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Boiler - water from the flue



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 22nd 10, 06:02 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 60
Default Boiler - water from the flue

I posted about this a while ago, and the plumber came round and
diagnosed a faulty flue shroud. Water was coming out of the flue and
forming a pond underneath. The shroud has now been redesigned with a
'bubble' to force water/steam back down the flue. I still don't follow
how that volume of water could follow such a convoluted route (1m
vertical, 3m horizontal), but still.

Just been outside and seen this:

http://www.ifyoucan.org.uk/pages/Boiler.html

Obviously (?) the flue joint has failed, but this seems like a bonkers
amount of water to be ejected? I'll let the plumber know about this, but
any opinions welcome.

Rob

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  #2  
Old December 22nd 10, 06:41 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 2,683
Default Boiler - water from the flue

Rob expressed precisely :
Obviously (?) the flue joint has failed, but this seems like a bonkers amount
of water to be ejected? I'll let the plumber know about this, but any
opinions welcome.


My guess would be that all of that water is simply the condensate and
that ice has managed to form in the pipe which has simply pushed the O
ring seal out of the pipe - it is not a flue pipe, it is a condensate
drain pipe. Condensate drains are causing lots of problems due to icing
up in this cold spell.

The length of condensate pipe does seem to be excessive, and it looks
as if it goes up from the point where it emerges from the wall. In
which case the condensate water would need to fill the pipe to be able
to flow down - that cannot be right, is the photo upside down?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk


  #3  
Old December 22nd 10, 07:36 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 324
Default Boiler - water from the flue


"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message . uk...
Rob expressed precisely :
Obviously (?) the flue joint has failed, but this seems like a bonkers amount of water to be ejected? I'll let the plumber know
about this, but any opinions welcome.


My guess would be that all of that water is simply the condensate and that ice has managed to form in the pipe which has simply
pushed the O ring seal out of the pipe - it is not a flue pipe, it is a condensate drain pipe. Condensate drains are causing lots
of problems due to icing up in this cold spell.

The length of condensate pipe does seem to be excessive, and it looks as if it goes up from the point where it emerges from the
wall. In which case the condensate water would need to fill the pipe to be able to flow down - that cannot be right, is the photo
upside down?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk


I'd say yes, and no.
No in the sense that the picture shows exactly what the OP saw leaning out
of the window above the pipe with his camera.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%


  #4  
Old December 22nd 10, 09:30 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 173
Default Boiler - water from the flue

Rob wrote in news:4d123d29$0$5124$c3e8da3
:

http://www.ifyoucan.org.uk/pages/Boiler.html


The pipe in the picture is not the flue but a flue management kit attached
to the flue outlet.

At four metres long the water vapour that would be released to the air is
condensing in the pipe and running back and leaking from the faulty joint.

Your description leads me to suspect that the boiler manufactures kit has
not been used but made up from plastic waste/drain fittings.

A flue or flue parts should not be modified without consulting the
manufactures as this could lead to the boiler being in a dangerous
condition.


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---
  #5  
Old December 23rd 10, 03:16 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,993
Default Boiler - water from the flue

In article m,
Rob writes:
I posted about this a while ago, and the plumber came round and
diagnosed a faulty flue shroud. Water was coming out of the flue and
forming a pond underneath. The shroud has now been redesigned with a
'bubble' to force water/steam back down the flue. I still don't follow
how that volume of water could follow such a convoluted route (1m
vertical, 3m horizontal), but still.

Just been outside and seen this:

http://www.ifyoucan.org.uk/pages/Boiler.html

Obviously (?) the flue joint has failed, but this seems like a bonkers
amount of water to be ejected? I'll let the plumber know about this, but
any opinions welcome.


Such a volume is expected from a condensing boiler.

I had a leak in my Keston when I first fitted it. It turned out to
be a faulty flue spiggot and nothing to do with any of my joints,
but I repaired it nevertheless rather than waiting days for another
part. The condensate is corrosive, and to be sure there were no more
leaks, I left the hosepipe trickling into the end of the flue for
20 minutes or so, and checked the water wasn't going anywhere (other
than down the condensate drain). I don't know if that's a safe or
harmless test for your boiler, but it was effective with mine, and
if it had been included in the commissioning instructions, it would
have shown up the leak before it had a chance to corrode anything.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
  #6  
Old December 23rd 10, 08:37 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 60
Default Boiler - water from the flue

On 22/12/2010 18:41, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Rob expressed precisely :
Obviously (?) the flue joint has failed, but this seems like a bonkers
amount of water to be ejected? I'll let the plumber know about this,
but any opinions welcome.


My guess would be that all of that water is simply the condensate and
that ice has managed to form in the pipe which has simply pushed the O
ring seal out of the pipe - it is not a flue pipe, it is a condensate
drain pipe. Condensate drains are causing lots of problems due to icing
up in this cold spell.


Yes, I think the water is condensate. There was visible wetness at the
point shown by the arrow. I defer to your knowledge about what that pipe
is called, but it does make me wonder where waste gas goes.

The length of condensate pipe does seem to be excessive, and it looks as
if it goes up from the point where it emerges from the wall. In which
case the condensate water would need to fill the pipe to be able to flow
down - that cannot be right, is the photo upside down?


No, the first photo is me looking up at what I thought was a flue
(extension kit). The second photo is me looking down, at what I've
identified (incorrectly) as the condensate pipe. I wonder what that
diagonal pipe is then?! The picture at the bottom is that (what I
thought was a condensate) pipe continuing on its path and out to a drain.

Curious! I wonder why he installed all of those pipes! And where's the
flue!!

Thanks - the plumber's coming round later today - I'll report back.

Rob


  #7  
Old December 23rd 10, 08:53 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 2,694
Default Boiler - water from the flue

Rob wrote:

where's the flue!!


That'll be the one with the plume of water vapour streaming out of it
when the boiler is running ...
  #8  
Old December 23rd 10, 09:03 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 60
Default Boiler - water from the flue

On 23/12/2010 08:53, Andy Burns wrote:
Rob wrote:

where's the flue!!


That'll be the one with the plume of water vapour streaming out of it
when the boiler is running ...


Mmm - a few have identified that pipe as the condensate pipe. Plot
thickens, I'll ask the plumber when he comes round.

Rob
  #9  
Old December 23rd 10, 09:46 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 1,837
Default Boiler - water from the flue

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article m,
Rob writes:
I posted about this a while ago, and the plumber came round and
diagnosed a faulty flue shroud. Water was coming out of the flue and
forming a pond underneath. The shroud has now been redesigned with a
'bubble' to force water/steam back down the flue. I still don't follow
how that volume of water could follow such a convoluted route (1m
vertical, 3m horizontal), but still.

Just been outside and seen this:

http://www.ifyoucan.org.uk/pages/Boiler.html

Obviously (?) the flue joint has failed, but this seems like a bonkers
amount of water to be ejected? I'll let the plumber know about this, but
any opinions welcome.


Such a volume is expected from a condensing boiler.

I had a leak in my Keston when I first fitted it. It turned out to
be a faulty flue spiggot and nothing to do with any of my joints,
but I repaired it nevertheless rather than waiting days for another
part. The condensate is corrosive, and to be sure there were no more
leaks, I left the hosepipe trickling into the end of the flue for
20 minutes or so, and checked the water wasn't going anywhere (other
than down the condensate drain). I don't know if that's a safe or
harmless test for your boiler, but it was effective with mine, and
if it had been included in the commissioning instructions, it would
have shown up the leak before it had a chance to corrode anything.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]




Not a straight forward flue - but a "Plume Management" kit or bodge. (IMHO)


  #10  
Old December 23rd 10, 10:40 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 754
Default Boiler - water from the flue

On Dec 22, 6:02*pm, Rob wrote:
I posted about this a while ago, and the plumber came round and
diagnosed a faulty flue shroud. Water was coming out of the flue and
forming a pond underneath. The shroud has now been redesigned with a
'bubble' to force water/steam back down the flue. I still don't follow
how that volume of water could follow such a convoluted route (1m
vertical, 3m horizontal), but still.

Just been outside and seen this:

http://www.ifyoucan.org.uk/pages/Boiler.html

Obviously (?) the flue joint has failed, but this seems like a bonkers
amount of water to be ejected? I'll let the plumber know about this, but
any opinions welcome.

Rob


The flue through the wall in picture 1 appears to be an Ideal fan flue
version to which someone has added a section of pushfit waste pipe to
extend the flue gas discharge point to where the plume will not create
a mess. I have just googled for ideal plume management kit without
success so there is a distinct possibility that your installer has
invented his own version.

I would telephone Ideal Boilers in Hull for a definitive answer as to
the authenticity of the kit you have fitted to your boiler.

IF it is a manufacturers kit the pipe should run up hill all the way
from boiler to atmosphere and the joints should not leak.
If this pipe is not an ideal product then you need to be contacting
trading standards and gas-safe as only approved flue designs should be
used with any boiler.

The diagonal pipe is quite likely to be the condensate pipe but may
need lagging.

The rabid enthusiasm for installing condensing boilers seems to be
coming unstuck in our present winter conditions when the boilers heat
is most needed.
 




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