Anyone who has this collection(Episodes 4-6 + Bonus DVD) know there is
a "THX" link in the options menu. What I didn't know is that it WAS a
link; and I was all set to go out and spend an arm and a leg on "Video
Essentials" or something.

So I opened it, and there were a series of screens for calibrating
Contrast, Color, Sharp, and so on. Then there are two screens, each
with concentric rectangles about an inch from the edge of the screen -
one for oldie "4:3" viewers like me, and one for HD 16:9ers. Each has
a circle in the center, about 8 inches in diameter on a 24" diagonal
NTSC screen.

When I displayed it on my Toshiba 24af43 flat and the Sony 24" flat
WEGA, I was shocked by how bowed out and overscanned both sets were. I
cracked the internal menus on each set, and brought those rectangles
back on to the screens(!) let alone properly sizing them to achieve a
height and width ratio of 4:3, or, 1.33333333~ This certainly involved
a lot of "trapezoidal" and "pincushion" adjustments to get it right,
but once I did, it looked as ruler straight as I could get it.

Now here is the weird part: The concentric squares, one one inch
inside the other, were perfectly square, as measured diagonally and
vertical/horiz. The circle was perfectly round - I have a protractor
to check these things. And, everything was equally distant on all
sides. BUT: when I switch to broadcast TV - IE the Weather Channel
forecasts or other channels that use a lot of frames and boxes, the
main box may be off center, and on other channels the boxes would
appear pincushioned(some cases in or out) or even parallelogram shaped!

So I performed the secret menus adjustments according to THOSE images,
and went back to THX - Now the THX images were once again out of whack,
even worse than before.

I now have reached a compromise between the Star Wars THX calibrations
and broadcast TV - slightly out of whack between the two.

And no - neither set has geometry adjustments PER input. After all,
these are "smaller" 24" sets, not 27" or larger that probably do have
internal geometry for each input. So anyone reading this - PLEASE don't
suggest checking for adjustments for each input.

Anybody have any clues? Is it something the cable or broadcast channels
are doing to the signal? Or are both DVD players or the THX test
patterns themselves to blame?

Thanks,

ChrisCoaster

[This followup was posted to sci.electronics.repair and a copy was sent
to the cited author.]

In article .com,
says...
So I opened it, and there were a series of screens for calibrating
Contrast, Color, Sharp, and so on. Then there are two screens, each
with concentric rectangles about an inch from the edge of the screen -
one for oldie "4:3" viewers like me, and one for HD 16:9ers. Each has
a circle in the center, about 8 inches in diameter on a 24" diagonal
NTSC screen.

When I displayed it on my Toshiba 24af43 flat and the Sony 24" flat
WEGA, I was shocked by how bowed out and overscanned both sets were. I
cracked the internal menus on each set, and brought those rectangles
back on to the screens(!) let alone properly sizing them to achieve a
height and width ratio of 4:3, or, 1.33333333~ This certainly involved
a lot of "trapezoidal" and "pincushion" adjustments to get it right,
but once I did, it looked as ruler straight as I could get it.

Now here is the weird part: The concentric squares, one one inch
inside the other, were perfectly square, as measured diagonally and
vertical/horiz. The circle was perfectly round - I have a protractor
to check these things. And, everything was equally distant on all
sides. BUT: when I switch to broadcast TV - IE the Weather Channel
forecasts or other channels that use a lot of frames and boxes, the
main box may be off center, and on other channels the boxes would
appear pincushioned(some cases in or out) or even parallelogram shaped!

So I performed the secret menus adjustments according to THOSE images,
and went back to THX - Now the THX images were once again out of whack,
even worse than before.

I now have reached a compromise between the Star Wars THX calibrations
and broadcast TV - slightly out of whack between the two.

And no - neither set has geometry adjustments PER input. After all,
these are "smaller" 24" sets, not 27" or larger that probably do have
internal geometry for each input. So anyone reading this - PLEASE don't
suggest checking for adjustments for each input.

Anybody have any clues? Is it something the cable or broadcast channels
are doing to the signal? Or are both DVD players or the THX test
patterns themselves to blame?

For the Sony, you can also check the forums at www.agoraqest.com.

I assume on the Sony you made your adjustments in the DEF group? Be
aware that there may also be a 16:9 group, which would be active if the
DVD is sending an anamorphic signal. This section includes some geometry
settings of it's own. If the TV cannot override the anamorphic mode, you
may need to temporarily set your DVD player to letterbox mode and make
adjustments under DEF, then set to widescreen/anamorphic/16:9 and and
make adjustments under 16:9.

I would still consider getting Avia and/or DVE (Digital Video
Essentials.) They contain nice instructions on how to perform settings,
MANY more patterns, filters for setting tint/color if you don't want to
mess with turning guns on and off, and extensive audio adjustments.

Also, especially with the 24" Sony, too much brightness could overload
the TV's power supply, causing bowing and other issues. Both DVD's have
needle pulse patterns designed to help find your maximum white level
(Contrast or Picture) that the TV can properly handle.

--
If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before replying!
All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the
law!!
http://home.att.net/~andyross

Andrew Rossmann wrote:
[This followup was posted to sci.electronics.repair and a copy was
sent
to the cited author.]

In article .com,
says...

(Coaster deletes his own jaw-flappin')

For the Sony, you can also check the forums at www.agoraqest.com.

I assume on the Sony you made your adjustments in the DEF group? Be

aware that there may also be a 16:9 group, which would be active if
the
DVD is sending an anamorphic signal. This section includes some
geometry
settings of it's own. If the TV cannot override the anamorphic mode,
you
may need to temporarily set your DVD player to letterbox mode and
make
adjustments under DEF, then set to widescreen/anamorphic/16:9 and and

make adjustments under 16:9.

I was DEFinitely in DEF - Dre! Actually, if there were settings in the
other modes, as you suggested, they use names or code#s with which I am
not familiar.

I would still consider getting Avia and/or DVE (Digital Video
Essentials.) They contain nice instructions on how to perform
settings,
MANY more patterns, filters for setting tint/color if you don't want
to
mess with turning guns on and off, and extensive audio adjustments.

I may have exaggerated the extent of the errors, Andrew. More
realistically, on the Toshiba, when I center the rectangles, any cable
channel that uses frames will appear more to the right. On the Sony,
the patterns are to the right, just not as much.
Additionally, I should point out the on the Lucas frame just before the
squares, there is a grid pattern - squares that are supposed to be
about 2" square across the screen. On the Toshiba, the squares on the
left side are almost THREE INCHES WIDE, although heights are consistant
with no bowing or trapezoid. That means when I center it acc. to THX
using the frame with the rectangles and the circle, TV channels will
all be too far right. Alas there is no adjustment for this, at least
in the Toshiba.


Also, especially with the 24" Sony, too much brightness could
overload
the TV's power supply, causing bowing and other issues. Both DVD's
have
needle pulse patterns designed to help find your maximum white level
(Contrast or Picture) that the TV can properly handle.

No worries there! Using a scale of 0-100, Picture is at 60 and
brightness 55. The factory had picture at 90, so I knew enough to take
care of that. Color = 40, Sharp = 55.

--
If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before
replying!
All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the

law!!
http://home.att.net/~andyross

Andrew Rossmann wrote:
[This followup was posted to sci.electronics.repair and a copy was
sent
to the cited author.]



For the Sony, you can also check the forums at www.agoraqest.com.

I assume on the Sony you made your adjustments in the DEF group? Be

aware that there may also be a 16:9 group, which would be active if
the
DVD is sending an anamorphic signal. This section includes some
geometry
settings of it's own. If the TV cannot override the anamorphic mode,
you
may need to temporarily set your DVD player to letterbox mode and
make
adjustments under DEF, then set to widescreen/anamorphic/16:9 and and

make adjustments under 16:9.

I would still consider getting Avia and/or DVE (Digital Video
Essentials.) They contain nice instructions on how to perform
settings,
MANY more patterns, filters for setting tint/color if you don't want
to
mess with turning guns on and off, and extensive audio adjustments.

Also, especially with the 24" Sony, too much brightness could
overload
the TV's power supply, causing bowing and other issues. Both DVD's
have
needle pulse patterns designed to help find your maximum white level
(Contrast or Picture) that the TV can properly handle.

--
If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before
replying!
All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the

law!!
http://home.att.net/~andyross
________________________

Regarding the Sony 24": I paid more attention to the grid pattern with
a dot in the middle of each square and also noticed that the dots two
inches or less from the sides and top/bottom of screen are severely
"flared", almost doubled.

Does this imply convergence issues, and how can I *attempt* to get
those dots as sharp as those in the center of the screen. No wonder
this thing is so blurry all the time!

Otherwise, the Toshiba 24" is great - the closest I guess one can get
to a "mini-cini".

Thanks for any suggs on the Sony convergence. I never thought I'd see
convergence issues on a good ole' CRT!

-CC

In article .com,
says...

Regarding the Sony 24": I paid more attention to the grid pattern with
a dot in the middle of each square and also noticed that the dots two
inches or less from the sides and top/bottom of screen are severely
"flared", almost doubled.

Does this imply convergence issues, and how can I *attempt* to get
those dots as sharp as those in the center of the screen. No wonder
this thing is so blurry all the time!

It's mostly an effect of a flat screen with minimal, or no, dynamic
focus adjustment. If the dots stay mostly white, it's just the focus
issue. If the colors start to separate, it's also a convergence issue.
Unfortunately, the FS/FV series have minimal adjustments, and those are
mainly on the CRT or yoke itself. You typically need to use special
magnets glued to the CRT.

Manufacturers have announced even thinner CRT screens, with even
bigger sweep angles. They are using higher powered CPU's to help with
the dynamic focus. One future resolution is to have the main scanning
VERTICAL instead of horizontal. A frame would have to be buffered then
translated. This would reduce the amount of CPU power needed to adjust
focus as you have a full 1/60th of a second for the large horizontal
sweep.

Thanks for any suggs on the Sony convergence. I never thought I'd see
convergence issues on a good ole' CRT!

Convergence has always been a problem with color CRT's. With 3
different beams to make the colors, you always run into problems. It may
not get as bad as a CRT projector can get, but it's always an issue.

--
If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before replying!
All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the
law!!
http://home.att.net/~andyross

Andrew Rossmann wrote:
In article .com,
says...

Regarding the Sony 24": I paid more attention to the grid pattern
with
a dot in the middle of each square and also noticed that the dots
two
inches or less from the sides and top/bottom of screen are severely
"flared", almost doubled.

Does this imply convergence issues, and how can I *attempt* to get
those dots as sharp as those in the center of the screen. No
wonder
this thing is so blurry all the time!

It's mostly an effect of a flat screen with minimal, or no, dynamic

focus adjustment. If the dots stay mostly white, it's just the focus
issue. If the colors start to separate, it's also a convergence
issue.
Unfortunately, the FS/FV series have minimal adjustments, and those
are
mainly on the CRT or yoke itself. You typically need to use special
magnets glued to the CRT.

Manufacturers have announced even thinner CRT screens, with even
bigger sweep angles. They are using higher powered CPU's to help with

the dynamic focus. One future resolution is to have the main scanning

VERTICAL instead of horizontal. A frame would have to be buffered
then
translated. This would reduce the amount of CPU power needed to
adjust
focus as you have a full 1/60th of a second for the large horizontal
sweep.

Thanks for any suggs on the Sony convergence. I never thought I'd
see
convergence issues on a good ole' CRT!

Convergence has always been a problem with color CRT's. With 3
different beams to make the colors, you always run into problems. It
may
not get as bad as a CRT projector can get, but it's always an issue.

--
If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before
replying!
All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the

law!!
http://home.att.net/~andyross
_____________________
Thanks. Very informative. The best I can do is make sure the focus is
dead on with dots in the center.

Can't wait for that SED flat panel to finally go to market! Focusing
and convergence(and burn-in assoc. with plasma) will be as gone as the
dodo bird!

-CC