Are small bends, or even small creases, or even large creases enough
to cause internet signal degradation. IIUC, it can cause ghosts in tv
reception??, but with internet, it would mean the resending of some
packets, right. Perhaps multiple resending, lowering the speed by 10,
20, 50, 80%????

When my isp starts to offer cable internet, I'm hoping to sign up. I
would run the cable from the back of the house to the office, using if
I can, scrap coaxial cable. It's in very good condition, beautiful
ends on each end (better or at least better looking than I can
attach), bright white finish, never been dirty, but it has been bent
at one or two places to a 90 degree angle, and at 3 or 4 other places
to a 135 or 120 degree bend. Of course there is no flex pressure on
the cable now, and I have bent the coax back to where it is
practically straight when it is at rest (and not coiled). I'm
guessing that maybe the insulation was compressed, and the distance
from the center wire to the shield is not as great as it should be in
these two locations. Maybe 10 or 20% too little on one side of the
wire. Is that enough to lower transmission speed??

Even if you tell me this is imporant and I should get new cable, what
about using this cable for other things, like running tv around my
house or things I don't even know about. Does what I described mean
there will be a substantial signal loss, or ghosts??

Thanks

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

mm wrote:
Are small bends, or even small creases, or even large creases enough
to cause internet signal degradation. IIUC, it can cause ghosts in
tv
reception??, but with internet, it would mean the resending of some
packets, right. Perhaps multiple resending, lowering the speed by
10,
20, 50, 80%????

When it gets to the point of causing data loss, you're already on the
bad side of things.

1: Don't squash/crease your cables. You mess up the VSWR and cause
reflections (ghosts in TV). You start getting data re-sends and you may
get to the point where _no_ data is usable.

2: Bends are fine but don't get the radius too small. At least a 3"
radius for RG-6 will cause no problems.

3: If the cable is coming through a wall from outside, keep a 'drip
loop' so water doesn't run down the cable into the wall

When my isp starts to offer cable internet, I'm hoping to sign up.
I
would run the cable from the back of the house to the office, using
if
I can, scrap coaxial cable. It's in very good condition, beautiful
ends on each end (better or at least better looking than I can
attach), bright white finish, never been dirty, but it has been bent
at one or two places to a 90 degree angle, and at 3 or 4 other
places
to a 135 or 120 degree bend. Of course there is no flex pressure on
the cable now, and I have bent the coax back to where it is
practically straight when it is at rest (and not coiled). I'm
guessing that maybe the insulation was compressed, and the distance
from the center wire to the shield is not as great as it should be
in
these two locations. Maybe 10 or 20% too little on one side of the
wire. Is that enough to lower transmission speed??

Its not speed you need to be concerned with. If you're noticing speed
losses it's WAY screwed up.

Even if you tell me this is imporant and I should get new cable,
what
about using this cable for other things, like running tv around my
house or things I don't even know about. Does what I described
mean
there will be a substantial signal loss, or ghosts??


Once the cable is kinked/squashed/deformed or otherwise damaged, the
length before or after the damage can be used but you REALLY don't want
bad VSWR in the system. SO cut out any visibly damaged pieces.

For outdoor cable runs you need weather boots to cover the connectors.
Compression fittings are better yet WITH the boots and I like to fill
the connectionwith silicon grease to keep the water out. Also prevents
corrosion.

Thanks

You're welcome
GG

In article ,
mm wrote:

Are small bends, or even small creases, or even large creases enough
to cause internet signal degradation. IIUC, it can cause ghosts in tv
reception??, but with internet, it would mean the resending of some
packets, right. Perhaps multiple resending, lowering the speed by 10,
20, 50, 80%????

As a rule, with digital transmission, flaws of the sort you mention are
either not significant, or very significant, with no in between.

IOW, if it works at all, it'll work just fine.

Still, the smart money would be on buying a new roll of RG-6 at the
local Radio Shack.

Isaac

"isw" wrote in message
...
In article ,
mm wrote:

Are small bends, or even small creases, or even large creases enough
to cause internet signal degradation. IIUC, it can cause ghosts in tv
reception??, but with internet, it would mean the resending of some
packets, right. Perhaps multiple resending, lowering the speed by 10,
20, 50, 80%????

As a rule, with digital transmission, flaws of the sort you mention are
either not significant, or very significant, with no in between.

IOW, if it works at all, it'll work just fine.

Still, the smart money would be on buying a new roll of RG-6 at the
local Radio Shack.

Isaac

Surely, the most significant factor is whether the OP is talking good
quality twin screen coax, with specs up to the job for the carrier frequency
that's being used by the cable company ? If it's 20 year old VHF patchlead
coax, rather than proper distribution coax, any losses due to poor VSWR from
kinking, will pale into insignificance. With the advent of DSB TV, good
quality twin screen coax is now so cheap, that I can't imagine why you would
not just use new, and be absolutely sure that you are getting the
performance that your cable broadband is capable of delivering. The comments
made by other posters regarding permanent damage and bend radii, are
absolutely valid, and should be adhered to. With regard to crush damage,
another factor which no one has mentioned, is that it can result in
frequency-specific suckout. Trust me - I've seen it on a spec anny.

Arfa

mm wrote:
Are small bends, or even small creases, or even large creases enough
to cause internet signal degradation. IIUC, it can cause ghosts in tv
reception??, but with internet, it would mean the resending of some
packets, right. Perhaps multiple resending, lowering the speed by 10,
20, 50, 80%????

When my isp starts to offer cable internet, I'm hoping to sign up. I
would run the cable from the back of the house to the office, using if
I can, scrap coaxial cable. It's in very good condition, beautiful
ends on each end (better or at least better looking than I can
attach), bright white finish, never been dirty, but it has been bent
at one or two places to a 90 degree angle, and at 3 or 4 other places
to a 135 or 120 degree bend. Of course there is no flex pressure on
the cable now, and I have bent the coax back to where it is
practically straight when it is at rest (and not coiled). I'm
guessing that maybe the insulation was compressed, and the distance
from the center wire to the shield is not as great as it should be in
these two locations. Maybe 10 or 20% too little on one side of the
wire. Is that enough to lower transmission speed??

Even if you tell me this is imporant and I should get new cable, what
about using this cable for other things, like running tv around my
house or things I don't even know about. Does what I described mean
there will be a substantial signal loss, or ghosts??

Thanks

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)
Do you have some TV application that would let you test the cable,
however imperfectly. Perhaps from VCR to TV, comparing your cable to
a brand new 6' long cable. Not a perfect test as channels 3 and 4 are
less than 100MHz but if the long cable is visibly inferior, you know
you should scrap it.

But as others have noted, the RG # of the cable is all important.

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 23:05:25 -0500, mm
wrote:

Are small bends, or even small creases, or even large creases enough
to cause internet signal degradation. IIUC, it can cause ghosts in tv
reception??, but with internet, it would mean the resending of some
packets, right. Perhaps multiple resending, lowering the speed by 10,
20, 50, 80%????

When my isp starts to offer cable internet, I'm hoping to sign up. I
would run the cable from the back of the house to the office, using if
I can, scrap coaxial cable. It's in very good condition, beautiful
ends on each end (better or at least better looking than I can
attach), bright white finish, never been dirty, but it has been bent
at one or two places to a 90 degree angle, and at 3 or 4 other places
to a 135 or 120 degree bend. Of course there is no flex pressure on
the cable now, and I have bent the coax back to where it is
practically straight when it is at rest (and not coiled). I'm
guessing that maybe the insulation was compressed, and the distance
from the center wire to the shield is not as great as it should be in
these two locations. Maybe 10 or 20% too little on one side of the
wire. Is that enough to lower transmission speed??

Even if you tell me this is imporant and I should get new cable, what
about using this cable for other things, like running tv around my
house or things I don't even know about. Does what I described mean
there will be a substantial signal loss, or ghosts??

Thanks

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

You're probably good to go. I was fooling around with a Time Domain
Reflectometer and some coax - shows changes in impedance along a
length of wire and where the problem is by length.

A small kink, and even some pretty aggressive kinking, is usually not
significant with solid or foam core coax. With spiral core (exotic
stuff with a spiral of foam to center the center conductor) a kink can
be significant. Most ordinary coax really has to be abused badly to
start reflecting signal.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

isw wrote:
Still, the smart money would be on buying a new roll of RG-6 at the
local Radio Shack.

Unless something's changed in a major way, smart money doesn't spend
itself for coax at Radio Shack.

--
Asking Iran and Syria to help us succeed in Iraq is like your local fire
department asking a couple of arsonists to help put out the fire.
-- Joe Lieberman

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 13:56:46 -0600, clifto wrote:


isw wrote:
Still, the smart money would be on buying a new roll of RG-6 at the
local Radio Shack.

Unless something's changed in a major way, smart money doesn't spend
itself for coax at Radio Shack.

Definately. Radio shack is about twenty times more expensive than buying
from a home construction hardware store.

Just make sure the percentage of shielding is 80% or better, the more the better.There is alot of off-air noise and signals that get into a modems' bandwith that can cause havoc.Not to mention your digital boxes and /or digital phone services.Moisture can also be a problem in coax which may not be visible when you are examing the cables.As for small kinks or bends, it may depend on what type of modulation is being used for the modem. A 16 or 256 Quam signal is extremely sensitive to cabling issues where as a Qspk isn't, so to speak. Instead of looking for a used cable , why not just ask a cable installer( if you happen to see 1 in your neighborhood) if he can give you some coax. Most would be happy to do so if it means they won't have to run it. Some Cable companies even sell it at some of their offices. A good quality coax will also keep you from causing problems throughout your nieghborhood sice it keep unwanted noise and carriers from entering the upstream path( and down stream paths in some cases).If and when you do get a cable modem installed , make sure the installer or whoever checks out your drop coax to make sure you are not putting excessive noise back onto the system, a good tech should do that anyway.

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...

Unless something's changed in a major way, smart money doesn't spend
itself for coax at Radio Shack.

Definately. Radio shack is about twenty times more expensive than buying
from a home construction hardware store.

Yes, but not if you have to ship it.

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 22:34:43 +0000, Dartattack wrote:


Just make sure the percentage of shielding is 80% or better, the more
the better.There is alot of off-air noise and signals that get into a

RG6 is a specification including materials, dimensions, and yes it also
includes the type and coverage of shielding. There's no such thing as
75% shielded RG6.

AZ Nomad wrote:

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 22:34:43 +0000, Dartattack wrote:

Just make sure the percentage of shielding is 80% or better, the more
the better.There is alot of off-air noise and signals that get into a

RG6 is a specification including materials, dimensions, and yes it also
includes the type and coverage of shielding. There's no such thing as
75% shielded RG6.


The RG standard is no longer used by the military so yo can use it
any way you like. Radio Shack, Jersey Specialty Company, and others sell
so call "RG 6 coax" that isn't fit for audio use because there is very
little braid and no foil. You could marker lamp cord as RG6 and not
worry about being charged with selling substandard cable.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 16:57:57 GMT, Bennett Price
wrote:



mm wrote:
Are small bends, or even small creases, or even large creases enough
to cause internet signal degradation. IIUC, it can cause ghosts in tv
reception??, but with internet, it would mean the resending of some
packets, right. Perhaps multiple resending, lowering the speed by 10,
20, 50, 80%????

When my isp starts to offer cable internet, I'm hoping to sign up. I
would run the cable from the back of the house to the office, using if
I can, scrap coaxial cable. It's in very good condition, beautiful
ends on each end (better or at least better looking than I can
attach), bright white finish, never been dirty, but it has been bent
at one or two places to a 90 degree angle, and at 3 or 4 other places
to a 135 or 120 degree bend. Of course there is no flex pressure on
the cable now, and I have bent the coax back to where it is
practically straight when it is at rest (and not coiled). I'm
guessing that maybe the insulation was compressed, and the distance
from the center wire to the shield is not as great as it should be in
these two locations. Maybe 10 or 20% too little on one side of the
wire. Is that enough to lower transmission speed??

Even if you tell me this is imporant and I should get new cable, what
about using this cable for other things, like running tv around my
house or things I don't even know about. Does what I described mean
there will be a substantial signal loss, or ghosts??

Thanks

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)
Do you have some TV application that would let you test the cable,
however imperfectly. Perhaps from VCR to TV, comparing your cable to
a brand new 6' long cable. Not a perfect test as channels 3 and 4 are
less than 100MHz but if the long cable is visibly inferior, you know
you should scrap it.

What a great idea (and should-be obvious idea to me who has often
said, The way to know is to look.) I should have thought of this.

I'll do that.

But as others have noted, the RG # of the cable is all important.

It's labeled 200896 F677TSVV (ETL) us CATV 18 AWG .

Could you explain any of thta to me?

After my first post I remembered that I had cable tv for a few years
when I moved in, and the cable guy scrunched up about 12 inches and
stuffed it into a 3 inch box, with some pretty sharp bends. When I
learned how bad this was, I can't remember which: either I didn't have
cable anymore, or I would have complained, but the cable picture was
perfect afaict. Regardless of the reason I didn't complain, the cable
picture was perfect as far as I could tell.

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:19:31 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


"isw" wrote in message
...
In article ,
mm wrote:

Are small bends, or even small creases, or even large creases enough
to cause internet signal degradation. IIUC, it can cause ghosts in tv
reception??, but with internet, it would mean the resending of some
packets, right. Perhaps multiple resending, lowering the speed by 10,
20, 50, 80%????

As a rule, with digital transmission, flaws of the sort you mention are
either not significant, or very significant, with no in between.

IOW, if it works at all, it'll work just fine.

Still, the smart money would be on buying a new roll of RG-6 at the
local Radio Shack.

Yeah, I'm sure, but a) I have to do something with this old cable or
I'll end up saving it for the rest of my life. b) I'm over budget, on
my whole life. I figure that 10 dollars not spent now will be worth a
100 when I'm 80 years old, and I'm going to need every penny by then.

Isaac



If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

Sorry - I don't have a clue as to what these markings mean.
It's labeled 200896 F677TSVV (ETL) us CATV 18 AWG



mm wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 16:57:57 GMT, Bennett Price
wrote:


mm wrote:
Are small bends, or even small creases, or even large creases enough
to cause internet signal degradation. IIUC, it can cause ghosts in tv
reception??, but with internet, it would mean the resending of some
packets, right. Perhaps multiple resending, lowering the speed by 10,
20, 50, 80%????

When my isp starts to offer cable internet, I'm hoping to sign up. I
would run the cable from the back of the house to the office, using if
I can, scrap coaxial cable. It's in very good condition, beautiful
ends on each end (better or at least better looking than I can
attach), bright white finish, never been dirty, but it has been bent
at one or two places to a 90 degree angle, and at 3 or 4 other places
to a 135 or 120 degree bend. Of course there is no flex pressure on
the cable now, and I have bent the coax back to where it is
practically straight when it is at rest (and not coiled). I'm
guessing that maybe the insulation was compressed, and the distance
from the center wire to the shield is not as great as it should be in
these two locations. Maybe 10 or 20% too little on one side of the
wire. Is that enough to lower transmission speed??

Even if you tell me this is imporant and I should get new cable, what
about using this cable for other things, like running tv around my
house or things I don't even know about. Does what I described mean
there will be a substantial signal loss, or ghosts??

Thanks

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)
Do you have some TV application that would let you test the cable,
however imperfectly. Perhaps from VCR to TV, comparing your cable to
a brand new 6' long cable. Not a perfect test as channels 3 and 4 are
less than 100MHz but if the long cable is visibly inferior, you know
you should scrap it.

What a great idea (and should-be obvious idea to me who has often
said, The way to know is to look.) I should have thought of this.

I'll do that.

But as others have noted, the RG # of the cable is all important.

It's labeled 200896 F677TSVV (ETL) us CATV 18 AWG .

Could you explain any of thta to me?

After my first post I remembered that I had cable tv for a few years
when I moved in, and the cable guy scrunched up about 12 inches and
stuffed it into a 3 inch box, with some pretty sharp bends. When I
learned how bad this was, I can't remember which: either I didn't have
cable anymore, or I would have complained, but the cable picture was
perfect afaict. Regardless of the reason I didn't complain, the cable
picture was perfect as far as I could tell.

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

mm wrote:

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 16:57:57 GMT, Bennett Price
wrote:



mm wrote:
Are small bends, or even small creases, or even large creases enough
to cause internet signal degradation. IIUC, it can cause ghosts in tv
reception??, but with internet, it would mean the resending of some
packets, right. Perhaps multiple resending, lowering the speed by 10,
20, 50, 80%????

When my isp starts to offer cable internet, I'm hoping to sign up. I
would run the cable from the back of the house to the office, using if
I can, scrap coaxial cable. It's in very good condition, beautiful
ends on each end (better or at least better looking than I can
attach), bright white finish, never been dirty, but it has been bent
at one or two places to a 90 degree angle, and at 3 or 4 other places
to a 135 or 120 degree bend. Of course there is no flex pressure on
the cable now, and I have bent the coax back to where it is
practically straight when it is at rest (and not coiled). I'm
guessing that maybe the insulation was compressed, and the distance
from the center wire to the shield is not as great as it should be in
these two locations. Maybe 10 or 20% too little on one side of the
wire. Is that enough to lower transmission speed??

Even if you tell me this is imporant and I should get new cable, what
about using this cable for other things, like running tv around my
house or things I don't even know about. Does what I described mean
there will be a substantial signal loss, or ghosts??

Thanks

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)
Do you have some TV application that would let you test the cable,
however imperfectly. Perhaps from VCR to TV, comparing your cable to
a brand new 6' long cable. Not a perfect test as channels 3 and 4 are
less than 100MHz but if the long cable is visibly inferior, you know
you should scrap it.

What a great idea (and should-be obvious idea to me who has often
said, The way to know is to look.) I should have thought of this.

I'll do that.

But as others have noted, the RG # of the cable is all important.

It's labeled 200896 F677TSVV (ETL) us CATV 18 AWG .

Could you explain any of thta to me?

After my first post I remembered that I had cable tv for a few years
when I moved in, and the cable guy scrunched up about 12 inches and
stuffed it into a 3 inch box, with some pretty sharp bends. When I
learned how bad this was, I can't remember which: either I didn't have
cable anymore, or I would have complained, but the cable picture was
perfect afaict. Regardless of the reason I didn't complain, the cable
picture was perfect as far as I could tell.


Was it neatly coiled inside the box, or hammered in? I used to leave
an extra six inches for repairs and carefully lay it into the box,
around the edge to prevent any kinks.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 17:04:38 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

mm wrote:

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 16:57:57 GMT, Bennett Price
wrote:



mm wrote:
Are small bends, or even small creases, or even large creases enough
to cause internet signal degradation. IIUC, it can cause ghosts in tv
reception??, but with internet, it would mean the resending of some
packets, right. Perhaps multiple resending, lowering the speed by 10,
20, 50, 80%????

When my isp starts to offer cable internet, I'm hoping to sign up. I
would run the cable from the back of the house to the office, using if
I can, scrap coaxial cable. It's in very good condition, beautiful
ends on each end (better or at least better looking than I can
attach), bright white finish, never been dirty, but it has been bent
at one or two places to a 90 degree angle, and at 3 or 4 other places
to a 135 or 120 degree bend. Of course there is no flex pressure on
the cable now, and I have bent the coax back to where it is
practically straight when it is at rest (and not coiled). I'm
guessing that maybe the insulation was compressed, and the distance
from the center wire to the shield is not as great as it should be in
these two locations. Maybe 10 or 20% too little on one side of the
wire. Is that enough to lower transmission speed??

Even if you tell me this is imporant and I should get new cable, what
about using this cable for other things, like running tv around my
house or things I don't even know about. Does what I described mean
there will be a substantial signal loss, or ghosts??

Thanks

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)
Do you have some TV application that would let you test the cable,
however imperfectly. Perhaps from VCR to TV, comparing your cable to
a brand new 6' long cable. Not a perfect test as channels 3 and 4 are
less than 100MHz but if the long cable is visibly inferior, you know
you should scrap it.

What a great idea (and should-be obvious idea to me who has often
said, The way to know is to look.) I should have thought of this.

I'll do that.

But as others have noted, the RG # of the cable is all important.

It's labeled 200896 F677TSVV (ETL) us CATV 18 AWG .

Could you explain any of thta to me?

After my first post I remembered that I had cable tv for a few years
when I moved in, and the cable guy scrunched up about 12 inches and
stuffed it into a 3 inch box, with some pretty sharp bends. When I
learned how bad this was, I can't remember which: either I didn't have
cable anymore, or I would have complained, but the cable picture was
perfect afaict. Regardless of the reason I didn't complain, the cable
picture was perfect as far as I could tell.


Was it neatly coiled inside the box, or hammered in? I used to leave
an extra six inches for repairs and carefully lay it into the box,
around the edge to prevent any kinks.

No, it was stuffed in with pretty sharp bends, that took up only a
fourth of the width of the box, iirc. I would have thought he did
good if he did like you describe, around the box.

-- Sorry it took so long to reply. I left all the previous posts for
context.

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 16:51:28 GMT, Bennett Price
wrote:

Sorry - I don't have a clue as to what these markings mean.

It's labeled 200896 F677TSVV (ETL) us CATV 18 AWG

Thanks anyhow.

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)