I live in a old house but I get the three power lines coming into
breaker box (110x2, ground). I don,t know if he is pulling my leg, but
I was told in a note that something is wrong with my electrical, and
they had measured 70 volts between the box and the ground. My
electric bill is not outrageous but I can only guess it is costing
money and maybe some safety issues to. Is this possible or its a joke?

"NN" schreef in bericht
ups.com...
I live in a old house but I get the three power lines coming into
breaker box (110x2, ground). I don,t know if he is pulling my leg, but
I was told in a note that something is wrong with my electrical, and
they had measured 70 volts between the box and the ground. My
electric bill is not outrageous but I can only guess it is costing
money and maybe some safety issues to. Is this possible or its a joke?


Buy a (cheap $10) meter and check for yourself. Between both 110 lines
you'd find 220Vac. Between each hot and neutral 110Vac. The voltage between
neutral and ground may vary. If the neutral is grounded in the breaker box
it should be very low. One maybe two volts. Otherwise the voltage can easily
rise to some tens of volts caused by unbalance in the load.

petrus bitbyter

petrus bitbyter wrote:
"NN" schreef in bericht
ups.com...
I live in a old house but I get the three power lines coming into
breaker box (110x2, ground). I don,t know if he is pulling my leg, but
I was told in a note that something is wrong with my electrical, and
they had measured 70 volts between the box and the ground. My
electric bill is not outrageous but I can only guess it is costing
money and maybe some safety issues to. Is this possible or its a joke?


Buy a (cheap $10) meter and check for yourself. Between both 110 lines
you'd find 220Vac. Between each hot and neutral 110Vac. The voltage between
neutral and ground may vary. If the neutral is grounded in the breaker box
it should be very low. One maybe two volts. Otherwise the voltage can easily
rise to some tens of volts caused by unbalance in the load.

petrus bitbyter
With my meter set at ac, I put one probe to the third (ground wire that
comes in and the other probe to the grounding wire going to the ground
poll? ( With safety in mind ) Would that situation of 70volts cost
money in wasted electricity?

"NN" wrote in message
ups.com...
I live in a old house but I get the three power lines coming into
breaker box (110x2, ground). I don,t know if he is pulling my leg, but
I was told in a note that something is wrong with my electrical, and
they had measured 70 volts between the box and the ground. My
electric bill is not outrageous but I can only guess it is costing
money and maybe some safety issues to. Is this possible or its a joke?


Many older homes (my parent's old house was built in 1920s) - only had 60
amp services. IF the service drop from the street is old AND you have an
multiple electrical panels due to add-on

I would recommend talking to a licensed electrician, your local electrical
utility OR you county/city building inspectors office (they can refer you to
qualified individuals).
Today 100 or 125 amp electrical service is the MINIMUM and many new houses
are installing 200 amp service. Why?

Current (and future) electrical demands (HVAC, kitchens, lighting, computer,
home offices) are much greater than 50 years ago. Get come professional
advice.

gb

NN ha escrito:

petrus bitbyter wrote:

With my meter set at ac, I put one probe to the third (ground wire that
comes in and the other probe to the grounding wire going to the ground
poll? ( With safety in mind ) Would that situation of 70volts cost
money in wasted electricity?

The point here is not wasted electricity. The point here is safety. If
between the metal breaker box and the ground wire exist a voltage
difference of 70V there is a safety problem. It could be that the earth
wire is disconnected or broken somewhere (while the breaker box is
still properly grounded), or that there is an insulation defect inside
the metal breaker box energizing the box with respect to ground. In any
case, it´s a defect which must be corrected because it represents an
electric shock hazard.

As someone else said, that voltage does not represent wasted electricity; it
represents DANGER. If the ground wire at one of your outlets is 70 volts
above true ground, then when you grab onto the exterior case of an appliance
such as a washing machine, you may be grabbing onto something that is 70
volts above ground and can shock you.

It sounds like some kind of ground connection is missing. Time to have the
electrician in. This does not sound like a major repair, but it needs to be
done by someone who can take a good look around and make sure everything is
connected right.

NN wrote:
petrus bitbyter wrote:

"NN" schreef in bericht
roups.com...

I live in a old house but I get the three power lines coming into
breaker box (110x2, ground). I don,t know if he is pulling my leg, but
I was told in a note that something is wrong with my electrical, and
they had measured 70 volts between the box and the ground. My
electric bill is not outrageous but I can only guess it is costing
money and maybe some safety issues to. Is this possible or its a joke?


Buy a (cheap $10) meter and check for yourself. Between both 110 lines
you'd find 220Vac. Between each hot and neutral 110Vac. The voltage between
neutral and ground may vary. If the neutral is grounded in the breaker box
it should be very low. One maybe two volts. Otherwise the voltage can easily
rise to some tens of volts caused by unbalance in the load.

petrus bitbyter

With my meter set at ac, I put one probe to the third (ground wire that
comes in and the other probe to the grounding wire going to the ground
poll? ( With safety in mind ) Would that situation of 70volts cost
money in wasted electricity?

Probably not, but it could electrocute you and/or burn out your appliances.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

And adding a more conceptual point:

Voltage is not the flow of electricity. It is the force that makes
electricity flow (like pressure in a tank of compressed air). You don't
know whether it's actually flowing or not unless you measure current (amps),
which requires interrupting whatever it's flowing through.

These mysterious 70 volts are probably not making any current flow at all --
until somebody grabs the wrong things and provides a path.


"mc" wrote in message
.. .
As someone else said, that voltage does not represent wasted electricity;
it represents DANGER. If the ground wire at one of your outlets is 70
volts above true ground, then when you grab onto the exterior case of an
appliance such as a washing machine, you may be grabbing onto something
that is 70 volts above ground and can shock you.

It sounds like some kind of ground connection is missing. Time to have
the electrician in. This does not sound like a major repair, but it needs
to be done by someone who can take a good look around and make sure
everything is connected right.

NN wrote:
petrus bitbyter wrote:

"NN" schreef in bericht
roups.com...

I live in a old house but I get the three power lines coming into
breaker box (110x2, ground). I don,t know if he is pulling my leg, but
I was told in a note that something is wrong with my electrical, and
they had measured 70 volts between the box and the ground. My
electric bill is not outrageous but I can only guess it is costing
money and maybe some safety issues to. Is this possible or its a joke?


Buy a (cheap $10) meter and check for yourself. Between both 110 lines
you'd find 220Vac. Between each hot and neutral 110Vac. The voltage between
neutral and ground may vary. If the neutral is grounded in the breaker box
it should be very low. One maybe two volts. Otherwise the voltage can easily
rise to some tens of volts caused by unbalance in the load.

petrus bitbyter

With my meter set at ac, I put one probe to the third (ground wire that
comes in and the other probe to the grounding wire going to the ground
poll? ( With safety in mind ) Would that situation of 70volts cost
money in wasted electricity?



No but it will burn out electric motors and cause dim lights and erratic
or non operation of electronic devices. Also if it's low on one side it
may well be high on the other. None of it will affect your electric bill
but it will cause damage.

mc wrote:

And adding a more conceptual point:

Voltage is not the flow of electricity. It is the force that makes
electricity flow (like pressure in a tank of compressed air). You don't
know whether it's actually flowing or not unless you measure current (amps),
which requires interrupting whatever it's flowing through.

There are ways to measure current that do not require interrupting the
circuit, and they are used quite commonly.


These mysterious 70 volts are probably not making any current flow at all --
until somebody grabs the wrong things and provides a path.


"mc" wrote in message
.. .

As someone else said, that voltage does not represent wasted electricity;
it represents DANGER. If the ground wire at one of your outlets is 70
volts above true ground, then when you grab onto the exterior case of an
appliance such as a washing machine, you may be grabbing onto something
that is 70 volts above ground and can shock you.

It sounds like some kind of ground connection is missing. Time to have
the electrician in. This does not sound like a major repair, but it needs
to be done by someone who can take a good look around and make sure
everything is connected right.








--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

"CJT" wrote in message
...
mc wrote:

And adding a more conceptual point:

Voltage is not the flow of electricity. It is the force that makes
electricity flow (like pressure in a tank of compressed air). You don't
know whether it's actually flowing or not unless you measure current
(amps), which requires interrupting whatever it's flowing through.

There are ways to measure current that do not require interrupting the
circuit, and they are used quite commonly.

Well... magnetically, but you then have to be able to wrap around one
conductor by itself, which may be as awkward as breaking the circuit.

"NN" schreef in bericht
oups.com...

petrus bitbyter wrote:
"NN" schreef in bericht
ups.com...
I live in a old house but I get the three power lines coming into
breaker box (110x2, ground). I don,t know if he is pulling my leg, but
I was told in a note that something is wrong with my electrical, and
they had measured 70 volts between the box and the ground. My
electric bill is not outrageous but I can only guess it is costing
money and maybe some safety issues to. Is this possible or its a joke?


Buy a (cheap $10) meter and check for yourself. Between both 110 lines
you'd find 220Vac. Between each hot and neutral 110Vac. The voltage
between
neutral and ground may vary. If the neutral is grounded in the breaker
box
it should be very low. One maybe two volts. Otherwise the voltage can
easily
rise to some tens of volts caused by unbalance in the load.

petrus bitbyter
With my meter set at ac, I put one probe to the third (ground wire that
comes in and the other probe to the grounding wire going to the ground
poll? ( With safety in mind ) Would that situation of 70volts cost
money in wasted electricity?


Highly unlikely. It *may* at most cost your life as it *may* indicate a
severe safety problem.

FAIK these 110x2 is made by a centre tapped 220V transformer winding. The
tap is considered neutral and grounded either near the transformer or in
your breaker box. If the neutral is grounded near your breaker box *and* you
find 70V between ground and neutral, most likely ground or neutral has been
interrupted, bringing in a life threatening situation. If the neutral is
grounded near the transformer, some tens of volts are not uncommon and can
be caused by unbalance of the load like I wrote before. Even then 70V is
high, too high to be normal I suppose. You you find that high a voltage
you'd better look for a local expert.

petrus bitbyter

mc wrote:

"CJT" wrote in message
...

mc wrote:


And adding a more conceptual point:

Voltage is not the flow of electricity. It is the force that makes
electricity flow (like pressure in a tank of compressed air). You don't
know whether it's actually flowing or not unless you measure current
(amps), which requires interrupting whatever it's flowing through.

There are ways to measure current that do not require interrupting the
circuit, and they are used quite commonly.


Well... magnetically, but you then have to be able to wrap around one
conductor by itself, which may be as awkward as breaking the circuit.


There are also means of doing it without wrapping a detection wire
around the conductor, although they are much less commonly used for
measurement (due to cost).

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

"petrus bitbyter" wrote in message
ll.nl...

"NN" schreef in bericht
oups.com...

petrus bitbyter wrote:
"NN" schreef in bericht
ups.com...
I live in a old house but I get the three power lines coming into
breaker box (110x2, ground). I don,t know if he is pulling my leg,
but
I was told in a note that something is wrong with my electrical, and
they had measured 70 volts between the box and the ground. My
electric bill is not outrageous but I can only guess it is costing
money and maybe some safety issues to. Is this possible or its a
joke?


Buy a (cheap $10) meter and check for yourself. Between both 110 lines
you'd find 220Vac. Between each hot and neutral 110Vac. The voltage
between
neutral and ground may vary. If the neutral is grounded in the breaker
box
it should be very low. One maybe two volts. Otherwise the voltage can
easily
rise to some tens of volts caused by unbalance in the load.

petrus bitbyter
With my meter set at ac, I put one probe to the third (ground wire that
comes in and the other probe to the grounding wire going to the ground
poll? ( With safety in mind ) Would that situation of 70volts cost
money in wasted electricity?

My Guess:
The original poster is measuring from the neutral to something ungrounded
and getting an erroneous reading from the meter.

David

mc wrote:
And adding a more conceptual point:

Voltage is not the flow of electricity. It is the force that makes
electricity flow (like pressure in a tank of compressed air). You don't
know whether it's actually flowing or not unless you measure current (amps),
which requires interrupting whatever it's flowing through.

These mysterious 70 volts are probably not making any current flow at all --
until somebody grabs the wrong things and provides a path.


"mc" wrote in message
.. .
As someone else said, that voltage does not represent wasted electricity;
it represents DANGER. If the ground wire at one of your outlets is 70
volts above true ground, then when you grab onto the exterior case of an
appliance such as a washing machine, you may be grabbing onto something
that is 70 volts above ground and can shock you.

It sounds like some kind of ground connection is missing. Time to have
the electrician in. This does not sound like a major repair, but it needs
to be done by someone who can take a good look around and make sure
everything is connected right.



I have the power shut off until it gets fixed, (danger is gone) I see
that voltage does not equal to money payed out. Looking at the
electric bill, I see the charges are based on current (load) per hour.
The formula for the watts (kilowatts) and amps and volts is rather
simple to use.

"NN" wrote in message
oups.com...

I have the power shut off until it gets fixed, (danger is gone) I see
that voltage does not equal to money payed out. Looking at the
electric bill, I see the charges are based on current (load) per hour.
The formula for the watts (kilowatts) and amps and volts is rather
simple to use.

Nope. You are charged for kilowatts used; not volts, amps or volt amps.

"Homer J Simpson" schreef in bericht
news:3M9Gg.14307$tP4.7449@clgrps12...

"NN" wrote in message
oups.com...

I have the power shut off until it gets fixed, (danger is gone) I see
that voltage does not equal to money payed out. Looking at the
electric bill, I see the charges are based on current (load) per hour.
The formula for the watts (kilowatts) and amps and volts is rather
simple to use.

Nope. You are charged for kilowatts used; not volts, amps or volt amps.



Nope once more. You're paying for the energy used, usually measured in kWh
(kilo Watt hour). When the load is resistive the energy is calculated:

voltage x current x time [kWh]

When voltage and/or current are continuously changing due to the load,
rectifiers for instance, the calculation becomes more complicated though the
principle remains the same.

petrus bitbyter

petrus bitbyter wrote:
"Homer J Simpson" schreef in bericht
news:3M9Gg.14307$tP4.7449@clgrps12...

"NN" wrote in message
oups.com...

I have the power shut off until it gets fixed, (danger is gone) I see
that voltage does not equal to money payed out. Looking at the
electric bill, I see the charges are based on current (load) per hour.
The formula for the watts (kilowatts) and amps and volts is rather
simple to use.

Nope. You are charged for kilowatts used; not volts, amps or volt amps.



Nope once more. You're paying for the energy used, usually measured in kWh
(kilo Watt hour). When the load is resistive the energy is calculated:

voltage x current x time [kWh]

When voltage and/or current are continuously changing due to the load,
rectifiers for instance, the calculation becomes more complicated though the
principle remains the same.

petrus bitbyter

Let see if I got the idea of cost. I have a 1500 watt space heater,
if I run it for one hour and my electric company charges ten cents a
kilowatt, Then the heater would cost fifteen cents running for the
full hour.

"petrus bitbyter" wrote in message
ll.nl...

Nope. You are charged for kilowatts used; not volts, amps or volt amps.

Nope once more. You're paying for the energy used, usually measured in kWh
(kilo Watt hour). When the load is resistive the energy is calculated:

Which is what I said. If you draw reactive power you don't pay but the
utility co. gets ****ed off and wants you to do PF correction.

"NN" wrote in message
ups.com...

Let see if I got the idea of cost. I have a 1500 watt space heater,
if I run it for one hour and my electric company charges ten cents a
kilowatt, Then the heater would cost fifteen cents running for the
full hour.

Yes. If it's on a thermostat, less if it cycles.

g. beat wrote:
"NN" wrote in message
ups.com...
I live in a old house but I get the three power lines coming into
breaker box (110x2, ground). I don,t know if he is pulling my leg, but
I was told in a note that something is wrong with my electrical, and
they had measured 70 volts between the box and the ground. My
electric bill is not outrageous but I can only guess it is costing
money and maybe some safety issues to. Is this possible or its a joke?


Many older homes (my parent's old house was built in 1920s) - only had 60
amp services. IF the service drop from the street is old AND you have an
multiple electrical panels due to add-on

I would recommend talking to a licensed electrician, your local electrical
utility OR you county/city building inspectors office (they can refer you to
qualified individuals).
Today 100 or 125 amp electrical service is the MINIMUM and many new houses
are installing 200 amp service. Why?

Current (and future) electrical demands (HVAC, kitchens, lighting, computer,
home offices) are much greater than 50 years ago. Get come professional
advice.

gb
We closed up the house and shut off power, to many other problems
besides this one.
Professional advice is just what you gave me. They will say upgrade to
200 amp with all new electrical. ( house is prewar judging from the
real 2 x 4 used )

"NN" schreef in bericht
ups.com...

petrus bitbyter wrote:
"Homer J Simpson" schreef in bericht
news:3M9Gg.14307$tP4.7449@clgrps12...

"NN" wrote in message
oups.com...

I have the power shut off until it gets fixed, (danger is gone) I see
that voltage does not equal to money payed out. Looking at the
electric bill, I see the charges are based on current (load) per hour.
The formula for the watts (kilowatts) and amps and volts is rather
simple to use.

Nope. You are charged for kilowatts used; not volts, amps or volt amps.



Nope once more. You're paying for the energy used, usually measured in
kWh
(kilo Watt hour). When the load is resistive the energy is calculated:

voltage x current x time [kWh]

When voltage and/or current are continuously changing due to the load,
rectifiers for instance, the calculation becomes more complicated though
the
principle remains the same.

petrus bitbyter

Let see if I got the idea of cost. I have a 1500 watt space heater,
if I run it for one hour and my electric company charges ten cents a
kilowatt, Then the heater would cost fifteen cents running for the
full hour.


Almost. The company will charge you 10ct/kWh. In words: Ten cents a kilo
watt hour. That's 15cts for using 1.5kW for a full hour or using a 150W PC
for ten hours.

petrus bitbyter

I think your problem in the third wire ground and earth ground are not
connected together in the breaker box. Both grounds should be connected
together at this point. At least that is code in Indiana.

Jim


"NN" wrote in message
oups.com...

g. beat wrote:
"NN" wrote in message
ups.com...
I live in a old house but I get the three power lines coming into
breaker box (110x2, ground). I don,t know if he is pulling my leg, but
I was told in a note that something is wrong with my electrical, and
they had measured 70 volts between the box and the ground. My
electric bill is not outrageous but I can only guess it is costing
money and maybe some safety issues to. Is this possible or its a joke?


Many older homes (my parent's old house was built in 1920s) - only had 60
amp services. IF the service drop from the street is old AND you have an
multiple electrical panels due to add-on

I would recommend talking to a licensed electrician, your local
electrical
utility OR you county/city building inspectors office (they can refer you
to
qualified individuals).
Today 100 or 125 amp electrical service is the MINIMUM and many new
houses
are installing 200 amp service. Why?

Current (and future) electrical demands (HVAC, kitchens, lighting,
computer,
home offices) are much greater than 50 years ago. Get come professional
advice.

gb
We closed up the house and shut off power, to many other problems
besides this one.
Professional advice is just what you gave me. They will say upgrade to
200 amp with all new electrical. ( house is prewar judging from the
real 2 x 4 used )