I bet I'm not the only one of us who has to make a deliberate effort to
make curved lines on a turning. If I don't watch it, my vessels will end
up with straight sides and sharp corners. People seem to seek level,
plumb and square in most things they make, but mother nature sure
doesn't. ex: a building vs a landscape. Well at least, buildings other
than Frank Gehry's and the deconstructionists' and trees other than
redwoods and tall pines.

LPS with its straight lines and right angles are what we tend to strive
for, but fair curves and angles other than 90deg. are what pleases most
of us. I conveniently forget (translation: don't know anything about)
Mondrian and lots of others. I do that a lot.

I hope you psychologists, artists and general woodturners will jump in
to agree or disagree and hopefully to explain wottenhel I'm trying to
say. I sure don't know, plus I've conveniently forgotten about Mondrian
and many others. I often do that.

It's written somewhere that our fixation on LPS is due to the
overwhelming effects of gravity in our lives. Probably began with our
being told to "sit up straight". The Golden Ratio is all fine and good,
but a fair curve in our turnings as in the fair sex wins over flat &
straight every time. Yep, we like rounded things and function doesn't
always have to follow form. If a tippy round bottom is ok for a rice
bowl, why not for a salad bowl, and a lathe doesn't always have to make
things round? Sorry you read this far?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

I can see good in both sides, although my vote is for the curves.

Strait can be easier to work with, and have a wierd facination all it's
own.

But you're right (in my opinion) - people seem to react to curves
better - it seem more 'natural'.

Arch wrote:


It's written somewhere that our fixation on LPS is due to the
overwhelming effects of gravity in our lives. Probably began with our
being told to "sit up straight". The Golden Ratio is all fine and good,
but a fair curve in our turnings as in the fair sex wins over flat &
straight every time. Yep, we like rounded things and function doesn't
always have to follow form. If a tippy round bottom is ok for a rice
bowl, why not for a salad bowl, and a lathe doesn't always have to make
things round? Sorry you read this far?

Arch,
it seems to me as though you are confusing practical aspects with
artistic appreciation. Unfortunately LPS is dictated to us by the
constraints of nature. If it ain't LPS is ain't very stable.
Aesthetically LPS is also boring and harsh as well as looking correct.
Introduce a nice curve or two and the effect is more restful,
comfortable and pleasing to the eye. If it needs to be stable or
structurally sound then somewhere the old LPS has to be incorporated
and that is where the good gets seperated from the bad and the ugly.
Look at it this way, a perfect sphere is really nice, and so is an egg,
but neither one will stay put on anything but a perfect flat level
surface. A cube on the other hand is static on anything but a severly
inclined surface, but it will create all sorts of problems when digging
for that last drop of salad stuck in the corners:-) Joining these two
functions together without conflict is where the art of turning has to
be mastered. Normally if it don't look right then it ain't!
Peter
Visit my site at:
http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/

"Arch" wrote in message
...
I bet I'm not the only one of us who has to make a deliberate effort to
make curved lines on a turning. If I don't watch it, my vessels will end
up with straight sides and sharp corners. People seem to seek level,
plumb and square in most things they make, but mother nature sure
doesn't. ex: a building vs a landscape. Well at least, buildings other
than Frank Gehry's and the deconstructionists' and trees other than
redwoods and tall pines.

I like to look at proper curves, but I'm straight....

On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:34:26 -0400, (Arch) wrote:

I bet I'm not the only one of us who has to make a deliberate effort to
make curved lines on a turning. If I don't watch it, my vessels will end
up with straight sides and sharp corners. People seem to seek level,
plumb and square in most things they make, but mother nature sure
doesn't. ex: a building vs a landscape. Well at least, buildings other
than Frank Gehry's and the deconstructionists' and trees other than
redwoods and tall pines.

LPS with its straight lines and right angles are what we tend to strive
for, but fair curves and angles other than 90deg. are what pleases most
of us. I conveniently forget (translation: don't know anything about)
Mondrian and lots of others. I do that a lot.

Oh, I don't know about that... I tend to prefer angles and straight
lines in most of my work. But then again, I enjoy Mondrian's work a
great deal as well (even painted a whole room as a big Mondrian once,
until the wife told me it was driving her nuts and asked me to repaint
it). Given the choice between a clean chamfer and a fancy ogee, I
tend towards the chamfer as an aestetic decision. I use angles that
are not always 90*, but they are always evenly divisible from 90*.
Curves tend to follow a portion of the Fibonnaci spiral, a simple
radius, or an even parabola. Why, you may ask? Because it looks
right, for the reasons that follow.

I hope you psychologists, artists and general woodturners will jump in
to agree or disagree and hopefully to explain wottenhel I'm trying to
say. I sure don't know, plus I've conveniently forgotten about Mondrian
and many others. I often do that.

I'm going to cut against the grain of some folks by giving my $.02 on
this, but that's what makes it interesting to discuss. I think the
preference for flat planes and clean angles is part of what makes us
human, and separates us from animals.

Nature is consistantly in flux, with curves and jagged edges being the
rule- the exception is a straight, clean edge. These curves and
splintered lines are the result of an unregulated chaos- something
which is of necessity abhorrant to the greater mass of men. As we
developed the ability to classify our surroundings, use tools, and
change our environment, straight line geometry became one of the most
important symbols of our species. Not because it is inherantly more
beautiful or majestic than nature, but because it symbolizes in
tangible form our dominance over the forces which we would otherwise
be at the mercy of. We are even compelled make those lines at the
expense of strength- a wooden beam split in harmony with it's natural
garin is stronger than one which has been sawn to a dimention, but we
still keep making 2x4s.

If you were stranded alone and unarmed in the middle of nature, with
no way of rejoining civilization in sight, the beauty of twisted
willow hanging over a winding stream would likely be sight
considerably less welcome than the sudden appearance of a cabin's
square, plumb and level walls. Because those walls are the trademark
of humanity- they promise shelter made by and for human beings.

Now, in our homes and in our art, curves are a natural and appealing
component. But they are clean curves, and generally conform to an
unstated mathematical form. While they do differ from the straight
lines, they still have that same mark of humanity on them. One rarely
sees a curving line that undulates randomly- the tendancy is towards
parabolic, circular or regular wave-form shapes, often combined with
flat planes and controlled angles. These shapes are pleasing [again]
because they symbolize at some deep level our dominance over nature.
While many of these shapes can be found in nature, it is the
application of an intent that makes them look *right*. Even when a
series of random curves is attempted by most people, there are
elements of regularity that can be ferreted out with little effort.

What a person chooses to make in their leisure time is a very clear
statement of who they are at a fundimental level. Perhaps the
tendancy to create things which are refections of human achievement is
simply a confession of a well-ordered and healthy mind. I've
certainly seen chaotic art, but it always left me [personally] with a
deep-seated sense of revulsion, and even a certain degree of fear.

Then again, some of that chaos could just be poor execution- can't
fault anyone for that.

It's written somewhere that our fixation on LPS is due to the
overwhelming effects of gravity in our lives. Probably began with our
being told to "sit up straight". The Golden Ratio is all fine and good,
but a fair curve in our turnings as in the fair sex wins over flat &
straight every time. Yep, we like rounded things and function doesn't
always have to follow form. If a tippy round bottom is ok for a rice
bowl, why not for a salad bowl, and a lathe doesn't always have to make
things round? Sorry you read this far?

Gravity? Perhaps, but it would seem that if gravity were the deciding
factor in our preferences, we would see many more parabolic shapes
than straight lines. Nothing I can think of represents the force of
gravity more clearly than an arch (no pun intended). In essence, it
is the straight plumb line bent to the will of that inexorable force
of nature.

As far as the curve winning over the straight line [profile] on the
lathe goes- I'd first point out that that is not always true, as you
have already acknowledged, and then go on to assert that the vast
majority of items created on a wood lathe are decorative in nature-
and while the straight line may be the badge of a human, the eye [and
mind] does need something to relieve itself from unrelenting angles
and edges.

The straight line is a symbol of our purposeful work and our long term
survival. It demonstrates a logical progression along the simplest
path from a beginning point to a goal. It can be combined in many
ways, but is always the same in isolation.

The attractive curve is a symbol of our relief. In the form of a
wheel, it is a relief from the weight of objects that would otherwise
require carrying. In the form of a bowl, it is relief and refreshment
after our labours. As a vase, it holds the flowers that relieve the
eye from the task at hand from time to time. Almost every curve
brings rest to mind- even a big metal gear is a symbol of work that is
being done or made easier by a machine rather than the brute force of
labouring men.

The curve brings us back to what we were to begin with, and promises a
rest- the straight line is what we have made of ourselves, and
requires effort. If most people prefer the curves when decorating,
it's not a surprise. Most folks do prefer the reward to the task that
gains it, and there is certainly nothing strange about that.

Well, I think I've rambled enough for one post here. There are all
sorts of things to go on about with a subject as broad as this, but
that's enough for one day. Undoubtedly, somebody will tell me I'm
wrong for some reason or another, but this has all just been my idle
speculation- and your opinions may vary!

"Arch" (clip) jump in to agree or disagree and hopefully to explain
wottenhel I'm trying to say. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Arch, I think you are on the threshold of a great invention here, and I
would like to collaborate with you, so we can BOTH be rich. With advancing
computer technology, it should be possible to develop an encyclopedia that
listens, organizes and clarifies any question, and then answers it. It
would be possible to get tightly organized answers to questions that that
are very vaguely presented, self contradictory or ambiguous.

Don't get me wrong, Arch--I'm not saying that is true of your
questions--merely that you present them as if they were, perhaps out of
modesty or self-deprecation.

Thanks Brent, Pete, George, Jesse, and Leo for your good insights and
especially for 'getting' my tortured drift.

Leo old friend, probably more perversity than modesty, or maybe just a
reaction to years of needing to presume authority and to know the
answers to unanswerable questions. I could try posting a tightly
organized answer and ask the group for the vague, contradictory and
ambiguous question, but I like to stir the pot with a slotted spoon and
a benign troll even in reverse, is still a troll.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

"Arch" wrote: (clip) I like to stir the pot with a slotted spoon (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
AHA! A meeting of the minds in the fog.

"Leo Lichtman" wrote:


"Arch" wrote: (clip) I like to stir the pot with a slotted spoon
(clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
AHA! A meeting of the minds in the fog.




If the two of you would help me find my flashlight ...

Hey Lobby, be careful what you ask for!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings