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| Electronic Schematics (alt.binaries.schematics.electronic) A place to show and share your electronics schematic drawings. |
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#1
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields |
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#2
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
On Thu, 01 May 2014 15:12:23 -0500, John Fields
wrote: Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields I recall that one. It has some logic-race bugs. The AC line is sufficiently nasty (noise, distortion, phase and amplitude hits) that a precision zcd doesn't make a lot of sense. What makes sense is something that is safe, simple, and reliable. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com |
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#3
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:25:49 -0700, John Larkin
wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 15:12:23 -0500, John Fields wrote: Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields I recall that one. It has some logic-race bugs. May well be. Why don't you enumerate them? Be precise. This is supposed to be what this group is all about. The AC line is sufficiently nasty (noise, distortion, phase and amplitude hits) that a precision zcd doesn't make a lot of sense. What makes sense is something that is safe, simple, and reliable. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice  480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat || E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
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#4
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:25:49 -0700, John Larkin
wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 15:12:23 -0500, John Fields wrote: Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields I recall that one. It has some logic-race bugs. --- Really? Where might they be? --- The AC line is sufficiently nasty (noise, distortion, phase and amplitude hits) that a precision zcd doesn't make a lot of sense. What makes sense is something that is safe, simple, and reliable. --- Sometimes, applications require a little more finesse than just brute force. John Fields |
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#5
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
"John Fields" wrote in message
... Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields Done that and wondering: why is the sim taking so long? Three and a half hours CPU time for a single run from start till finish at essentially 100% CPU load. OK, that was less than 15 minutes real "wall clock" time (on a dual Opteron system with 16 cores total), but still, that sim takes more than plenty of time for what it does. I think, it dislikes LTSpice's "alternate" solver in some strange way (or I've got some tolerance or stepping parameters somewhere off-kilter). BTW, it looks fine with a sinewave, but take a look at the version below - with a really messy SNAFU mains like you'd sometimes get in places with a lot of thin wires and "solar" inverters. Of course the waveform of the "noise" is not realistic, it's just "something messy" made up in order to simulate effects of non-deterministic stuff happening when a lot of poorly filtered switchers "get their way", but still, some "interesting" reactions from the circuit (slightly modified .asc below, all else being the same): Version 4 SHEET 1 1172 916 WIRE -1072 -544 -1104 -544 WIRE -672 -544 -848 -544 WIRE -336 -544 -400 -544 WIRE -2432 -512 -2512 -512 WIRE -1728 -512 -2336 -512 WIRE -1600 -512 -1728 -512 WIRE -1440 -512 -1600 -512 WIRE -1360 -512 -1440 -512 WIRE -1328 -512 -1360 -512 WIRE -1104 -512 -1104 -544 WIRE -1072 -512 -1104 -512 WIRE -688 -512 -848 -512 WIRE -672 -512 -672 -544 WIRE -624 -512 -672 -512 WIRE -336 -512 -400 -512 WIRE -1104 -480 -1104 -512 WIRE -1072 -480 -1104 -480 WIRE -704 -480 -848 -480 WIRE -688 -480 -688 -512 WIRE -624 -480 -688 -480 WIRE -336 -480 -400 -480 WIRE -1728 -464 -1728 -512 WIRE -1440 -464 -1440 -512 WIRE -1360 -464 -1360 -512 WIRE -1104 -448 -1104 -480 WIRE -1072 -448 -1104 -448 WIRE -768 -448 -848 -448 WIRE -704 -448 -704 -480 WIRE -624 -448 -704 -448 WIRE -336 -448 -400 -448 WIRE -2192 -432 -2256 -432 WIRE -2064 -432 -2128 -432 WIRE -2016 -432 -2064 -432 WIRE -1904 -432 -1952 -432 WIRE -1840 -432 -1904 -432 WIRE -2512 -416 -2512 -512 WIRE -1104 -416 -1104 -448 WIRE -384 -384 -400 -384 WIRE -240 -368 -272 -368 WIRE -2064 -352 -2064 -432 WIRE -2256 -336 -2256 -432 WIRE -2224 -336 -2256 -336 WIRE -2112 -336 -2144 -336 WIRE -1840 -336 -1840 -432 WIRE -1536 -336 -1680 -336 WIRE -1520 -336 -1536 -336 WIRE -1440 -336 -1440 -384 WIRE -1440 -336 -1456 -336 WIRE -1360 -336 -1360 -400 WIRE -1360 -336 -1440 -336 WIRE -1296 -336 -1360 -336 WIRE -1168 -320 -1184 -320 WIRE -1072 -320 -1168 -320 WIRE -624 -320 -720 -320 WIRE -1680 -304 -1680 -336 WIRE -1296 -304 -1312 -304 WIRE -2256 -288 -2256 -336 WIRE -2112 -288 -2256 -288 WIRE -1072 -288 -1136 -288 WIRE -624 -288 -688 -288 WIRE -1312 -272 -1312 -304 WIRE -2064 -240 -2064 -272 WIRE -2336 -224 -2336 -512 WIRE -1600 -224 -1600 -512 WIRE -1728 -192 -1728 -384 WIRE -1632 -192 -1728 -192 WIRE -1536 -192 -1536 -336 WIRE -1536 -192 -1552 -192 WIRE -2432 -160 -2432 -512 WIRE -2064 -160 -2432 -160 WIRE -1840 -160 -1840 -256 WIRE -1680 -160 -1680 -224 WIRE -1680 -160 -1840 -160 WIRE -1632 -160 -1680 -160 WIRE -2064 -128 -2432 -128 WIRE -1536 -128 -1536 -192 WIRE -1520 -128 -1536 -128 WIRE -1440 -128 -1456 -128 WIRE -1360 -128 -1440 -128 WIRE -1296 -128 -1360 -128 WIRE -2256 -112 -2256 -288 WIRE -2192 -112 -2256 -112 WIRE -2064 -112 -2064 -128 WIRE -2064 -112 -2128 -112 WIRE -2000 -112 -2064 -112 WIRE -1904 -112 -1904 -432 WIRE -1904 -112 -1936 -112 WIRE -1616 -112 -1616 -128 WIRE -1600 -112 -1600 -128 WIRE -1600 -112 -1616 -112 WIRE -1584 -112 -1584 -128 WIRE -1584 -112 -1600 -112 WIRE -720 -112 -720 -320 WIRE -720 -112 -1184 -112 WIRE -624 -112 -624 -224 WIRE -384 -112 -384 -352 WIRE -384 -112 -624 -112 WIRE -1072 -80 -1072 -224 WIRE -832 -80 -1072 -80 WIRE -1440 -64 -1440 -128 WIRE -1360 -64 -1360 -128 WIRE -2064 -48 -2064 -112 WIRE -1840 -48 -1840 -160 WIRE -1728 -48 -1728 -192 WIRE -1072 0 -1104 0 WIRE -784 0 -848 0 WIRE -768 0 -768 -448 WIRE -624 0 -768 0 WIRE -336 0 -400 0 WIRE -1104 32 -1104 0 WIRE -1072 32 -1104 32 WIRE -800 32 -848 32 WIRE -784 32 -784 0 WIRE -624 32 -784 32 WIRE -336 32 -400 32 WIRE -2336 48 -2336 -144 WIRE -2304 48 -2336 48 WIRE -1104 64 -1104 32 WIRE -1072 64 -1104 64 WIRE -816 64 -848 64 WIRE -800 64 -800 32 WIRE -624 64 -800 64 WIRE -336 64 -400 64 WIRE -2512 80 -2512 -336 WIRE -2432 80 -2432 -128 WIRE -2432 80 -2512 80 WIRE -2336 80 -2336 48 WIRE -2256 80 -2256 -112 WIRE -2256 80 -2336 80 WIRE -2064 80 -2064 32 WIRE -2064 80 -2256 80 WIRE -1840 80 -1840 32 WIRE -1840 80 -2064 80 WIRE -1728 80 -1728 32 WIRE -1728 80 -1840 80 WIRE -1616 80 -1616 -112 WIRE -1616 80 -1728 80 WIRE -1440 80 -1440 16 WIRE -1440 80 -1616 80 WIRE -1360 80 -1360 0 WIRE -1360 80 -1440 80 WIRE -1296 80 -1360 80 WIRE -1136 80 -1136 -288 WIRE -1136 80 -1216 80 WIRE -1104 96 -1104 64 WIRE -1072 96 -1104 96 WIRE -816 96 -816 64 WIRE -624 96 -816 96 WIRE -336 96 -400 96 WIRE -1104 128 -1104 96 WIRE -832 160 -832 -80 WIRE -832 160 -848 160 WIRE -384 160 -384 -112 WIRE -384 160 -400 160 WIRE -2336 176 -2336 80 WIRE -1168 224 -1168 -320 WIRE -1072 224 -1168 224 WIRE -720 224 -720 -112 WIRE -624 224 -720 224 WIRE -1136 256 -1136 80 WIRE -1072 256 -1136 256 WIRE -688 256 -688 -288 WIRE -624 256 -688 256 WIRE -1536 320 -1536 -128 WIRE -1072 320 -1536 320 WIRE -1072 416 -1072 320 WIRE -624 416 -624 320 WIRE -624 416 -1072 416 WIRE -1136 448 -1136 256 WIRE -688 448 -688 256 WIRE -688 448 -1136 448 FLAG -1296 -96 Vcc FLAG -1312 -272 0 FLAG -1328 -512 Vcc FLAG -1072 -256 Vcc FLAG -1072 288 Vcc FLAG -1104 -416 0 FLAG -624 -256 0V FLAG -624 288 0V FLAG -624 -544 0V FLAG -1104 128 0 FLAG -1072 -352 0V FLAG -1072 192 0V FLAG -624 -352 0V FLAG -624 192 0V FLAG -2336 176 0 FLAG -2304 48 0V SYMBOL CD4001B -1248 -384 R0 SYMATTR InstName U8 SYMBOL CD4081B -1248 -176 R0 SYMATTR InstName U3 SYMBOL cap -1456 -352 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C1 SYMATTR Value 220p SYMBOL cap -1456 -144 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C2 SYMATTR Value 220p SYMBOL res -1456 -80 R0 SYMATTR InstName R6 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL res -1456 -480 R0 SYMATTR InstName R7 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL res -1744 -480 R0 SYMATTR InstName R9 SYMATTR Value 100K SYMBOL res -1744 -64 R0 SYMATTR InstName R10 SYMATTR Value 100k SYMBOL voltage -2064 -256 R0 WINDOW 3 24 96 Invisible 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value SINE(0 170 50) SYMATTR InstName V4 SYMBOL res -2080 -64 R0 SYMATTR InstName R11 SYMATTR Value 1g SYMBOL voltage -2336 -240 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName V5 SYMATTR Value 5 SYMBOL res -1856 -352 R0 SYMATTR InstName R12 SYMATTR Value 100K SYMBOL res -1856 -64 R0 SYMATTR InstName R13 SYMATTR Value 3030 SYMBOL diode -2016 -416 R270 WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName D7 SYMATTR Value MURS120 SYMBOL CD4516B -960 -128 M180 SYMATTR InstName U2 SYMBOL CD4516B -960 416 M180 SYMATTR InstName U6 SYMBOL CD4516B -512 -128 M180 SYMATTR InstName U7 SYMBOL CD4516B -512 416 M180 SYMATTR InstName U9 SYMBOL voltage -1200 80 M270 WINDOW 3 24 96 Invisible 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 0 44 7 VBottom 2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 5 0 10n 10n 10u 20u) SYMATTR InstName V6 SYMBOL CD4001B -336 -432 R0 WINDOW 0 43 84 Left 2 WINDOW 3 19 109 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName U12 SYMBOL diode -2192 -416 R270 WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName D8 SYMATTR Value MURS120 SYMBOL diode -2192 -96 R270 WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName D9 SYMATTR Value MURS120 SYMBOL diode -2000 -96 R270 WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName D10 SYMATTR Value MURS120 SYMBOL diode -1344 -400 R180 WINDOW 0 -43 38 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -74 -5 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName D1 SYMATTR Value 1N4148 SYMBOL diode -1344 0 R180 WINDOW 0 -43 38 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -74 -5 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName D2 SYMATTR Value 1N4148 SYMBOL Comparators\\LT1711 -1600 -176 R0 WINDOW 0 -97 37 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -122 70 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName U4 SYMBOL voltage -2128 -336 R90 WINDOW 0 -33 90 VRight 2 WINDOW 3 -242 110 Invisible 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName V2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 1 3m 1E-6 1E-6) SYMBOL sw -2064 -256 M180 WINDOW 0 32 15 Left 2 WINDOW 3 32 44 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName S1 SYMBOL res -1696 -320 R0 SYMATTR InstName R1 SYMATTR Value 1meg SYMBOL voltage -2512 -432 R0 WINDOW 3 24 96 Invisible 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value SFFM(0 10 3700 80 170) SYMATTR InstName V1 TEXT -2320 112 Left 2 !.tran 0 .05 0 1u uic TEXT -2320 144 Left 2 !.include cd4000.lib TEXT -368 -296 Left 2 ;OUT TO ISOLATOR TEXT -2024 112 Left 2 !.model SW SW(Ron=1 Roff=10Meg Vt=0.5Vh=0) |
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#6
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:25:49 -0700, John Larkin
wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 15:12:23 -0500, John Fields wrote: Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields I recall that one. It has some logic-race bugs. --- Faulty recall, I believe. Show me the bugs or, by your silence, admit there aren't any? --- The AC line is sufficiently nasty (noise, distortion, phase and amplitude hits) that a precision zcd doesn't make a lot of sense. What makes sense is something that is safe, simple, and reliable. --- And your designs are safe from line nasties, how? jfields |
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#7
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
On Sat, 03 May 2014 03:51:18 -0500, John Fields
wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:25:49 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 15:12:23 -0500, John Fields wrote: Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields I recall that one. It has some logic-race bugs. --- Faulty recall, I believe. Show me the bugs or, by your silence, admit there aren't any? --- The AC line is sufficiently nasty (noise, distortion, phase and amplitude hits) that a precision zcd doesn't make a lot of sense. What makes sense is something that is safe, simple, and reliable. --- And your designs are safe from line nasties, how? jfields John! John! Mind your manners! You're not supposed to announce that the emperor has no clothes :-} ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice 480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat || E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
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#8
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
John Fields wrote: Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. I just reinstalled LT Spice clean, and it gives me a blank graph in simulation. What problem is it supposed to solve? -- Reply in group, but if emailing, add a zero and remove the last word. |
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#9
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
On Sat, 3 May 2014 14:35:50 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote: John Fields wrote: Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. I just reinstalled LT Spice clean, and it gives me a blank graph in simulation. What problem is it supposed to solve? --- See: "Question on zero-crossing circuit" on sci.electronics.basic John Fields |
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#10
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
On Sat, 3 May 2014 01:36:42 +0200, "Dimitrij Klingbeil"
wrote: "John Fields" wrote in message .. . Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields Done that and wondering: why is the sim taking so long? Three and a half hours CPU time for a single run from start till finish at essentially 100% CPU load. OK, that was less than 15 minutes real "wall clock" time (on a dual Opteron system with 16 cores total), but still, that sim takes more than plenty of time for what it does. I think, it dislikes LTSpice's "alternate" solver in some strange way (or I've got some tolerance or stepping parameters somewhere off-kilter). BTW, it looks fine with a sinewave, but take a look at the version below - with a really messy SNAFU mains like you'd sometimes get in places with a lot of thin wires and "solar" inverters. Of course the waveform of the "noise" is not realistic, it's just "something messy" made up in order to simulate effects of non-deterministic stuff happening when a lot of poorly filtered switchers "get their way", but still, some "interesting" reactions from the circuit (slightly modified .asc below, all else being the same): --- YOW!!! Interesting indeed! With mains that dirty and that type of ZCD, I'd have to run the load _and_ the ZCD from a ferroresonant transformer. John Fields |
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#11
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:35:25 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:25:49 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 15:12:23 -0500, John Fields wrote: Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields I recall that one. It has some logic-race bugs. May well be. Why don't you enumerate them? Be precise. This is supposed to be what this group is all about. I did, back when he first posted it. Any non-trivial clocked logic with multiple async inputs will probably have bugs. Proving that it does not is a lot more work than just doing it right from the start. But you "don't do digital." -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation |
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#12
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
On Sat, 03 May 2014 03:51:18 -0500, John Fields
wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:25:49 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 15:12:23 -0500, John Fields wrote: Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields I recall that one. It has some logic-race bugs. --- Faulty recall, I believe. Show me the bugs or, by your silence, admit there aren't any? Did it. Look it up. -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation |
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#13
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
On Sun, 04 May 2014 15:31:10 -0700, John Larkin
wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:35:25 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:25:49 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 15:12:23 -0500, John Fields wrote: Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields I recall that one. It has some logic-race bugs. May well be. Why don't you enumerate them? Be precise. This is supposed to be what this group is all about. I did, back when he first posted it. Any non-trivial clocked logic with multiple async inputs will probably have bugs. Proving that it does not is a lot more work than just doing it right from the start. (1) You just said "buggy" and "race conditions", but no particulars; but that's you style, criticism with no real content. And when pressed for details you go silent... which is when you're at your best :-} But you "don't do digital." (2) But I do... remember, I re-did all of ON Semi's 74HCxxx stuff a while back. Synchronous logic is, indeed, convenient. Requires almost zero brain power to avoid race issues. Async... now that takes some skill... just today finished a fault catcher that's fully async. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice 480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat || E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
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#14
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Zero¸crossing detector (from seb)
On Sun, 04 May 2014 15:31:41 -0700, John Larkin
wrote: On Sat, 03 May 2014 03:51:18 -0500, John Fields wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:25:49 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 15:12:23 -0500, John Fields wrote: Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields I recall that one. It has some logic-race bugs. --- Faulty recall, I believe. Show me the bugs or, by your silence, admit there aren't any? Did it. Look it up. Bwahahahahaha! Message-ID? By your silence you're BS-ing yet again :-} ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice 480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat || E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
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#15
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Zero¸crossing detector (from seb)
On Sun, 04 May 2014 15:44:08 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote: On Sun, 04 May 2014 15:31:41 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Sat, 03 May 2014 03:51:18 -0500, John Fields wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:25:49 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 15:12:23 -0500, John Fields wrote: Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields I recall that one. It has some logic-race bugs. --- Faulty recall, I believe. Show me the bugs or, by your silence, admit there aren't any? Did it. Look it up. Bwahahahahaha! Message-ID? By your silence you're BS-ing yet again :-} ...Jim Thompson Damn, when you said "bye" I was hoping that you had killfiled me, yet again. -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation |
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#16
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
On Sun, 04 May 2014 15:31:10 -0700, John Larkin
wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:35:25 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:25:49 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 15:12:23 -0500, John Fields wrote: Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields I recall that one. It has some logic-race bugs. May well be. Why don't you enumerate them? Be precise. This is supposed to be what this group is all about. I did, back when he first posted it. --- That was a completely different circuit, so why don't you just go ahead and post the errors you think you see in this one? John Fields |
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#17
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
On Sun, 04 May 2014 15:31:41 -0700, John Larkin
wrote: On Sat, 03 May 2014 03:51:18 -0500, John Fields wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:25:49 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 15:12:23 -0500, John Fields wrote: Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields I recall that one. It has some logic-race bugs. --- Faulty recall, I believe. Show me the bugs or, by your silence, admit there aren't any? Did it. Look it up. --- Different circuit; what do you think you see wrong with this one? John Fields |
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#18
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
On Sun, 04 May 2014 18:36:25 -0500, John Fields
wrote: On Sun, 04 May 2014 15:31:10 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:35:25 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:25:49 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 15:12:23 -0500, John Fields wrote: Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields I recall that one. It has some logic-race bugs. May well be. Why don't you enumerate them? Be precise. This is supposed to be what this group is all about. I did, back when he first posted it. --- That was a completely different circuit, so why don't you just go ahead and post the errors you think you see in this one? John Fields Looks similar to the other one. It sure has the same hazards, multiple sloppy async inputs into a clocked state machine. But the complexity alone makes it absurd as a zcd. It needs a floating 5 volt power supply, too. By the time you do that, and the clock, you'll be up to 30 parts maybe. Still not isolated! I real life, that bridge rectifier, loaded by 100K, will not give clean zero indications. Try something clean and simple now and then. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...uits/ZCD_4.JPG But Jim loves yours, and that's all that matters. -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation |
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#19
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
On Sun, 04 May 2014 21:14:43 -0700, John Larkin
wrote: On Sun, 04 May 2014 18:36:25 -0500, John Fields wrote: On Sun, 04 May 2014 15:31:10 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:35:25 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:25:49 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 15:12:23 -0500, John Fields wrote: Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields I recall that one. It has some logic-race bugs. May well be. Why don't you enumerate them? Be precise. This is supposed to be what this group is all about. I did, back when he first posted it. --- That was a completely different circuit, so why don't you just go ahead and post the errors you think you see in this one? John Fields Looks similar to the other one. It sure has the same hazards, multiple sloppy async inputs into a clocked state machine. --- In this one there are no races being run, so your "critique" is bogus. --- But the complexity alone makes it absurd as a zcd. --- You might think so because your sow's ears can never become silk purses, but the price for precision is often complexity. For example, you can't use a sundial to check an atomic clock's accuracy. --- It needs a floating 5 volt power supply, too. --- You're grasping at straws since even a simple 5VDC out wall-wart connected to the mains through a transformer will satisfy that requirement. --- By the time you do that, and the clock, you'll be up to 30 parts maybe. Still not isolated! --- Doesn't need to be, since the output pulse can be. --- I real life, that bridge rectifier, loaded by 100K, will not give clean zero indications. --- When the AC cycle goes through zero volts, where's the output of the bridge going to be, then? --- Try something clean and simple now and then. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...uits/ZCD_4.JPG --- How close can you get to the 20kHz zero crossings the OP asked for with that? Or _any_ of your circuits? --- But Jim loves yours, and that's all that matters. --- Huh??? |
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#20
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Zero-crossing detector (from seb)
On Mon, 05 May 2014 06:02:50 -0500, John Fields
wrote: On Sun, 04 May 2014 21:14:43 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Sun, 04 May 2014 18:36:25 -0500, John Fields wrote: On Sun, 04 May 2014 15:31:10 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:35:25 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 14:25:49 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 01 May 2014 15:12:23 -0500, John Fields wrote: Download all the files into a single folder and then run ZCD7.asc. John Fields I recall that one. It has some logic-race bugs. May well be. Why don't you enumerate them? Be precise. This is supposed to be what this group is all about. I did, back when he first posted it. --- That was a completely different circuit, so why don't you just go ahead and post the errors you think you see in this one? John Fields Looks similar to the other one. It sure has the same hazards, multiple sloppy async inputs into a clocked state machine. --- In this one there are no races being run, so your "critique" is bogus. --- But the complexity alone makes it absurd as a zcd. --- You might think so because your sow's ears can never become silk purses, but the price for precision is often complexity. For example, you can't use a sundial to check an atomic clock's accuracy. --- It needs a floating 5 volt power supply, too. --- You're grasping at straws since even a simple 5VDC out wall-wart connected to the mains through a transformer will satisfy that requirement. --- By the time you do that, and the clock, you'll be up to 30 parts maybe. Still not isolated! --- Doesn't need to be, since the output pulse can be. --- I real life, that bridge rectifier, loaded by 100K, will not give clean zero indications. --- When the AC cycle goes through zero volts, where's the output of the bridge going to be, then? --- Try something clean and simple now and then. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...uits/ZCD_4.JPG --- How close can you get to the 20kHz zero crossings the OP asked for with that? Or _any_ of your circuits? --- But Jim loves yours, and that's all that matters. --- Huh??? --- BTW, if you've been following the thread you may have noticed that the OP elaborated on his requirements, which I think are satisfied by the circuit in the ZCD2-5v post. Comment? John Fields |
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#21
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Zero-crossing detector (from¸seb)
On Sun, 04 May 2014 21:14:43 -0700, John Larkin
wrote: On Sun, 04 May 2014 18:36:25 -0500, John Fields wrote: [snip] But Jim loves yours, and that's all that matters. I said no such thing. I simply asked, since this is _supposedly_ an electronics discussion group, for you to demonstrate where the "bugs" and race conditions are. By your silence, you are demonstrating that you can't. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice 480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat || E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
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