I need to get a new TV and I don't have (or want) cable. So I'd like to
know which brands/models of 27" to 32" conventional TV's work well with
an indoor antenna. My old TV (with a mechanical tuner) got great
reception. A Sony we tried failed miserably (it generated so much self
interference that most stations were unwatchable. And it affected
nearby TV's also.)

Thanks.

-Al Schapira

So many physical and electrical variables exist that to answer that question
we would need to be exactly where you are at to evaluate your particular
situation.
In a large city there will be a lot of defused and reflected signals so a
indoor antenna may pickup a lot of ghosts, as will a good outside one
also.
Out in the suburbs, depending on distance from the transmitters, indoor
antennas may just give you a very snowy picture with poor audio. Your
question is therefore too vague for a competent answer.
"Al Schapira" wrote in message
...
I need to get a new TV and I don't have (or want) cable. So I'd like to
know which brands/models of 27" to 32" conventional TV's work well with an
indoor antenna. My old TV (with a mechanical tuner) got great reception.
A Sony we tried failed miserably (it generated so much self interference
that most stations were unwatchable. And it affected nearby TV's also.)

Thanks.

-Al Schapira

A few years back i bought a very cheap Daewoo 19" which was to be used with only the rabbit ears. When i took the
back off, i was surprised to see a rf gain control,i cranked that wide open and it made a noticeable difference.

"Al Schapira" wrote in message ...
I need to get a new TV and I don't have (or want) cable. So I'd like to know which brands/models of 27" to 32"
conventional TV's work well with an indoor antenna. My old TV (with a mechanical tuner) got great reception. A
Sony we tried failed miserably (it generated so much self interference that most stations were unwatchable. And
it affected nearby TV's also.)

Thanks.

-Al Schapira

Consumer Reports used to find that Toshibas had better than average
tuners, but in their review in the current Dec. 2005 issue they rated
them below average in this respect, and the best-rated tuners were with
Sony and Panasonic CRT and plasma TVs (also a Pioneer plasma).

Maybe you need to buy a Panasonic VCR to use its tuner.

-------------------------------------------------------------

George W. Bush: Strengthening Iran and Al Quada.

That would be because the current Toshiba sets that would likely be used
with rabbit ears are not made by Toshiba at all.

I would not assume that the tuner in a a Panasonic VCR is anything like what
is found in their televisions. Even among the TVs the tuners vary greatly.
Nearly all VCR tuners are inferior in quality.

Since there are no reliable ratings on the matter, best to simply hook up an
antenna and compare performance.

Leonard

"larry moe 'n curly" wrote in message
ups.com...
Consumer Reports used to find that Toshibas had better than average
tuners, but in their review in the current Dec. 2005 issue they rated
them below average in this respect, and the best-rated tuners were with
Sony and Panasonic CRT and plasma TVs (also a Pioneer plasma).

Maybe you need to buy a Panasonic VCR to use its tuner.

-------------------------------------------------------------

George W. Bush: Strengthening Iran and Al Quada.

Robert Mozeleski wrote:

A few years back i bought a very cheap Daewoo 19" which was to be used with only the rabbit ears. When i took the
back off, i was surprised to see a rf gain control,i cranked that wide open and it made a noticeable difference.

"Al Schapira" wrote in message ...

I need to get a new TV and I don't have (or want) cable. So I'd like to know which brands/models of 27" to 32"
conventional TV's work well with an indoor antenna. My old TV (with a mechanical tuner) got great reception. A
Sony we tried failed miserably (it generated so much self interference that most stations were unwatchable. And
it affected nearby TV's also.)

Thanks.

-Al Schapira



FWIW, I've got an Emerson that gets spectacular reception. Maybe
there's something about the cheapies?

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Art wrote:

So many physical and electrical variables exist that to answer that question
we would need to be exactly where you are at to evaluate your particular
situation.

.... at which point you would probably be incapable of doing so.

In a large city there will be a lot of defused and reflected signals so a
indoor antenna may pickup a lot of ghosts, as will a good outside one
also.
Out in the suburbs, depending on distance from the transmitters, indoor
antennas may just give you a very snowy picture with poor audio. Your
question is therefore too vague for a competent answer.

"Al Schapira" wrote in message
...

I need to get a new TV and I don't have (or want) cable. So I'd like to
know which brands/models of 27" to 32" conventional TV's work well with an
indoor antenna. My old TV (with a mechanical tuner) got great reception.
A Sony we tried failed miserably (it generated so much self interference
that most stations were unwatchable. And it affected nearby TV's also.)

Thanks.

-Al Schapira





--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

I could be wrong but it seems that modern TV receivers are rather
insensitive as the manufacturers seem to think that all of us have cable.
You might have to invest in a good, low-noise pre-amp. As to sensitivity
specs, I have no idea how you can get them.

He could give GPS coordinates : )
"CJT" wrote in message
...
Art wrote:

So many physical and electrical variables exist that to answer that
question we would need to be exactly where you are at to evaluate your
particular situation.

... at which point you would probably be incapable of doing so.

In a large city there will be a lot of defused and reflected signals so a
indoor antenna may pickup a lot of ghosts, as will a good outside one
also.
Out in the suburbs, depending on distance from the transmitters, indoor
antennas may just give you a very snowy picture with poor audio. Your
question is therefore too vague for a competent answer.

"Al Schapira" wrote in message
...

I need to get a new TV and I don't have (or want) cable. So I'd like to
know which brands/models of 27" to 32" conventional TV's work well with
an indoor antenna. My old TV (with a mechanical tuner) got great
reception. A Sony we tried failed miserably (it generated so much self
interference that most stations were unwatchable. And it affected nearby
TV's also.)

Thanks.

-Al Schapira





--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Leonard Caillouet wrote:
That would be because the current Toshiba sets that would likely be used
with rabbit ears are not made by Toshiba at all.

I've heard that the smaller ones, probably 27-32" or under, are now
made by nobody's favorite, Orion.

I would not assume that the tuner in a a Panasonic VCR is anything like what
is found in their televisions. Even among the TVs the tuners vary greatly.
Nearly all VCR tuners are inferior in quality.

A friend of mine found that a Panasonic VCR tuner is definitely better
than those in several brands of $99 20" TVs. OTOH my old JVC 4600U
S-VHS VCR picks up ch. 4, located 120 miles away, better than my
Panasonic VCR does.




---------------------------------------------------------------------

George W. Bush: Strengthening Iran and Al Quada.

"Al Schapira" wrote in message
...
I need to get a new TV and I don't have (or want) cable. So I'd like to
know which brands/models of 27" to 32" conventional TV's work well with an
indoor antenna. My old TV (with a mechanical tuner) got great reception.
A Sony we tried failed miserably (it generated so much self interference
that most stations were unwatchable. And it affected nearby TV's also.)

Thanks.

-Al Schapira


Might want to stay away from Panasonic. I will never purchase another video
product with a Panasonic tuner in it, at least not if I ever might have an
occasion to use an antenna with it. They have performed miserably at the
low end of the VHF band. One local station is on channel 2 (NBC) -- it
snaps, crackles and pops _constantly_ and loudly on the Panasonic tuners,
even during the clearest of days. There is no hope of recording any NBC
programs using an antenna with the Panasonic VCR's.

Dunno bout Phillips' latest VCR's or TV's, but the Phillips tuner in my ATI
All-in-Wonder 9800 Pro card sucks. It has a hard time locking onto channel
2, and when it manages to, there's tons of video noise. Thanks a lot, ATI!

I haven't gotten the above results with any other brand of VCR or TV, even
the cheapies. FWIW, I live about 30 miles from the towers and I have a good
fringe antenna with RG-6 runs.
My Sony WEGA and VCR tuners have the best reception of any I've used here.
Hardly ever a hint of audio noise on channel 2 and the pix is great. From
my experience, Sony is a safe bet for best pix reproduction and best tuners.
The Sony audio portables (Walkman) also have the best reception of any brand
I've tried. This tells me that Sony pays more attention to tuner design
than most brands. Sorry you got such a raw deal with your Sony, dunno what
happened there, but they've worked splendidly for me.

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 23:45:30 GMT, Al Schapira
wrote:

I need to get a new TV and I don't have (or want) cable. So I'd like to
know which brands/models of 27" to 32" conventional TV's work well with
an indoor antenna. My old TV (with a mechanical tuner) got great
reception. A Sony we tried failed miserably (it generated so much self
interference that most stations were unwatchable. And it affected
nearby TV's also.)

Thanks.

-Al Schapira

In my experience a lot of new TV's don't do well with an inside
antenna.

Tom

Channel 2 NBC? Are you in Central Florida?
I have all kinds of weird problems with channel 2.. doesn't matter what tv
vcr or tuner I use. There is always sort of a double picture. I've
experienced at friends houses also. Some times it seperates so bad you can't
stand to watch it. It is very odd because the audio will be perfect but the
video is awful..


"Ray L. Volts" wrote in message
news:U1Bjf.2144$w74.1913@trnddc03...

"Al Schapira" wrote in message
...
I need to get a new TV and I don't have (or want) cable. So I'd like to
know which brands/models of 27" to 32" conventional TV's work well with an
indoor antenna. My old TV (with a mechanical tuner) got great reception.
A Sony we tried failed miserably (it generated so much self interference
that most stations were unwatchable. And it affected nearby TV's also.)

Thanks.

-Al Schapira


Might want to stay away from Panasonic. I will never purchase another
video product with a Panasonic tuner in it, at least not if I ever might
have an occasion to use an antenna with it. They have performed miserably
at the low end of the VHF band. One local station is on channel 2
(NBC) -- it snaps, crackles and pops _constantly_ and loudly on the
Panasonic tuners, even during the clearest of days. There is no hope of
recording any NBC programs using an antenna with the Panasonic VCR's.

Dunno bout Phillips' latest VCR's or TV's, but the Phillips tuner in my
ATI All-in-Wonder 9800 Pro card sucks. It has a hard time locking onto
channel 2, and when it manages to, there's tons of video noise. Thanks a
lot, ATI!

I haven't gotten the above results with any other brand of VCR or TV, even
the cheapies. FWIW, I live about 30 miles from the towers and I have a
good fringe antenna with RG-6 runs.
My Sony WEGA and VCR tuners have the best reception of any I've used here.
Hardly ever a hint of audio noise on channel 2 and the pix is great. From
my experience, Sony is a safe bet for best pix reproduction and best
tuners. The Sony audio portables (Walkman) also have the best reception of
any brand I've tried. This tells me that Sony pays more attention to
tuner design than most brands. Sorry you got such a raw deal with your
Sony, dunno what happened there, but they've worked splendidly for me.

"Michael Kennedy" wrote in message
...
Channel 2 NBC? Are you in Central Florida?

Houston (KPRC).

I have all kinds of weird problems with channel 2.. doesn't matter what tv
vcr or tuner I use. There is always sort of a double picture. I've
experienced at friends houses also. Some times it seperates so bad you
can't stand to watch it. It is very odd because the audio will be perfect
but the video is awful..

Sounds like ghosting. You might try a variable attenuator; hook it up to an
A-B switch box so you won't have to readjust it everytime you change from
channel 2. Yes, every device you put in the line, including switch boxes,
causes signal loss (exception being in-line amps) and most introduce noise.
But if your ghosting problem is due to too great a signal strength, perhaps
the device-induced losses won't affect the other channels.

Alternatively, maybe there are nearby objects (e.g., tall, metal warehouse
or shed) which could be delivering a reflected signal, resulting in the
ghosting.

Ray L. Volts wrote:
"Michael Kennedy" wrote in message
...

Channel 2 NBC? Are you in Central Florida?


Houston (KPRC).


I have all kinds of weird problems with channel 2.. doesn't matter what tv
vcr or tuner I use. There is always sort of a double picture. I've
experienced at friends houses also. Some times it seperates so bad you
can't stand to watch it. It is very odd because the audio will be perfect
but the video is awful..


Sounds like ghosting. You might try a variable attenuator; hook it up to an
A-B switch box so you won't have to readjust it everytime you change from
channel 2. Yes, every device you put in the line, including switch boxes,
causes signal loss (exception being in-line amps) and most introduce noise.
But if your ghosting problem is due to too great a signal strength, perhaps
the device-induced losses won't affect the other channels.

Alternatively, maybe there are nearby objects (e.g., tall, metal warehouse
or shed) which could be delivering a reflected signal, resulting in the
ghosting.


In case the OP is not familiar with ghosting (or Google, he could look
it up); it's a function of a reflected TV signal arriving at the
antenna, some number of milliseconds after the direct signal. IOW, the
exact signal arriving at the antenna, slightly delayed in time from the
direct signal. The 'ghost' is that signal dispayed on your TV screen.
You can actually measure the exact interval of reflected to direct
signal by the percentage of screen real estate between the two, although
that's only of academic interest. What's important is that the display
scans the reflection slightly later than the direct one, causing it to
appear at some distance to the right. In more severe cases, the sound
is also affected, especially on various scenes.

What he needs is some way to either eliminate the reflected (or direct?)
signal...or to make one or the other so much stronger that it is no
longer a problem. A highly directional antenna is usually the only way
to do so (aim the antenna so that the ghost disapears), but in many
applications is still not do-able.

I had a bad ghost on local channels last week which turned out to be
caused by an unterminated output on my distribution system.

jak

jakdedert wrote:

snip
In case the OP is not familiar with ghosting (or Google, he could look
it up); it's a function of a reflected TV signal arriving at the
antenna, some number of milliseconds after the direct signal.

snip

Nit: a millisecond is a long time. You probably meant microsecond.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Tom MacIntyre wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 23:45:30 GMT, Al Schapira
wrote:


I need to get a new TV and I don't have (or want) cable. So I'd like to
know which brands/models of 27" to 32" conventional TV's work well with
an indoor antenna. My old TV (with a mechanical tuner) got great
reception. A Sony we tried failed miserably (it generated so much self
interference that most stations were unwatchable. And it affected
nearby TV's also.)

Thanks.

-Al Schapira


In my experience a lot of new TV's don't do well with an inside
antenna.

Tom

That's why I asked the original question.

-Al

jakdedert wrote:
Ray L. Volts wrote:

"Michael Kennedy" wrote in message
...

Channel 2 NBC? Are you in Central Florida?



Houston (KPRC).


I have all kinds of weird problems with channel 2.. doesn't matter
what tv vcr or tuner I use. There is always sort of a double picture.
I've experienced at friends houses also. Some times it seperates so
bad you can't stand to watch it. It is very odd because the audio
will be perfect but the video is awful..



Sounds like ghosting. You might try a variable attenuator; hook it up
to an A-B switch box so you won't have to readjust it everytime you
change from channel 2. Yes, every device you put in the line,
including switch boxes, causes signal loss (exception being in-line
amps) and most introduce noise. But if your ghosting problem is due to
too great a signal strength, perhaps the device-induced losses won't
affect the other channels.

Alternatively, maybe there are nearby objects (e.g., tall, metal
warehouse or shed) which could be delivering a reflected signal,
resulting in the ghosting.


In case the OP is not familiar with ghosting (or Google, he could look
it up); it's a function of a reflected TV signal arriving at the
antenna, some number of milliseconds after the direct signal. IOW, the
exact signal arriving at the antenna, slightly delayed in time from the
direct signal. The 'ghost' is that signal dispayed on your TV screen.
You can actually measure the exact interval of reflected to direct
signal by the percentage of screen real estate between the two, although
that's only of academic interest. What's important is that the display
scans the reflection slightly later than the direct one, causing it to
appear at some distance to the right. In more severe cases, the sound
is also affected, especially on various scenes.

What he needs is some way to either eliminate the reflected (or direct?)
signal...or to make one or the other so much stronger that it is no
longer a problem. A highly directional antenna is usually the only way
to do so (aim the antenna so that the ghost disapears), but in many
applications is still not do-able.

I had a bad ghost on local channels last week which turned out to be
caused by an unterminated output on my distribution system.

jak

The problem with the Sony was not ghosting. The Sony was generating so
much self interference (probably from its switching supply) that with an
indoor antenna (not cable) every station showed swirly lines AND NEARBY
TV's SHOWED THE SAME INTERFERENCE WHENEVER THE SONY WAS ON!

-Al

I was a video engineer for many years. 5 years ago I set up a very
fussy client with a highly directional Yagi on a rotor in her attic.
Ran RG-6 inside her wall and the picture absolutely was the best I've
ever seen outside of of the line monitors at the station. Blew my cable
away completely. We're near Chicago and (also weirdly) get a lot of
ghosting on 2 and 7. She had a 36" Sony.
All of course before HDTV. Actually I have another client with HDTV
that she runs off a rabbit ears! What a wastel! I'm still talking to
her.
Richard

Michael Kennedy wrote:
Channel 2 NBC? Are you in Central Florida?
I have all kinds of weird problems with channel 2.. doesn't matter what tv
vcr or tuner I use. There is always sort of a double picture. I've
experienced at friends houses also. Some times it seperates so bad you can't
stand to watch it. It is very odd because the audio will be perfect but the
video is awful..



Michael,

WESH Chan. 2 and WACX Chan. 55 broadcast from a different location
from, the other Orlando channels, in Orange City, due North of Orlando.

Chan. 2 is actually licensed to Daytona Beach, so that location puts a
good signal into both Daytona and Orlando. (It was the only channel
that came in clear with rabbit ears when I lived just north of
Daytona.)

Chan 6, 9, and most of the UHFs and FM stations broadcast from a
tower farm due East of Orlando, along Hwy. 50, halfway to the coast.

If you're in the Orlando area, you have to re-orient your antenna to
get chan. 2 without ghosts (then 6 & 9 will come in poorly). I have
a rotor on my rooftop antenna, but I've seen quite a few older homes
in the metro Orlando area with an "area special" antenna - separate
Chan. 2 Yagi pointed at Chan. 2, and a smaller antenna for 6, 9,
& UHF pointed at the main transmission site. I don't know if the area

specials are available any more. If you live farther out, the spacing
between the transmitter sites becomes inconsequential as far as
aiming your antenna, but you may be nearer or farther from one
site than the other.

All of the DTV channels that claim to be anywhere near central Florida
are/will be broadcasting from the site east of Orlando (several new
towers were added there about 2 years ago) so the multiple-
transmitter-location problems will go away when you upgrade to HDTV.

Mike WB2MEP

seems like the majority of the problems/complaints so far in this
thread are related to the vhf channels. I can't believe that these
days, there are still places broadcasting on it, given the greater
susceptibilty to interference and generally crappy performance. AFAIK,
in the UK, VHF for tv was dropped back in the 1950s! Since few places
here in Europe now use VHF bands, most of those aforementioned
complaints hardly come up round here.

In the long term, I'd try and pressure the relevant authorities to
move to UHF or ideally terrestrial digital (dv3/ 'Freeview').
Remember, if they sense there's consumer demand, they're more likely to
start making the effort to upgrade their broadcasting systems.
-B.

Analog tv transmission is soon to be a moot point here in the US.
Even with the delays for the end of analog terrestrial transmission, it
will happen within the next few years.

If the OP is having this much trouble with an indoor antenna, odds are
pretty high that DTV will not be available with the indoor setup.

"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
news
I could be wrong but it seems that modern TV receivers are rather
insensitive as the manufacturers seem to think that all of us have cable.
You might have to invest in a good, low-noise pre-amp. As to sensitivity
specs, I have no idea how you can get them.

Oh, I forgot to mention that I am using a Motorola Signal Booster Broadband
Drop Amp with good results. I bought it at Circuit City.

"b" wrote in message
oups.com...
seems like the majority of the problems/complaints so far in this
thread are related to the vhf channels. I can't believe that these
days, there are still places broadcasting on it, given the greater
susceptibilty to interference and generally crappy performance.

VHF requires far less power to cover a given area; changing a VHF TV station
to UHF serously spikes the power bills -- I don't think you ever find a VHF
station that would voluntarily move to UHF!