ? ty-wrapped ? wire-wrapped ? ) to the catenary suspension
wire. Always very neatly done from what I can see. We don't have lights
suspended over intersections in this way here in the UK, so I have no idea
from personal experience, of the exact reason for them.

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:

Hi James. I have had a quick look in Google images, but typically, there is
no picture that shows what I am referring to. However, I have been assured
by Michael T that they are installed the same all over the states, and
Michael K says above that they are the same all over Florida at least. I
have for sure seen them in Fl, Colorado, Ca and Nevada. I am referring to
the large ( a good foot or so I am guessing ?? ) loop that is made in the
supply cable on either side of each traffic light set, and which appears to
be fixed ( taped ? ty-wrapped ? wire-wrapped ? ) to the catenary suspension
wire. Always very neatly done from what I can see. We don't have lights
suspended over intersections in this way here in the UK, so I have no idea
from personal experience, of the exact reason for them.


I will try to get some usable pictures the next time I'm out. I want
one of a failing red LED light near here, anyway.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

On Sun, 13 May 2007 04:46:25 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Arfa Daily wrote:

Hi James. I have had a quick look in Google images, but typically, there is
no picture that shows what I am referring to. However, I have been assured
by Michael T that they are installed the same all over the states, and
Michael K says above that they are the same all over Florida at least. I
have for sure seen them in Fl, Colorado, Ca and Nevada. I am referring to
the large ( a good foot or so I am guessing ?? ) loop that is made in the
supply cable on either side of each traffic light set, and which appears to
be fixed ( taped ? ty-wrapped ? wire-wrapped ? ) to the catenary suspension
wire. Always very neatly done from what I can see. We don't have lights
suspended over intersections in this way here in the UK, so I have no idea
from personal experience, of the exact reason for them.


I will try to get some usable pictures the next time I'm out. I want
one of a failing red LED light near here, anyway.

I think this is what you're referring to, maybe...

http://www.aaroadtrips.com/ohio/wate...ffic_light.jpg

I've seen them coiled here in TX too.
Steve

"Steve" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 May 2007 04:46:25 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Arfa Daily wrote:

Hi James. I have had a quick look in Google images, but typically, there
is
no picture that shows what I am referring to. However, I have been
assured
by Michael T that they are installed the same all over the states, and
Michael K says above that they are the same all over Florida at least. I
have for sure seen them in Fl, Colorado, Ca and Nevada. I am referring
to
the large ( a good foot or so I am guessing ?? ) loop that is made in
the
supply cable on either side of each traffic light set, and which appears
to
be fixed ( taped ? ty-wrapped ? wire-wrapped ? ) to the catenary
suspension
wire. Always very neatly done from what I can see. We don't have lights
suspended over intersections in this way here in the UK, so I have no
idea
from personal experience, of the exact reason for them.


I will try to get some usable pictures the next time I'm out. I want
one of a failing red LED light near here, anyway.

I think this is what you're referring to, maybe...

http://www.aaroadtrips.com/ohio/wate...ffic_light.jpg

I've seen them coiled here in TX too.
Steve

Yep - that's the loop ok. But curiouser and curiouser as they say ... Those
lights only have the loop on one side, and it's the opposite side of each
one so that the cable run between the two lights is virtually direct. I
wonder what the significance of that is ? I'm really looking forward to
James getting a definitive answer from his uncle on this one.

Arfa

I live in Flordia and have noticed same. I am guessing two possibilities
that would warrant a long service loop:

1.) When preparing for hurricanes, the cities will sometimes take down
some of the redundant lighting, apparently to relieve the wind loading
on the structures.

2.) Sometimes the lights have to be moved to acomodate the
transportation of oversized loads like trailers or electrical generators.

Arfa Daily wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
.. .


On Sun, 13 May 2007 04:46:25 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:



Arfa Daily wrote:


Hi James. I have had a quick look in Google images, but typically, there
is
no picture that shows what I am referring to. However, I have been
assured
by Michael T that they are installed the same all over the states, and
Michael K says above that they are the same all over Florida at least. I
have for sure seen them in Fl, Colorado, Ca and Nevada. I am referring
to
the large ( a good foot or so I am guessing ?? ) loop that is made in
the
supply cable on either side of each traffic light set, and which appears
to
be fixed ( taped ? ty-wrapped ? wire-wrapped ? ) to the catenary
suspension
wire. Always very neatly done from what I can see. We don't have lights
suspended over intersections in this way here in the UK, so I have no
idea
from personal experience, of the exact reason for them.


I will try to get some usable pictures the next time I'm out. I want
one of a failing red LED light near here, anyway.


I think this is what you're referring to, maybe...

http://www.aaroadtrips.com/ohio/wate...ffic_light.jpg

I've seen them coiled here in TX too.
Steve



Yep - that's the loop ok. But curiouser and curiouser as they say ... Those
lights only have the loop on one side, and it's the opposite side of each
one so that the cable run between the two lights is virtually direct. I
wonder what the significance of that is ? I'm really looking forward to
James getting a definitive answer from his uncle on this one.

Arfa





--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

"Steve" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 May 2007 04:46:25 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Arfa Daily wrote:

Hi James. I have had a quick look in Google images, but typically, there is
no picture that shows what I am referring to. However, I have been assured
by Michael T that they are installed the same all over the states, and
Michael K says above that they are the same all over Florida at least. I
have for sure seen them in Fl, Colorado, Ca and Nevada. I am referring to
the large ( a good foot or so I am guessing ?? ) loop that is made in the
supply cable on either side of each traffic light set, and which appears to
be fixed ( taped ? ty-wrapped ? wire-wrapped ? ) to the catenary suspension
wire. Always very neatly done from what I can see. We don't have lights
suspended over intersections in this way here in the UK, so I have no idea
from personal experience, of the exact reason for them.


I will try to get some usable pictures the next time I'm out. I want
one of a failing red LED light near here, anyway.

I think this is what you're referring to, maybe...

http://www.aaroadtrips.com/ohio/wate...ffic_light.jpg

I've seen them coiled here in TX too.
Steve


This is just my opinion on the looping of the power line on traffic signals...
Those loops remind me of my years in the commercial FM radio service business in
the Florida panhandle. In the transmitter shack of many of our customers, the
antenna feedline would have a loop formed in similar fashion, though those loops
were much larger. It was for lightning protection.
Theory was that the loop formed an inductance that was effective against
lightning strikes on and near the antenna tower. The inductance presented an
impedance to the lightning pulse, and prevented it from getting into the
transmitter.
Seemed to work... here in Florida, the lightning capital of the world, we had
very few stations that experienced significant damage due to lightning.
I remember one base station just across the state line into Georgia, lightning
hit a 200' antenna. The antenna was obliterated, the transmission line was
melted down to the bottom of the tower, but the base station only had a blown
power supply fuse. I attributed the lack of damage to the base station to the
loop in the transmission line. Of course, with lightning, you can never really
be sure.

So, my opinion of the loops in the power lines near the traffic signals is for
lightning protection. Don't know if that's the real reason for them, but it's
surely plausible, especially in high lightning areas.

--
Dave M
MasonDG44 at comcast dot net (Just substitute the appropriate characters in the
address)

Life is like a roll of toilet paper; the closer to the end, the faster it goes.

"DaveM" wrote in message
. ..
"Steve" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 May 2007 04:46:25 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Arfa Daily wrote:

Hi James. I have had a quick look in Google images, but typically,
there is
no picture that shows what I am referring to. However, I have been
assured
by Michael T that they are installed the same all over the states, and
Michael K says above that they are the same all over Florida at least.
I
have for sure seen them in Fl, Colorado, Ca and Nevada. I am referring
to
the large ( a good foot or so I am guessing ?? ) loop that is made in
the
supply cable on either side of each traffic light set, and which
appears to
be fixed ( taped ? ty-wrapped ? wire-wrapped ? ) to the catenary
suspension
wire. Always very neatly done from what I can see. We don't have lights
suspended over intersections in this way here in the UK, so I have no
idea
from personal experience, of the exact reason for them.


I will try to get some usable pictures the next time I'm out. I want
one of a failing red LED light near here, anyway.

I think this is what you're referring to, maybe...

http://www.aaroadtrips.com/ohio/wate...ffic_light.jpg

I've seen them coiled here in TX too.
Steve


This is just my opinion on the looping of the power line on traffic
signals... Those loops remind me of my years in the commercial FM radio
service business in the Florida panhandle. In the transmitter shack of
many of our customers, the antenna feedline would have a loop formed in
similar fashion, though those loops were much larger. It was for
lightning protection.
Theory was that the loop formed an inductance that was effective against
lightning strikes on and near the antenna tower. The inductance presented
an impedance to the lightning pulse, and prevented it from getting into
the transmitter.
Seemed to work... here in Florida, the lightning capital of the world, we
had very few stations that experienced significant damage due to
lightning.
I remember one base station just across the state line into Georgia,
lightning hit a 200' antenna. The antenna was obliterated, the
transmission line was melted down to the bottom of the tower, but the base
station only had a blown power supply fuse. I attributed the lack of
damage to the base station to the loop in the transmission line. Of
course, with lightning, you can never really be sure.

So, my opinion of the loops in the power lines near the traffic signals is
for lightning protection. Don't know if that's the real reason for them,
but it's surely plausible, especially in high lightning areas.


That's two more good theories from EMI GUY and Dave. Didn't realise what I
was starting here, but I'm finding it really interesting, and especially so
that even people who live full time in the states, don't know. It's one of
those intriguing little mysteries that you can go your whole life without
spotting until someone points it out.

Tell you what else that I've found interesting, and that's the number of
people who have responded to this thread, who are very regular posters on
here, and who it turns out, live in the state of Florida ! I wonder why that
is ? I love the thunderstorms in Florida from a 'spectacular thing to watch'
point of view, but I don't suppose they are too good for you guys having to
deal with the electronic damage that they must cause. There was a mother of
a one when I was there last week. At its height, there must have been a
lightning stroke every two or three seconds. Very impressive to see. We
never get them quite as violent as that here in the UK, but the ones we do
get can last several hours, whereas most of the ones I've seen in Florida
over the years, tend to be over and done with quite quickly.

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:

"DaveM" wrote in message
. ..
"Steve" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 May 2007 04:46:25 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Arfa Daily wrote:

Hi James. I have had a quick look in Google images, but typically,
there is
no picture that shows what I am referring to. However, I have been
assured
by Michael T that they are installed the same all over the states, and
Michael K says above that they are the same all over Florida at least.
I
have for sure seen them in Fl, Colorado, Ca and Nevada. I am referring
to
the large ( a good foot or so I am guessing ?? ) loop that is made in
the
supply cable on either side of each traffic light set, and which
appears to
be fixed ( taped ? ty-wrapped ? wire-wrapped ? ) to the catenary
suspension
wire. Always very neatly done from what I can see. We don't have lights
suspended over intersections in this way here in the UK, so I have no
idea
from personal experience, of the exact reason for them.


I will try to get some usable pictures the next time I'm out. I want
one of a failing red LED light near here, anyway.

I think this is what you're referring to, maybe...

http://www.aaroadtrips.com/ohio/wate...ffic_light.jpg

I've seen them coiled here in TX too.
Steve


This is just my opinion on the looping of the power line on traffic
signals... Those loops remind me of my years in the commercial FM radio
service business in the Florida panhandle. In the transmitter shack of
many of our customers, the antenna feedline would have a loop formed in
similar fashion, though those loops were much larger. It was for
lightning protection.
Theory was that the loop formed an inductance that was effective against
lightning strikes on and near the antenna tower. The inductance presented
an impedance to the lightning pulse, and prevented it from getting into
the transmitter.
Seemed to work... here in Florida, the lightning capital of the world, we
had very few stations that experienced significant damage due to
lightning.
I remember one base station just across the state line into Georgia,
lightning hit a 200' antenna. The antenna was obliterated, the
transmission line was melted down to the bottom of the tower, but the base
station only had a blown power supply fuse. I attributed the lack of
damage to the base station to the loop in the transmission line. Of
course, with lightning, you can never really be sure.

So, my opinion of the loops in the power lines near the traffic signals is
for lightning protection. Don't know if that's the real reason for them,
but it's surely plausible, especially in high lightning areas.


That's two more good theories from EMI GUY and Dave. Didn't realise what I
was starting here, but I'm finding it really interesting, and especially so
that even people who live full time in the states, don't know. It's one of
those intriguing little mysteries that you can go your whole life without
spotting until someone points it out.

Tell you what else that I've found interesting, and that's the number of
people who have responded to this thread, who are very regular posters on
here, and who it turns out, live in the state of Florida ! I wonder why that
is ? I love the thunderstorms in Florida from a 'spectacular thing to watch'
point of view, but I don't suppose they are too good for you guys having to
deal with the electronic damage that they must cause. There was a mother of
a one when I was there last week. At its height, there must have been a
lightning stroke every two or three seconds. Very impressive to see. We
never get them quite as violent as that here in the UK, but the ones we do
get can last several hours, whereas most of the ones I've seen in Florida
over the years, tend to be over and done with quite quickly.

Arfa


We had over 7000 lightning strikes in Central Florida on Sunday.

At the last place I lived, i had a battery powered digital
thermometer explode from a close strike, in the marsh behind my shop.
It also took out all three video amplifiers on my SVGA monitor, even
though it wasn't connected at the time, and had the video cable wrapped
around the tilt stand.

One bolt hit the TV antenna and damaged about $5000 worth of
electronics and building damage. The only things that survived were
plugged directly into MOV surge protectors on each item. Anything that
was plugged in without one was damaged, even though the power was out.
I was in a 16' * 20' wood building with solid steel doors, and no
windows with no power. One bolt hit so close that it lit the entire
inside of the shop, and it felt like the building was coming off its
foundation. That storm burnt the underground power lines to our storage
building, the line card in the pedestal for our phone line, and took out
a mile of underground copper telephone wire, to the pedestal, and
damaged that pair to the Central Office.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida